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Old 08-08-2009, 07:48 PM   #221
KinkyKeeper
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amneris View Post
KinkyKeeper, the problem is writing race on a birth certificate in the first place. How is adding more options to write in solving that basic problem?

I think the point of the in law analogy was not to say that all Blacks accept all other Blacks as their in-laws, but to say that there is little chance of having community and unity between people just because they claim they are multiracial. SOME may, but for some, the differences will be just as great as with others of "one race" regardless of whether or not society accepts people labelling as mixed-race.

I think there is no such thing as a "simple, proven definition" and even "has parents of different races" gets muddy very quickly.

I find many of the websites you listed to be either offensive or living in fantasy land or both.

Any racial definition can become complicated or muddy, Who is Black certainly has (as evidenced by this thread). I just meant to point out that Who is Black? is complicated, so Who is Multiracial? being complicated shouldn't be a reason why people should only call themselves Black.

And I suppose your view of the websites I posted being fantasy is a common thing we can't agree on. Again and again it's become evident the main argument is what you see as fantasy is mine (and others) reality. And I am sorry that any of the websites I posted offended you, all of them are only websites/forums/organizations that support a racially mixed identity and fight for the protection of rights of racially Mixed people.

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Originally Posted by Amneris View Post
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Originally Posted by Xyz View Post
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Originally Posted by love yourself first View Post
So, rather than upholding Malcolm X as some "gold standard" for how the mixed race, part or half black person should live their life and self-identify, I think he should be seen in this context of his own personal family history.
You do understand that if people like Malcolm X and Martin Luther King had centered their message more on, "Well, I'm not really black, but stop treating black people so bad, mkay" we would not have the rights we have now.

The strength of the Civil Rights movement and then the Black Power movement after it was that people became PROUD to be black - white society had succeeding in shaming black americans into thinking their was something wrong with blackness. When all kinds of people, white, black, yellow, and brown stood up to say, "I'm black and I'm proud" things changed because blackness was less stigmatized.

You can't have "partially" black people claim they would like to move away from being called black because it doesn't define them and still convince society that there is nothing wrong with being black. It just doesn't work that way. People will look at your actions and not the protestations of "But I love my black side too though" that is half-heartedly coming out of your mouth.

This does not negate anyone's right to say and label as they feel though. I feel very strongly that if the black community can't embrace all people of it's own race first, there's no way we will ever filter cohesively into societies' majority.
Exactly. Most of what has been said about the reasons for identifying as biracial or multiracial is about the personal and people wanting to show love for their family, etc. No one is saying not to do that. But when it comes to politics, why do your personal feelings about your roots prevent you from standing up as a Black person for Black people to honour that part of yourself that is Black?

IF I saw all these people so busy with their multiracial blogs and surveys and history months doing that, I might buy that it was just about self-identification.

Also, for those who say it's a "unique" experience to have parents of two races: couldn't you say that it would be a similar experience to have, say, a Black Muslim father born in Nigeria and a Black Catholic mother born in Guyana? Or a white Protestant mother born in Ireland and a white Jewish father born in Israel? You might as well go and build community with them, too.
I don't think MLK and Malcolm had to "center" their message around being mixed. That is something we have to disagree on.

Just like we will have to disagree that when people embrace a mixed identity they are moving further from being Black and can't also fight for Black rights and be just as effective. I see them saying they are not just Black as just reality, people knew Malcolm X was not full Black by uh..looking at him. I don't think if he had accepted that openly it would have been an affirmation that something is wrong with being Black. It was just who he was, and our racial backgrounds should not have assumptions attached. "If you specify or even acknowledge you are not unmixed Black, if you aren't, you are saying there is something wrong with being Black." I don't think it helped the Black cuase denying that Whiteness by only calling himself Black. I'm sure there are plenty of Multiracial activists today who also fight for Black rights and are effective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amneris View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xyz View Post
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Originally Posted by love yourself first View Post
So, rather than upholding Malcolm X as some "gold standard" for how the mixed race, part or half black person should live their life and self-identify, I think he should be seen in this context of his own personal family history.
AND... there would not be these opportunities for people to be in loving, mutual, non-coerced interracial marriages supported by their families if it were not for the efforts of civil rights activists and Black Power to de-criminalize and normalize interracial relationships and to take away the stigma of Blackness and integrate public places so more diverse people had the chance to meet. So if you are the product of an interracial relationship or are in one in the US, or other countries as well, you can thank historical figures who identified as BLACK for the privilege.
And I do thank them, I just don't think having to stay in the mindsets of racism that they themselves fought against is the best way to honor them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by love yourself first View Post
Yes, I recognize all of that because I know american history including the abolitionist and civil rights movements. I am also aware of the importance of sufragettes and people who fought against anti-asian property laws in CA, biased immigration policy, operation wet.back, internment of the japanese, etc.. The more that all of us acknowledge and know this history, the better. Howard Zinn is an excellent place to start.

But, we are no longer being snuck through the underground railroad or conducting major protest marches. Even black people with two african-american or two west-indian or two african parents are not doing this. So, why is the burden and expectation placed on the mixed, part or half black person to hail back to the olden days and old methods when the rest of the community is hardly doing the same. Is it because it doesn't seem fair that some of us have a non-black heritage and culture and mixed or blended/ambiguous appearance? Is it because of a fear or resentment that we will be or are treated better than other black people without the mixed parentage (not great great great grand relatives, but a biological parent who raised you and stamped you). If those are the concerns, then you (gy) need to get over it. The reality reflects a post-slavery, post-civil rights movement and more liberated era. We could all stand to adjust to this new era instead of imposing tactics and expectactions (selectively) that no longer fit our culture and society, not to mention the diversity within and among the diaspora of african-descended people.

Excellent post.
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