That circumference description is so misleading. I crochet, and they are crochet hooks, for one. Second, and more important, I have hooks that vary in size from 3mm to 16mm... That's a very large difference! So, which size hook are they talking about?

And, what is this Z pattern coil they keep referring to? My hair has a round coil pattern, no sharp angles. Yet has no definition. So, I'm not 4A, because I have no definition, and I'm not 4B, because I have no Z pattern. So, where does that leave me?
Originally Posted by CocoaCoily be totally honest, I think you're thinking about this way too much. And a hook is a kind of needle - I crochet too, they weren't wrong in calling it a needle. I also think they were referring to the length of the needle and not the hook on the end - I can picture it in my head but I don't think I can describe it well. 4a hair also does not have to be clearly defined - if you have a round coil pattern, you have a curl pattern. I haven't seen your hair but by your description I would call you 4a. Whether your hair looks defined and clumps together depends on texture/density.
Originally Posted by ellepixie

Just for the record, here's a pic of my hair. I did pick it out a little bit, but that did not change the texture, only made it a more even looking puff. Had I done nothing, it would look the same, just a little more compact and crooked. It is also pictured upthread, in twists.

And regarding the crochet hook, they were using it as a guide for circumference, which is a huge factor in hair-typing. You can't just say crochet hook, and expect everyone to know which size, you know? When you say pen-spring, or straw those are pretty standard. But crochet hook is not. I think this a key point, so, it's not really over-thinking.

An illustration...

Any old way, I have some pen-spring coil, no definition-even-with-product, kinky, motherland, super-shrinking, gravity-mocking, true afro hair.
Originally Posted by CocoaCoily

Okay, I see. Looking at your hair, I'd say it's 4b.

And as for the crochet needle/hook, I understand what you are saying, but when I think of them, I think of a "standard" size, like one would get in a beginner's kit. I know they are different sizes. I mean, pen springs can be different sizes too depending on the pen (especially since they make those fat pens now that I love), but it's pretty clear to me what they mean. Furthermore, the NC definitions are not the standard end all be all of the hair typing defintions. I have seen other sites and info on hair types and the definitions can vary (a bit too much if you ask me) - once again why hair typing is subjective and irrelevant.
BC'ed: 26 Dec 09

Grand Duchess Fierce Freckles, Mistress of the Mighty Snap and Doyenne of the Potent Products Pavane in the Order of the Curly Crusaders