Low elasticity gals...I need help!

I tried IAgirls PT to try to help with elasticity today but it made my hair very straw-like, like I knew it probably would. My hair hates protein but I tried it anyway. I did a DT afterwards and I was already overcondished when I did it but that didn't matter. Anyway, what do you ladies do on a daily basis to help with elasticity? I also need help with getting shine. My hair is always dull looking and always has been. Any suggestions for that also??

Thanks ladies!
V05 Lime cowash/SN Pomegranite RO FSG and LOOB
I still use Tresemme Fine Mist hairspray for the side swept bangs...I can't live without it!
Curl Genie: Medium-fine texture, normal porosity, low elasticity, medium density
Wow, tough question. Protein worked well for me.
Are you 100% sure you've got low elasticity? The best test I've seen is the "wet hair test." For example, when you're in the shower, sometimes loose hairs get stuck to your skin. I wad/roll them up between my palms and then if I tug gently, they stretch and bounce back. My dry hair doesn't behave quite like that! And if you give it a good yank, any hair will break.

What about a protein-containing conditioner rather than a hard-core PT for the more subtle approach?

As for shine, too much conditioner (cowashing) makes my hair quite dull. So does conditioner build-up. Chamomile tea, or using dried rosemary to make a tea (2 tsp to 1 tablespoon in 1 cup water) makes hair shiny. A combination of the two is very nice and you can wash with that, then condition.
http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/
This post makes my brain hurt. Nothing about it is in line with what I think I know. Fine hair (and med/fine) should like protein. Hair with low elasticity is low on moisture. Protein will magically fix soft, overmoisturized hair.
Evidently not true for you. I have weird hair that doesn't follow the rules, but I think yours has mine beat by a mile. Sorry I can't help.
The thing that helped me most with getting shine is IAgirl's PT (no help for you there). Some people say ACV rinse, FSG, oils, etc. Here are the 2 things I have bookmarked under shine. I don't thing there is much help there, but I'll add them anyway.
My hair is never shiny??
Want Shiny Hair? Avoid The Dulling Dozen!
http://pedaheh.blogspot.com/ (a blog to help new wavies, go to the how do I get started page)
2a (nc.com) 2bFi (Fia), very fine, thin, low/normal elasticity, porous, CG, doesn't get weighed down
Cowash: Tresemme naturals
Rinse out/leave in: Renpure Organics (red)
Curl enhancer: FSG
Gel: BRHG, Salon care aloe, Ecostyler Krystal (normal dews)
PT: ION effective care, IAgirl's gelatin PT
Low Poo: renpure (red), Ion swimmers
I think soy protein in a conditioner would be a good bet for you. Hair gets its elasticity from the hydrogen bonds which break down with wetting and re-form upon drying and live in the twists of the helix of the keratin protein (think curly ribbon, the hydrogen-oxygen bonds and also from hydrogen-nitrogen bonds which are longer-lasting.
You can "patch up" or even strengthen-up hair with protein, but its inherent elasticity comes from your diet (adequate protein and good hydration is a must) and your physical handling of your hair and from how old that hair is.
As your hair is growing, the newer hair may have more elasticity. This is a long term-commitment, after all!

On another note, humectants are necessary to pair with protein IMO. Protein helps slow water loss from hair and so do humectants. Every strong PT sold has powerful humectants (Aphogee 2-step has both Urea and Magnesium Sulfate, very, very water-attracting).
Your hair may respond well to humectants. These include propylene glycol, sorbitol (anything sugary - honey, glucose), glycerin, hyaluronic acid.
http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/
Wow, tough question. Protein worked well for me.
Are you 100% sure you've got low elasticity? The best test I've seen is the "wet hair test." For example, when you're in the shower, sometimes loose hairs get stuck to your skin. I wad/roll them up between my palms and then if I tug gently, they stretch and bounce back. My dry hair doesn't behave quite like that! And if you give it a good yank, any hair will break.

What about a protein-containing conditioner rather than a hard-core PT for the more subtle approach?

As for shine, too much conditioner (cowashing) makes my hair quite dull. So does conditioner build-up. Chamomile tea, or using dried rosemary to make a tea (2 tsp to 1 tablespoon in 1 cup water) makes hair shiny. A combination of the two is very nice and you can wash with that, then condition.
Originally Posted by IAgirl
According to the curl genie I have low elasticity. I have tried conditioners with protein and products with protein and my hair likes them for awhile but then hates them. I thought about the over conditioning but I now sulfate wash 1-2 times a week and feel I need moisture.....Maybe I'm wrong?? I will have to try the tea sometime.
V05 Lime cowash/SN Pomegranite RO FSG and LOOB
I still use Tresemme Fine Mist hairspray for the side swept bangs...I can't live without it!
Curl Genie: Medium-fine texture, normal porosity, low elasticity, medium density
This post makes my brain hurt. Nothing about it is in line with what I think I know. Fine hair (and med/fine) should like protein. Hair with low elasticity is low on moisture. Protein will magically fix soft, overmoisturized hair.
Evidently not true for you. I have weird hair that doesn't follow the rules, but I think yours has mine beat by a mile. Sorry I can't help.
The thing that helped me most with getting shine is IAgirl's PT (no help for you there). Some people say ACV rinse, FSG, oils, etc. Here are the 2 things I have bookmarked under shine. I don't thing there is much help there, but I'll add them anyway.
My hair is never shiny??
Want Shiny Hair? Avoid The Dulling Dozen!
Originally Posted by pedaheh
Trust me, my head hurts too. I get so excited when I try something new in hopes that it will help but just to be disappointed again. My hair hates me. I have tried the oil and the ACV and neither help. I have yet to try FSG. My hair has always been dull, I mean since I was a teen. I always thought it was the perming then and now the bleaching but I see people with treated hair that have shiny hair. I will read the info you book marked and see what I come up with.

Thanks a bunch!
V05 Lime cowash/SN Pomegranite RO FSG and LOOB
I still use Tresemme Fine Mist hairspray for the side swept bangs...I can't live without it!
Curl Genie: Medium-fine texture, normal porosity, low elasticity, medium density
I think soy protein in a conditioner would be a good bet for you. Hair gets its elasticity from the hydrogen bonds which break down with wetting and re-form upon drying and live in the twists of the helix of the keratin protein (think curly ribbon, the hydrogen-oxygen bonds and also from hydrogen-nitrogen bonds which are longer-lasting.
You can "patch up" or even strengthen-up hair with protein, but its inherent elasticity comes from your diet (adequate protein and good hydration is a must) and your physical handling of your hair and from how old that hair is.
As your hair is growing, the newer hair may have more elasticity. This is a long term-commitment, after all!

On another note, humectants are necessary to pair with protein IMO. Protein helps slow water loss from hair and so do humectants. Every strong PT sold has powerful humectants (Aphogee 2-step has both Urea and Magnesium Sulfate, very, very water-attracting).
Your hair may respond well to humectants. These include propylene glycol, sorbitol (anything sugary - honey, glucose), glycerin, hyaluronic acid.
Originally Posted by IAgirl
Thank you IAgirl. I have had some luck with glycol but I can't have too much. I have had 11 inches cut off of my hair over the past 12 months and that makes up for most of my hair. I would think it would be getting better. Maybe my hair is naturally low elasicity?? Here I have my routine pretty much down but if the elasticity was better my curl pattern would be awesome! If I'm overconditioned sometimes should I pass on the LI?? I only cowash 1-2 times a week and then use a RO 3 times a week and a LI all those times. Is that too much?? I only DT if I use a PT which is hardly ever.
V05 Lime cowash/SN Pomegranite RO FSG and LOOB
I still use Tresemme Fine Mist hairspray for the side swept bangs...I can't live without it!
Curl Genie: Medium-fine texture, normal porosity, low elasticity, medium density
Low elasticity needs moisture, so maybe you should think about DTs instead of protein? I'm no expert like the two ladies that replied to you, though, so maybe you should keep up with the protein and just use more moisture, too.

Hmm, shiny hair? I've never really had nice shiny, glossy hair, but it wasn't overly dull either. ACV rinses really, really help me (maybe you didn't use enough vinegar in yours? I use 1/4 cup.), but what helps me most is doing a final cold water rinse. It really seals my cuticles and prevents frizziness. It gives me super shine, and it's super easy! I started a thread about it a little while back -- here it is:

Final Cold Water Rinse, anyone?

HTH!
Type 2c/3a with lots of hair and a super sensitive scalp! Med/slightly coarse texture, low porosity and elasticity.

Favorite...
Low poo: Organix TTM, Essential Wholesale Free & Clean
RO/LI: TN, GFTN, YTC
Stylers: EcoStylers, GF Curl Shaping Gel, Aussie Aussome Volume Mousse & Instant Freeze Gel, GFPC, LALNC, La Bella Lots of Curls, Apricot Oil, KMFUM, AO B5DG
Extras: sugar scrubs, AVG washes, pre-poos with EVCO, oiling scalp before washes, plopping, gelatin PT.
Mod-CG since 12/1/10!
Low elasticity needs moisture, so maybe you should think about DTs instead of protein? I'm no expert like the two ladies that replied to you, though, so maybe you should keep up with the protein and just use more moisture, too.

Hmm, shiny hair? I've never really had nice shiny, glossy hair, but it wasn't overly dull either. ACV rinses really, really help me (maybe you didn't use enough vinegar in yours? I use 1/4 cup.), but what helps me most is doing a final cold water rinse. It really seals my cuticles and prevents frizziness. It gives me super shine, and it's super easy! I started a thread about it a little while back -- here it is:

Final Cold Water Rinse, anyone?

HTH!
Originally Posted by wavynwild16

Thank you for the reply Wavy. I hate to sound like I am rejecting all advice but I have tried the ACV with alot of it, a little of it , and even full strength. I'm more worried about the elasticity though. The thing that confuses me most is my curl genie results told me I don't need alot of DT's or PT's if any at all. My hair is pretty normal is what it said and low maintenance. I was kinda banking on that. I feel like I am over conditioned most of the time but yet my hair doesn't always feel soft. I think Peda said it all when she said my hair just doesn't follow the rules! I'm a little bit of a control freak so my hair does not match my personality, that's for sure!
V05 Lime cowash/SN Pomegranite RO FSG and LOOB
I still use Tresemme Fine Mist hairspray for the side swept bangs...I can't live without it!
Curl Genie: Medium-fine texture, normal porosity, low elasticity, medium density
I think a good look at your family should sort things out. For example, members of my family all have hair types similar to mine. That tells me that I'm not doing things wrong or I have not missed something. Mine is shiny because I rarely did a darn thing to it! When it was permed is was as dull as sandpaper. But also because it's low porosity for the most part. Smooth surface = shiny.

About elasticity etc., does your hair hold a curl if it is set when wet? Not-elastic hair won't, that curl will fall out after several hours. That's a great test in and of itself. Check with family members (and your memory of them) and see what runs in your family.

I know you did a LCLF analysis, but you didn't send ALL your hair, just some of them. We've all got a mix of hairs on our heads. And they don't always play by the rules.

If your hair holds a curl just after styling, but it loosens up during the day - hey, you're a wavy! Nature always wins.

Seriously, try the rosemary tea for your hair, it might just give you some nice shine. I have yet to figure out why it works.
http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/
I have no idea if any of these ideas will be at all helpful. I'm just brain storming. Feel free to reject it all. (or for your hair to reject it)
I'm wondering if a different form of moisture might help. A different form then conditioner.

For my hair FSG and AVG seem to add the same type of moisture. When I started using aloe, it seemed like it was a different type of moisture my hair was craving. My hair ended up hating aloe with a passion, but whatever.

Coconut oil before washing seems to add another kind of moisture. I cannot use oils in any other way (except in some conditioner formulas). No SOTC, no sealing, no mixed into conditioners (under most circumstances). Anyway, if you have some coconut oil around and haven't tried this yet... Try it on a day when you can do an oily updo in case of bad outcome.

Honey does something magic to my hair. I mix it into conditioner. This doesn't seem to have a high success rate, but it works for me.

I read on the 4's that some do glycerin/water sprays. This was a bust for me. No matter how much I diluted the glycerin, it was a no. (I know you said you already tried humectants, but I thought I'd type it anyway in case it sparks ideas.)

Does you whole head go wacky after PTs and DTs? I wonder if you might only need to do them from the ears down. Ya know, just on the "old" hair.

Was your hair the prom queen? It is just soooo pretty and yet so bee-achy.

I think by brain is all stormed out.
http://pedaheh.blogspot.com/ (a blog to help new wavies, go to the how do I get started page)
2a (nc.com) 2bFi (Fia), very fine, thin, low/normal elasticity, porous, CG, doesn't get weighed down
Cowash: Tresemme naturals
Rinse out/leave in: Renpure Organics (red)
Curl enhancer: FSG
Gel: BRHG, Salon care aloe, Ecostyler Krystal (normal dews)
PT: ION effective care, IAgirl's gelatin PT
Low Poo: renpure (red), Ion swimmers
I think a good look at your family should sort things out. For example, members of my family all have hair types similar to mine. That tells me that I'm not doing things wrong or I have not missed something. Mine is shiny because I rarely did a darn thing to it! When it was permed is was as dull as sandpaper. But also because it's low porosity for the most part. Smooth surface = shiny.

About elasticity etc., does your hair hold a curl if it is set when wet? Not-elastic hair won't, that curl will fall out after several hours. That's a great test in and of itself. Check with family members (and your memory of them) and see what runs in your family.

I know you did a LCLF analysis, but you didn't send ALL your hair, just some of them. We've all got a mix of hairs on our heads. And they don't always play by the rules.

If your hair holds a curl just after styling, but it loosens up during the day - hey, you're a wavy! Nature always wins.

Seriously, try the rosemary tea for your hair, it might just give you some nice shine. I have yet to figure out why it works.
Originally Posted by IAgirl

Half of my family has stick straight hair and the other half have similar hair to mine. Only the stick straight ones have shiny hair and their hair is oily.

My curls do tend to fall loose as the day goes except the ones underneath. My hair does stay curly when set wet but it looks stringy and frizzy while it's wet. If I don't encourage the curls with the diffuser and scrunching I just get very sad waves with some wurlies underneath and it looks dirty.

Rosemary tea at the grocery store?? I have never bought it.
V05 Lime cowash/SN Pomegranite RO FSG and LOOB
I still use Tresemme Fine Mist hairspray for the side swept bangs...I can't live without it!
Curl Genie: Medium-fine texture, normal porosity, low elasticity, medium density
I have no idea if any of these ideas will be at all helpful. I'm just brain storming. Feel free to reject it all. (or for your hair to reject it)
I'm wondering if a different form of moisture might help. A different form then conditioner.

For my hair FSG and AVG seem to add the same type of moisture. When I started using aloe, it seemed like it was a different type of moisture my hair was craving. My hair ended up hating aloe with a passion, but whatever.

Coconut oil before washing seems to add another kind of moisture. I cannot use oils in any other way (except in some conditioner formulas). No SOTC, no sealing, no mixed into conditioners (under most circumstances). Anyway, if you have some coconut oil around and haven't tried this yet... Try it on a day when you can do an oily updo in case of bad outcome.

Honey does something magic to my hair. I mix it into conditioner. This doesn't seem to have a high success rate, but it works for me.

I read on the 4's that some do glycerin/water sprays. This was a bust for me. No matter how much I diluted the glycerin, it was a no. (I know you said you already tried humectants, but I thought I'd type it anyway in case it sparks ideas.)

Does you whole head go wacky after PTs and DTs? I wonder if you might only need to do them from the ears down. Ya know, just on the "old" hair.

Was your hair the prom queen? It is just soooo pretty and yet so bee-achy.

I think by brain is all stormed out.
Originally Posted by pedaheh

My hair did not like honey. Have yet to find coconut oil at the store. I'm usually there with my kids and trying to find anything hurts my head and I give up. Should it be by the other oils?? Like olive oil? If so that's where I looked. Oh yeah, do the flaxseeds work if they are milled? That's all I can find.

Prom queen....YES...that is an awesome analagy! It is very bee-achy! Thank you for saying it's so pretty!

So low-elasticty needs moisture more than protein?? I thought it was vice versa.
V05 Lime cowash/SN Pomegranite RO FSG and LOOB
I still use Tresemme Fine Mist hairspray for the side swept bangs...I can't live without it!
Curl Genie: Medium-fine texture, normal porosity, low elasticity, medium density
Coconut oil should be with the cooking oils. It comes in a jar, and is solid (at room temp), and white. It may be in the health food section of the supermarket too.

IDK if low elastic hair needs more moisture or more protein. I just repeat what I read on the forum. IDK if I'm repeating credible info or not. I'm not sure if I've ever read that anywhere else. For me personally, protein helped.

Dull hair is kind of par for the course for curly hair. Since the hair bends, the cuticle doesn't lie flat like it does with straight hair. Many Asians have straight, coarse, non porous hair. The cuticle lies flat and really reflects the light. Blonde hair also tends to be less shiny. Dark colors reflect the light better.
My hair was dull my whole life before CG. Maybe CG + time will make it a bit shiner. Hope so.
http://pedaheh.blogspot.com/ (a blog to help new wavies, go to the how do I get started page)
2a (nc.com) 2bFi (Fia), very fine, thin, low/normal elasticity, porous, CG, doesn't get weighed down
Cowash: Tresemme naturals
Rinse out/leave in: Renpure Organics (red)
Curl enhancer: FSG
Gel: BRHG, Salon care aloe, Ecostyler Krystal (normal dews)
PT: ION effective care, IAgirl's gelatin PT
Low Poo: renpure (red), Ion swimmers
In a very timely manner...
I just read that bleached hair both binds up protein and releases protein a WHOLE LOT faster than unbleached hair. Sounds like you. PT'd like a ton of bricks.
Also read a study which found that coconut oil, used specifically as a pre-wash prevents loss of protein and moisture from hair better than other oils (as usual, Pedaheh is right).
At store with kids and need to find coconut oil -- track down an employee if you can and ask them to take you to it!

I was suggesting conditioner with soy protein because it transforms DH's dull, frizzy hair to nice and shiny and silky - but he also has coconut oil in his conditioner so... might work for ya. A full-on hit of PT just isn't for you!

You can make FSG with milled flaxseeds, but it's a real pain trying to strain it because they're ground. I have done it, though.

For rosemary tea you need to buy some leaf rosemary which is in with the other herbs. Chamomile tea does come in tea bags and I usually combine both (strain out the rosemary before you use it).
http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/
Thank you IAgirl and Peda. I will ask an employee at Kroger the next time I'm there. The ones at my Wal-Mart are worthless and never know where anything is! I will have to order the flaxseeds since I can only find milled and I don't want it to be harder than it has to be. IAgirl, any suggestions on cheap conditioners with the soy protein?? I know keratin and silk/amino acids are terrible on my hair. I had a feeling the bleach was a BIG part of it, that's why my underneath is so much better. If it wasn't for those darn grays I have to cover!!! So I guess finding a nice protein in a product would be better.

I really appreciate your responses...as always!
V05 Lime cowash/SN Pomegranite RO FSG and LOOB
I still use Tresemme Fine Mist hairspray for the side swept bangs...I can't live without it!
Curl Genie: Medium-fine texture, normal porosity, low elasticity, medium density
Mill Creek Bellance (although I cannot find an ingredient list online).

This one (Ion Brand) is not super-cheap, but looks like a winner for soy protein and CG, the polyquat and cetyl esters and other ingredients should be good for shine: Ion - Volume Solutions - Ion Volumizing Conditioner Don't let the title "volumizing" scare you away. I would totally try it if polyquats didn't make my skin itch.

This also has soy protein and I plan to try it sometime next week when I get around to getting some: Beyond the Zone - Beyond The Zone Thick Enuff Thickening Spray Gel

There may be drugstore brands with soy protein too (probably will be called "vegetable protein" - it's not going to be broccoli protein!) I think Mane N Tail has vegetable protein.
http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/
Ah, if vegetable protein is soy protein, the Ion Effective Care fits the bill. They have 2$ish trial packs.
http://pedaheh.blogspot.com/ (a blog to help new wavies, go to the how do I get started page)
2a (nc.com) 2bFi (Fia), very fine, thin, low/normal elasticity, porous, CG, doesn't get weighed down
Cowash: Tresemme naturals
Rinse out/leave in: Renpure Organics (red)
Curl enhancer: FSG
Gel: BRHG, Salon care aloe, Ecostyler Krystal (normal dews)
PT: ION effective care, IAgirl's gelatin PT
Low Poo: renpure (red), Ion swimmers
Ah, if vegetable protein is soy protein, the Ion Effective Care fits the bill. They have 2$ish trial packs.
Originally Posted by pedaheh
Hmm, I guess "Vegetable Protein" could be wheat protein, but I think (or at least I hope) there's a trend towards stating whether there is wheat is a product (or soy, for that matter) because of allergies and intolerances.

I wonder what broccoli protein would do for hair?
http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/

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