2 Something with Low Porosity - Need Help!

cleaverton · 06-13-2011, 08:58 AM

I actually posted over in the Low Porosity thread and thought maybe I should post over here, too. Instead of posting the whole thing over, I am just going to include a link to my original post in the hopes that some of you will help me out

Thanks so much!New and need help

IAgirl · 06-13-2011, 10:03 AM

Well, you're not alone about conditioner weighing your hair down.
I sometimes don't use any. Or I wash my hair with a mixture of aloe vera gel (the kind you could drink) and glycerin for moisture without coating agents.

Most conditioners have "quaternary cationic compounds" which is to say they have waxy-ish emulisifiers/emollients that make conditioner creamy and keep it from separating AND bond tightly to the hair fiber. If you've got fine hair and use this to wash with and then to condition too - you'e doomed. (A bit o' melodrama...)

Still, moisture is good for hair. Fatty alcohols aren't as tenacious (cetyl alcohol, cetraryl alcohol) on hair and light oils like grapeseed, apricot kernel don't soak in to add weight.
Protein helps hair hold moisture, panthenol is super for holding moisture.

Hair was built to break (thus it keeps growing), but it evolved under conditions without conditioner - just water for infrequent cleaning and natural oils from the scalp for preventing drying out and breakage.

So if detangling isn't a problem for you and the addition of conditioner doesn't help your curls have good shape (it does for some) - then skip it!

You might use some oil (perhaps as a pre-wash) or a honey rinse or an aloe/glycerin wash, maybe some protein or try some homemade recipes to add moisture without adding creamy stuff.

It's up to you. But ingredients like Cetrimonium bromide, cetrimonium chloride (only if high up on the ingredient list for this one - just a little is okay), coconut oil, Behentrimonium chloride or methosulfate, (hey, anything more than 8-10 carbons if you like chemistry) is going to weigh hair like yours down.

Keep trying things, you'll hit on the right combination. You might have to give your hair time to grow out the damage.

PS: Very interesting that your stylist in the late 80s showed you how to make your hair "spiral perm-y" rather than giving you one.

cleaverton · 06-13-2011, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IAgirl

Well, you're not alone about conditioner weighing your hair down.
I sometimes don't use any. Or I wash my hair with a mixture of aloe vera gel (the kind you could drink) and glycerin for moisture without coating agents.

Most conditioners have "quaternary cationic compounds" which is to say they have waxy-ish emulisifiers/emollients that make conditioner creamy and keep it from separating AND bond tightly to the hair fiber. If you've got fine hair and use this to wash with and then to condition too - you'e doomed. (A bit o' melodrama...)

Still, moisture is good for hair. Fatty alcohols aren't as tenacious (cetyl alcohol, cetraryl alcohol) on hair and light oils like grapeseed, apricot kernel don't soak in to add weight.
Protein helps hair hold moisture, panthenol is super for holding moisture.

Hair was built to break (thus it keeps growing), but it evolved under conditions without conditioner - just water for infrequent cleaning and natural oils from the scalp for preventing drying out and breakage.

So if detangling isn't a problem for you and the addition of conditioner doesn't help your curls have good shape (it does for some) - then skip it!

You might use some oil (perhaps as a pre-wash) or a honey rinse or an aloe/glycerin wash, maybe some protein or try some homemade recipes to add moisture without adding creamy stuff.

It's up to you. But ingredients like Cetrimonium bromide, cetrimonium chloride (only if high up on the ingredient list for this one - just a little is okay), coconut oil, Behentrimonium chloride or methosulfate, (hey, anything more than 8-10 carbons if you like chemistry) is going to weigh hair like yours down.

Keep trying things, you'll hit on the right combination. You might have to give your hair time to grow out the damage.

Thank you lagirl! I'm new, so I'm not sure what all that means though

LOL

I see that you are also low porosity. What is your normal, everyday routine? Should I low poo or no poo?

I'm so confused!

IAgirl · 06-13-2011, 11:25 AM

Hee hee, I'm long-winded! What it all means is that low porosity hair accumulates build up easily and most conditioners have a lot of build-up-y ingredients.

I use a really mild shampoo sometimes, I wash my hair with water (usually) or herbal tea or aloe vera gel+glycerin every day (I have allergies & need to remove allergens). I use conditioner without a lot of build-up-y stuff in it (see above)... It's very light stuff - more like a detangler. And sometimes I don't use any if my hair feels good.

I use a gelatin protein treatment when my hair gets limp-looking - your hair might like this: PT recipe - as promised

Probably conditioner for fine or oily hair would do if you want to use one.
Protein is great for damaged hair, give it a try!

Do what works. You can even use your Suave Clarifying shampoo if you don't shampoo every day (i.e. rinse in between or just don't wet at all) if you're worried it will damage your hair. Or else just dilute it a whole lot when you use it - then it becomes a low-poo.

Moisture is good for hair, but you can get that from using oils on dry hair (to hold moisture in) or from using aloe or a rinse of honey in water (humectant) or protein or glycerin. Well-moisturized hair tends to be healthier.

Lots and lots of conditioner is right for some people, but not all.

cleaverton · 06-13-2011, 12:36 PM

Thanks so much lagirl. I will try what you suggested and just keep playing around with different products. Wish it was long enough that if I have a really bad hair day, I can pull it up

lol

I called around to a few salons (I'm in a very small community) looking for sulfate free shampoo and found some Adigar sulfate free with Agar oil????? Something like that. Would this probably just weigh my hair down since it's an oil?

Oh, I just remembered, my hair used to respond really well to hot oil treatments! Wonder if you can still buy those?? Maybe that was because it was heated up first and I always used hot water.

Lots of experimenting to do

IAgirl · 06-13-2011, 12:40 PM

Yep, you can still buy hot oil treatments. They're not 100% oil, there are some other goodies in there, they should do some good stuff.
I don't know that shampoo, but argan oil is popular these days. You can get some (generic) baby shampoos without sulfates, Burt's Bees (might dilute that one) to name 2 off the top of my head.

cleaverton · 06-13-2011, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IAgirl

PS: Very interesting that your stylist in the late 80s showed you how to make your hair "spiral perm-y" rather than giving you one.

My stylist was also my second cousin and we went to school together. In high school, she used to sit behind me and play with my hair. LOL

Her mother always owned a salon, but she decided to be a dental assistant. Eventually, she did go to cosmetology school and worked with her mom for a while and opened her own shop later on.

Not sure if she was just somewhat "attached" to my hair due to us being related and her playing with it for so long or if she just truly knew her stuff and didn't want to do a damaging perm if she didn't have to.

I may have to call her....

swtndspcy · 06-15-2011, 07:16 AM

This just occurred to me (as I was doing the spritz and condish) that modified version of the spritz and condish might work for you. Instead just low pooing or co washing the scalp when you shower, you could low-poo it all out. I actually used to do this when I was young and BIG hair was in style, not the spritz and condish per say, but I would condition than wash. That way my hair didn't dry out but I still had lots of volume!
In case you don't know the technique I am referring to:
You mist hair until it is very damp, apply conditioner and let it sit for a bit, 10 minutes to however long you want. Then when you shower (in the original method) you would low poo the scalp or co wash and rinse it all out.
But I was thinking, you could still get the benefits of conditioning by sprtizing applying condish, then low-poo everything out so it doesn't sit on the hair. This way, you could also detangle while hair had condish on it then after low-pooing you could just fix any parts that got tangley.
Just a thought, I don't have low-porosity, so I don't know how well it would work, but may be worth a try!

cleaverton · 06-15-2011, 03:34 PM

Thank you! I may have to try that. I'm trying everything I can think of LOL Washing/fixing my hair is kind of a hobby these last few days

I did buy the Agadir Argan oil shampoo and conditioner. The conditioner makes my hair flat/limp if left to air dry. This morning, I used the shampoo (no sulfate or parabens) and applied a little AnGel and the Set and diffused. So far, so good on curl, but does look slightly "producty". However, I did get curl on the crown of my head which has been rare these last few years. I'm not going to do anything with it tonight and see what second day hair does in the morning.

Sometime in the near future, I'm going to use the Agadir poo and let it air dry and see what happens.

I'm just so over producty hair! I can't hardly even stand hair spray in it anymore and I used to always (always) have to have hair spray in it. I just can't hardly take the stiff/sticky feel of all the products anymore

Basically, if I use conditioner and air dry, it's limp and scraggly and thin looking. If I don't use conditioner and let it air dry, it's big and poofy and fly away.

I'm willing to try anything!

IAgirl · 06-15-2011, 11:44 PM

You sound like a great candidate for homemade flaxseed gel! It helps define, moisturizes, and leaves hair soft and touchable.
It's really easy to make:
Boil 2-3 tablespoons whole flax seeds in a cup of distilled or filtered water for about 5-6 minutes. It will look kind of snotty or like egg whites. Then strain through a strainer (the window-screen-y kind, not a pasta strainer) and that's it.

You scrunch several puddles of this (run through blender for a less stringy gel) into your hair so it sounds all squishy. I leave it for a bit and let it get tacky, then scrunch some more and diffuse a little.

Very good stuff and super cheap. Doesn't feel producty.

cleaverton · 06-17-2011, 09:01 AM

lagirl where do I get flax seeds at???? LOL

missbanjo · 06-17-2011, 10:06 AM

I lo-poo with Shea Moisture Moisture Retention shampoo. You can get it at Walgreens and some Targets. Sometimes I use a leave in conditioner if my hair feels like it needs it but not very often.

Flax seeds you can get at a natural food store, they're used in foods as supplements as well as our hair stuff.

IAgirl · 06-17-2011, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by missbanjo

I lo-poo with Shea Moisture Moisture Retention shampoo. You can get it at Walgreens and some Targets. Sometimes I use a leave in conditioner if my hair feels like it needs it but not very often.

Flax seeds you can get at a natural food store, they're used in foods as supplements as well as our hair stuff.

Check that, I saw them at WalMart and Walgreens, sold as supplements. It's better to get whole ones because they're easier to strain, but I have made it with ground flaxseeds too.