Curly needs help from wavies! Please!

stacyw71 · 11-07-2011, 02:47 PM

I have been CG for 1 1/2 months and my hair is looking a lot better. My routine is co-wash, RO condition, LI condition, followed by gel and SOTC. My products are in my signature. I DT and ACV Rinse weekly. Enough about me...let me tell you what the problem is.

The problem is with my 11 year old daughter's hair. She is barely wavy, probably because she brushes out her hair. I imagine it would be wavier if she agreed not to, which I'm not sure will happen, because she wakes up with a lot of tangles. Her problem is with FRIZZ. She has a lot of it.

I have her using Organix Coconut (sulfate-free) shampoo and Suave naturals coconut conditioner. I told her to only use shampoo every other shower, but that she should condition each time. She always showers at night so we are dealing with dry hair in the morning. I have been helping her detangle by spritzing with water and adding a little conditioner for slip. I also bought her a satin pillowcase. Her hair is damaged and broken from elastics and from the way she used to get the tangles out (by just pulling hard with a brush). The broken hairs really frizz on her canopy as well as other hair too. I am wondering if her hair was less frizzy with the silicones.

I'm kind of at a loss for what to use on her because my hair is very thick, coarse, and curly so my products will probably weigh her hair down and make it look greasy. Can any of you wavies, make product or method recommendations?

Lahomajayne · 11-07-2011, 04:48 PM

Hi! I used to have horrid snarly messy frizzy wavy hair, now its much more luxurious and even a little curly after having some much needed good care. I highly recommend Kinky Curly Knot Today for your daughters hair...it is really good for getting out the tangles! Have her use just a little bit - like a dime sized amount on her hair when she gets out of the shower and then tell her to gently comb her hair with a wide tooth comb to get rid of the tangles. Or alternately she can comb out the tangles while in the shower with her hair loaded up with conditioner. You might want to try a nice natural product just to help control her frizz - Shea moisture curl enhancing smoothie or the curl and style milk are nice, used in moderation they are very light and wont weigh down her hair but should help give it enough weight that it's not just fly away. She should never brush her hair when its wet, only use a shower comb or other type of wide tooth comb. If she does need to de-tangle when its dry - you can mix a tablespoon of KCKT in a sprayer bottle of water and just mist it lightly over her hair then comb it out very gently. Its slightly acidic so it smooths out the hair shaft and makes it easier to remove tangles.
Hope this helps! My daughters hair was just like mine when she was little - baby fine forever and a snarly rats nest all the time! I sympathize!

IAgirl · 11-07-2011, 05:26 PM

Everything Lahomajane said...
Suave Naturals is good - it can actually make my fine waves kind of flyaway.

Protein is very good for fine hair - using protein can make hair less tangly over time, it fills in the gaps from damage and smooths everything over nicely. Here are some suggestions in this thread: Favorite protein products?
You can get Ion Effective Care Protein treatment at Sally's.
A trim might help with the tangles a bit. Layers in a haircut are best for waves (long layers) and I suspect they reduce tangles because the hairs are not all the same length.

Have her try a "just once" experiment to see how wavy she is by combing in the conditioner, rinsing, blotting dry and then doing nothing. That will let her hair show its wave pattern. It's night-time anyhow, so she won't have to wear it that way all day. You both might be surprised at the results and that might encourage her to stop brushing out her waves.

I brushed out my wavy curls when I was 11 because that's what my curly mother taught me with my unruly "straight, flat" hair. Waves tend to look messy to some wavies at first, but with time and care and compliments from you, they'll come into their own and she may grow to love them.

gecko · 11-07-2011, 10:20 PM

stacy -

Wow, your situation sounds familiar. I have a 10 yr old with fine swavy hair. When I wasn't sure what to do with her surface frizz and tangles, it really helped to do side-by-side experiments like I do on my own hair. For example, I tried using a product on half her damp hair and water on the other (or another product). I was surprised to find that generous protein-containing co and li (esp on ends) worked very well for her.

When I had her give up brushing for 2 weeks, I thought her hair looked great, but she didn't. She says she prefers her hair fluffy like after it is brushed; strange because she teased me for years for having mushroom head (pre CG). She is now back to brushing, but the Denman does not pull her hair like the old brush did. I think the brushing probably does damage her hair and will contribute to tangles and breakage, but it does not hurt her wave pattern much. If her hair is well moisturized, her clumps of swaves come back within an hour after brushing. Maybe if she knows that other girls only finger comb their dry hair, she'll want to do that too. Let me know!

I like to put li in her ends and a bit on the surface after she squeezes her hair dry, then brush it in with the Denman. I have yet to try this with FSG or SSCEJ, but I plan to. I plan to get some Renpure green or red for her sometime. Despite my request, she uses very little product in the shower and massages and detangles very little (oh, well). By the way, a (cheap) shower water filter made a huge difference in her tangles.

Products...Here are some things I've tried recently on my girl. Everything has protein except the shampoo. Legend g = good/great, n = not bad but not very good (nothing has been bad), j = bought just for her, m = my stuff, s = good but too strong smelling for her taste

Free&Clear shampoo (ff lowpoo) jg
Sally's Cure Care (ff cowash or detangling co - used very generously) jg
AubreyGPB (co) msg
Suave coconut co n
VO5 clarifying co n
Mop LI mg
CJCCCL (LI) mg
SSRPT mgs (comes in ff)

Our essential tools: water filter, denman, shower comb, scrunchies or braids for ponies.

If you do some experiments with your daughter, I'd definitely like to hear how it went, so I could try it with my daughter!

IAgirl · 11-07-2011, 11:45 PM

I have said this before, I think...
Gecko is so wise!

stacyw71 · 11-08-2011, 06:31 AM

Lahomajayne, IAgirl & gecko - Thank you for your replies!

I’m already a PJ for my own products, now I’m going to have to buy a million things for her to try.

I would love to try the KCKT (on both her and I), but my local Target(s) do not carry it. I guess I may just have to order it online! I may buy the Shea Moisture Smoothie. That’s another one I wanted to try out. Maybe these products will be good for at least one of us.

About protein…Yes. I was thinking maybe this may help her. I have an The Ion Reconstructer that I bought for me to try (I’m a little nervous with my coarse hair). Maybe I’ll pick up another pack and see if it helps her. Or like gecko said look for everyday products with protein in them.

Gecko - The SMELLS! This is big! It is so important to her and makes finding products difficult. That’s why I have her using the coconut products, mostly because the smells make her happy.

This morning, I sprayed her hair with water and put a very little bit of GVP conditioning balm in her hair. I put it in my hands with water to dilute it and help it spread easier because it is a thick conditioner. It helped with detangling and I was able to only use a wide comb. I won’t know if it helps with frizz or if her hair would be too greasy looking, because she decided to put it up in a ponytail after I applied the conditioner. I guess we’ll have to try it again another day.

IAgirl · 11-08-2011, 07:57 AM

How about getting her some fabric-covered ponytail holders or narrow scrunchies to reduce ponytail-holder damage? I have some made of some sort of fabric. They don't last forever, but they also don't damage my hair much and come with a LOT on a card of them.

stacyw71 · 11-08-2011, 08:33 AM

I actually found something like that in one of my drawers this morning. That's what she used today!

stacyw71 · 11-08-2011, 08:36 AM

I should add that we live in Florida and have a solar heated pool. So her hair is exposed to a lot of chlorine from March-October/November. We don't have a lot of non-swimming months around here.

IAgirl · 11-08-2011, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stacyw71

I should add that we live in Florida and have a solar heated pool. So her hair is exposed to a lot of chlorine from March-October/November. We don't have a lot of non-swimming months around here.

Then this might interest you: science-y hair blog: Your Hair on Chlorine

hoodie · 11-08-2011, 12:10 PM

Brilliant, IAGirl - I am swimming tomorrow! That was hugely helpful!!!

stacyw71 · 11-08-2011, 12:20 PM

Thanks IAgirl!

I have a question about the swimming. There is no way an 11 year old girl (or at least my 11 year old girl) is going to wear a bathing cap. Do you think the conditioner would still help? or do you think the motion of the swimming would just rinse it all out?

Lahomajayne · 11-08-2011, 01:17 PM

Condition it then put it up in a ponytail/bun to minimize swishing of hair before she goes in the pool?

IAgirl · 11-08-2011, 01:48 PM

I agree with Lahomajane - tie hair up - fewer tangles and less water flow-through.
Conditioner applied to dry hair should do some good because it will bond to her hair as it coats (does that sound too much like a commercial for Pepto Bismol?). Some of it will wash off - but she's probably not swimming vigorous laps (unless she does that

) so at least some should stay on as a buffer.

11 year olds in swim caps... Yeah, I don't see that happening either. Not unless they're on a swim team.

gecko · 11-08-2011, 03:05 PM

More thoughts:

KCKT comes in ff too, called Kinky-Curly Tiny Twirls Detangling Conditioner .

Protein - You can add gelatin or Sally's neutral protein filler to single uses of conditioners you already have. Ask IAgirl for details.

Hope you had fun at the pool!

stacyw71 · 11-10-2011, 05:07 PM

I found the KCKT! I also bought her a super duper wide tooth comb. The combination of these two really help with the tangles. I also bought her some more narrow scrunchies. Now we just need to tackle the Frizz!

stacyw71 · 11-10-2011, 05:10 PM

I'm a little hesitant with the protein because my hair doesn't like it. I also pulled a hair out of her brush and like mine, it snaps easily. Do you think I can add a little of the Ion reconstructer to her conditioner once in a while to try it without doing a full protein treatment for the whole 8-10 minutes suggested?

IAgirl · 11-10-2011, 07:59 PM

Try the Ion PT on a small section of hair first. That way, you can see if it does any good without committing all her hair to the product.
The Ion Effective Care Ion - Repair Solutions - Ion Effective Care Treatment 1 oz is more like a conditioner with a respectable helping of protein. Might be less scary for you and less of a hassle.

For frizz, people who have easily weighed down hair usually rely on leave-in conditioners (just a very, very small amount) or protein (protein can really cut down on frizz!) or products like gel that stick hair together. Conditioner intentionally weighs the hair down - that's why people with a lot of frizz may not rinse any out at all.

Strong hold gels and strongly-scented ones aren't really the "thing" for kids that age (at least not when I was working with them not that long ago). But lighter "barely there" gels like FSG, AVG, UFD curly magic, Aubrey B5 design gel might help with definition and frizz without being sticky or crunchy. These can all be combed through if she likes that look better or needs to make a ponytail.

The Ion effective care looks to be a better product (IMO) - the reconstructor seems to have more formaldehyde than protein, based on the product list.

pedaheh · 11-10-2011, 08:55 PM

My hair snaps right away with the stretch test, but my hair still needs I healthy amount of protein.

The ingredients for the Ion reconstructor on the sally's website are not up to date. I believe there is more protein in the new version.

Maybe try a spray gel???

stacyw71 · 11-27-2011, 02:06 PM

I FINALLY went to Sally's and bought the Effective Care! I've been avoiding this because my hair hates protein so I've been hesitant to use it on her. I decided to buy it because lately, I've been feeling like maybe she is over-conditioned (which is almost impossible on my hair). Before she uses it, I have a few questions.

1. Should she follow the Ion Effective Care with a RO conditioner?

2. How often do you use it? It says 'daily' on the package, but that seems like overkill. Like she might go from over-conditioned to over-proteined.

Also I bought what I thought was a denman brush, but when I got home I noticed it was something else (the shelf was labeled incorrectly). So what exactly is special about a Denman? The brush I got is a Beautique. It is a 9 row silicone styling brush with nylon pins and a silicone brush pad that says 'ideal for long, thick or curly hair'. Is this comparable to a Denman?

Also, anymore product recs? She will not use gel other than spray gel because she hates 'hard hair' even if you can SOTC. I did buy Garnier Pure Clean smoothing cream and we're going to try that.

I did make a spray detangler with KCKT and some GF Triple nutrition, but I wonder if that may contribute to over conditioning. Her hair doesn't look greasy, but the frizz halo is still around, maybe worse. She does need something for the tangles though. Should I just use the KCKT without the GFTN?

Any input is appreciated. Thanks!