Conditioner kills my waves. Help!

stacia · 04-26-2012, 01:26 PM

Hi all! I've been lurking for a little bit and decided to finally post, maybe some of you lovely wavies can give me some advise. Up until recently I've thought my hair was mostly straight with a few waves and spirals near my ears. I've been co-washing for about 2 weeks, and used a sulfate free shampoo for my roots the other day. What I've been noticing is that if I do a water only rinse, my hair dries with about 3x the wave. I've been using Suave tropical coconut and almond and Shea butter. I tried the V05 key lime clarifying conditioner which left my hair dry and mane n tail original. The only thing that really brings out the wave (which is tight and even starts at the roots when I do this) is just plain cold water which makes me think I'm rinsing out too-heavy conditioner. Am I over conditioning or should I switch to a lighter conditioner? My hair is thick and course with some damage from color and heat styling which I no longer subject my hair to. I'm not 100% on the type yet, this is all pretty new to me. I can't plop as my hair is just above shoulder length and gets wonky. I've tried Fructis root boost because it's a light spray gel but i believe it has cones, so I switched to Suave aloe vera frizz free gel. I'm thinking i should co-wash less (i've been doing every other day at least) and do water only rinses for the non-washing days. I've always been aware of some wave but there's way more than I thought and I'm at a loss as to how to even manage it.

kimmidawn · 04-26-2012, 02:53 PM

What have you been using for your rinse out conditioner? It might be something with too many oils, especially if your hair is fine, and that might be why you don't have as much wave. Hopefully someone else can chime in with more advice.

jakrussel3 · 04-26-2012, 03:28 PM

Sounds to me like your conditioner is too heavy too. I'm still experimenting with product, but I'm thinking about switching up to lighter products soon too. you may benefit from a hair analysis. It'll tell you what properties your hair has so you can make better product choices. You can get one from the Live Curly Live Free website for about $20 and it'll include product recommendations. I'm supposed to use lighter conditioners with fewer emollients and less protein. Suave Naturals Conditioner (Waterfall Mist or Wild Cherry Blosson) was on the list I got.

bluebonnet · 04-26-2012, 04:44 PM

I co wash only twice a week with one of the two conditioners in my signature. I don't usually use a leave in either. Too much conditioner doesn't do well for me either. I also have a lot of course, wiry/kinky hair, mixed with regular hair strands. I'm pretty new at co washing since i just started about 8 weeks ago, but that has been my experience so far

kimmidawn · 04-26-2012, 05:30 PM

Oh now I understand; I'm on the CurlTalk app. Would you mind posting your siggy so I can see if I have any more insight?

kimmidawn · 04-26-2012, 05:30 PM

Because on the app, I can't see signatures

cocoastella · 04-26-2012, 06:45 PM

Press 'Menu' then 'Browser'

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Jas76 · 04-26-2012, 09:18 PM

Just a thought, here - have you tried PT's? That may do the trick for you!

You could also try the water rinses, and add a little acv to it every now and then. Then instead of a rinse out you could use a lighter LI.

Of course if you start using more protein you may find your usually conditioner works just fine!

plunkybug · 04-26-2012, 10:30 PM

If your hair is coarse, then you may have to be easy with the protein. But I'd definitely say to cut back on co-washing, and that you might be over-conditioned. That said, there is a transition period for co-washing while your scalp adjusts. Most wavies can't strictly co-wash, but there are a few exceptions to the rule. It might just be the wrong conditioner. You might look into a cleansing conditioner that has a bit more cleansing power than just co-washing.

HTH

lucyprimrose · 04-26-2012, 10:46 PM

I wasn't quite sure whether you mean that you get best results if you co wash but then don't use another conditioner after, or whether you meant best results if you just water wash.

I've noticed that if you rinse your co wash out thoroughly, sometimes even if you've used other products after it, you can still smell the fragrance of the co wash product hours later. I'll bet a little bit of conditioning benefit is left behind after rinsing, even if we intend to totally rinse. So if you just co wash and don't use a rinse out, you have still conditioned a fair bit. The advantage of conditioning again after co wash is meant to be firstly, your hair will be cleaner of other products or residue and allow the second conditioner to get to work without them blocking it, and secondly you might be wanting to use a conditioner with different ingredients, eg. more oils or moisture, to treat the lengths than you did for the scalp. But if you don't feel you need more conditioning, you could skip the rinse out conditioner altogether or just skim a bit of your co wash, lighter conditioner over the lengths at the end of co washing and then rinse out.

If you water wash only, I think you'll feel more of the products you've used in recent days or washes left in, but that could work well, offering a bit of moisture but not weighing down too much. See how it goes and if you have water washed only but want to add a bit of product to style, you'll probably need less as some will be there residually. Personally I don't think water washing all the time is good if you use any product ( I know you weren't suggesting that).

Something I am going to try is herbal rinses. You can steep dried herbs (eg. from anita grant) just like making tea, and use them as a final rinse when cool. That could be a good substitute for some of your rinse outs, but I don't have much info on it yet. If you try it, check out the herb won't alter colour or anything.

stacia · 04-27-2012, 11:39 AM

Thanks so much for all the responses! I usually just cowash, rinse, and that's it. My hair doesn't like protein much. I had some luck with the Miracle 7 protein line before I started cowashing but it built up really fast. The leave-ins I (occasionally) use are generally light - Infusium 23 and BTZ Last Call. I need to go thru my collection and figure out what has good ingredients. I used to work at Sally and got a lot of free/cheap stuff and did a lot of damage with color processes then tried to fix it, so I'm overwhelmed with products. The only oil I use (again, only as needed) is buriti and sometimes macadamia. I'm going to try cutting back on cowashing and washing with a sulphate free shampoo once a week, and see how that goes.

Corrina777 · 04-27-2012, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stacia

Thanks so much for all the responses! I usually just cowash, rinse, and that's it. My hair doesn't like protein much. I had some luck with the Miracle 7 protein line before I started cowashing but it built up really fast. The leave-ins I (occasionally) use are generally light - Infusium 23 and BTZ Last Call. I need to go thru my collection and figure out what has good ingredients. I used to work at Sally and got a lot of free/cheap stuff and did a lot of damage with color processes then tried to fix it, so I'm overwhelmed with products. The only oil I use (again, only as needed) is buriti and sometimes macadamia. I'm going to try cutting back on cowashing and washing with a sulphate free shampoo once a week, and see how that goes.

Miracle 7 and Infusium 23 have cones, so they would definitely build-up if you're only co-washing, I wouldn't take that as a sign that your hair doesn't like protein. I don't know the ingredients for the BTZ product, so I can't say one way or another.

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stacia · 04-27-2012, 02:50 PM

I don't use the Miracle 7 anymore. I wouldn't have in the first place but got the whole line as a free sample. I've done Aphogee 2-Step protein treatments and I have the GVP of K-Pak Reconstructer. I just find that anything with protein dries my hair out even with a follow-up deep conditioning. Maybe it's the other ingredients? I'm really new to this though, seems like everything I thought I knew is wrong! The BTZ leave in has amodimethicone, but no other cones.

Here's my results after using sulphate free shampoo (Finesse Clean + Simple) and GVP Conditioning Balm, plopping in my Turbie Twist knock-off for the first time (have not had success with a t-shirt) and scrunching with Suave gel. (Hope this pic works!)

IAgirl · 04-27-2012, 02:53 PM

I wonder whether your hair is really coarse. Around here - "coarse" means the individual hairs are very thick in diameter. And that suggests a whole bunch of things that don't really go along with hair that is getting overconditioned with cowashing. Perhaps your hair is "medium" and the coarseness you feel is either dry, rough feeling?

I water wash whenever I don't shampoo and I rarely cowash. Water-washing is great, you can always condition a bit after that if you need it. Another good solution to help your dryness without too much weight is to do a condition-shampoo-condition or apply oil like coconut or olive, then shampoo, then condition.

Your hair will set "the rules" for you. If it's response implies, "Not too much conditioner, please, and I prefer to be just water-washed some days" then go with it.
ETA: Posted as you did - lovely hair. Definitely looks in the medium to maybe even medium-mixed-with-fine category.

stacia · 04-27-2012, 05:16 PM

I know it's thick in density. If I run a strand through two fingers, I can definitely feel it. Maybe it's a medium/coarse mix...dunno!

lcl0706 · 04-27-2012, 06:04 PM

I have fine-ish hair and I can feel my strands too when I run one between two fingers. Baby fine hair is hard to feel - ask touch.of.ink

Just judging from your picture - lovely hair btw - I agree with IAgirl, it doesn't look like it would be coarse. Coarse hair feels wiry. I thought my hair was coarse when I first started CG - it was just very dry and rough feeling. It can be easily mixed up. I'm not saying you're totally wrong, just offering that up. If you pull it up into a scrunchie or bobby pin it, does it get dents easily? That's a trademark of fine hair. I can't have my hair in a ponytail for 5 minutes before it has that ponytail dent. If I pull it up, I have to commit to that for all day. I can't pineapple for the same reason. Can't wrap it or sleep in a satin cap overnight either... my hair takes on the shape of the cap.

Coarse hair isn't easily OC'd, which is what it sounds like yours is. How hard is it to curling iron? (when you used to) - Will it hold a style?

Touch.of.ink · 04-28-2012, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lcl0706

I have fine-ish hair and I can feel my strands too when I run one between two fingers. Baby fine hair is hard to feel - ask touch.of.ink

Yup

Remember the story of the Emperor's New Clothes? Well, they were weaving a cloth, but it was out of my hair, that's why it looked invisible

stacia · 05-04-2012, 02:54 PM

If I stick my hair behind my ear, it holds on to that wave for dear life and if I even lay on it weird for a bit it's almost impossible to get out the weirdness without wetting it. The wave my hair has if I'm lazy about it and don't try to encourage it with scrunching almost looks like I had it in a ponytail and took it down. I just flat-ironed last night for the first time in ages and an hour later it waved up again slightly and by the morning the waves in the back returned in some places and my curly side pieces came back. When I was using SLS shampoos, it held the style so much better! Then again, I was also using higher heat and was way drier. I feel like I need a hair coach! Anyway, I believe I have (and others have) maybe confused surface frizz for coarseness. Thanks for all your help! I've switched to Renpure moisturizing shampoo and volume conditioner. Does it usually take some time with this method to see the hair texture "emerge?"

lcl0706 · 05-04-2012, 04:47 PM

It definitely sounds finer textured. Sounds like you could use some protein! I love ION Effective Care as a good protein RO, but some people find it works good as a PT. Protein helps repair the damage caused from flatironing and highlighting (if u ever did). And fine hair by nature needs protein for strength, as it manufactures little on its own.

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stacia · 05-04-2012, 09:23 PM

I actually have a packet of that and was thinking about using it today, but I've been so confused about the protein/moisture balance. I'll use it next time I wash! Thanks!