Adding volume without frizz

lazyloops · 05-11-2012, 06:42 PM

Hi wavy girls! I'm looking for advice on adding volume (but not frizz/flyaway). My hair is 2a/b just depending on the day. My hair is nearly baby-fine and I suppose I have a medium sized pony tail (although it seems to be getting smaller as I get older). My hair is in healthy condition. I've demi-dyed it a couple of times, but it is mostly soft and smooth. It is very very limp.

Porosity is still a bit of a mystery to me. I cut off a 2 inch piece of hair the other day and sunk it in an aged glass of water. It floated to the top and stayed there. I even added a few drops of soapy water to break the surface tension just to be sure. Hours later it was still floating. BUT, I also rinsed with vinegar just hours before hand and my hair felt extra soft. To be precise; I used GFTN to condition and then I sprayed water that has white vinegar and lemonjuice in it into my hair to make sure the conditioner stayed in there. Then I did a cool rinse. So, maybe that wasn't a true assessment of my porosity. If I slide my thumb and index finger up a strand, it feels smooth, and it squeaks. Is the squeak a sign of porosity-friction? Heck if I know. I'm mystified.

I tried "Curls - Goddess Curls" in my hair. I put it in wet hair and scrunched like crazy. Then I diffused upside down. My hair, which has achieved 2c on a couple of occasions, was nearly straight an hour later. I got clumping to the roots when wet, but as my hair dried I quickly became a 2a with no curl definition or separation. My hair has never felt smoother, which is nice, but where did my waves go? I guess that product is a bust for me.

I bought the Evercream Conditioning Cleanser tonight, and some Biosilk Rock Hard Gelle. I'll try that out soon.

So, what works for you limp wavygirlz?

Touch.of.ink · 05-11-2012, 10:14 PM

Fine, limp hair? I'd start with a protein treatment, followed by a deep conditioning treatment.

On a daily basis, I find that aloe vera gel (the kind you drink and have to refrigerate, I like Lily of the Desert) is a great tool for my fine hair.

Also, when was your last hair cut?

lazyloops · 05-12-2012, 04:42 AM

My hair was last cut on April 5th, so just barely over a month ago.

Obviously, I was going for the straight look that day. This was taken by my (2b/c) 7 year old right after I got back from the salon. Normally my hair doesn't look this full. I'm able to go back and forth between straight and wavy at will.

Any recommendations on a protein treatment? I went to three different drugstores last night looking for the BRHG and I looked for protein treatments, but everything said it was for straightening, or it didn't appear to be CG-safe. I have a bottle of Aveeno wheat protein leave-in, but that seems to make my hair frizzy. BUT it's quite possible that my frizz was caused by reckless scrunching. It just seems like worse frizz when I use the leave-in.

I think Mag sulfate might give me more volume, but I don't know how much to use. I have some diluted in a spray bottle, but I think it is too concentrated because it makes our hair totally unmanageable and disgusting. It gave my daughter awesome curls, but her hair felt disgusting.

What do you do with the aloe? Mist it in after washing?

Thanks so much!

lazyloops · 05-12-2012, 07:17 AM

Adding volume without frizz-img_9339.jpg

Here's my hair freshly washed with Evercream Clensing Conditioner. With my head upside down I rinsed, squeezed out excess water and then I raked through a dollop of BRHG and scrunched... a lot. On rare occasions I can get a tighter wave pattern. I guess today is not one of those days. I had a really good hair day on Monday which motivated me to buy more products and try harder, but I haven't been able to duplicate it.

Now, I could go diffuse upside-down, but I'm unhappy with the amount of scalp I see, and the pathetic lack of volume, in spite of rinsing and scrunching in gel upside down. I envy 2c/3a people. *sigh* I think I'm going to suffer wavy burnout soon if I don't get some improvement.

Sorry about the weird expression, I was looking at the reflection of my camera in my mirror.

lazyloops · 05-12-2012, 07:39 AM

Adding volume without frizz-img_9342.jpg

Adding volume without frizz-img_9344.jpg

Okay, I diffused upside down 90% dry. I'm impressed. It turned out better than I thought. Here's the catch though. My waves are VERY fragile. It is difficult to get my hair to hold any kind of style for more than 20 minutes. I'm afraid to scrunch out the crunch.

Talk to me, girls!

Touch.of.ink · 05-12-2012, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nats_mom

Attachment 21347 Attachment 21348

Okay, I diffused upside down 90% dry. I'm impressed. It turned out better than I thought. Here's the catch though. My waves are VERY fragile. It is difficult to get my hair to hold any kind of style for more than 20 minutes. I'm afraid to scrunch out the crunch.

Talk to me, girls!

Oh my gosh, I recognize so much of my hair in how you describe your hair. My curls are very fragile, too!

Here's the thing. A lot of stuff didn't work for me when I first started going CG. After a month or so, I would try them again, and they worked better. I don't know if it was because my hair had changed, if my technique improved, or both.

Applying product to dripping wet hair didn't work at first. Now it does. I use the aloe straight out of the bottle, and just scrunch and pump it into my hair. Then I use my microfiber towel to scrunch and pump some more. I actually find that it works better for me if I lift my hair up in my hands (like pressing a spring) rather than squeezing it in my hands, but that's something you may need to play around with.

I also love Spiral Solutions (SS) Curl Enhancing Jelly, and their Firm Hold Gel. The creator of the line has fine hair herself, so she gets it.

When I first started using SS, I used very little. Now I use a lot more, and find that it works better.

Touch.of.ink · 05-12-2012, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nats_mom

Attachment 21347 Attachment 21348

That's a huge difference! You look great

Touch.of.ink · 05-12-2012, 12:49 PM

Oh, for a protein treatment, I'd recommend IAGirls protein treatment recipe.

science-y hair blog: Recipes and Projects

lazyloops · 05-12-2012, 05:40 PM

Quote:

A lot of stuff didn't work for me when I first started going CG. After a month or so, I would try them again, and they worked better.

I've actually been sort of a mod-cg for a long time, as far as hair-care is concerned. I've been avoiding cones for about 9 years. I tried to just co-wash, but my hair gets really oily and co-washing just doesn't cut it for me. I went a few weeks without shampoo, but I had to cover my head in public, it was so nasty. So what I've been doing for a the past year or two is washing with L'oreal sulfate-free shampoo (I take this claim with a grain of salt), and I water it down in a foaming hand-soap pump dispenser. I wash my hair with the foam, and then I use GFTN to condition (or Suave coconut). I've been doing this routine for about 2 years. It's about as CG-orthodox as I've been able to pull off thus far. I'm hoping the Evercream Cleansing Conditioner might work for me. So far so good.

Quote:

I also love Spiral Solutions (SS) Curl Enhancing Jelly, and their Firm Hold Gel. The creator of the line has fine hair herself, so she gets it.

Which has more hold for your fragile waves? SS or BRHG? My hair held up really well today. It got more limp as the day wore on, but it never got frizzy, and I did eventually finger-comb it.

So, are you my hair twin??!

Touch.of.ink · 05-12-2012, 10:21 PM

If we're not hair twins, I think we're at least hair sisters

I too have been using sulfate free shampoo for years. I never used any styling products, so I was cone free, too. Co-washing works great for me. For one day, and only if I used one type of conditioner. (None of the others I tried worked.) More than one day in a row is just icky.

My hair responds really well to mag sulfate. I use it for hair spray, texture, rescrunching, beachy waves, all sorts of things.

BRHG has more hold for me, but here's the thing. SS Firm Hold has *enough* hold for me. BRHG is my holy grail for hold, and I will never give it up, but for more relaxed day, or even just the first half of the day, the SS Firm Hold is good enough. It's easier to scrunch out the crunch.

A couple of days ago, I started using BRHG to revive my curls at noon. (I put in my dry hair, upside down, and slide my hands in gently to my roots.) So I start with Firm Hold, and then add BRHG later in the day if I feel my curls are falling

lazyloops · 05-13-2012, 04:44 AM

What kind of dilution do you use for your Mag Sulfate? I have some in a spray bottle, but I probably used 1/4C to 1.5 cups of water and it is terrible stuff. It makes our hair curl a bit better, but it's so gunky and dry-feeling and difficult to wash out. We only use it for school picture day.

Here's my daughter's picture from 2 years ago:

I took this picture after school (on picture day), so this is late afternoon hair. It looks great, but you couldn't put a wide tooth comb through it without eliciting screams of torture. It was a gluey rat's nest thanks to Epsom Salts.

I've got the beachy-waves thing going on this morning. My scalp feels oily and it's making my roots limp. My hair doesn't LOOK too oily though. I think it will look gross by mid-day. But, I'm going to press-on and see if I can get the co-washing every other day to work for me.

I'm also in the middle of making some FSG. Should be fun. Have you tried this?

Touch.of.ink · 05-13-2012, 01:26 PM

A lot of wavies never get co-washing to work. I only do it about once a month, myself. Trying to alternate between shampoo days and co-wash days was more than I could remember at 5:30 in the morning, so now I only do it on the occasional weekend day.

Your mixture sounds mag sulfate heavy! Try a teaspoon to that much water, I think. I don't make my own, I just use the John Master Organic Sea Mist and Lavender stuff. It works so well for me, I'm afraid to mess with a different recipe

The secret to combing your hair with the mag sulfate spray is... don't

The idea is that any time you use a brush or a comb on dry hair, you're disrupting your curl pattern and causing frizz.

Right now, I only comb my hair in the shower, when it's loaded with conditioner. Sometimes I use a wide tooth comb, and sometimes I just use my fingers.

(I did have a transition period though, while giving up combing, because I thought my hair looked too producty if I didn't comb it.)

Your daughter looks adorable!

lazyloops · 05-13-2012, 04:20 PM

Thanks for all of your help and kind comments.

Just tried the knox protein treatment. I added a tablespoon of aloe juice, a tablespoon of flax oil and a half teaspoon of honey. After I rinsed it out, I conditioned with GVP Conditioning Balm. I didn't put any styling product in it so I should be able to evaluate it when it is dry. So far, I can't see any difference.

So how do you use your sea mist? On dry hair or wet?

lazyloops · 05-13-2012, 05:39 PM

Okay, I'm going to go ahead and declare that my hair doesn't care for protein. My hair feels dry and crispy after the gelatin PT. It's more frizzy/poofy and less smooth. It might be a smidgen more shiny though.

Touch.of.ink · 05-13-2012, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nats_mom

Thanks for all of your help and kind comments.

Just tried the knox protein treatment. I added a tablespoon of aloe juice, a tablespoon of flax oil and a half teaspoon of honey. After I rinsed it out, I conditioned with GVP Conditioning Balm. I didn't put any styling product in it so I should be able to evaluate it when it is dry. So far, I can't see any difference.

So how do you use your sea mist? On dry hair or wet?

Just be sure to follow up your PT with a deep conditioning treatment!

As for the sea mist, yes

I use it on both wet and dry hair (though not usually on the same day.). Wet to add a little texture to my hair, or give more beachy waves. Dry as a hair spray, or to reactivate falling curls

lazyloops · 05-14-2012, 04:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Touch.of.ink

Just be sure to follow up your PT with a deep conditioning treatment!

Humectant or Emollient? Any recommendations? I left the Conditioning Balm on for a while, under a cap and a towel. Doesn't that count?

Sorry for all the questions but I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed right now with all the choices. I've been to 3 drug stores, 2 discount department stores and a Sally this week and I've been reading product reviews like there is no tomorrow. As soon as I think I know what I want, I can't find it anywhere. Then I buy something else that seems good, and I get home and read reviews and get buyer's remorse. I loathe shopping online because I can't read the label, or smell and touch the product before I buy... AND I have to pay shipping and wait for it to arrive. I want it NOW! lol

kathymack · 05-14-2012, 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nats_mom

I left the Conditioning Balm on for a while, under a cap and a towel. Doesn't that count?

My answer to that would be NO! My hair is fine, low porosity, low density. I didn't find the Conditioning Balm moisturizing enough as a rinse out, so I certainly wouldn't consider it as a DT.

I started out as a winter wavy/summer 3a--never used products until I started lurking on nc.com. Low porosity hair has difficulty absorbing products (moisture.) I use minute amounts of really rich products every day. My hair never met a protein it didn't like. I do at least one PT a week and use A LOT of products with protein. My hair is well moisturized (the shampoo guy at the salon won't condition it because it's in such great shape) that I never DT. I use moisturizing PTs and use a richer conditioner after I rinse them out. That's enough for me.

We all become pj's when we first start here--have to try everything! I'm still a product strumpet, but I've learned that my hair prefers the more natural products from the online, boutique type companies. It's well worth the wait (and the shipping costs.) Most of the product ingredients are listed on the websites. At this point, I've gotten better about what my hair might like--and usually do well when selecting new products. It's really worth the wait when you're getting the right products for your hair. If you're using a lot of on the ground products and not finding success, I suggest that you take the next step.

llb93 · 05-14-2012, 06:48 AM

I wouldn't give up on protein just yet. My hair was horrible after trying the gelatin PT, but lately I've been using CJ repair me once a week (no DT after) with cure care on the other days and my hair is better than ever.

NocurlB4babies · 05-14-2012, 08:34 AM

I probably don't have any unique advice that hasn't already been mentioned. This is a great site and I've learned SO much from these ladies! My hair is baby fine, but I have lots of it...so the volume isn't as much of an issue...but holding the curl is. I do find that I need a harder hold gel/ and I usually add a bit of BHRG also to form a gel cast as it's drying. Like you, I diffuse upside down and that works great for me. I've tried several curl creams (AGRecoil for example), but anything that makes my hair 'softer' is not a good thing. Protein treatments have helped tremendously in giving my hair some strength...it feels fuller and thicker since I started doing them weekly. I can't co-wash more than a couple times a week. I low-poo and use GVCond. Balm from Sallys as a rinse out. This is just enough conditioning and it doesn't weigh me down. When I co-wash, I use Tresemme Radiant Volume and on those days I just add a little leave in conditioner. I've never done a deep treatment either, just leaving a rich conditioner on for a minute or so is enough for me. It takes some experimenting, but once you figure out what makes your hair happy, it does get easier. I know most curlies on here don't use hairspray, but for my fine hair it's a must.

lazyloops · 05-14-2012, 10:10 AM

Okay, I did it. I ordered some spendy stuff instead of the drug store stuff.

Jessicurl Deep Conditioning Treatment
Scent: Island Fantasy

Jessicurl Rockin' Ringlets Styling Potion
Scent: Island Fantasy

Curl Junkie Daily Fix Cleansing Conditioner

I'm done buying products for a while. Sheesh!