uncontrollable 2b/2c hair

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Help me!! I'm having so much trouble finding a way to wear my hair down.

The background: I have 2c hair (thick, frizzy, resistant to product, 2a underlayer) with 2b tendencies (falls flat, sticks close to head). For the past two years I have cut my hair super short (the big chop), rarely ever used heat on it, worn protective hairstyles, rid myself of sulfates and silicones (they created such damage in the past), and constantly moisturized my hair. By all intensive purposes I feel like I'm doing everything I can to keep my hair happy and healthy.

The problem: Not matter how much I baby my hair, Whenever I attempt to wear my hair curly it frizzes uncontrollably and loses shape. I've tried serums, oils, and leave in conditioners. I've introduced gels and mousses into my hair regimine and all they do is leave crunch. When I rid myself of the crunch (with pomades or oil) my hair frizzes even more and falls flat. I'm in love with volume and have tried blow drying with a diffuser, but the results only last short term. I can't get through an entire day with my hair down.

The plea:I'm in absolute love with wearing my hair down. The first thing I do when I get home: let my hair down. This love/ hate relationship with my hair is wearing on me though. It's coming to the point that I may just stop this curly girl dream and straighten my hair from now on. PLEASE HELP ME!! I feel like I have tried everything to manage my hair. I'm looking for a new routine or a way to do my hair. I'm so tired of wearing it up!!!!!! No more updos!!!!!!
I don't have an answer, but I am in the same boat. I decided my natural curl.....it just isn't attractive. I have way too many curl patterns, from 2a to 2c on top and 3a to 3b under. If it was reversed I'd be happier. But I started to use a curl wand on a few pieces on the canopy and its so much better, as it matches the underneath better. I follow cg product wise, but otherwise I can't. I am going to try to only do this a couple times a week, I have got to figure out 2nd day hair. Good luck!

Sent from my DROID3 using CurlTalk App
2c, some straight pieces on canopy, curlier underneath. Fine, thin, unsure on porosity - sent in my sample and waiting to hear back. Products - have a bunch I am trying out, CJ, Deva, SM Yucca, TJ.
It's nice to know I'm not the only one. I feel like my natural curls just aren't attractive enough either. I hate to use heat, but wearing my hair up 24/7 just isn't working for me anymore.
I think it's really hard to be in between simple waves and ringlets/spirals. It's tough to deal when your hair just doesn't "go" with each other.
First of all, I think it's okay if you just don't like it and do whatever you want! If you moisturize your hair well, frizzy or straightened, that's a good thing. I do believe you can have healthy hair and heat style (sssh!).
I was going to suggest gel, put in yor hair soaking wet. I know you said you get crunch, but that's normal too. Try scrunching it out from underneath with no oil or serum. If you find the right gel, you can probably avoid frizz. I have hair that isn't so much frizzy as fluffy and loses shape if its messed with too much. For me, biosilk gel really does the job. It's SUPER crunchy after drying but scrunches out to be nonexistent and very soft. If I don't put the product in whole soaking wet, though, it will just sit there and my hair looks heavy and limp.
I don't know if that helps you, I'm sorry. I think gel might be your answer, but maybe you haven't found the right one? What have you used?
curlypearl and artcurls like this.
Curly work in progress
2C with some 3A if all the stars align
Low porosity, medium to low density and fine
No sulfates since 2009
CG since 2013

In my stash:
Shampoos and conditioners- Tresemme Naturals Low Poo, Tresemme Naturals Moisturizing Aloe, Suave Naturals Coconut
Leave Ins- Kinky Curly Knot Today
Stylers- KCCC, AG Recoil, KY Lubricant (yup), SM Curl Milk
Gels- Ecostyler, Biosilk RHG
Mousse- Devacurl Uplifting Foam, Suave Captivating Curls

IT IS SO TOUGH NOT HAVINGSTRAIGHT UP CURLY OR WAVY HAIR!
The gels and mousses I canremember using include: garnier fructis pure clean styling gel, garnier fructisstyle curl spray gel, Tresemme extra hold mousse, Aussie instant freezesculpting gel, and Pantene curly spray gelÖI have used multipleother mousses in the past too, along the same brands as the gels listed.
Recently Iíve tried out L.A. lookssports gel since Iíve read such rave reviews with it being used on 2b/2c hair.So far this gel and the Tresemme mousse look best when diffused. They do givesome degree of control, but the look doesnít last. I think this may also be dueto the fact that my under layer of hair is practically straight. (sigh)
I was looking up the reviewsfor the gel you mentioned and they do look hopeful. And itís not super expensive!!Iíve never really tried gel on soaking wet hair (just damp). Itís definitely a tip I WILL try!
Lately, Iíve been looking intocurl defining creams too. I hope to bring out more of the wave in my natural hairand lessen the curls I do have. Maybe this will better help my hair to have a similar consistancy throughout. I bought Líoreal evercurl sculpt and holdcream-gel today.

artcurls likes this.
I'm fairly new to this myself but I will say that my hair has responded incredibly well to the Biosilk (Rock Hard Gelee). And yeah, the soaking wet hair thing for me was HUGE. Instant change in my hair when I do that, no matter what product I use.
Curly work in progress
2C with some 3A if all the stars align
Low porosity, medium to low density and fine
No sulfates since 2009
CG since 2013

In my stash:
Shampoos and conditioners- Tresemme Naturals Low Poo, Tresemme Naturals Moisturizing Aloe, Suave Naturals Coconut
Leave Ins- Kinky Curly Knot Today
Stylers- KCCC, AG Recoil, KY Lubricant (yup), SM Curl Milk
Gels- Ecostyler, Biosilk RHG
Mousse- Devacurl Uplifting Foam, Suave Captivating Curls
Do you know your hair properties? If you are putting a lot of moisture into your hair then scrunching out crunch with oils maybe you could be over conditioning. Making it too soft and then it will fall flat and fluffy, I never use product to scrunch out crunch. So maybe you could hit it with some protein and clarify? I'm no expert but what also really helps for me is too scrunch with a microfibre towel so hair is not dripping; scrunch in gel, plop for twenty mins or so while moisturising, whatever you do out the shower then remove the plop and clip the roots with jaw clips for root lift. Then I do not touch it, at all, until its completely dry and I can get rid of the crunch. Touching when wet causes major frizz for me. Then remove clips carefully. Hope this helps
I use kccc which also leaves my hair crunchy. I let it dry most of the way and I scrunch out the crunch WITH aussie awesome volume mousse. The mousse doesn't create crunch for me and the scrunching doesn't destroy my dried hair because I'm using the mousse. Basically I don't sotc without mousse. Maybe that's a thought for the frizz and definition problem. Also have you tried plopping?? Thats helped me tremendously. Just some suggestions. Also knowing your properties can help you determine the products you need. Hope this helps

Sent from my DROID RAZR using CurlTalk App
Mostly 2B with 2C elements and quite a few random 3A corkscrews in my underneath layer. Re-tested my hair porosity and it is now low. I have fairly dense, medium thick hair.

Use: Shea Moisture Raw shampoo and conditioner, co-wash w/ suave naturals coconut, aussie ausome volume mousse and Herbal essence totally twisted gel.
CurvyWhitelyMess, I got your PM. I responded, so check your inbox.
Hair Properties: 2A/2B, Medium-fine, Normal porosity, Normal elasticity, Medium density
Low Poo: DevaCare, Yes to Cuc's
Rinse Out: DevaCare One Condition, Yes to Cuc's
Cowash: Suave Naturals Lavender, Yes to Carrots Scalp Conditioner
Curl Cream: AG ReCoil, Organix Moroccan Oil Curl Cream
Gel/Mousse: Sweet Curls Elixirs FSG w/ Mag Sulfate added, Sweet Curls Elixirs hard hold gel, DevaCurl Frizz Free Foam, Aquage Uplifting Foam
Protein: Spiral Solutions Protein Spray for daily use
Do you know your hair properties? If you are putting a lot of moisture into your hair then scrunching out crunch with oils maybe you could be over conditioning. Making it too soft and then it will fall flat and fluffy, I never use product to scrunch out crunch. So maybe you could hit it with some protein and clarify?
Originally Posted by sammyantha
+1

The most important thing you can do is figure out your hair's properties. Its properties will tell you how you should be taking care of it, mostly with regards to the moisture/protein balance that you need. If you have been taking special care of your hair, but only adding moisture and not enough protein, this could lead to limp, soft, frizzy hair. Likewise, if you are protein sensitive or are giving your hair too much protein, this could cause lack of definition and some frizzies (though for me, my hair with too much protein is never "limp," it's more just "wild").

Some of us also have problems with buildup from ingredients other than silicones, such as polyquats. This could also be a contributing factor, especially if your hair feels heavy and limp rather than flyaway and limp.

Live Curly Live Free - Curly Hair Basics is a really good place to start when figuring out your hair properties. Once you figure them out, look in people's signatures to find others with similar properties. Check out what works for them -- it's likely to work well for you.
2b/c, high density
fine, medium porosity, normal elasticity
loves protein, hates polyquats
still searching for HGs
My hair is kind of like this naturally too. I also used to keep my hair cut short to deal with it, but I found some products my hair likes and now I'm growing my wavy hair a bit longer. I've learnt to appreciate it. There is hope!

Finding out your hair properties (meaning texture, porosity, elasticity - not curl/wave pattern) is the best way to go, and it can be useful to find out what people with the same hair properties as you use/do successfully.

BUTÖ a word of cautionÖ

You can get your own properties wrong! People do and I was one of them. And there is no way to tell from someone's signature whether the properties they have written there are correct either! So you can end up playing a very hit-and-miss game with mismatched information. And that's without even considering water hardness and climate...

If you don't mind possibly having a lot of trial and error trying dozens of products, then that's okay. But if you want to start off with a bit more certainty, I'd recommend having the hair analysis from Live Curly Live Free done and then looking at http://pinterest.com/curlwhisperer/ for product ideas for your texture. This would narrow down the field and point you more in the right direction from the beginning.
It would be helpful if you told us your styling methods. Like, what do you do to your hair in the shower? Do you comb or finger detangle? When are you applying your products (right after showering, waiting a while, getting water out of your hair). Do you use a leave-in? What order do you put the products in? How do you get water out of your hair? How long do you leave your hair before diffusing? You aren't brushing it, right? Product application is just as important as the products that you use. So, just write up a typical styling day for you. A picture might help too.

Hair properties are important to know. Also, some people's hair doesn't respond well to oil and pomades. Maybe try using as few products a possible (Like, just a leave in and gel/mousse to start with), and see how your hair deals with those products. Scrunch out the crunch with dry hands.
bosanbo likes this.
Fine Texture, Normal Porosity, Normal Elasticity. Dyed to brown a few months ago.
Lowpoo:
Trader Joe's TTT Shampoo
Rinse Out:
Yes to Carrots, AOHR, Aubrey Organics Rosemary Peppermint
LI: Yes to Carrots
Stylers: Shea Moisture Curl Enhancing Smoothie, LA Looks Sports, Suave Professionals Captivating Curls Whipped Mousse
+1 to Rainboe above. My hair hates oils/pomades. They somehow make it greasy and frizzy at the same time. Other than that, I too am curious about your hair properties and current hair routine... Hope we can help!
I sort of blog
I'm mostly away doing field work through mid-May.

Hair: curlybob, fine, dense, low-po, big waves/ringlets (2C/3A)
Co-Wash: Nature's Gate Herbal Conditioner
RO: YTC Carrot, Aubrey Organics GPB
LI: BS Shea Soft Styling Cream (HG)
Styling: KCCC, Garnier P&C Gel
1xWeek: low-poo, gelatin PT or Joico K-Pak
Hair Likes: aloe, coconut oil, humidity, protein, long walks on the beach
+1 to Rainboe above. My hair hates oils/pomades. They somehow make it greasy and frizzy at the same time. Other than that, I too am curious about your hair properties and current hair routine... Hope we can help!
Originally Posted by bosanbo
Yeah, oils and pomaded do the same thing to my hair. It just turns undefined and takes curl out. I don't think my hair absorbs them well. I do ok with some creams though.
Fine Texture, Normal Porosity, Normal Elasticity. Dyed to brown a few months ago.
Lowpoo:
Trader Joe's TTT Shampoo
Rinse Out:
Yes to Carrots, AOHR, Aubrey Organics Rosemary Peppermint
LI: Yes to Carrots
Stylers: Shea Moisture Curl Enhancing Smoothie, LA Looks Sports, Suave Professionals Captivating Curls Whipped Mousse
For years I've tried products on and off. The regimen I use in between to keep my hair healthy is:

Note: I wash my hair about twice a week; every three days or so.

1. I shampoo with Burt's Bees baby shampoo and wash (it's AMAZING without stripping my hair of all the natural oils)
2. I condition with Burt's Bees More Moisture conditioner (again, WONDERFUL).
-While the conditioner is in my hair I use my fingers to get through knots and then use a wide tooth shower comb to go through it at the end to ensure I have none.
3. After I shower I squeeze my hair (not wringing it) to get as much water out as possible.
4. I immediately put it up in a cotton t-shirt (It's cheap and I dislike terri-cloth on my hair). That takes out a lot of the excess water I may have missed.
-I leave that in for maybe fifteen minutes or so (I have thick hair and it takes forever to dry it).
5. Right after I put in Cantu leave-in conditioner. At this point (if it's still a little knotted) I will use the wide tooth comb to gently go through my hair again.

Because I don't have any go-to styling products that work great on me yet, I just put it up in a protective bun while it dries.

I don't know what type of properties my hair has just yet. Thank you guys so much for mentioning finding out!!! I have definitely been looking into it. I have learned that oils do tend to drag my hair down though.The other day I accidently used to much serum and oh, was it bad.

ALSO! I did try the cream gel I mentioned previously. It definitely did help my curl to be lighter, but it produced so much frizz. I need more hold, but not too much.

Anyone try a good product lately with the hold between a gel/mousse and a cream?
heyho!

I looked into the website you suggested and the hair analysis and I think it's something I'm definitely interested in. Thank you!
1. I shampoo with Burt's Bees baby shampoo and wash (it's AMAZING without stripping my hair of all the natural oils)
2. I condition with Burt's Bees More Moisture conditioner (again, WONDERFUL).
-While the conditioner is in my hair I use my fingers to get through knots and then use a wide tooth shower comb to go through it at the end to ensure I have none.
Originally Posted by CurvyWhirlyMess
Finger combing might be enough to get the knots out. Some people needs to comb though, and I get that. After you comb it, be sure to get it really wet during rinsing. You don't want the combing to make it flat.

3. After I shower I squeeze my hair (not wringing it) to get as much water out as possible.
What kind of motion are you using? Do you scrunch out the water? I would try putting in leave-in and possible gel at this point, where your hair is very wet. You might have to use more than usual because your hair is so wet. At this point I usually rake leave in through my hair with my hands, to lock in the moisture that's in my hair and stop it from drying in places and becoming fizzy. I don't think I would manipulate my hair too much without a leave-in in it, because leave-in kind of keeps my hair calm and together.

4. I immediately put it up in a cotton t-shirt (It's cheap and I dislike terri-cloth on my hair). That takes out a lot of the excess water I may have missed.
-I leave that in for maybe fifteen minutes or so (I have thick hair and it takes forever to dry it).
Are you plopping it, or are you twisting it into the shirt? Twisting would discourage curl formation. Also, it's really possible that you're taking too much water out of your hair. Maybe you should put it in the t-shirt of less time. If you want it to form clumps instead of frizzing out, than you want the hair to be wet enough to be sticking to other strands of hair. Curly hair needs water. Do you notice that you hair is already drying and frizzing when you're doing your routine?

5. Right after I put in Cantu leave-in conditioner. At this point (if it's still a little knotted) I will use the wide tooth comb to gently go through my hair again.
I feel like if your hair is only damp here instead of wet, that could be causing frizz and not allowing good product distribution. Also, I wouldn't comb your hair again. You can cause frizz by manipulating it too much.

Because I don't have any go-to styling products that work great on me yet, I just put it up in a protective bun while it dries.
Doesn't this make it take forever to dry? Obviously if you want to wear it curly, you should probably wear it down while it dries, but I'm interpreting this as you just wearing it up all day right?

ALSO! I did try the cream gel I mentioned previously. It definitely did help my curl to be lighter, but it produced so much frizz. I need more hold, but not too much.
At what point in your routine did you put in the gel? Putting it in wetter hair might help it work better and reduce frizz.
bosanbo likes this.
Fine Texture, Normal Porosity, Normal Elasticity. Dyed to brown a few months ago.
Lowpoo:
Trader Joe's TTT Shampoo
Rinse Out:
Yes to Carrots, AOHR, Aubrey Organics Rosemary Peppermint
LI: Yes to Carrots
Stylers: Shea Moisture Curl Enhancing Smoothie, LA Looks Sports, Suave Professionals Captivating Curls Whipped Mousse

Last edited by rainboe; 04-03-2013 at 12:04 PM.
So, I've been thinking about what a few of you wavies have been advising me. And I experienced some success!!!

When I got out of the shower the other night I gently squeezed my hair to get the water out (pretty normal). I then decided not to plop as I normally would!

Also, I chose not to use my wide tooth comb (in the shower or out). I put my leave-in conditioner and mousse in my hair when it was wet and afterward I used my fingers to detangle. I then used the shirt I normally plop with to squeeze excess water out of my hair. Because of the product in my hair, it didn't frizz up dramatically.

Afterward I pineapple my hair (kind of). I put a small bun at the top of my head (to prevent the ends of my hair from touching my neck), with the majority of it hanging down.

In the morning most of my hair was dry (except the bun). I blow dried the bun while it was up. When I took my hair down, it was wonderful!!!

Very little frizz. The crunch was practically gone! As well, I was still able to gain volume because the mousse dried at my roots with my hair up.

Yeah....it was a pretty good day. =)
bosanbo likes this.
heyho!

I looked into the website you suggested and the hair analysis and I think it's something I'm definitely interested in. Thank you!
Originally Posted by CurvyWhirlyMess
You're welcome! Knowledge is power Glad you're getting good results already with your routine change.
Glad it's working better! I also peeked at the ingredients of the products you said you use, and I saw a few that can (for some people) cause hair woes. You said you love your shampoo, etc., though, so I'm not telling you to stop using it. Just pointing out things that may or may not contribute to frizz:

Glycerin - This is a humectant, which creates a kind magnet for moisture, which is fine if your hair and the air are moist, but if your hair is moister than the air (a dry day or climate), it can pull moisture OUT of your hair. Some people find that makes frizz for them. Coco glucoside is another humectant.

Soy protein, jojoba protein - On the off chance your hair dislikes protein, this could obviously cause frizz.

Oils - The conditioner is heavy on oils. If it were my hair, I know it wouldn't be good, but your hair seems to like it. Just bear it in mind if you start feeling overmoisturized, and maybe switch to a lighter one for a while.

Oops... found something: in addition to more protein, glycerin, and oils (including lanolin, which is really heavy in my experience), the Cantu has polyquats. From Perry Romanowski of The Beauty Brains: "Curlies should be much more concerned about Polyquats than silicones. Polyquats are positively charged polymers that effectively stick to the damaged sites on hair. They make the hair feel smooth and soft but they can also build up with repeated use resulting in flatter, less lively curls. They can even be more difficult to remove than even Dimethicone. The most problematic polyquat is Polyquaternium-10. While it is the most effective at conditioning hair, it is also the most likely to build-up. Better choices include Polyquaternium-7 or Guar Hydroxpropyltrimonium Chloride."

The Cantu also has a -cone, too: Trimethylsilylamodimethicone

These two ingredients are not going to come off your hair without shampoo. You use one, so that's neither here nor there, but it is something to keep in mind if you start co-washing. I would also be suspicious of them coming off entirely, every time, and they might cause build-up for you. I don't know; I've just washed my hands so many times and had them feel greasy anyway, I assume the same can happen to my hair.

I dunno which cream gel you meant, but there's some stuff to get you started on maybe figuring out what your hair likes, dislikes, etc.!

Also, I don't think you need to pay for a hair analysis... I sure didn't. The fine-ness of it was apparent enough, and the squeak test (for porosity) worked like a charm for me. I do think those are two pretty easy things to spot, though, so I don't know how hard it is to tell what "normal" hair width or porosity is, etc.

Good luck!
I sort of blog
I'm mostly away doing field work through mid-May.

Hair: curlybob, fine, dense, low-po, big waves/ringlets (2C/3A)
Co-Wash: Nature's Gate Herbal Conditioner
RO: YTC Carrot, Aubrey Organics GPB
LI: BS Shea Soft Styling Cream (HG)
Styling: KCCC, Garnier P&C Gel
1xWeek: low-poo, gelatin PT or Joico K-Pak
Hair Likes: aloe, coconut oil, humidity, protein, long walks on the beach

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