Protein Balance & Frizz?

dinoRAWRSyou · 05-14-2013, 08:50 AM

So about 2 weeks ago I found out the hard way that I'm very protein-sensitive... at the recommendation of several others plus lurking signatures here, I decided to try a PT. The best way I can describe what it did was it blew out my hair... no life, rough strands, frizz for days. Because of that, I quickly put my hair on a no-protein diet and it *seemed* like it was getting better. I also changed my LI condish and got a microfiber towel to scrunch. Now, no matter what I do, even if my hair is wet/damp after a shower, it's frizzy! The only time it's not frizzy now is when it's soaking wet in the shower.

Here's my current routine:

-Cowash with Suave Naturals (Ocean Breeze)
-R/O is GVPCB, which I comb through in the shower
-Once a week, I do a DT with my Giovanni 2chic and leave it under a shower cap for a few minutes
-L/I is L'oreal ES Humidity Defying LI Creme
-After my shower, I smooth my stylers in; like, making a ponytail with very wet hair and gently squeezing as I smooth product down the length to get the product through everything
-Scrunch with a microfiber towel (this may be the culprit as I used to scrunch with t-shirts)
-Air dry with as little touching as possible

I'm thinking that it's either my L/I or the microfiber towel, but can anyone help me out? Do I need to add a little protein back to my routine? Or am I still undoing what I did with that stupid PT? I'm just frustrated because my hair was playing so nice for a while and now it's just being silly.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Trick · 05-14-2013, 11:18 AM

I always feel like I'm in the minority, but microfiber did NOTHING for my hair -- maybe they aren't all like this but mine still had little nubby thingies that grabbed my hair strands just like a terrycloth towel. T-shirts were working, but when I got tired of hunting around for shirts to sacrifice for my hair I got flour sack towels (Target & Walmart both have them in the kitchen towel area) and they have been pretty wonderful.

I highly recommend trying something that isn't microfiber, especially if you've had some luck with t-shirts before.

Firefox7275 · 05-14-2013, 02:53 PM

Not getting on with an intensive protein treatment doesn't make you very protein sensitive, you are protein sensitive if you cannot use any protein at all even in fairly small amounts.

What are the ingredients of all your conditioners? The only Giovanni 2chic I can find is a protein conditioner and does not appear to be an intensive treatment anyway? And your L'Oreal sounds like it actively blocks moisture out. What absorbable oils do you use? Are any of your conditioners rich in fatty alcohols and depositing cationic surfactants?

Have you tried shampooing? As I understand it t-shirts are gentler than many microfibre towels, better for hair that is damaged or easily dried out.

kathymack · 05-15-2013, 11:27 AM

My hair doesn't care for microfiber towels, either. Make it frizz. I've used cheaper towels that were given away by my local gas station and the more expensive Aquis towels. Didn't make a difference.

Curls Like Us and Curlease are nice. If you don't want to spend a lot of money, you can get flour sack towels. They okay, but not as nice as the other two.

dinoRAWRSyou · 05-17-2013, 08:11 AM

@Firefox: The PT was kind of just the final determinant for me... I *might* play around a bit more but as far as I can understand my hair dislikes protein the the point that even things that are coconut/aloe/etc. (only act like proteins) still give me issues sometimes. I use the Giovanni 2Chic Avocado & Olive Oil, and the ingredients are:

Aqua (Purified Water), Glycerin, Cetyl Alcohol, Caprylic/Capric Triglyceride, Stearyl Alcohol, Cetearyl Alcohol, Guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium Chloride, Panthenol (Pro-Vitamin B-5), Phenoxyethanol, Citric Acid, Chlorophyllin-Copper Complex, Fragrance, *Aloe Barbadensis (Aloe Vera) Leaf Juice, *Persea Gratissima (Avocado) Oil, *Litchi (Lychee) Chinensis Fruit Extract, *Oleo Europaea (Olive) Fruit Oil,*Chenopodium Quinoa Flower/Leaf Extract, *Butyrospermum Parkii (Shea) Butter, *Helianthus Annuus (Sunflower) Seed Oil, Sodium Benzoate. USDA Certified Organic

(Genius me, just noticed the aloe in it!)

It looked to be more of a deep conditioner than what I was using but it very well may not be. I think part of it is I heard somewhere that too heavy of a DC could ruin my waves since my hair is kind of fine? So I kind of strayed from something that seemed too heavy

My R/O I also believe is protein-free, as is my cowash. I'm wondering though, if I need to change my L/I, as it seems to be causing issues. For absorbing oils, I was using coconut, but stopped when my hair decided to do... whatever it's doing, as I've read that coconut can act as a protein. I might try introducing it back (as the one time I left it on overnight my hair seemed amazing the next day, if I remember correctly).

I've been strictly cowash since I started CG, but I did try low-pooing once... but again, coconut (among other things). I got the Organix coconut but seeing as it has coconut, milk, and silk proteins, which I think may have played havoc on my waves as well.

So all-in-all, I'm still not actually sure how my hair feels about protein! I may invest in a new L/I and give it a go, or try re-introducing some things... I might give the shampoo another shot, as a once-weekly low-poo could be nice if I do need a little protein

Firefox7275 · 05-17-2013, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dinoRAWRSyou

@Firefox: The PT was kind of just the final determinant for me... I *might* play around a bit more but as far as I can understand my hair dislikes protein the the point that even things that are coconut/aloe/etc. (only act like proteins) still give me issues sometimes. I use the Giovanni 2Chic Avocado & Olive Oil, and the ingredients are:

Aqua (Purified Water), Glycerin, Cetyl Alcohol, Caprylic/Capric Triglyceride, Stearyl Alcohol, Cetearyl Alcohol, Guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium Chloride, Panthenol (Pro-Vitamin B-5), Phenoxyethanol, Citric Acid, Chlorophyllin-Copper Complex, Fragrance, *Aloe Barbadensis (Aloe Vera) Leaf Juice, *Persea Gratissima (Avocado) Oil, *Litchi (Lychee) Chinensis Fruit Extract, *Oleo Europaea (Olive) Fruit Oil,*Chenopodium Quinoa Flower/Leaf Extract, *Butyrospermum Parkii (Shea) Butter, *Helianthus Annuus (Sunflower) Seed Oil, Sodium Benzoate. USDA Certified Organic

(Genius me, just noticed the aloe in it!)

It looked to be more of a deep conditioner than what I was using but it very well may not be. I think part of it is I heard somewhere that too heavy of a DC could ruin my waves since my hair is kind of fine? So I kind of strayed from something that seemed too heavy

My R/O I also believe is protein-free, as is my cowash. I'm wondering though, if I need to change my L/I, as it seems to be causing issues. For absorbing oils, I was using coconut, but stopped when my hair decided to do... whatever it's doing, as I've read that coconut can act as a protein. I might try introducing it back (as the one time I left it on overnight my hair seemed amazing the next day, if I remember correctly).

I've been strictly cowash since I started CG, but I did try low-pooing once... but again, coconut (among other things). I got the Organix coconut but seeing as it has coconut, milk, and silk proteins, which I think may have played havoc on my waves as well.

So all-in-all, I'm still not actually sure how my hair feels about protein! I may invest in a new L/I and give it a go, or try re-introducing some things... I might give the shampoo another shot, as a once-weekly low-poo could be nice if I do need a little protein

I don't know where the coconut oil and aloe acting like proteins thing comes from that is not a universal truth by any means. Aloe is a humectant so it attracts water, it can be drying if used excessively or in the wrong climate but it does not penetrate. Coconut oil is a rich source of fatty acids, can penetrate and repels water. Hydrolysed proteins can penetrate, can act as humectants, protein that has not been hydrolysed does not penetrate so it's not a homogenous group.

Coconut milk does not behave the same as coconut oil. TBH there looks to be barely any coconut milk or coconut oil in Organix conditioner anyway, there are more silicones and glycerin so they are far more likely culprits, both can kill curl in some people. With two silicones it is not a suitable co-wash product nor CG friendly anyway. Organix contains silk aminos not protein or polypeptides, these are water soluble so should not in any way build up.

Also with the Giovanni, the aloe is miles down the ingredient list it is even below the fragrance, there really is barely any in there. Glycerin on the other hand is the second ingredient, are you sure it's not glycerin that is causing you problems? One common suggestion is to focus on the first five ingredients to determine what is in a product since those are by far the bulk. The next four ingredients after glycerin are fatty alcohols/ lipids, not really much that will penetrate it will certainly coat the surface and protect any damaged areas, they could weigh curls down if you have fine hair or a weak curl pattern. The avocado and olive oils would penetrate but there is barely any present.

Any active compound used to excess or in the wrong balance can cause problems, 'excess and balance' varying from person to person depending on porosity, damage, climate etc. My porous/ damaged hair adores coconut oil and it makes my waves bouncier and curlier, the only time I have problems with limpness or greasiness is if I fail to cleanse the excess out properly. My hair also likes aloe in balance with fatty alcohols and lipids, tolerates hardcore protein treatments only occasionally because it is easily dried out. I find heavy and rich are two separate linked properties: my hair loves rich (certain oils, humectants, cationic surfactants) but it doesn't like heavy (eg. certain butters, excessive fatty alcohols).

HTH!

dinoRAWRSyou · 05-17-2013, 12:08 PM

@Firefox; Maybe I misunderstood, then. I've looked a variety of different places and it turns out that the comparison between coconut and protein normally comes in the ability to penetrate the hair shaft... aloe vera seems to contain small amount of proteins as it is a plant byproduct but it does seem kind of hit-or-miss with protein-sensitive curlies.

Oh, with the Organix shampoo, it's not coconut milk, it's coconut oil and milk protein, but they are at the bottom so I suppose it would be kind of a non-issue. I only saw one 'cone but as best I understand it is water-soluble (dimethicone copolyol), but it did have a sulfate (sodium C14-16 olefin sulfonate) so that may have caused an issue... I read somewhere that all the Organix shampoos were CG-friendly and forgot to even read the ingredients... d'oh!

My wave pattern is flip-floppity on whether or not it wants to behave, but my hair is pretty low porosity, so anything like a fatty acid does not sound like my friend. I'm so glad you pointed it out because for some reason I never would have thought to check glycerin... but it's in top five on the Giovanni and my L/I, so it might be the culprit; I'll phase those two products out and see how it goes.

So, as of now, I'm going to try switching my L/I back to my SheaM Styling Milk -- it has silk protein but no glycerin and I don't recall having issues with it. I'm also going to try throwing some coconut oil back in the mix and perhaps take a closer look at ingredients and then add in a low-poo

Thank you, thank you, thank you for all of your help!

Firefox7275 · 05-18-2013, 06:58 AM

You are welcome! Aloe does not necessarily contain any protein: whole leaf may do, standardised inner leaf gel should not. Even if there is a little protein, I highly doubt it's anywhere near enough to cause a problem I think it far more likely the polysaccharides are too strong a humectant for some people/ climates.

Don't beat yourself up about not reading ingredients, I didn't for decades and I have NO excuse. My work background is pharmacy/ lifestyle healthcare so I read ingredients on food items (obsessively!) and have the ability to understand cosmetic product ingredients with a little effort. I also recently purchased a reformulated conditioner containing a silicone and then wondered why my hair went lank and stringy, double doh!!

PomegranateCurl · 05-18-2013, 08:45 AM

If you're getting frizz while wet that could be polyquat buildup. Check your products. You may need to clarify.

asianrunner · 05-19-2013, 10:12 AM

When I had frizz with wet hair I had product buildup. After doing a sulfate wash it went away!