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-   -   2c waves when wet/damp , getting looser when dry (http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/2/160577-2c-waves-when-wet-damp-getting-looser-when-dry.html)

TamLin 07-16-2013 06:38 PM

2c waves when wet/damp , getting looser when dry
 
My hair when wet and styled with gel is 2c, but as it dries it seems to get looser and looser, and the roots get flatter as well. Today I tried clipping and using more gel , which worked until my hair was about 70% dry. I got more lift/wave intially, but I scrunched out the crunch once my hair was 90% dry and my waves have fallen to a almost 2a now and the roots are deflating. I'm wondering if it the products I'm using. My hair feels very soft and moisturized, not particularly limp or anything, from over conditioning. I used L.A. Looks sport gel today, and quite a bit. I like the way it looks, but I would also like my hair to have dried the way it looked before it went flat.

Anyway, I expect lots of wavies have this problem, is that just normal? Or have you guys been able to hold your waves at their maximum waviness with different products/methods or avoiding certain ingredients in styling products? I was also thinking of buying a diffuser to speed up drying time. It seems like a part of the problem is my hair is waist length without layers and it is quite heavy when wet.

Thanks for reading!:wink:

nicki.hallen 07-16-2013 10:46 PM

I have very fine hair with very thin density. My waves fall completely flat if I don't pixie diffuse all the way dry. Try diffusing and try doing it to different amounts of dry. Also do you plop? Or use mousse?

TamLin 07-17-2013 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nicki.hallen (Post 2191744)
I have very fine hair with very thin density. My waves fall completely flat if I don't pixie diffuse all the way dry. Try diffusing and try doing it to different amounts of dry. Also do you plop? Or use mousse?

Good idea with the diffusing... Do you recommend a brand of blow dryer/diffuser combo? I don't have one yet.

I have tried plopping but it makes my roots like like a pancake...or like I was wearing a hat as my hair was drying, haha! It does help the wave alot... the more time I spend upside down, the better the wave, it seems.

I've never tried mousse out very long, in the past it seemed to make my hair dry, but I am open to trying again.

I am kind of concluding my hair might be on the finer side because it gets weighed down SO easily with most things I use it and falls flat. I can over-condition it very easily (Even though it is still actually still dry on the damaged parts? like dry and limp), and it goes limp more often than not. I used to attribute that to my hair being heavy, but perhaps it is really the opposite! I never thought about having fine hair, but I don't really have much to compare it to either.

I find myself wishing it looked thicker than it does (Even though it is not thin), but hairdressers/ my mom has always said it is SO thick when they handle it. To me, when I have been trying the CG method the past week or so, it look wavier, but also flatter and thinner somehow. I'm not used to putting product or intense conditioner in my hair, so I'm thinking it is weighing it down a whole lot.

Firefox7275 07-17-2013 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TamLin (Post 2191658)
My hair when wet and styled with gel is 2c, but as it dries it seems to get looser and looser, and the roots get flatter as well. Today I tried clipping and using more gel , which worked until my hair was about 70% dry. I got more lift/wave intially, but I scrunched out the crunch once my hair was 90% dry and my waves have fallen to a almost 2a now and the roots are deflating. I'm wondering if it the products I'm using. My hair feels very soft and moisturized, not particularly limp or anything, from over conditioning. I used L.A. Looks sport gel today, and quite a bit. I like the way it looks, but I would also like my hair to have dried the way it looked before it went flat.

Anyway, I expect lots of wavies have this problem, is that just normal? Or have you guys been able to hold your waves at their maximum waviness with different products/methods or avoiding certain ingredients in styling products? I was also thinking of buying a diffuser to speed up drying time. It seems like a part of the problem is my hair is waist length without layers and it is quite heavy when wet.

Thanks for reading!:wink:

What are your hair properties, dew points/ humidity and full routine?

Waist length hair is always going to be pulled out unless you support more of the weight whilst it is drying, some pile their hair into a hoodie or use Curly Hair Solutions roller jaw clamps. Why are you scrunching out the crunch when your hair is not fully dry? Leave it as long as possible, way after you think it is bone dry if you can.
Root Volume for Curly Girls - YouTube

Ingredients that can help boost curl include coconut oil, honey, hydrolysed protein and magnesium sulphate (epsom salts). Coconut oil is particularly good for porous or damaged hair, hydrolysed protein especially good for fine or damaged hair. Too many humectants in your conditioner and stylers can cause hair to hold too much water and flop. IMO the right leave in conditioner is as or more important than a hard hold styling product for curl shape and retention.

chupie 07-17-2013 09:27 AM

Yeah sounds like me. No matter what I am 2a by bedtime. However if I really pump it up in the a.m. And let it BONE DRY after 90% diffusing and DON'T touch after SOTC (must be BONE DRY before SOTC) it'll last pretty well.

Key points:

Diffuse
Then let BONE DRY before SOTC
Do not fuss or play with it after SOTC

TamLin 07-17-2013 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firefox7275 (Post 2191822)
What are your hair properties, dew points/ humidity and full routine?

Hair properties, atm I think:

Roots are fine (but not super fine), hair with henna/indigo is medium (also much drier)

My ponytail circumference is 4", so I am guessing medium/high density.

As for porosity, I am not sure. I use product with protein sometimes,and I don't seem to have any issues. If I do the test where you run your finger up the length of a strand, it feels rubbery, not rough, but rubbery and makes a noise. It actually feels more rubbery on the the virgin strands.

As for styling, I prefer to low-poo at least once a week, but will co-wash... I tend to co-wash my hair every day almost, because I don't like the way it looks on 2nd day... it just seems to get drier and drier the longer I go without washing it, while the roots get very oily.

I was using SheaMoisture's Moisture Retention shampoo the past couple days, and it worked well making my hair very soft and extremely shiny. But, my virgin hair is usually soft and extremely shiny. I was wondering if I should stop using it as I feel it might be too heavy for my hair.

I am using Tresemme Naturals as a RO, and have been trying SheaMoisture's Curl Smoothie as a leave-in (has protein in it)... only a little bit, made a quarter size, and only on my ends which get very parched and are rough. It seems to keep them softer.

I scrunch my gel in when my hair is still dripping wet and help dry it by crunching it with a tee shirt after that. I also have been clipping my roots/sides for lift. That has helped a bit. I can see my hair get super wavy like this, but then it seems to collapse. As I recall, when my hair was lightly layered but still long it seemed to be able to wave more consistently and easily, so I don't know if that say anything.

I have been trying the L.A. Looks sports gel, and it doesn't seem to be drying my hair out as long as I use a leave-in... without a leave-in it seems to make my hair fizzy and dry, though.

As far as SOTC, I tend to do it to soon because I don't like the way it looks/feels as it is drying! Bad habit, I suppose, but I didn't know letting it get super dry first would make a difference. I will have to diffuse, I think because my hair takes hours and hours and hours to dry completely when it has a lot of leave-in/gel in it. I have equated using a lot with good hold/waves. I get definition, but it also seems to make my hair look dull and kind of wet/and or greasy/limp instead of bouncy and shiny. I think that is partially due to the indigo, though.

I'm not really satisfied with the routine as it is... I think my RO is ok, and I will probably continue to low-poo.... but I want to find a gel that is very water-y and lightweight instead of goopy like the L.A.looks. Seems to make my hair heavy when I use it, but I don't know if a water-y gel with excellent hold exists?


edit: Forgot to mention dew points. I live in Austin, Texas most of the year, and here is pictures of the average dew points:

http://fs.weatherspark.com.s3.amazon...perature_f.png

Right now, the dew points seem to consistently be in the 70s, and I think in the summer that is typical. Haven't been here long enough to know about winter, but obviously, it is dryer.

TamLin 07-17-2013 12:37 PM

Now I'm remember I used a protein heavy conditioner a while ago, Aubrey's Organics GPB conditioner, and it made my hair look and feel terrible. It was beyond tangled and dry as a bone. Didn't even look like my hair after I used it. That was before I dyed it, though.

Firefox7275 07-17-2013 01:04 PM

Aubrey Organics does not contain hydrolysed protein, large 'whole' proteins cannot penetrate and that product is the devil to rinse for some.

Yes it does make a difference for your hair to be bone dry when you scrunch out the crunch unless you have a very strong curl pattern, not touching when hair is drying is a key part of the CG method. Sounds silly but avoid mirrors and don't touch and you won't know how your hair looks or feels! Or certainly diffuse to part dry, or experiment with longer plops.

Dews are high so limit or avoid the more potent humectants - glycerin, honey, propylene glycol, aloe vera etc. Is some AV in your conditioner IIRC, tho it's likely not causing a problem as a rinse out only.

Shea Moisture curl smoothie is a styler not a leave in conditioner, shea butter is quite heavy and can build up for some. You should be using an emollient rich conditioner - look for fatty alcohols and/ or cationic surfactants at the top of the ingredients list. Being so heavy on oils and butters that will massively slow drying time and is high risk for the greasies.

You might simply try diluting your gel down with water in small batches to get the consistency you want. Seems to me at present your gel is fighting the effects of your other styler, one potentially weighs hair down and softens the hold, the other is trying to bounce your hair back up again. IMO purchase a proper leave in conditioner and drop the Shea Moisture smoothie.

TamLin 07-17-2013 01:48 PM

Thanks for the help, I will look over the few things I have and see what the labels read in that regard.

What about gel properties... Is there something I should be looking for in a gel with my issues in mind?

I'm not so sure about hard vs. softer hold...but, I tend to think I need the hardest hold possible because of the wilting. So I guess I will have to re-evaluate!

I don't seem to have a problem with hydrolyzed protein, it shows up in a lot of products I have used in the past with good results from those products.

If I'm not sure of my porosity, should I just assume it is normal for now?

HairObsessed 07-17-2013 06:01 PM

Let me see if I can help at all for porosity.

Low - takes a long time to dry (naked hair, no product)
High - dries quickly

Low - hair doesn't wet easily
High - wets easily, quickly soaks up water and product

Low - when you run your fingers up a strand, it feels smooth (similar to when you run it down a strand), can squeak will you run fingers up a strand
High - when you run your fingers up a strand, it feels rough

The amount of time it takes your hair to dry can also be affected by density. Damaged hair also usually has high porosity. Low porosity is also typically shiny and reflects light well. High porosity tends to be duller.

You may also want to try clipping while plopping. It keeps the roots lifted but still gets the benefit of your hair being upside down.

I have a similar problem where my hair looks awesome out of the plop and then the 2b-2c waves fall back into being 2A as them dry. I attribute most of it to length of my hair pulling out the waves. I did just buy some mousse that I plan on trying for the first time since being CG. I'll let you know if it works!

HTH. :)

chloe92us 07-18-2013 06:28 AM

I love hard hold gels. LAL sports gel is hard hold, so you have the right stuff. I agree with waiting until ALL of your hair is BONE DRY to scrunch. If I SOTC too soon, it loses curl and volume. It helps to diffuse a bit. You do t have to dry it all the way, but diffusing enough so that the roots dry a bit and the heat "sets" the gel is very helpful for volume.

KauaiMareCurl 07-19-2013 04:43 AM

If I use a hard hold gel, I get 2c/3a hair, throughout the day; I've been experimenting with EcoStyler Krystal and with another gel on top of it, I get 2c/3a hair. Yesterday I revisited an old favorite (SM C&H Curl & Style Milk) as my leave-in on top of some VO5 and used only EcoStyler to style. Wet it was 2c/3a, as it dried it loosened to 2b/2c; since we had a wedding to go to, I liberally sprayed with Deva hairspray.

Pineapppled last night and this morning I have second day 2a/2b hair. I haven't had second day hair (that I felt was decent) in a LONG time. I've smoothed on a little more SM and a SM EcoStyler mix and am quite happy with it. Am guessing by day's end it will be 2a, as I LOVE touching my hair since it's so soft now that I've gone CG. Pre-CG, I was a curly, but my hair always felt stiff and sticky; if I touched it, it would frizz horribly. Touching my hair now does cause some level of frizz, but nothing like it was pre-CG (even if I hadn't touched my hair after drying, I had more frizz than I do now, after touching it all day).

Styling techniques: scrunch water out with "towel" and add product using scrunch and pump method; plop for about ten minutes; scrunch using flour sack towel; air dry.

Normal porosity, normal texture (not fine, not coarse), medium density, BSL, dew points in the 50s

This weekend, will try conditioner only styling, next week will try above product combo mix-ups again to see if can replicate. I a, a big fan of the trial and error method!

Cubanwavy 07-20-2013 10:25 PM

Wavy hair hugs the head, that's it's nature. I don't even try to get any lift/volume because it's just a fight. When my hair is wet my waves are looser and as it dries they tighten up. If I am in a super humid climate I will be frizzy all over and just have to live with it!

wavydaze 07-23-2013 08:23 PM

Hmmm... am I the only one whose hair bounces up as it dries? The S waves are lazy when wet and then spring up into tighter S waves and a few corkscrews as they dry. I wonder why my hair does this while for others, the opposite occurs.

chupie 07-23-2013 10:09 PM

I wish.

WavyRoo 07-24-2013 06:05 PM

Mine always droops:(. It looks super curly- even 3ish when it's wet right after I've let down my plop and scrunched with my flour sack towel. It starts loosing its curl as it dries regardless of hard my hold is. Then once I SOTC, it looks great for about 10 minutes, then loses its 'spring' and ultimately gets frizzy and lank.

kaykre 07-24-2013 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wavydaze (Post 2193869)
Hmmm... am I the only one whose hair bounces up as it dries? The S waves are lazy when wet and then spring up into tighter S waves and a few corkscrews as they dry. I wonder why my hair does this while for others, the opposite occurs.

Mine does this too... It looks straighter when wet and curls up as it dries.

unepetiteprune 07-26-2013 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaykre (Post 2194148)
Quote:

Originally Posted by wavydaze (Post 2193869)
Hmmm... am I the only one whose hair bounces up as it dries? The S waves are lazy when wet and then spring up into tighter S waves and a few corkscrews as they dry. I wonder why my hair does this while for others, the opposite occurs.

Mine does this too... It looks straighter when wet and curls up as it dries.

Me too!

nfraser 07-30-2013 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chupie (Post 2191863)
Yeah sounds like me. No matter what I am 2a by bedtime. However if I really pump it up in the a.m. And let it BONE DRY after 90% diffusing and DON'T touch after SOTC (must be BONE DRY before SOTC) it'll last pretty well.

Key points:

Diffuse
Then let BONE DRY before SOTC
Do not fuss or play with it after SOTC

what is "bone dry" mean?

Also, just to clarify b/c i've recently gone CG again and am having problems. How do you prevent getting crunchy hair? is it the amount of product you use, when you use it, when you scrunch?

Right now, I co-wash or low-poo. Put leave-in in when hair super wet. Scrunch a little, put gel in and scrunch while diffusing. And I ALWAYS have crunchy hair that I can't seem to scrunch out even after it's dry. It drives me nuts b/c then it just looks wiry.

Anyone have any suggestions?

Firefox7275 07-30-2013 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nfraser (Post 2195562)
what is "bone dry" mean?

Completely 100% dry.


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