what should I buy?

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  • 1 Post By WavyRoo
  • 1 Post By wavydaze

Hi ladies! Alright, so I've been mod-CG since October, and I've slowly noticed more curl and less frizz - yay! (: I'm 2a/2b, high porosity, my strands are pretty fine, but my hair is really thick! I have eczema on my scalp so I'm using t-gel for shampoo for a while, Tresseme Naturals as a co-wash, with GF Sleek & Shine LI as my leave-in. I have recently been using Devacurl Light Defining Gel, and while it gives me nice curls, it leaves my hair feeling rather dry.
I'm going to Ulta tomorrow since I'm almost out of gel and have a coupon, and I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions of a gel that wouldn't leave my hair so dry but still control frizz and give me nice waves/curls. I was thinking of possibly trying Ouidad? I'm just not sure. Any suggestions would be great! (:
Maybe try volumax mega if you want a hard hold gel?

If you're porous and fine make sure your products have protein and do some PTs!
fine - normal porosity*?- medium density - normal elasticity. Hard water. SoCal.
*Used to be low-porosity, but I lightened my hair 1-2 shades, so I may be normal-porosity now.

New climate! Current favorites:
Low-poo: CJ Gentle Cleansing Shampoo, Giovanni SaS
RO: V05 Kiwi Lime
Styler: UFD CM (old formula), FSG + CNPF
PT: CJ Repair Me, IAgirl's gelatine

Experimenting with: JC Confident Coils, JC Rockin Ringlets, CJ CIAB, gelatin gel

iherb discount code: CFN646
Which form of eczema, atopic? T-Gel is for seborrhoeic dermatitis and psoriasis, the sulphate surfactants are not recommended in atopic eczema and may be a problem in other forms of dermatitis. Aqueous Cream : National Eczema Society

For high porosity hair do coconut oil soaks, for fine or porous hair also hydrolysed protein treatments. I have porous hair and find the best frizz control comes from a gentle cleansing method (no anionic surfactants) plus the right type and amount of leave in conditioner, not the styling product.
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
Experimenting with: benign neglect
Firefox, you've made a lot of mention lately of just important a good leave-in is. How do you define a good leave-in? What ingredients should I look for or avoid and why? I'm definitely lacking in knowledge in this area- enlighten me
Firefox7275 likes this.
2C normal/high porosity?, medium/coarse texture, lower density
Cleanse: Pura D'Or every week or two, Yes to Cukes
Conditioner: VO5 Kiwi Lime (LOVE!), Tresemme Naturals, YTC
DT: GVP Conditioning Balm w/ coconut oil
LI: a touch of JCTS
Products: my HG is Tresemme Bouncy Curls Defining Gel mixed with a touch of BRHG over a little flax seed gel, SM Souflee/Milk for 2nd day hair, occasionally Bioterra Curling Creme and Gel
Modified CG since November 2012- finally found what works!
Firefox, you've made a lot of mention lately of just important a good leave-in is. How do you define a good leave-in? What ingredients should I look for or avoid and why? I'm definitely lacking in knowledge in this area- enlighten me
Originally Posted by WavyRoo
The basics of a true conditioner are the major emollients - cationic surfactants and/ or fatty alcohols - and these are key in smoothing, clumping and gently help the hair hold the right amount of water. A lot of leave in products are not rich in these, they are high in occlusives (oils and butters) or humectants (water attracting) or film formers (eg. Knot Today).

It's fine to use these ingredients in addition to the emollients if your hair type dictates, and the right ones may aid frizz control or boost curl. Oftentimes a wash out conditioner makes a good leave in conditioner, to me there is a difference between rich and heavy.

Problems can come for wavies if they use too much humectants (can be drying or hold too much water and weigh hair down depending on the dew points), or too much occlusives (can be greasy or weigh hair down). I notice people then use less of their leave in product to avoid these negative effects so don't get frizz control, it would probably be better to use a different product altogether.

My hair is not as easily weighed down as many wavies, but it's actually commercial styling products that are major culprits. I can use fair amount of the right products and get MORE curl - for example hydrolysed protein (Gliss ultimate volume conditioner) or magnesium sulphate (Jessicurl Rockin Ringlets). Interestingly adding commercial styling products to either of these has not worked out that well for me, my hair is weighed down or frizzy or Medusa-noodle-head.

I do conditioner only styling when I don't need to look my best, partly because I am lazy, partly because I thought it would be gentler when I was growing out the worst of the damage. Although it doesn't generally give amazing results, it does mean I have a better understanding of what my conditioners are actually doing rather than only ever seeing what a combination of a conditioner and styler (or two conditioners and two stylers as many here use) is doing.
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
Experimenting with: benign neglect

Last edited by Firefox7275; 07-28-2013 at 07:35 AM.
Ok, I'm good on understanding fatty alcohols and looking for those ingredients. Can you tell me more about cationic surfactants or link me an article? What is the difference between rich and heavy from your standpoint? I didn't realize Rockin' Ringlets was a leave-in since it doesn't have any moisturizing ingredients- I just see film formers (flax seeds), humectants (aloe, vegetable glycerin), and occlusives (jojoba seed oil)...what am I missing? What category does the salt fit in? I do like the product, but never considered it in that way.

My hair doesn't get weighed down easily either, but it does frizz. I assumed I needed more gel rather than more leave-in, so I definitely need to experiment with better leave-ins. I've tried and tried conditioner only styling, but I have to have some hold or my waves/curls are poofy, inconsistent, frizzy, and undefined. I also bought a flax seed gel off etsy and it does nothing for me whatsoever which is sad. I seem to do best with completely rinsing out my RO, adding a tiny amount of JCTS for a leave-in, then a curling cream, then a gel. I'm ok with using creams/gels, but I do want a really good leave-in.

So.....what ingredients do I need to look for Ina leave-in? Or, even better, do you have any specific products that you could recommend (which I suppose is the topic of this thread)?
2C normal/high porosity?, medium/coarse texture, lower density
Cleanse: Pura D'Or every week or two, Yes to Cukes
Conditioner: VO5 Kiwi Lime (LOVE!), Tresemme Naturals, YTC
DT: GVP Conditioning Balm w/ coconut oil
LI: a touch of JCTS
Products: my HG is Tresemme Bouncy Curls Defining Gel mixed with a touch of BRHG over a little flax seed gel, SM Souflee/Milk for 2nd day hair, occasionally Bioterra Curling Creme and Gel
Modified CG since November 2012- finally found what works!
What about Renpure My Pretty Hair is Parched?

Ingredients: Purified Water, Cetrimonium Chloride (Palm Oil*), Cetearyl Alcohol (Palm Oil*), Behentrimonium Chloride (Rapeseed Oil*), Silicone Quaternium-17, PEG-10 Sunflower Glycerides, Helianthus Annuus (Sunflower) Seed Oil, Punica Granatum (Pomegranate) Fruit Extract, Carica Papaya Fruit Extract, Glycerin (Coconut Oil*), Olea Europaea (Olive) Leaf Extract, Panthenol, Tocopheryl Acetate, Citric Acid (Fruit Acid*), Diazolidinyl Urea, Iodopropynyl Butylcarbamate, Fragrance. (* Derived Source)
Salt & pepper wavy mix 2B/2C
Low to normal porosity, coarse, kinky, normal elasticity
Current favorites:
Low poo: Yes To Cukes Color Protection (the no sulfate one)
Conditioners: Renpure MPHIP, CJ Smoothing Lotion, AB LI, CJ Curl Rehab, CJ Argan/Olive, Darcy's Pumpkin
Style: FSG, BRHG
Pre-poo/DT: Conditioner with honey & coconut oil

iHerb discount code: PNQ285
Hmmm the conditioners I've been using lately for co-only styling have occlusives high up... I've been choosing them based on this to help combat the high dews. But I'm interested in experimenting with other more fatty/alcohol & cationic surfactant-ful conditioners....


uhhh can we get a list going?
CurlyGrey3 likes this.
fine - normal porosity*?- medium density - normal elasticity. Hard water. SoCal.
*Used to be low-porosity, but I lightened my hair 1-2 shades, so I may be normal-porosity now.

New climate! Current favorites:
Low-poo: CJ Gentle Cleansing Shampoo, Giovanni SaS
RO: V05 Kiwi Lime
Styler: UFD CM (old formula), FSG + CNPF
PT: CJ Repair Me, IAgirl's gelatine

Experimenting with: JC Confident Coils, JC Rockin Ringlets, CJ CIAB, gelatin gel

iherb discount code: CFN646
A couple more suggestions. I haven't tried either, but I've been eyeing them. I need a better leave-in too. CJ has so many different types that it confuses me I tried to pick the ones with fatty alcohols and cationic surfactants at the top of the list, but I may have missed others. The top one does look heavy on the butters as well - I don't know if that's good or bad.

CJ BEAUTICURLS LEAVE-IN HAIR CONDITIONER

Ingredients: Water, Cetyl Alcohol, Behentrimonium Methosulfate, Stearyl Alcohol, Mangifera Indica (Mango) Seed Butter, Butyrospermum Parkii (Shea Butter) Fruit, Garcinia Indica (Kokum) Seed Butter, Butylene Glycol, Rosa Canina Fruit (Rosehip Seed) Oil, Vitis Vinifera (Grape) Seed Oil, Allantoin, Melissa Officinalis (Melissa) Leaf Extract, Urtica Dioica (Nettle) Leaf Extract, Piperita (Peppermint) Leaf Extract, Equisetum Arvense (Horsetail) Leaf Extract, Yucca Leaf Extract, Stearamidopropyl Dimethylamine, Tocopheryl Acetate, Lecithin, Tetrasodium EDTA, Fragrance, Phenoxyethanol, Caprylyl Glycol.

CJ CURL ASSURANCE SMOOTHING LOTION

Ingredients: Water, Cetearyl Alcohol, Behentrimonium Methosulfate, Vegetable Glycerin, Slippery Elm Extract, Tocopheryl Acetate, Prunus Armeniaca (Apricot) Kernel Oil, Panthenol, Simmondsia Chinensis (Jojoba) Seed Oil, Helianthus Annuus (Sunflower) Seed Oil, Propylene Glycol, Diazolidinyl Urea, Iodopropynyl Butylcarbamate, Fragrance.
Salt & pepper wavy mix 2B/2C
Low to normal porosity, coarse, kinky, normal elasticity
Current favorites:
Low poo: Yes To Cukes Color Protection (the no sulfate one)
Conditioners: Renpure MPHIP, CJ Smoothing Lotion, AB LI, CJ Curl Rehab, CJ Argan/Olive, Darcy's Pumpkin
Style: FSG, BRHG
Pre-poo/DT: Conditioner with honey & coconut oil

iHerb discount code: PNQ285
Ok, I'm good on understanding fatty alcohols and looking for those ingredients. Can you tell me more about cationic surfactants or link me an article? What is the difference between rich and heavy from your standpoint? I didn't realize Rockin' Ringlets was a leave-in since it doesn't have any moisturizing ingredients- I just see film formers (flax seeds), humectants (aloe, vegetable glycerin), and occlusives (jojoba seed oil)...what am I missing? What category does the salt fit in? I do like the product, but never considered it in that way.

My hair doesn't get weighed down easily either, but it does frizz. I assumed I needed more gel rather than more leave-in, so I definitely need to experiment with better leave-ins. I've tried and tried conditioner only styling, but I have to have some hold or my waves/curls are poofy, inconsistent, frizzy, and undefined. I also bought a flax seed gel off etsy and it does nothing for me whatsoever which is sad. I seem to do best with completely rinsing out my RO, adding a tiny amount of JCTS for a leave-in, then a curling cream, then a gel. I'm ok with using creams/gels, but I do want a really good leave-in.

So.....what ingredients do I need to look for Ina leave-in? Or, even better, do you have any specific products that you could recommend (which I suppose is the topic of this thread)?
Originally Posted by WavyRoo
Oh dear sorry I was not clear. The Rockin Ringlets is a styler not a leave in conditioner, I mentioned that in the paragraph which referred to commercial styling products. The magnesium sulphate is a curl boosting ingredient or salt, it is not in one of the other categories you are familiar with. RR does have moisturising ingredients (aloe, glycerin) but it doesn't have the emollients of a conditioner.

Afraid I don't know what JCTS is, I'm useless with acronyms. Many curl creams contain fatty alcohols and cationic surfactants with some holding and/ or curl boosting ingredients so have something in common with leave in conditioners.

Ingredients Commonly Found in Hair Care Products
Cationic Surfactants in Curly Hair Care Products

Rich and heavy to some extent will vary from person to person. Heavy is a product that weighs hair down, it might contain a lot of butters for example or just too much fatty alcohols for a very fine haired wavy. Some tighter curlies or those with very dry or damaged hair might actually like or seek the heavy effect. Rich would be plenty of cationic surfactants and/ or fatty alcohols plus, if desired, some ingredients that might 'nourish' or 'moisturise' the hair - could be humectants, proteins or lightweight oils depending what works for the individual's hair. Not too much of anything to weigh the hair down just leave it feeling really conditioned and looking healthy.

Like I say, I don't conditioner only style to get good hair, but it really does help me understand what the product does - clumpy or stringy for example - and how much to use (for me loads). If I still have frizz I either have not used enough, or not distributed it properly, or it's not a great product for me. Only one conditioner gives me really rather nice definition/ shape/ bounce with a styler and that is the protein rich Gliss.

Even tho my hair likes penetrating oils as deep treatments, if I use oil based conditioners as leave ins I get greasy stringy hair if I use plenty, or a poofy/ fluffy mess if I use only a little. If I want good hair I do use some sort of styler as well, I see the conditioner-only days as either experiments or working towards healthier hair.
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
Experimenting with: benign neglect
These are not recommendations, just illustrations relating to my hair. In red is the main fatty alohols and cationic surfactants, in blue anything that makes it rich, heavy or 'nourishing'. I look at the order of the ingredients and make guesses on some quantities, for example looking at where the fragrance/ preservatives/ glycerin/ protein/ vitamins are in the order since these are usually present in small amounts (eg. 2%) so anything after that should also be present in every small amounts.

Gliss Ultimate Volume. I love this it feels rich, actually is more slippy than I first thought having used it as a rinse out, so seems to be quite a bit of cetearyl alcohol. Can use loads without weighing hair down, hair feels soft, looks shiny and curls are defined.
"water, cetearyl alcohol, hydrolyzed collagen, panthenol, cocodimonium hydroxypropyl hydrolyzed keratin, hydrolyzed keratin, isopropyl myristate, behonoyl PG-trimonium chloride, citric acid, VP/VA copolymer, phenoxyethanol, behentrimonium chloride, sodium methylparaben, hexylene glycol, fragrance, polyquaternium-37, dicaprylyl carbonate, hexyl cinnamal, amyl cinnamal, limonene, linalool, benzyl salicylate."

Fructis Sleek & Shine (old formula). Although oil is fairly high up the list this is not overly greasy so I can use it reasonably close to the roots in moderation, like the Gliss there must be plenty of cetearyl alcohol. Does work best with a styling product, I can use more without looking like I have dirty hair.
"Water, cetearyl alcohol, palm oil, behentrimonium chloride, niacinamide, sugar cane extract, hydrolysed corn protein, hydrolysed soy protein, hydrolysed wheat protein, stearamidopropyl dimethylamine, chlorhexidine dihydrochloride, xylose, limonene, camellia sinesis leaf extract, linalool, benzyl salicylate, benzyl alcohol, isopropyl alcohol, apple fruit extract, pyridoxine HCl, citric acid, butylphenyl methylpropional, lemon peel extract, hexylcinnamal, glycerin, fragrance FIL C35637/1."

Crown Pride Avocado Detangling. Arguably not a 'true' leave in conditioner because the oils are high up the ingredients and the emollients too far down, lower than honey which would be sticky if too much was used. It's not a good leave in for me, too heavy/ greasy and stringy results, I have to use so little I don't get any clumping or curl formation. Quite a nice silky slippy wash out tho (which TBF is what it is formulated for after all).
"Water, organic unrefined avocado oil, organic honey, sweet almond oil, behetrimonium methosulfate (and) cetearyl alcohol, organic olive oil, cetyl alcohol, behentrimonium chloride, panthenol, vanilla extract, horsetail extract, nettle extract, marshmallow root extract, lavender extract, guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride, phenoxyethanol (and) caprylyl glycol, lactic acid."

Hope the ramblings make some sort of sense of my thought processes and don't confuse anyone further!!
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
Experimenting with: benign neglect
That was incredibly helpful. I need a few days to read and reread, then process! Thanks for such a thoughtful answer.

BTW, JCTS is my Jessicurl Too Shea
2C normal/high porosity?, medium/coarse texture, lower density
Cleanse: Pura D'Or every week or two, Yes to Cukes
Conditioner: VO5 Kiwi Lime (LOVE!), Tresemme Naturals, YTC
DT: GVP Conditioning Balm w/ coconut oil
LI: a touch of JCTS
Products: my HG is Tresemme Bouncy Curls Defining Gel mixed with a touch of BRHG over a little flax seed gel, SM Souflee/Milk for 2nd day hair, occasionally Bioterra Curling Creme and Gel
Modified CG since November 2012- finally found what works!
I'm fairly new at this but the YTC Leave-In looks pretty good. I have not tried it yet though.

Here are the ingredients:

WATER (AQUA), CETEARYL ALCOHOL, BEHENTRIMONIUM CHLORIDE, CARTHAMUS TINCTORIUS (SAFFLOWER) SEED OIL, EUPHORBIA CERIFERA (CANDELILLA CERA) WAX, OLEA EUROPAEA (OLIVE) FRUIT OIL, BUTYROSPERMUM PARKII (SHEA BUTTER), ARGANIA SPINOSA (ARGAN) KERNEL OIL, MACADEMIA TERNIFOLIA (MACADAMIA) SEED OIL*, COCOS NUCIFERA (COCONUT) OIL, LEUCONOSTOC/RADISH ROOT FERMENT FILTRATE, PUNICA GRANATUM (POMEGRANATE) EXTRACT*, CAMELLIA SINENSIS (GREEN TEA) LEAF EXTRACT*, DAUCUS CAROTA SATIVA (CARROT) ROOT EXTRACT*, IPOMOEA BATATAS TUBER (SWEET POTATO) EXTRACT, SPIRULINA MAXIMA EXTRACT*, CITRUS AURANTIUM DULCIS (ORANGE) FRUIT EXTRACT*, HONEY EXTRACT*, MACROCYSTIS PYRIFERA (SEA KELP) EXTRACT*, GLYCINE SOJA (SOYBEAN) SEED EXTRACT, HYDROLYZED KERATIN, HYDROLYZED SOY PROTEIN, TOCOPHEROL, GLYCERIN, GUAR HYDROXYPROPYLTRIMONIUM CHLORIDE, CAPRYLIC/CAPRIC TRIGLYCERIDE, GLYCERYL STEARATE, CITRIC ACID, DIHYDROXYPROPYLTRIMONIUM CHLORIDE, SODIUM HYDROXIDE, SODIUM BORATE, POTASSIUM SORBATE, PHENOXYETHANOL, FRAGRANCE. * CERTIFIED ORGANIC INGREDIENT

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