Frustrated!

So I've been a CG religiously (no poo at all!) for about 3 months now. I got my Deva cut (which I love!), I stopped using shampoo/cones, figured out my hair hates protein, but... I'm still very unhappy with my results. I am a 2c hair type I think, very dense, course hair. My hair, even when it looks decent when it dries, always frizzes out by mid-day. I think I'm just overwhelmed by all the info and I don't know what actually applies to me!

Products: Suave Naturals Ocean Breeze and v05 Vanilla Mint Tea Clarifying conditioners, Kinky Curly leave-in, Loreal Studio Line Clean Gel, and sometimes LA Looks Sport Gel (boyfriend's, haha).

I don't ever brush my hair or anything, and generally to style, I flip my hair over in the shower while soaking wet, scrunch in some conditioner and gel, then scrunch in more gel when my hair is slightly drier.

Basically my issues are: I miss the silky clean feeling it used to have when I used shampoo, it is not nearly as curly as it used to be when I used shampoo and I can't even blow dry it scrunched and get curl, the waves seem more... random and awkward than they used to, haha.

Some pictures:
https://sphotos-a-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/h..._7985761_n.jpg Few years old, way before going CG. A good hair day, admittedly!
https://sphotos-b-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/h...646_8898_n.jpg Before CG. A more normal hair day, but still can't control the curl/waves!
https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.n...90183955_n.jpg A few weeks ago. This is me trying to style my hair, so flatttt!
https://sphotos-b-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/h...24004347_n.jpg Very good hair day with CG... what my hairstylist managed to do that I can not recreate (though I sat under a drier for 30 minutes, that probably helped! And I don't have time to do that on a daily basis )

What am I doing wrong? What products do I need to switch to? I prefer things I can go to the store and pick up, but if there's something awesome that I need to order, I'm open to it! Help! I want those soft, shiny, controlled waves that so many of you have achieved on the before and after thread!
IF it looks nice when dried but frizzes out during the day it could be a humectant issue? Check for those in your products if you're living in a city currently experiencing high dews.

CG permits low-pooing. Not everyone cowashes. Some switch between cowashing and low-pooing. I myself low-poo regularly. A low-poo that I really like and is readily available is YesToCucumbers.

Curls drooping often means being over-conditioned. Is your hair limp, soft, and mushy? Try skipping the LI, low-pooing and/or adding a different kind of protein than the one you tried (and figured you didn't like). Some people can take certain proteins but not others.

BTW I think your hair looks really nice in all the photos.
fine - normal porosity*?- medium density - normal elasticity. Hard water. SoCal.
*Used to be low-porosity, but I lightened my hair 1-2 shades, so I may be normal-porosity now.

New climate! Current favorites:
Low-poo: CJ Gentle Cleansing Shampoo, Giovanni SaS
RO: V05 Kiwi Lime
Styler: UFD CM (old formula), FSG + CNPF
PT: CJ Repair Me, IAgirl's gelatine

Experimenting with: JC Confident Coils, JC Rockin Ringlets, CJ CIAB, gelatin gel

iherb discount code: CFN646
A few ideas. First of all, you're not using anything that supplies much moisture, no matter what your properties are. The KCKT is a detangler, not a conditioner or leave in (while some use it that way.) A lot of people like the "Yes To" conditioners. You can find them on the ground. They might be something for you to try.

Are you sure that your hair is coarse?? Many people mistake dryness for coarseness. How about your porosity?? If it's low, you need to be doing more to get the moisture in.

Where do you live?? What's the weather like? Coarse hair tolerates (possibly needs) more protein when the weather is warmer.

Lastly. Many of us rotate products. My hair always satiated on product--even back in my shampoo/conditioner only days. I wet, use a rinse out and style every day. Seldom let myself use any one product more then once every five days, if that.
3a (Corkicelli), highlighted, fine, low porosity
modified CG, since April '07
CG since 3/11/08

SE PA

HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic; Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me, Marie Dean Leave Ins and Curl Creams
Welcome!

Not sure I will add anything new because I agree with the above posts - confirm your hair properties, perhaps with a hair analysis, your hair does not look coarse.
Pedaheh's Hair Blog: GoosefootPrints Hair Analysis with My Analysis Results

Consider your dew points/ humidity, free 'Curls on the Go' app if you have a smartphone
NEW! Curls On The Go Free Mobile App

Kinky Curly Knot Today is a detangler not a 'true' conditioner, it has no oils, few emollients (fatty alcohols and cationic surfactants). It is also pH 7 (neutral) which does not encourage the cuticle to lay flat. Fine to medium hair tends to do well with hydrolysed protein with gives volume and boosts curl, magnesium sulphate is another curl booster but can be drying if overused. Are you not using a rinse out conditioner, just the co-wash and then a detangler?

Double check your wash technique, my hair is literally squeaky clean when I am done co-washing. Are you building up a light lather, are you rinsing with massage until you get that clean feeling? Consider the pH of your products, hair's happy place is acidic at ~4.5 - this helps the hair feel silky and may reduce frizz.
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Boots Essentials gel
Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
Experimenting with: benign neglect
First, your hair looks great in every picture.

And if cg isn't working for you, try something. Perhaps switch to low poo


How often are you no pooing?


Sent from my SPH-D710 using CurlTalk App
Thanks everyone! I'll keep looking into things and try the Yes to Cucumbers stuff! I haven't done a hair analysis or anything but I'd definitely say my hair is course? I guess it's hard to tell from pictures, but I've always likened it to a straw-like texture, lol. Could have just been very dry though, I guess?

I guess my main issue is that my hair will absolutely NOT get as curly as it was in the first picture I posted anymore. No matter what I've tried. It doesn't always have to be that curly, but that was kind of my thing! It also does something different every day, so I have no way to put extra effort in to try to make it look nice for special events because it's not predictable at all. Most of the time it comes out either frizzy or limp. Gah!

Edit: Scrills, I no-poo every day or every 2nd day. When I was using shampoo, I could go 4-5 days without shampooing if I wanted to, but with the no-poo it gets too greasy by the end of the day. If I leave it for two days, day 2 is definitely a ponytail and headband kind of day, haha.

I generally use whatever I used to co-wash to rinse out, too. Is this wrong?

Edit2: I live in Ohio, USA. The weather has been warm/humid this week (mid-upper 80s), but for the most part has been cooler (70s) and humid for most of the summer.

Last edited by jendugovich; 08-30-2013 at 08:14 PM.
I live in Philly suburbs, so I think our weather is similar. Until you get your hair moisturized, I'd still question the coarseness. Most curly hair is fine, then medium and fewest are coarse (I think it's less than 20%.) Here's a link to CJ Marsha's blog Curl Junkie - Natural Hair Care for all types of Curly Hair!: My 2 cents on Protein/Texture/Porosity/Moisture Balance! :-) She gives visuals, so you can compare your hair and see.

Tightening curls is all about getting the moisture/protein balance right. My first suggestion is MOISTURE, MOISTURE and more MOISTURE, because your hair looks dry. Hair should actually feel soft, even if it is coarse. "Strawlike" is not a state your hair should be in whatever the circumstance (dry or too much protein.) You can add protein through your rinse out conditioner and styling products.
3a (Corkicelli), highlighted, fine, low porosity
modified CG, since April '07
CG since 3/11/08

SE PA

HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic; Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me, Marie Dean Leave Ins and Curl Creams
I agree with what everyone else has already said. If cowashing leaves you greasy, I would incorporate a low poo in once a week, cowash, every two days, and just rinse with water on the other days. Always apply a good conditioner after washing or wetting. Use a better leave in.

Regardless of how your hairs feels (straw like), coarse hair would feel substantial if you held a single hair strand, like a pubic hair, and doesn't bend very easily. Fine hair is hard to "feel" if you hold a single strand between two fingers, and looks more translucent when holding it up to the light.
2C/ Coarse/ Normal porosity/ SW Florida/ Salt & Pepper
Cleanse: CJ Daily Fix, JC Cleansing Cream, TJ Tea Tree Condish
Condish: JC Too Shea, CJ Curl Rehab (both as RO & LI)
Stylers: UFD CM, CJ PP, JC Spiralicious, Darcy's Cream Gel & Cocoa bean whip
Straw like can mean your hair is dry or damaged, does not mean it is coarse.
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Boots Essentials gel
Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
Experimenting with: benign neglect
Ahhh, thanks for the clarification! I will have to get a hair analysis done and see what they say for sure. From reading a little bit about it, my hair might be medium/normal, then? I definitely don't think it'd be fine, but I guess it could be hard to tell.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.n...25876124_n.jpg
Another pic... this is a bad pic of me but a good example of what my hair likes to do now, haha. I did my hair that day the exact same way that I did it on this day: https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.n..._6401867_n.jpg Gah!!

Thanks so much for the help so far, I need to keep reading and figuring my hair out I guess!

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