Getting SUPER frustrated...

Hi, all!

I just joined the site last week (my intro post is on that board). Since then, I have spent SO much time researching the CG method and trying to find out what might work best for me. Here's a picture of where I am now:

Photo on 11-12-13 at 1.05 PM.jpg

Pardon my silly face, and the fact that I'm reduced to taking photos in my kitchen. I *think* I have everything from a 2A - 3A in there, but probably more 2B/2C than anything, so I'm posting here in the 2 section.

Anyway.

As I mentioned in my introductory post, I have been straightening my hair with a flat iron for more than twenty years. Not surprisingly, my ends were (and still are, to an extent) stick-straight and very brittle. I've cut most of them off myself (about 2" in places) and have experimented with different products. The ones I get the best results with are not CG-friendly. The popular CG products seem to pull the curl out of my hair and give me frizz. Some questions/observations:

1.) Is it possible that silicones are okay for some people? And if my hair responds better to a silicone than to a product without it, what does that say about my hair?

2.) I've had to use a sulfate-free shampoo on my hair once per week to keep it from feeling weighed down. When I use actual shampoo, my curls look fabulous. I've read that the no-poo method doesn't work for everyone, so maybe I'm one of them. That would suck, though, because I just spent a ton of $ on Deva Curl products...

3.) ...which don't seem to be working well for me at all. Granted, it's the first day I've ever used them, but the frizz halo I'd managed to get rid of (thanks to KCCC!) is back in full effect. The picture I posted is after a second wash and using so much product that my hands feel greasy anytime I touch my hair.

4.) I'm noticing that a popular suggestion for people new to CG is to clarify. What's a good clarifying shampoo?

I'm sorry to bombard the group with all these questions. I feel pretty ashamed of myself for frying my hair for so long, because I feel kind of fabulous with curls these days. I'm just not sure how much of my lack of curl is due to years of damage, how much is due to using the wrong products, and how much is due to hormonal changes (I'm 36). Some of those things can be fixed, and I'm committed to finding out how.

Thanks for reading my wall o' text!
Welcome to the 2 forum! Glad to hear that you are doing some research as there is a lot to learn! Still learning myself.

To answer some of your questions:
1) Some people do feel that silicone products work best for them. If you use non-water soluble silicones, you need to use a sulfate-based shampoo to wash them out or you will have bad build up.

2) Many wavy hair folk have troubles exclusively co-washing. Many low-poo at least once per week. Some never co-wash.

3) Deva products are great, but not for everyone. I used them when I started CG, but got protein overload and now can't use them often. However, if you are using non-water soluble silicones, the deva products won't wash them out.

What other products have you tried that seem to not work? Are you using a LI?

Have you tried doing a protein pack or a deep conditioning?
Hi, all!

I just joined the site last week (my intro post is on that board). Since then, I have spent SO much time researching the CG method and trying to find out what might work best for me. Here's a picture of where I am now:

Attachment 39806

Pardon my silly face, and the fact that I'm reduced to taking photos in my kitchen. I *think* I have everything from a 2A - 3A in there, but probably more 2B/2C than anything, so I'm posting here in the 2 section.

Anyway.

As I mentioned in my introductory post, I have been straightening my hair with a flat iron for more than twenty years. Not surprisingly, my ends were (and still are, to an extent) stick-straight and very brittle. I've cut most of them off myself (about 2" in places) and have experimented with different products. The ones I get the best results with are not CG-friendly. The popular CG products seem to pull the curl out of my hair and give me frizz. Some questions/observations:

1.) Is it possible that silicones are okay for some people? And if my hair responds better to a silicone than to a product without it, what does that say about my hair?

2.) I've had to use a sulfate-free shampoo on my hair once per week to keep it from feeling weighed down. When I use actual shampoo, my curls look fabulous. I've read that the no-poo method doesn't work for everyone, so maybe I'm one of them. That would suck, though, because I just spent a ton of $ on Deva Curl products...

3.) ...which don't seem to be working well for me at all. Granted, it's the first day I've ever used them, but the frizz halo I'd managed to get rid of (thanks to KCCC!) is back in full effect. The picture I posted is after a second wash and using so much product that my hands feel greasy anytime I touch my hair.

4.) I'm noticing that a popular suggestion for people new to CG is to clarify. What's a good clarifying shampoo?

I'm sorry to bombard the group with all these questions. I feel pretty ashamed of myself for frying my hair for so long, because I feel kind of fabulous with curls these days. I'm just not sure how much of my lack of curl is due to years of damage, how much is due to using the wrong products, and how much is due to hormonal changes (I'm 36). Some of those things can be fixed, and I'm committed to finding out how.

Thanks for reading my wall o' text!
Originally Posted by dlcooper77
I say use what works for your hair! CG friendly or not. Everyone is so afraid of sulfates and proteins and think their hair is going to get completely ruined if they use all of these things. My curls are the best when I use a sulfate as well. It tends to get dry if I do this though, so that's the struggle that I'm having right now. I've tried so many CG friendly products, and they work sometimes but not others. Our weather has been all over the place the past few weeks, and my hair is just NOT having it. At all. Makes me miss the simple sulfate and silicone days when I straightened my hair.
2c-3a - coarse - normal-high porosity - high density - growing out to donate

NP/LP: KMF Whenever Conditioner/ YTCucs
RO/LI: Sevi Pumpkin Seed DC / CJ Argan & Olive Oil, KCKT, YTBbs
DT: Coconut Oil + scalp massage
OIL/STYLER: SM Elixir / KCCC
COLOR: henna, amla & indigo
Thanks for your replies!

Last night, I decided to buy a few clarifying shampoos to see if I could hit the reset button by clearing away the buildup. I'm pleased to report that Kinky-Curly Come Clean (I'll learn the abbreviations/acronyms, I promise!) did the job nicely. I shampooed twice with that (I had a LOT of buildup), then used my DevaCurl One Condition and did a baptism rinse. While my hair was dripping wet, I used a few drops of Carol's Daughter Tui oil on my ends and plopped for ten minutes without product. I took my hair down and used about half as much KCCC as I'd been using and diffused until my hair was about 95% dry. I'm very pleased with the result: shiny, bouncy waves and curls that don't look product-heavy. There doesn't seem to be much frizz, either, so that's a definite win.

hair1113.jpg

I'm waiting for my hair to grow out a bit before cutting more of those straight/heat-damaged ends off; this is the shortest my hair has been since I was 13, and I'm already very anxious for it to grow out. :P

Oh -- as for my LI, I either do a baptism rinse (thanks to BotticelliBrit for letting me know that was even a thing!) or reapply a dime-sized amount of my conditioner. I have some DevaCurl Heaven in Hair that I'll be trying out over the weekend, and I'm looking into homemade protein treatments.

To answer your other question, mandymae, I tried the Shea Moisture and Suave Naturals lines and wasn't impressed with either; however, I'd be willing to bet that I'd like them more with a regular deep cleansing. The DevaCurl One Condition is awesome, now that I've actually shampooed my hair. What I'm learning is that my hair is not thick enough, nor are my waves/curls tight enough, to tolerate any buildup whatsoever. I'll play around with how often I need an actual shampoo, but I'm feeling quite hopeful now.

Thanks again!
Welcome! I just wanted to add a bit to what some of the other posters have said.
Have you tried to determine your hair properties yet? Based on your description, it's probably safe to say high porosity and low elasticity, but you might want to figure out texture (fine, medium, coarse). If your hair is easily weighed down it's probably fine, but you might want to check out a few strands. I ask this because it's properties, not curl pattern, that will really affect the types of ingredients and products that will work best for your hair. In your case, protein is probably a very good bet for your hair. It was when I started taking care of my hair based on properties that I saw the biggest difference.
No two heads of hair are alike. In the end it really comes down to what works best for you. I strongly recommend that people try strict CG for a good 6-8 weeks before giving up and or modifying. Keep in mind that strict CG still allows for low-poo (sulfate-free shampoo) and water-soluble silicones (typically PEG or PPG). Many people have an odd adjustment phase that can last several weeks. Keep headbands or clips on hand if you hate your hair that day. The most beneficial lesson you can learn from CG is the awareness of what your hair needs (protein, moisture, etc), and it takes time to get a feel for that. Once you have that understanding, it really doesn't matter what type of products you use because you will know your hair well enough to notice if you have buildup or need protein or moisture. I also wanted to correct a statement regarding the need for sulfates to remove silicones. This is not true. Any cleanser with coco betaine (near the top of the ingredient list) is sufficient. Most low-poos do have this ingredient, but check labels because some do not.

3a/f/iii
Modified CG since 11/5/11
CLEANSE: VO5 Vanilla Mint Tea Clarifying, DevaCare No-Poo, CHS Treatment Shampoo
RO: DevaCare One Condition, SS Caitlin's Conditioner, Mop Top Daily Conditioner
LI: SS Repairing Protein Treatment, CHS Silk Leave-In
STYLE: Re:Coil, Curl Keeper, Deva Ultra Defining Gel, Curls Rock Amplifier and Strong Hold Mousse, Sweet Curls Elixirs Okra Gel and Hard Hold Gel, SS Curl Enhancing Jelly and Firm Hold Gel
I did a few tests yesterday. Provided that I did everything correctly, my hair is moderately fine, low-medium density, extremely porous, and has little to no elasticity. Most of my strands snapped as soon as I tried to pull them. Good call!

So, question: I'm noticing many complaints about dryness after a protein treatment. Is this a sign that the hair doesn't like protein, or is that simply to be expected?
I did a few tests yesterday. Provided that I did everything correctly, my hair is moderately fine, low-medium density, extremely porous, and has little to no elasticity. Most of my strands snapped as soon as I tried to pull them. Good call!

So, question: I'm noticing many complaints about dryness after a protein treatment. Is this a sign that the hair doesn't like protein, or is that simply to be expected?
Originally Posted by dlcooper77
It depends. Some people have hair that is so protein craving that a regular rinse-out conditioner is sufficient moisture following even the strongest protein treatment (this is my hair). Other people find that they do best following a protein treatment with a deep conditioning treatment. I know one or two wavies who found that using lots of protein was the only way they could get their hair to hold on to any real moisture, particularly when their hair was extremely damaged, so it's possible to need large amounts of both protein as moisture. Still others are truly sensitive to protein (or at least to certain proteins in certain products- very few people truly cannot use any sort of protein ever). The typical reaction is hair that mimics badly damaged hair- brittle, straw-like, etc. I would try to go the route of lots of moisture plus lots of protein, and then adjust as your hair gets healthier. Check out IA Girl's PT- it's cheap and easy to make at home and can be adjusted to whatever strength you need. I believe the basic recipe can be found on her blog (Sciency Hair Blog); there's a thread buried on the 2s forum somewhere, I believe called PT Recipe As Promised, which has a link to the blog, plus posts from others with the way they adjusted the recipe for their hair. For example, the basic recipe calls for one packet of unflavored gelatin, but my protein-craving hair can easily tolerate 4 packets of gelatin, plus two other protein-based add-ins. If you're unsure of your hair's protein tolerance, you can start with 1/2 packet.

3a/f/iii
Modified CG since 11/5/11
CLEANSE: VO5 Vanilla Mint Tea Clarifying, DevaCare No-Poo, CHS Treatment Shampoo
RO: DevaCare One Condition, SS Caitlin's Conditioner, Mop Top Daily Conditioner
LI: SS Repairing Protein Treatment, CHS Silk Leave-In
STYLE: Re:Coil, Curl Keeper, Deva Ultra Defining Gel, Curls Rock Amplifier and Strong Hold Mousse, Sweet Curls Elixirs Okra Gel and Hard Hold Gel, SS Curl Enhancing Jelly and Firm Hold Gel
I did a few tests yesterday. Provided that I did everything correctly, my hair is moderately fine, low-medium density, extremely porous, and has little to no elasticity. Most of my strands snapped as soon as I tried to pull them. Good call!

So, question: I'm noticing many complaints about dryness after a protein treatment. Is this a sign that the hair doesn't like protein, or is that simply to be expected?
Originally Posted by dlcooper77
It depends. Some people have hair that is so protein craving that a regular rinse-out conditioner is sufficient moisture following even the strongest protein treatment (this is my hair). Other people find that they do best following a protein treatment with a deep conditioning treatment. I know one or two wavies who found that using lots of protein was the only way they could get their hair to hold on to any real moisture, particularly when their hair was extremely damaged, so it's possible to need large amounts of both protein as moisture. Still others are truly sensitive to protein (or at least to certain proteins in certain products- very few people truly cannot use any sort of protein ever). The typical reaction is hair that mimics badly damaged hair- brittle, straw-like, etc. I would try to go the route of lots of moisture plus lots of protein, and then adjust as your hair gets healthier. Check out IA Girl's PT- it's cheap and easy to make at home and can be adjusted to whatever strength you need. I believe the basic recipe can be found on her blog (Sciency Hair Blog); there's a thread buried on the 2s forum somewhere, I believe called PT Recipe As Promised, which has a link to the blog, plus posts from others with the way they adjusted the recipe for their hair. For example, the basic recipe calls for one packet of unflavored gelatin, but my protein-craving hair can easily tolerate 4 packets of gelatin, plus two other protein-based add-ins. If you're unsure of your hair's protein tolerance, you can start with 1/2 packet.
Originally Posted by Corrina777
would you mine posting your PT tweak of the gelatin recipe please? My hair can't get enough protein and I'd like to try yours with the 4 packets and two other protein add ins...thanks ahead of time.
shoulder length inverted bob; fine; 3A-3B; med-thick density; normal porosity; normal elasticity- my hair loves keratin, ACV, silk protein ,Curlkeeper and AG:Recoil ; seems to hate moisturizing products and oils except mineral oil; CG- Jan/'09-mod CG Sept/'09;CG again Jan/'10/mod CG from Mar'10

receive $10 off 1st order of $40 & up, or $5 off on smaller orders, when using iHERB code: GIK909
When I was getting my hair into shape, DevaCare One Condition was hands down the best conditioner for my hair. I currently use a sulfate free shampoo twice per week, followed by a rinse out conditioner, a leave in conditioner, and then flax seed gel (fsg) with mag sulfate added to it. Love that FSG! Doesn't weigh down my hair at all. I'm glad the KCCC is working for you. I could never get it to play nicely with my hair.
Hair Properties: 2A/2B, Medium-fine, Normal porosity, Normal elasticity, Medium density
Low Poo: DevaCare, Yes to Cuc's
Rinse Out: DevaCare One Condition, Yes to Cuc's
Cowash: Suave Naturals Lavender, Yes to Carrots Scalp Conditioner
Curl Cream: AG ReCoil, Organix Moroccan Oil Curl Cream
Gel/Mousse: Sweet Curls Elixirs FSG w/ Mag Sulfate added, Sweet Curls Elixirs hard hold gel, DevaCurl Frizz Free Foam, Aquage Uplifting Foam
Protein: Spiral Solutions Protein Spray for daily use
I did a few tests yesterday. Provided that I did everything correctly, my hair is moderately fine, low-medium density, extremely porous, and has little to no elasticity. Most of my strands snapped as soon as I tried to pull them. Good call!

So, question: I'm noticing many complaints about dryness after a protein treatment. Is this a sign that the hair doesn't like protein, or is that simply to be expected?
Originally Posted by dlcooper77
It depends. Some people have hair that is so protein craving that a regular rinse-out conditioner is sufficient moisture following even the strongest protein treatment (this is my hair). Other people find that they do best following a protein treatment with a deep conditioning treatment. I know one or two wavies who found that using lots of protein was the only way they could get their hair to hold on to any real moisture, particularly when their hair was extremely damaged, so it's possible to need large amounts of both protein as moisture. Still others are truly sensitive to protein (or at least to certain proteins in certain products- very few people truly cannot use any sort of protein ever). The typical reaction is hair that mimics badly damaged hair- brittle, straw-like, etc. I would try to go the route of lots of moisture plus lots of protein, and then adjust as your hair gets healthier. Check out IA Girl's PT- it's cheap and easy to make at home and can be adjusted to whatever strength you need. I believe the basic recipe can be found on her blog (Sciency Hair Blog); there's a thread buried on the 2s forum somewhere, I believe called PT Recipe As Promised, which has a link to the blog, plus posts from others with the way they adjusted the recipe for their hair. For example, the basic recipe calls for one packet of unflavored gelatin, but my protein-craving hair can easily tolerate 4 packets of gelatin, plus two other protein-based add-ins. If you're unsure of your hair's protein tolerance, you can start with 1/2 packet.
Originally Posted by Corrina777
would you mine posting your PT tweak of the gelatin recipe please? My hair can't get enough protein and I'd like to try yours with the 4 packets and two other protein add ins...thanks ahead of time.
Originally Posted by Ondulee
I use 4 packets of gelatin in 1/3 cup of water (it definitely takes a bit more patience to dissolve all the gelatin, but it can definitely be done). I add about 1 teaspoon of honey. Then I add about 1 tablespoon of Colorful Neutral Protein Filler (available at Sally's), and about 2 tablespoons of ION Effective Care (also at Sally's). When I have it on hand I'll also throw in a tablespoon or so of CHS Pure Silk protein. This gives me 3-4 different types of protein and the conditioner gives it some moisturizing properties. I add Epsom salt because I always use heat (sometimes I use a soft bonnet heat cap for 30-60 minutes and sometimes I do the blow dryer method (like Aphogee 2 Step- blow dry your hair with PT in it until fully dry, then rinse). I also add a small pinch of citric acid to keep the pH low. After I stir everything in I use my magic bullet to really mix everything together and give it a smoother consistency.

3a/f/iii
Modified CG since 11/5/11
CLEANSE: VO5 Vanilla Mint Tea Clarifying, DevaCare No-Poo, CHS Treatment Shampoo
RO: DevaCare One Condition, SS Caitlin's Conditioner, Mop Top Daily Conditioner
LI: SS Repairing Protein Treatment, CHS Silk Leave-In
STYLE: Re:Coil, Curl Keeper, Deva Ultra Defining Gel, Curls Rock Amplifier and Strong Hold Mousse, Sweet Curls Elixirs Okra Gel and Hard Hold Gel, SS Curl Enhancing Jelly and Firm Hold Gel

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