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Thank you so much.... I don't think anyone has ever said that to me ever.... I really appreciate it....

Not layers - layers... last time I had a haircut was in 2011... since then I micro trim my hair from time to time... the shorter parts (on the sides) are my bangs... lol... or my old layer catching up...

This is where I started:
Originally Posted by arel

When I get my hair trimmed, I only get taken off what needs to be taken off (I'm trying to grow my hair out). I used to have all one length, and now I have layers because I feel that layers are a lot easier to manage. My hair is shorter in the front too cause I'm growing out the bangs that I had. I feel like you and I have similar hair type.
Originally Posted by CurlyShorty3405
The last pic was a 'trim' I got from a hairstylist... I had BSL hair back then...

Reading your description, I also think we might have similar hair types... I don't know much about hair properties, since even when I stopped using shampoo a while ago, I still have too much to learn ... Just very recently learned my hair loves protein (at the beginning of this month)...

My next step is to learn how to use gel...

Originally Posted by arel

My hair hates gel, mousse and curl creams. My hair loves protein too. I actually take a keratin supplement and use coconut oil, which is rich in protein as an overnight deep conditioning treatment. Once a year I get the Paul Mitchell Awapuhi Wild Ginger KeraTriPlex keratin deep conditioning treatment at the salon that I go to, and my hair loves it. Since I've started taking keratin, I've noticed that my hair has a lot less breakage.
2B-2C
Density-Medium/High
Width-medium
Length-Medium

Shampoo-Onesta Hydrating Shampoo
Conditioner-Onesta Hydrating Conditioner
Deep conditioner- Coconut Oil
Styling- Josie Maran Bohemian Waves Argan Hair Mist Texture Volume & Moisture
Leave in- Living Proof Restore Targeted Repair Cream
Sealer: The Body Shop Olive Beautifying Oil

Supplements: 50 mg of keratin, 15 mg of biotin

My hair loves: Coconut Oil, Protein (Keratin)
My hair hates: co-washing, gel, mousse, and curl creams
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,073
For good clumping apply your gel on wet hair and try the "scrunch and pump". Nice waves, btw! Your hair reminded me so much of my daughter's, but lately she's given up on wearing it wavy, she never wanted to listen to me when I wanted to show her how to do it... like they say (more or less), "a prophet is not welcome in his own town".


When I get my hair trimmed, I only get taken off what needs to be taken off (I'm trying to grow my hair out). I used to have all one length, and now I have layers because I feel that layers are a lot easier to manage. My hair is shorter in the front too cause I'm growing out the bangs that I had. I feel like you and I have similar hair type.
Originally Posted by CurlyShorty3405
The last pic was a 'trim' I got from a hairstylist... I had BSL hair back then...

Reading your description, I also think we might have similar hair types... I don't know much about hair properties, since even when I stopped using shampoo a while ago, I still have too much to learn ... Just very recently learned my hair loves protein (at the beginning of this month)...

My next step is to learn how to use gel...

Originally Posted by arel

My hair hates gel, mousse and curl creams. My hair loves protein too. I actually take a keratin supplement and use coconut oil, which is rich in protein as an overnight deep conditioning treatment. Once a year I get the Paul Mitchell Awapuhi Wild Ginger KeraTriPlex keratin deep conditioning treatment at the salon that I go to, and my hair loves it. Since I've started taking keratin, I've noticed that my hair has a lot less breakage.
Originally Posted by CurlyShorty3405
I don't think my hair 'hates' gel... at least, I have not seen anything that gives me that impression. Maybe I should give FSG another try...

As for the protein, I do the gel Knox pack... the first time I tried protein was with Palmer's coconut... and I noticed it 'straightened' my waves... but then, when I used the full strength gelatin, it was a 180 degrees change... My hair never felt so soft and nice... and started 'curling' more...
For good clumping apply your gel on wet hair and try the "scrunch and pump". Nice waves, btw! Your hair reminded me so much of my daughter's, but lately she's given up on wearing it wavy, she never wanted to listen to me when I wanted to show her how to do it... like they say (more or less), "a prophet is not welcome in his own town".
Originally Posted by CGSince2002
I tried this yesterday... with little gel mix with water... I saw some parts that really curled up nicely, the top of my hair, however, was still wavy and frizzy... next time I will add more gel... and will continue experimenting...

Thanks for the compliment
My hair hates gel, mousse and curl creams. My hair loves protein too. I actually take a keratin supplement and use coconut oil, which is rich in protein as an overnight deep conditioning treatment. Once a year I get the Paul Mitchell Awapuhi Wild Ginger KeraTriPlex keratin deep conditioning treatment at the salon that I go to, and my hair loves it. Since I've started taking keratin, I've noticed that my hair has a lot less breakage.
Originally Posted by CurlyShorty3405
What type of keratin are you taking? Supplements?
Location: Texas
Type: 3b/3c (i), below shoulder length.
CO wash: A-O GPB LYY, Salon Care Honey Almond, Devacurl OC, Acure Argan Stem Cell+Argan Oil, Mill Creek Botanicals Keratin Repair
Leave-ins: BWC, KCKT, cno overnight
Styling: BRHG, MGA Sculpting Gel, A-O Mandarin Magic Gel, LOTD AVG, LALSG
DT: Kiehl's Olive Fruit Oil Deeply Repairative Hair Pak, Curl Junkie Deep Fix, Briogeo Don't Despair Repair!
My hair hates gel, mousse and curl creams. My hair loves protein too. I actually take a keratin supplement and use coconut oil, which is rich in protein as an overnight deep conditioning treatment. Once a year I get the Paul Mitchell Awapuhi Wild Ginger KeraTriPlex keratin deep conditioning treatment at the salon that I go to, and my hair loves it. Since I've started taking keratin, I've noticed that my hair has a lot less breakage.
Originally Posted by CurlyShorty3405
What type of keratin are you taking? Supplements?
Originally Posted by Spiralli
I take a 50 mg keratin supplement and then my weekly deep conditioning treatment has keratin and hydrolyzed keratin in it.
2B-2C
Density-Medium/High
Width-medium
Length-Medium

Shampoo-Onesta Hydrating Shampoo
Conditioner-Onesta Hydrating Conditioner
Deep conditioner- Coconut Oil
Styling- Josie Maran Bohemian Waves Argan Hair Mist Texture Volume & Moisture
Leave in- Living Proof Restore Targeted Repair Cream
Sealer: The Body Shop Olive Beautifying Oil

Supplements: 50 mg of keratin, 15 mg of biotin

My hair loves: Coconut Oil, Protein (Keratin)
My hair hates: co-washing, gel, mousse, and curl creams
For good clumping apply your gel on wet hair and try the "scrunch and pump". Nice waves, btw! Your hair reminded me so much of my daughter's, but lately she's given up on wearing it wavy, she never wanted to listen to me when I wanted to show her how to do it... like they say (more or less), "a prophet is not welcome in his own town".
Originally Posted by CGSince2002
I tried this yesterday... with little gel mix with water... I saw some parts that really curled up nicely, the top of my hair, however, was still wavy and frizzy... next time I will add more gel... and will continue experimenting...

Thanks for the compliment
Originally Posted by arel
Too much gel this morning, I think .... I used just a little bit more than last time, but now my ends are stringy.... let's see what can I do to get to a better wave definition...
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,073


My hair hates gel, mousse and curl creams. My hair loves protein too. I actually take a keratin supplement and use coconut oil, which is rich in protein as an overnight deep conditioning treatment. Once a year I get the Paul Mitchell Awapuhi Wild Ginger KeraTriPlex keratin deep conditioning treatment at the salon that I go to, and my hair loves it. Since I've started taking keratin, I've noticed that my hair has a lot less breakage.
Originally Posted by CurlyShorty3405
I missed this before and I need to tell you that is a misconception some people have been spreading around. Any real oil by definition cannot contain any protein, the label will tell you there's '0' grams. What really seems to happen is that c.o. is a penetrating oil that appears to protect the integrity of the hair's keratin, but it doesn't add any, so it's good for healthy hair and hair that's just slightly damaged but it will not do any wonders for truly damaged hair.
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,073
Arel:

Try a honey rinse or add a little to your LI, it enhances curling and adds shine. Do a search here to see how different people use it. In this thread I mentioned my "emergency" spray because I forgot to do the rinse (or add it to the LI), together with the E.S. it gave a lot of curling without having to scrunch. I've also used it
(no more than 1/8 tsp.) mixed with FOTE to give it more holding power.

Btw, if a single hair looks thick then your description of your hair as "coarse" is accurate. Did you use to straighten it often?


My hair hates gel, mousse and curl creams. My hair loves protein too. I actually take a keratin supplement and use coconut oil, which is rich in protein as an overnight deep conditioning treatment. Once a year I get the Paul Mitchell Awapuhi Wild Ginger KeraTriPlex keratin deep conditioning treatment at the salon that I go to, and my hair loves it. Since I've started taking keratin, I've noticed that my hair has a lot less breakage.
Originally Posted by CurlyShorty3405
I missed this before and I need to tell you that is a misconception some people have been spreading around. Any real oil by definition cannot contain any protein, the label will tell you there's '0' grams. What really seems to happen is that c.o. is a penetrating oil that appears to protect the integrity of the hair's keratin, but it doesn't add any, so it's good for healthy hair and hair that's just slightly damaged but it will not do any wonders for truly damaged hair.
Originally Posted by CGSince2002
Geek_Chic already pointed out to me that Coconut Oil doesn't have protein.
2B-2C
Density-Medium/High
Width-medium
Length-Medium

Shampoo-Onesta Hydrating Shampoo
Conditioner-Onesta Hydrating Conditioner
Deep conditioner- Coconut Oil
Styling- Josie Maran Bohemian Waves Argan Hair Mist Texture Volume & Moisture
Leave in- Living Proof Restore Targeted Repair Cream
Sealer: The Body Shop Olive Beautifying Oil

Supplements: 50 mg of keratin, 15 mg of biotin

My hair loves: Coconut Oil, Protein (Keratin)
My hair hates: co-washing, gel, mousse, and curl creams
Arel:

Try a honey rinse or add a little to your LI, it enhances curling and adds shine. Do a search here to see how different people use it. In this thread I mentioned my "emergency" spray because I forgot to do the rinse (or add it to the LI), together with the E.S. it gave a lot of curling without having to scrunch. I've also used it
(no more than 1/8 tsp.) mixed with FOTE to give it more holding power.

Btw, if a single hair looks thick then your description of your hair as "coarse" is accurate. Did you use to straighten it often?
Originally Posted by CGSince2002
Hi and thanks for taking the time to read and reply to my posts. I have soooo many questions regarding hair, I feel bad for asking and/or hijacking threads (like I just did with this one )

I tried the honey with a gelatin PT, I must confess I was scared thinking it would leave my hair sticky, but I was pleasantly surprised my hair was sooooo shiny and soft... and yes, it curled nicely after the gelatin...

Regarding your question about straightening... yes, almost 4 years ago got a 'keratin straightening treatment' that left me with super straight and smooth hair... months later, my hair went back to crazy/frizzy state...

Before that, thanks to a 'friend' that told me that if I used heat protector and a good quality flat iron, my hair would actually be better... my routine was to straighten my hair at least twice a week.

Not sure if the damage is all gone. I stopped getting hair cuts 2 years ago (as mentioned before I went from BSL to CL) Before that, I would get regular hair cuts at least 4 - 6 months and never had hair longer than APL.

But, now that I think about it, my hair strands have always been 'thick' to the touch and the eye... btw, my brother sent me a pic from when I was around 12, and I can see my bangs (my only attempt to have when I was a child) were actually a halo of frizz and a chunk of hair forming a wave stick to my forehead... )
I like the la looks wet look gel better than the sport. I get better hold with the wet look than the sport get. My hair will poof out more with the sport gel.
Originally Posted by curlicious13
Just curious -- does this really give a "wet look"? I already get that at my roots (if I use too little gel, I get frizz so I try to scrunch out the wet look if I can, from my roots). Do you think it gives more of a "wet look" than the sport gel?
Location: Texas
Type: 3b/3c (i), below shoulder length.
CO wash: A-O GPB LYY, Salon Care Honey Almond, Devacurl OC, Acure Argan Stem Cell+Argan Oil, Mill Creek Botanicals Keratin Repair
Leave-ins: BWC, KCKT, cno overnight
Styling: BRHG, MGA Sculpting Gel, A-O Mandarin Magic Gel, LOTD AVG, LALSG
DT: Kiehl's Olive Fruit Oil Deeply Repairative Hair Pak, Curl Junkie Deep Fix, Briogeo Don't Despair Repair!
Taking a keratin supplement is totally unnecessary. It's protein. If you're taking in at least 46 (71 if pregnant or breastfeeding) grams of complete protein daily, your body has the protein that it needs. If you're not, then you need to eat more protein.
Peace,
Morgan

Baby Fine 3B, low porosity, normal density and elasticity
CGing since July 2008
Taking a keratin supplement is totally unnecessary. It's protein. If you're taking in at least 46 (71 if pregnant or breastfeeding) grams of complete protein daily, your body has the protein that it needs. If you're not, then you need to eat more protein.
Originally Posted by Morgan_Adcock
I eat plenty of protein thank you very much. I've noticed a difference in my hair since I started taking keratin (the main protein that hair is made out of, hair is 80% keratin to be exact). So taking keratin has been working for me.
2B-2C
Density-Medium/High
Width-medium
Length-Medium

Shampoo-Onesta Hydrating Shampoo
Conditioner-Onesta Hydrating Conditioner
Deep conditioner- Coconut Oil
Styling- Josie Maran Bohemian Waves Argan Hair Mist Texture Volume & Moisture
Leave in- Living Proof Restore Targeted Repair Cream
Sealer: The Body Shop Olive Beautifying Oil

Supplements: 50 mg of keratin, 15 mg of biotin

My hair loves: Coconut Oil, Protein (Keratin)
My hair hates: co-washing, gel, mousse, and curl creams

Last edited by CurlyShorty3405; 06-09-2014 at 04:53 PM.
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,073
Not sure if the damage is all gone. I stopped getting hair cuts 2 years ago (as mentioned before I went from BSL to CL) Before that, I would get regular hair cuts at least 4 - 6 months and never had hair longer than APL.
Originally Posted by Arel


This part was a little confusing to me. You say you stopped cutting your hair 2 y. ago, but was it when it was still CL or longer? Anyway, you'll have to do some calculation here to determine if all the damaged hair is gone. Hair grows on average 6"/year so in the last 2 years you would've grown about 12" of new hair but any hair you had prior to that, that would be now at your ends, could have some damage, and the older the hair gets the more likely it is to get weak due to "wear & tear". Straightening with a flat iron will still inflict some damage to hair despite the "heat protectant", it's just probably less, and also less obvious because of the 'cones.

Just curious -- does this really give a "wet look"? I already get that at my roots (if I use too little gel, I get frizz so I try to scrunch out the wet look if I can, from my roots). Do you think it gives more of a "wet look" than the sport gel?
Originally Posted by Spiralli
No, it doesn't if you SOTC, it just leaves a nice shine with very good hold. However, watch out if your hair is fine. Since mine is, I have to be careful to not use too much (which I've done a few times)! as it will take the volume away and once or 2x I was even unable to SOTC at the roots.

Last edited by CGSince2002; 06-09-2014 at 04:54 PM.
Sports Gel, oddly enough, has not worked for me!
Newly permed, super fine either 2b or 2c (haven't figured that out yet) hair with low density as well.

Desert-dweller.

Currently using and figuring out:
Pre-poo: Mane & tail conditioner
Low-poo: Burts bee's moisturing shampoo
Wash out: Either trader joe's tea tree or Burt's Bees moisturing conditioner
Gel: Still working on figuring it out. Right now, Pantene 24 hr or Flax seed gel.
The keratin and hydrolysed keratin treatments you've been doing would be responsible for the improvement you've noted. The hair which has already been extruded from your hair follicles receives no further benefit from anything you take in by mouth; and the hair being extruded is built from the complete proteins we all need in our diets.
Peace,
Morgan

Baby Fine 3B, low porosity, normal density and elasticity
CGing since July 2008
This part was a little confusing to me. You say you stopped cutting your hair 2 y. ago, but was it when it was still CL or longer? Anyway, you'll have to do some calculation here to determine if all the damaged hair is gone. Hair grows on average 6"/year so in the last 2 years you would've grown about 12" of new hair but any hair you had prior to that, that would be now at your ends, could have some damage, and the older the hair gets the more likely it is to get weak due to "wear & tear". Straightening with a flat iron will still inflict some damage to hair despite the "heat protectant", it's just probably less, and also less obvious because of the 'cones.
Originally Posted by CGSince2002
Hi CG, thanks again for replying. I got carried away while writing and that might be the reason why the post came out confusing.

When I was using the flat iron, I would go to the hairdresser and get a haircut every 3-6 months, depending on the economy . My hair was always a bit past APL, never made it to BSL... due to the constant cutting.

Then, I stopped the flat ironing and got a keratin treatment. Hair was nice and smooth for a while and then went back to its natural state: rough and frizz!

I left it alone for almost 2 years... no cuts, no nothing... just braiding, putting up in buns, etc. and I reached BSL. Once I decided I needed a trim, I went to this 'stylist' who left me with above CBL. That was at the end of 2011.

When I left the hairstylist, I promised myself I would never let her touch my hair again, so I started googling about trimming my hair and doing home made masks, etc. I found this site and TLHC and learned a lot. I am still learning.... I do a trim every month to every 2 months. I cut around 1 to 2 inches every time.

I know I might have damage at the ends and probably I need a 'professional' cut, but I am afraid that 'professional' cut will leave me with uneven/razor-ed layers.

In the meantime, I continue experimenting with the gel... which btw I still haven't figured out yet. I washed my hair Saturday evening. Put a bit of gel with water ... and left it alone.... bottom layer was nice and formed waves, middle layer was nice too... top layer, not so much lol... Good thing is, I didn't get the stringy hair I had last time.

But obviously, in the morning I had crazy hair... lol... frizzy but not stringy, which I find to be a small victory ....
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,073
Hi CG, thanks again for replying. I got carried away while writing and that might be the reason why the post came out confusing.

When I was using the flat iron, I would go to the hairdresser and get a haircut every 3-6 months, depending on the economy . My hair was always a bit past APL, never made it to BSL... due to the constant cutting.

Then, I stopped the flat ironing and got a keratin treatment. Hair was nice and smooth for a while and then went back to its natural state: rough and frizz!

I left it alone for almost 2 years... no cuts, no nothing... just braiding, putting up in buns, etc. and I reached BSL. Once I decided I needed a trim, I went to this 'stylist' who left me with above CBL. That was at the end of 2011.

When I left the hairstylist, I promised myself I would never let her touch my hair again, so I started googling about trimming my hair and doing home made masks, etc. I found this site and TLHC and learned a lot. I am still learning.... I do a trim every month to every 2 months. I cut around 1 to 2 inches every time.

I know I might have damage at the ends and probably I need a 'professional' cut, but I am afraid that 'professional' cut will leave me with uneven/razor-ed layers.

In the meantime, I continue experimenting with the gel... which btw I still haven't figured out yet. I washed my hair Saturday evening. Put a bit of gel with water ... and left it alone.... bottom layer was nice and formed waves, middle layer was nice too... top layer, not so much lol... Good thing is, I didn't get the stringy hair I had last time.

But obviously, in the morning I had crazy hair... lol... frizzy but not stringy, which I find to be a small victory ....
Originally Posted by arel
Thanks for the detailed explanation! I did have to google hair lengths because I'm only familiar with a few of the terms.

Although by now you've cut off most of the processed/flat ironed hair, your ends still need TLC. Since your hair has been responding well to the protein in gelatin, I think you may like using the VO5 KLS as a LI mixed with a few drops of oil (I saw your pics in another thread and read that you use it to co-wash). It contains hydrolized collagen (what gelatin basically is). Thanks to the recommendation of another curly here (wish I could remember who so I could thank her!) I began using it as a LI too, mixed with a few drops of VCO which leaves my hair very moisturized with no need for gel, I even made a moisturizing spray with them for touch-ups. My hair has been loving it because it can't get enough protein either.

Btw, what do you do with your hair at night?

Thanks for the detailed explanation! I did have to google hair lengths because I'm only familiar with a few of the terms.

Although by now you've cut off most of the processed/flat ironed hair, your ends still need TLC. Since your hair has been responding well to the protein in gelatin, I think you may like using the VO5 KLS as a LI mixed with a few drops of oil (I saw your pics in another thread and read that you use it to co-wash). It contains hydrolized collagen (what gelatin basically is). Thanks to the recommendation of another curly here (wish I could remember who so I could thank her!) I began using it as a LI too, mixed with a few drops of VCO which leaves my hair very moisturized with no need for gel, I even made a moisturizing spray with them for touch-ups. My hair has been loving it because it can't get enough protein either.

Btw, what do you do with your hair at night?
Originally Posted by CGSince2002
Thanks CG, I will try to do that... I just got 2 new VO5 KLS and it's definitely better for CO (I tried Suave Naturals Coconut for a few weeks and I was not impressed) ...

At night I do a lose braid or leave my hair down if I washed it that night...

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