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Old 05-04-2006, 09:28 AM   #21
 
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Once I'm out of my Aubrey, I'm going to try DevaCurl.
Because CO washing has made my head kind of explode into waves. My husband said "You look a little like a dandelion." the other night. He meant it nicely, I assure you, it's just a little....out of control.
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Old 05-10-2006, 06:19 PM   #22
 
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I got my hair cut today, by Lena at what used to be the Arabesque Salon but is now the Lena Cyrus Salon. The place is so new that there isn't even a sign on the door yet.
It was a really good experience. She told me that no, my hair is not actually curly. I have wavy hair. And my thick hair is actually just a lot of fine hair. Surprise!

I was kind of hoping that behind my wavy hair were curls trying to break free, and apparently that's not the case. I also learned that wavy hair really does have different needs than curly hair, and that while she likes the Curly Girl system for actual curly girls, she thinks that much conditioner may weigh down someone's natural waves, especially if we use (as I was using) a heavy conditioner. But hey - she didn't think I was crazy for having read Curly Girl, or for considering going shampoo-free, and she's either read the book herself or had the system explained to her in detail, because she knew what I was talking about. Her advice to me was that I not do it, though, because of my hair type.
I also found out that she thinks having me get a trim every six weeks when I'm growing my hair out is only useful for the stylist to make money. I go back in three months, when she says I'll have enough hair to actually do something with and get a better idea of my wave pattern. She said that in a month, I'm going to think she's crazy, because I'll be desperate for a haircut, but if I really want to grow it out, I have to let it grow and not keep trimming bits off. I assured her that I've invested in hairpins, headbands and barettes.
FWIW, she only cut the back of my hair ( from the earlobes down) because that was length without shape that just made me look untidy, and she cut that wet. Then she dried everything with a diffuser and cut the wave pattern, which was kind of neat. All she did to the top was nip off a few split ends, and she says my hair looks very healthy.
So I'm quite pleased by having found this stylist - via the referral system here, although one person really didn't like her, but hey, you can't get good recommendations from everyone. The salon she was at - Arabesque, on Sheffield - she's purchased from the owner and is calling it the Lana Cyrus Salon. I'll update the notes on her in the referral section.

It was interesting to talk to a professional about the differences between wavy and curly and where the line is between wavy and curly, and how someone with hair my type may actually get less curl if we try to treat our hair like it's curly. The CO washing would have worked for a while for me, she said, and probably given me more curl, but it would have dulled out and gotten less curly as time went on, because of my hair type. Apparently, if I use a really gentle shampoo, I can wash my hair a few times a week if I need to without worrying about stripping anything out, and to be careful of using any conditioner that's too heavy because my thick hair is actually pretty fine. She had a line of hair products, but didn't even suggest I use or buy any of them, saying I probably had plenty if I've been experimenting with the best way to get the best results. She did say Aubrey conditioners tend to be very heavy and I might want to try something else (again with the fine wavy hair), even just to switch to something lighter for a week to see if there's a change. If there isn't, she says that I may be fine with Aubrey. And as I thought - now that I've stopped bleaching my hair, it's not dry, so using products made for dry hair will just weigh it down.

I'll post pictures to my journal once my ankle gets over being pissed at me for leaving the house, even if I was on crutches. She spent a full hour with me, looking at my hair and showing me the growth pattern, the wave pattern, and what it would be doing if it were curly and not wavy. The actual haircut only took a few minutes, because I didn't need much hair cut off. But I'd recommend her to anyone in Chicago.
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Old 05-11-2006, 07:20 AM   #23
 
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Thank you so much for that in-depth review! It does sound like we have very similar hair afterall. Mine is definitely wavy not curly, and it is very thick in volume, but thin to medium in texture. So your stylist's advice can apply to me as well. Though, most of that, I've kind of realized on my own because I've been doing this for a year. But it was really great to have it confirmed by a professional! Thanks again. And I'm glad you had such a positive experience! For us wavies, those can be hard to come by, as I'm sure well know.

P.S. Did Lena talk to you about styling techniques and/or product?
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Old 05-11-2006, 08:03 AM   #24
 
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Whoo hoo! Congratulations on finding a great stylist!

(so...back to ME now )
You said you would recommend her to anyone in Chicago. I'm definitely a curly, not a wavy, and I have never ever had a good salon experience. I live in Madison, WI. I would be willing to go to Chicago for a good cut and styling advice...if the person really "got" my hair and could give me the help I need. Would you go so far as to recommend her to someone who would have to put in several hours driving time?

I've never heard of a good curly stylist in town and I have lots of curly friends. We just kind of...cope.

You've got me all excited now. I'm so glad for YOU that you got information about your hair from someone who can really analyze it and suggest styling and care methods suitable to YOU. And I hope your darn ankle gets over itself--remind it that it is support staff! key word being support
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Old 05-11-2006, 12:57 PM   #25
 
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I'm so glad you found this great stylist who "gets" wavy hair! My hair is also similar to yours, probably medium thick strands but tons of them, and I know that I can over-condition if use something heavy. I use either the Suave Naturals or the Giovanni conditioners and both are light enough for me. I only shampoo once a week though and that seems to work well.
I'm not so sure she's exactly right about the styling aspect of CG though, I think that method can work for wavies. Of course I never did much styling at all before I tried CG, so I don't really know anything different.
Its reassuring to find a stylist who tells you not to come back for 3 months too!
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Old 05-11-2006, 04:49 PM   #26
 
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I do agree with the stylist that the way to grow hair out is to leave it grow, rather than getting constant trims. I have grown out short cuts several times and would go much longer than even 3 months between trims.

I disagree with her that wavies shouldn't use CG. My hair is 2C...coarse individual hairs, and lots of them, and I've had great success with going no-poo. My hair is getting wavier/curlier since I gave up shampoo completely, and it's shinier, not dull. My daughter is a thick straightie...fine hair and lots of them...and she has been shiny and clean using no-poo also. The trick with both of us is not to use too much conditioner. After washing with No-Poo, I only use conditioner on the ends, and I rinse it all out. My daughter doesn't need conditioner at all after using No-Poo. The No-Poo itself is enough of a conditioner for her. I won't go back to shampoo, no matter how many "professionals" tell me that I need to...because I've seen the dramatic improvement in my hair by giving up detergents.
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Old 05-11-2006, 09:27 PM   #27
 
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I think I was a little misunderstood with what the stylist said to me - it wasn't that the CG regime didn't work on wavies, it's that it wasn't really working with me. Which, you know, it wasn't. But she does seem to "get" the whole CO washing thing - and says hey, if it works for you, go for it. But my hair was getting visably (which I could see, when she pointed to it) weighed down by the conditioners I was using, and she said that the CG system just might not be right for me.
However, she did say that if no-poo is what works for you, then more power to you for not having to invest in shampoo! Definitely not a product-pusher.
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Old 05-11-2006, 09:32 PM   #28
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by back2nature
P.S. Did Lena talk to you about styling techniques and/or product?
She said that at the length I'm at right now - barely to my earlobes - the less product, the better. With us fine-wavies, the heavier gels can weigh down hair. So my routine of spraying in some of the Aubrey conditioner/detangler and ignoring it was approved of as perfectly acceptable. I told her that it seemed like my hair got straighter with the Aubrey gel, and she said that's kind of a heavy one, and I might try dilluting it and using it as a gel-mist. Like I said - she's not a product pusher, she figured if I already owned it, I should get some mileage out of it if I could.
I didn't get any more styling tips, sorry, because my hair is so short that "styling" for me is a headband. Or maybe a barette.
She did say that with some product and scrunching and a diffuser, I could have curls, but that I'd have to want to put the time into it, and I'd have to do heat styling. But everything she's told me is preliminary because, remember, barely any hair to work with right now.
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Old 05-11-2006, 09:45 PM   #29
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Castella
You said you would recommend her to anyone in Chicago. I'm definitely a curly, not a wavy, and I have never ever had a good salon experience. I live in Madison, WI. I would be willing to go to Chicago for a good cut and styling advice...if the person really "got" my hair and could give me the help I need. Would you go so far as to recommend her to someone who would have to put in several hours driving time?
That's a looooong drive to get your hair cut - but a friend of mine in Toronto has had so many bad experiences with haircuts there that she only gets her hair cut here in Chicago by a friend of ours. Of course, my Toronto friend works for a Chicago company that brings her here every few months for staff meetings and suchlike, but still.

I liked her. That's all I can say. But someone who's a committed CG or doesn't like having a very opinionated hairdresser or having someone tell you (as she did to me) "bangs will make you look twelve - you have a perfectly nice forehead. no more cutting bangs, especially if you're going to be wavy." which I thought was hysterical, but someone else might be offended about.
Aren't you fairly (I mean a less-mileage) close to Milwaukee? My husband and I have been there (okay, yes, our vacations are pathetic) and it seemed like a real "city." Maybe look into trying a Milwaukee stylist before driving to Chicago for a cut? Because that seems like a big hike for a haircut.
Then again, I just had someone recently sleep overnight on my couch driving in from Green Bay one afternoon to see Brokeback Mountain that night and drive home the next morning.
I did a lot of pre-screening before I chose Lana. There was a lot of poking around on the references on this site, then doing a search on some other "rating" sites like yelp.com and metromix to see if there were any other reviews of the same people. And one of Lana's reviews on this site wasn't positive at all. So it wasn't a matter of just stumbling onto her - I did make phone calls to stylists and talk to them and decide with most that they weren't people I wanted anywhere near my hair with scissors. Lana's salon is just getting off the ground, so she was a little late in calling me back, but she was really willing to talk about curls and how she cuts them and that she's got long curly hair herself that she's had people cut badly in the past. She cuts people with straight hair, too. And she's not cheap - $60 for a haircut may be out of some people's price range, but I know the Chicago market for hairstyling can get a little out of control. One stylist wanted to charge me $125 for the initial cut and consultation - he got dropped from my list pretty quick. But before I drove to Chicago, no matter how much I like my stylist (and I've only seen her once, remember), I'd do some more investigation of people closer to home. Even if it's just calling up salons and asking if they've got someone who specializes in curly hair.
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Old 05-13-2006, 05:04 PM   #30
 
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Henchperson - how long did you try CG? It can take a while for your hair to adjust (I think it took me six weeks), and the conditioner you use to co wash can make a huge difference. I went to a Deva cut and color class last week and one of the things Lorraine Massey said is that when you are trying CG, a single shampoo can set you back for weeks, especially in the beginning.

When I first started CG a few years ago, I tried using Suave naturals coconut as my washing conditioner. It was way too heavy - combine that with my scalp freaking out and greasiness, my hair looked like total crap. For whatever reason (stubbornness, probably), I was determined to stick with it. I did the lemon-aid washes and switched my washing conditioners around until I found something that worked for me (unfortunately, it was $12 No Poo vs. $1.99 Suave lol). I had about six months where I strayed from CG (I had been pregnant and my hair flipped out on me), but I'm back on the wagon again and my hair is happy (and my hair responds well enough to CG now that I can use cheapy Suave conditioners to co wash if I want to)

My might not be all that different from yours once you get some more length - My hair is fine, but there's a ton of it. When it's short, it doesn't curl at all, just waves. Now that I've got longer hair, it is a mixture of very loose spirals, S waves and some classic tighter 3A type curls underneath. I definitely get more curl formation as I get more length. I've got a "character-building" side of my head too, with one side being more wavy and one side being more curly. CG has really brought out the curls and changed the whole texture of my hair. It's worth sticking it out for a few more weeks just to see if you can get it work for you. Maybe switch your products around. You can always do something else if it doesn't.

It's awesome that you found a stylist you trust and got good results from. I'm scared to ever move away from here because I don't know what I'd do without being able to get to the mothership for an appointment
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Old 05-13-2006, 07:20 PM   #31
 
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velvet paws, I didn't actually try the "actual" CG system for that long - the hair types in the book were so radically different than mine that "wavy" was the closest I could find, and shampoo was okay for a "wavy."
Now I'm thinking that I need to go back to trying just conditioner, because my scalp is back to being itchy. And instead of doing what I used to do (rubbing the scalp with oils, then having to shampoo them out the next morning), it might be a better idea to just ditch the shampoo again. Not to mention that those waves I had seem to disappeared.
I realize now that was using incorrect conditioners. My assumption was that if it was on the "list" of conditioners that fit with the CG system, it didn't matter which ones I used. A conditioner was a conditioner, right? Except not, apparently, since Suave Naturals was the conditioner I was using to wash with, and I was using the Aubrey Island Naturals for conditioning. And since the book said a gentle shampoo was okay every so often, I used the California Baby teatree/lavender shampoo on my roots and scalp when I felt like it was needed. Now I've learned that both the Suave and the Aubrey are really heavy conditioners that were making my hair all weighed down, which is probably why the stylist said that CG didn't really seem to be working for me. It's possible that it wasn't CG that wasn't working, it was just those conditioners. Not to mention that the products I was using were also too heavy for my hair, because as I said, I persisted in thinking I had thick hair when what I have is a lot of fine hair.
It's frustrating. I simply don't have enough hair to see any consistent results, and there's no way to suddenly grow more. The top of my hair is just long enough to tuck behind my ears. Most of the time it doesn't seem to matter whether my hair is wavy, straight, or curly, because it's going to end up held back by a bandana or headband or pinned up in barettes to get it out of my face. I may try following the system and actually order the Deva products to give them a try. Until this stylist visit, I'd been under the impression that I needed certain kinds of products (thick, dry hair) and now I've learned that I've got entirely different needs (fine, normal hair). So I found a friend who actuallyhas thick, dry hair and gave her most of my hair products. Along with a copy of CG, by the way. She's thrilled, and I suddenly have a bunch of space in the cabinet right outside my bathroom. She says she has curls instead of waves for the first time since she was about five years old.
I figured a gentle shampoo a few times a week and a light conditioner should keep my hair in fairly good shape until it's long enough to try to encourage the curl. Between the length and the fact that I can't leave the house (ankle tendon damage) to go shopping, it just seemed a lot easier to get into the CG system gradually, rather than abruptly switching. I figured if I used up the rest of my shampoo slowly and don't buy more, that's one way to go CO.
I've been back to every-other-day shampooing for not even a full week and wow, big difference. My scalp is itchy and my hair is nearly straight. Now my problem is which conditioners do I use? Do I just bite the bullet and order the Deva stuff - which is really kind of expensive - or do I futz around some more with the drugstore conditioners? I'm leaning towards the Deva products, because at least now I know what type of hair I have, so I can pick the right products.

So now I've found a stylist....but I'm back to being frustrated, this time because of product confusion. Wah!

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Old 05-14-2006, 11:07 PM   #32
 
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Quote:
Do I just bite the bullet and order the Deva stuff - which is really kind of expensive - or do I futz around some more with the drugstore conditioners? I'm leaning towards the Deva products, because at least now I know what type of hair I have, so I can pick the right products.
That's what I did. I wasn't having much luck with the drugstore conditioners for washing, so I ordered Deva. It works GREAT on my hair. It did take about a month for my hair/scalp to adjust to no shampoo, but it was worth the journey.

This site has good prices on Deva. Their 12 oz is $11.80, but the 32 oz is only $22.50, rather than the $32 that Curlmart charges. They have free shipping over $25.

http://www.cosmeticmagic.com/index.a...TS&Category=62
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Old 05-15-2006, 08:39 AM   #33
 
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I think you don't necessarily have to use conditioner or shampoo every time you wash. I tend to massage my scalp with just water. But since the rain we are having is positively biblical, I tried a condition wash with Suave on Saturday and it cut down the unbelievable amount of frizz I've been having, but normally I don't do that. With the good results I got I may do it more, especially during rainy weather.
I think as your hair gets longer, henchperson, you will be able to cut down on shampoo. I was able to wean myself off except for once a week. The advantage of having tons of hair is that no one can tell when it is oily! At least that's how I survived the first few weeks!
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Old 05-22-2006, 01:07 PM   #34
 
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I think part of the problem is that as a wavy with "normal" hair, I've been overconditioning it like crazy (because of wanting to be curly) and it's now limp and waveless. It's overconditioned and thus, overmoisturized. The Suave is just too heavy for my hair.
So I'm waiting for my Deva to arrive, and I'll give it a try once it does.

Someone on another site recommended Avalon Organics for my hair - it has cones, but no sulfates - and there's a version of it that's "clarifying" that seems like it might work with my hair. Since I'm really not a curly, as the last month of the CG system has demonstrated, the no-cones rule may not apply, so if Deva doesn't work, I'll give Avalon a try. And ditch the Suave, no matter what, because all it's doing is weighing down my hair and making it...kind of slimy. Even when dry, actually. Ick.
I'll let you know how it works. For the moment, I'm using Wella, which is fairly harmless. And my hair is wavy again.
Also, I'm getting rid of the vast majority of the stuff in my "didn't work" cabinet over on the swap board. There's a lot of products that I only had to use once or twice to realize that they were not going to work for me. However, people with actual curls may find them useful, so they're over there for swap or purchase!
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Old 05-22-2006, 02:02 PM   #35
 
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Hi henchperson!

Just FYI...we have similar hair types (wavy, fine in texture, thick in volume) and the only Suave Naturals conditioner that has ever worked for me is the Milk & Honey. All the others that I've tried have weighed down my hair, left it gunky and over conditioned. This one is perfect for me, so maybe it can work for you!
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Old 05-22-2006, 02:07 PM   #36
 
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Double post
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Old 05-22-2006, 02:11 PM   #37
 
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Triple post!
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Old 05-22-2006, 09:38 PM   #38
 
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That's a lot of posts!
I have some of the Milk & Honey - you cannot beat .77 a bottle for conditioner. You see a deal like that, you buy some, even if you're not sure you'll use it.
I will try futzing with it tomorrow, before I see the Evil Orthopedic Surgeon and restrain myself from kicking him in the head while he examines my ankle. "YES, IT HURTS." *kick*
Oh, it would be so satisfying, but I'd probably get sued.
At least my hair will look good, even if my ankle doesn't.
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Old 05-23-2006, 08:17 AM   #39
 
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Sorry about all the posts. My computer was going wonky yesterday.

I hope your ankle gets better soon. Jeez...it sounds so painful when you describe it! Sending healing vibes your way.

I figure if the Milk & Honey doesn't work for you, maybe you could add it to your list that you're making for wavies. (Saw you talking about this on another thread.) Great idea by the way...PM me if I can help in any way!

I use the M&H as my pre-shampoo conditioner as described in CG or as my conditioner wash. HTH!

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Old 05-23-2006, 01:29 PM   #40
 
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With regards to the ankle, it's a bad sprain. A really, really bad sprain. And if one more person tells me that it would have been less painful and faster to heal if I had broken it, I will punch them in the head.
I am out of my cast and into this removable rigid plastic....thing. And thanks to the height of it, I have to wear my husband's athletic socks with it, which is profoundly annoying.
Although on the good side of things, there's a Vitaminshoppe right near the doctor's, so I stopped there and picked up some of the Giovanni stuff. I think I can say with a fair amount of authority at this point that my hair is just not curly enough (or dry enough) for the CG system, so I'm back to washing it a few times a week.
The CG book did give me useful recipes, which I'll use, but going no-poo just makes my hair overconditioned and straight as a stick. I've give the Deva a try, but I have to admit that I'm not holding out a lot of hope.
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