Been lurking, just joined today...*waves*

Hello wavies and curlies!

I'm not sure where to begin. I've been noticing that the longer my hair is getting, the more waves and curls it is getting, and I want to get my hair in shape and make the best of what I have. I think I have 2c hair, with maybe a little 3a loose curls, but I'm not sure. As for texture and porosity, elasticity, etc I don't know. I know that I was told once that I had fine hair, but lots of it being blonde. I'm not sure if that's true anymore. I'm going to ask a curly stylist when I get my hair cut next, but maybe you guys can help me identify things by my pictures.

Here are a few pics:

As a child, very blonde with mild waves



Fairly *naked* hair. I'd just coloured it so it had relaxed a little and was less frizzy/smoother but with some wave.



More defined wave, not sure what I did then to get that, though it was still moderately flat on top and frizzy at the back. Probably needed a wash and had wave from ear tucking.



A fairly good hair day for me except for the unending frizz. Was a day like this that I noticed I had curls in my hair and not just a few random spirals underneath the loose wave.



Just a few days ago after I did a semi modified CG wash, used a t-shirt to dry, used a bit of a conjured leave in and gel, and plopped. Got lots of comments when I posted the pics on FB.



(the whole album is here: http://www.facebook.com/album.php?ai...3&l=0c68bfcf9b)

I'm not sure whether I should go full CG or modified. I think that with the frizz, I might need more moisture and the no poo route might help that, but I also worry about my hair getting too weighed down. I've been using silicone free conditioners and SLS free shampoos for years, but I never realized the alternate sulfates in the shampoos being used were just as bad. I also generally shampoo and condition every 3-4 days which is one reason I never liked using a styling product much.

I'm also having trouble figuring out what to do for styling products. Generally I like my hair to be soft and natural looking but I don't get the definition as much as when I use something like a gel which makes it crunchy and wet looking. I'm not sure if it's just the wrong stuff I am using or if it is my poor technique or maybe something I have to get used to, but right now I feel like my husband can't or won't want to touch my hair even though it looks curlier. Maybe no poo/CG will improve it so that I will have curl and not need a gel, or so much or whatever.

Anyhow, this intro post is kinda vague and random and I hope I didn't post too many pictures, but maybe that'll help me figure what to do and use. Thanks for reading!

Last edited by plunkybug; 02-08-2010 at 02:42 AM. Reason: correction
Sounds like you might already be close to being a modified CG so you may try going full CG. If not, I would start out with some low-poos and see how it goes. For me it was easiest to go this way so I wouldn't get an itchy scalp and get discouraged.

I haven't experienced a lot of crunchiness with gel or mousse, but scrunching once my hair is dry gets rid of any crunchies so I think they are worth a try. They really help me with frizz. Some use a leave in conditioner to help with the crunchies so you may try that if they become a problem.

Your hair is beautiful! IMO, def 2b/c with some 3a potential!

Last edited by curlymelanie; 02-08-2010 at 03:41 AM.
Welcome to the 2's.
know that I was told once that I had fine hair, but lots of it being blonde.
I'm not an expert. I have fine hair and your hair looks fine to my eye in the pictures you posted. Thickness can be determined by measuring your ponytail. Asking a pro is a great idea.
http://thewavytales.blogspot.com/200...wavy-hair.html
You were a cute kid and are a cute adult. I especially love the pic of your hair in the bathroom. Gorgeous.
I'm not sure whether I should go full CG or modified. I think that with the frizz, I might need more moisture and the no poo route might help that, but I also worry about my hair getting too weighed down.
Here is my take on this. If I were you I'd start cowashing. When your hair feels like you need a low poo, I'd low poo. Most people with fine wavy hair will need to low poo occasionally (average is once a week). However I just low pooed for the first time since going CG in october. I have a friend with fine hair that has been CG for over a month and hasn't low pooed. We both have hair that really needs moisture. Do what works best for your hair.
This is a thread with moisturizing conditioner recommendations for fine hair that gets weighed down easily.
calling fine haired wavies
Good Luck
http://pedaheh.blogspot.com/ (a blog to help new wavies, go to the how do I get started page)
2a (nc.com) 2bFi (Fia), very fine, thin, low/normal elasticity, porous, CG, doesn't get weighed down
Cowash: Tresemme naturals
Rinse out/leave in: Renpure Organics (red)
Curl enhancer: FSG
Gel: BRHG, Salon care aloe, Ecostyler Krystal (normal dews)
PT: ION effective care, IAgirl's gelatin PT
Low Poo: renpure (red), Ion swimmers
I don't have much to add to the advice -- this whole CG thing is about experimenting -- but I just wanted to say your hair looks gorgeous! Your pattern is incredible. You almost seem to have Botticelli curls rather than just waves.
Grand Goobah Caedran, Aqueous Infusion of Demulcents, Order of the Curly Crusaders

Fia 2cFi, fine texture, med porosity CG 5-29-09 * My hair loves protein! Currently using : DermOrganics Shampoo and IHM, G2B Kinkier Mousse, Re:Coil VMM, Anything Spiral Solutions! MO Sealing. Coconut Oil Pre-Poo, once a month Hard Water shampoo. Avoiding Glycerin in finishing products.

I'm glad I joined and posted! Thanks for the compliments on my hair...mind you I posted my better pics. The bathroom pic was taken when I snuck out of a meeting my husband was leading with his iphone! :P

I think curlymelanie is right about my hair type (which matches my thoughts so far too)...2b/c with 3a potential. I think I am more a wavy than a curly...I can get my hair fairly straight fairly easily, more at the roots than anything else though. The more I play with it, the straighter it gets.

Having looked at the Wavy Tales blog link (thanks pedaheh), I still think my texture is fine, but bordering on medium, and volume seems normal...about 3.25" in circumference. It's a little hard to tell as I have gunk in my hair and I feel certain I have more volume (except at the roots still...gah!) than I would if I didn't use gel and scrunch and plop.

I haven't tested for elasticity or porosity yet. I permed for a while (about 5 years in all), and coloured longer (working on getting back to my natural colour though), so I'm going to guess that I'm fairly porous. I think that if I were more elastic, my curls wouldn't be so stretched out and long, and they'd be more springy.

So, gathering all the details from various sources, I'm going to hazard a guess that I'm 2b/2c/3aFii, porous and probably not very elastic. I'm hoping to go in for a haircut in the next month or so and get details in my consultation.

I think it will take some experimenting, like goobernut said. I'm going to have to be open and receptive to changes and see if I can figure out things my hair likes and dislikes. I think the more I learn about my hair, the better I will be able to take care of it.

What factors do you look for in deciding what to use as a co-wash, rinse out and leave in? I usually try to pick natural stuff, so I'm hesitant to try the Suave Naturals stuff (which isn't all that natural), but the price can't be beat (especially as I'm fairly broke right now). A lot of people seem to use it and like it. I haven't spotted White Rain or V05 up here yet, but I haven't checked all my local drug stores yet, just the little one in the little neighborhood plaza. I've only checked one natural store so far too. Does anyone use the same conditioner for co-wash and rinse out or leave in?

Thanks for all your help wavies!


Lady Caiside, Noble Lushetarian and Wavy Wayfarer of Mugglswick, in the Order of the Curly Crusaders

2b-3a Fii, porous and low elasticity

Currently using a variety of products, and looking for that magic combo

Hair bio: http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlta...5&postcount=59

Just want to say I love your color! I too am a dark blonde who likes to be sort of amber-y. (Though now it's a bit on the red side.)

FIA 2a-c, ii.
Combo. fine/low porosity & coarse/porous.
Stylers: All-in-one spray, FSG, KCCC
Also using: Inecto condish, WW Tiare Pomade
Dislikes: soap bars, glycerin, protein.
Yawns at: all gels (even LALSG), Seamollient.
http://public.fotki.com/blueroses79/

Just want to say I love your color! I too am a dark blonde who likes to be sort of amber-y. (Though now it's a bit on the red side.)
Originally Posted by blueroses79
Thanks blueroses79! My natural colour is ashy to natural medium blonde much like the second picture. For years I dyed it red, and then dark golden blonde. Right now the ash has faded from the body of my hair and the golden tones from previous permanent colouring are showing. I should redo my colour again soon I think. I'm using semi-permanent now to let my roots keep growing so I can grow the permanent colour out. I like the dark blonde, but I just need to give my hair a break from colouring it for sooooo long.


Lady Caiside, Noble Lushetarian and Wavy Wayfarer of Mugglswick, in the Order of the Curly Crusaders

2b-3a Fii, porous and low elasticity

Currently using a variety of products, and looking for that magic combo

Hair bio: http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlta...5&postcount=59

Very pretty! I really love that last picture.
2a-2bFii NP?

Low poo: Deva Low-Poo, Jessicurl GLS, Moroccanoil Volumizing Shampoo, Aveda Be Curly
Condish: Cure Care, Redken Body Full, Deva One C, and Jessicurl Aloeba
LI: Aveda Be Curly Style Prep <3
Products: Deva FFVF & Jessicurl Spiralicious (LOVE), TRESemme Curl Boosting Mousse
Hairspray: Aussie Sprunch, TRESemme Curl
locking Spray
Experimenting with lots of products in my cabinet...


My hair loves protein, plopping, and diffusing! Trying to find a way to style and air dry.
Thanks blueroses79! My natural colour is ashy to natural medium blonde much like the second picture. For years I dyed it red, and then dark golden blonde. Right now the ash has faded from the body of my hair and the golden tones from previous permanent colouring are showing. I should redo my colour again soon I think. I'm using semi-permanent now to let my roots keep growing so I can grow the permanent colour out. I like the dark blonde, but I just need to give my hair a break from colouring it for sooooo long.
If you are concerned about damage from coloring your hair, I have two suggestions. First of all you can start doing protein treatments. PT's temporarily "spackle" the holes in your hair's cortex shut. Protein is also good for fine hair. Do a search on protein to learn about it. This link can also help.
http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...re.html?cat=69
CG PT's include AO GPB (paraben free), nexus emergencee, Ion effective care, Aphogee (last two from sally's) BTW Nexus Emergencee scored something on the order of a 3 out of 10 on the skin deep website that rates how potentially dangerous products are, which isn't too bad.

If you only want a wash of color (or if you want more color), you may want to look into body quality art henna at hennaforhair.com. There are pluses and minuses for going this route. One plus is it makes your hair seem healthier. One minus is it will stay on your hair until you cut it off. You can dye your hair other colors besides red with henna.
What factors do you look for in deciding what to use as a co-wash, rinse out and leave in? I usually try to pick natural stuff, so I'm hesitant to try the Suave Naturals stuff (which isn't all that natural), but the price can't be beat (especially as I'm fairly broke right now). A lot of people seem to use it and like it. I haven't spotted White Rain or V05 up here yet, but I haven't checked all my local drug stores yet, just the little one in the little neighborhood plaza. I've only checked one natural store so far too. Does anyone use the same conditioner for co-wash and rinse out or leave in?
If you are looking for a more natural cowash, you can use Giovanni TTT conditioner. I think you can also use some nature's gate conditioners.
http://pedaheh.blogspot.com/ (a blog to help new wavies, go to the how do I get started page)
2a (nc.com) 2bFi (Fia), very fine, thin, low/normal elasticity, porous, CG, doesn't get weighed down
Cowash: Tresemme naturals
Rinse out/leave in: Renpure Organics (red)
Curl enhancer: FSG
Gel: BRHG, Salon care aloe, Ecostyler Krystal (normal dews)
PT: ION effective care, IAgirl's gelatin PT
Low Poo: renpure (red), Ion swimmers

Last edited by pedaheh; 02-09-2010 at 10:21 AM.
Thanks for the excellent responses pedaheh. I tried a homemade PT on Sunday with my friend and her daughter. It was made up of eggs, coconut milk, honey, olive oil and vanilla extract (recipe was online). It was very liquidy and gooey (and a bit difficult to apply); rinsing it out and conditioning my hair upside down in their tub was quite awkward and I had a hard time detangling my hair. It feels a bit dry, but I think that's more the fault of the gel I used. So, I can't really say if it made my hair feel any better because I had other factors affecting it. I'll look into more PTs though...it's just a matter of finding a place to get them here. Oooh! I just did a search on Sally's...I didn't think we had one up here, but we do! It's a bit out of the way but not too far away...25 minutes by car or bus.

I've looked at henna before, but it's always seemed too red or too dark, and I admit I've been a little afraid to try it. If there was a clear henna or something that wouldn't show roots, then I might be a little less afraid I think.

I've been looking at Giovanni, Nature's Gate, and Burt's Bees, all of which I can get at my local grocery and drug store..I saw a little AO at the health food store I checked but not the HR (though I'm sensitive to the smell of roses). The Nature's Gate shampoos have sulfates, but the conditioners seem cone free as best I can tell. It's also the most cost effective of them all...$8-ish for 540ml Nature's Gate vs $10-ish for 250ml Giovanni (the BB was somewhere in between). The NG is clearly a better buy money-wise...twice the product and still costs less, but I don't know how it works compared to the Giovanni (or BB). Comparatively, I can get the Suave Naturals for $2-3 here, and LVPNG for about $6 (and those are big bottles too).

So it's a debate...do I go cheap and less natural because I'm crunched for money right now, or do I stick to my guns and go natural even though it costs a little more? Alternatively, I've thought of going half and half (SN for co-wash and something natural as rinse out) or just picking *one* natural condish and using it for co-wash and rinse out. Thoughts?

Oh, and how do you link your hair bio in your signature?


Lady Caiside, Noble Lushetarian and Wavy Wayfarer of Mugglswick, in the Order of the Curly Crusaders

2b-3a Fii, porous and low elasticity

Currently using a variety of products, and looking for that magic combo

Hair bio: http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlta...5&postcount=59

There is a neutral henna--though it's actually another plant (cassia) that is mostly dye-free, unless you have grey or white hair, which it can tint a faint yellow-gold. It's common for people afraid of getting too dark a color to start with a large batch of cassia with just a little henna in it, and/or leave it on the hair for a shorter time. Cons: can't lighten; messy; I find it hard to get it the mix to stick to my roots. (A protein treatment would probably help with that, too! Though I think technically henna is a protein treatment.)

I just save the 'nicer' CO for actual conditioning. Not that that's entirely rational....

FIA 2a-c, ii.
Combo. fine/low porosity & coarse/porous.
Stylers: All-in-one spray, FSG, KCCC
Also using: Inecto condish, WW Tiare Pomade
Dislikes: soap bars, glycerin, protein.
Yawns at: all gels (even LALSG), Seamollient.
http://public.fotki.com/blueroses79/

Thanks for the excellent responses pedaheh. I tried a homemade PT on Sunday with my friend and her daughter. It was made up of eggs, coconut milk, honey, olive oil and vanilla extract (recipe was online). It was very liquidy and gooey (and a bit difficult to apply); rinsing it out and conditioning my hair upside down in their tub was quite awkward and I had a hard time detangling my hair. It feels a bit dry, but I think that's more the fault of the gel I used. So, I can't really say if it made my hair feel any better because I had other factors affecting it. I'll look into more PTs though...it's just a matter of finding a place to get them here. Oooh! I just did a search on Sally's...I didn't think we had one up here, but we do! It's a bit out of the way but not too far away...25 minutes by car or bus.
I had read that, but I forgot. Personally I think the PT's you buy work more efficiently the the homemade ones. The size of the proteins in the ones you buy is optimum for making it into the hair's cortex.
http://thenaturalhaven.blogspot.com/...ning-part.html

All the AO conditioners are CG and have a strong scent. Make sure they can pass your sniff test if you want to buy one. I think using one conditioner as a rinse out and one as a cowash works best for most people. The cowash conditioners have more cleansing agents but aren't as moisturizing. The moisturizing rinse outs don't have enough cleansing agents for cowashing.
If you go to sally's, I like the sally's GVP CB (generic biolage conditioner). 5-6$ a bottle and moisturizing. I'm not sure how much moisture you are looking for. It is too moisturizing or heavy for some.
http://pedaheh.blogspot.com/ (a blog to help new wavies, go to the how do I get started page)
2a (nc.com) 2bFi (Fia), very fine, thin, low/normal elasticity, porous, CG, doesn't get weighed down
Cowash: Tresemme naturals
Rinse out/leave in: Renpure Organics (red)
Curl enhancer: FSG
Gel: BRHG, Salon care aloe, Ecostyler Krystal (normal dews)
PT: ION effective care, IAgirl's gelatin PT
Low Poo: renpure (red), Ion swimmers

Last edited by pedaheh; 02-09-2010 at 06:49 PM. Reason: I miss read. Reading is hard.
"Reading is hard." LOL

Yeah, I think I'll stick to store-bought PTs in terms of reconstructing my hair, and maybe the odd homemade one here or there (something less messy!). I'm sure I'm in for some experimenting! Should be fun, heh!

Thanks for the info on AO. I can't smell the stuff because under the cap they have a little white protector, and none of the places seem to have a tester to sniff. I can do strong scents, but it varies on the scent. I can't do some florals like rose or jasmine, but lavender is ok. I'm sure there are others I can do, and others I can't. I usually get a headache with them. I find the Nature's Gate Herbal a bit strong but I don't mind the scent.

What ingredients should I be looking for in cowash conditioners that indicate they're more cleansing and less moisturizing (and vice versa for the rinse outs)? I mean, for example, if I was looking at Nature's Gate Herbal conditioner, Burt's Bees Grapefruit and Sugar Beet Conditioner and Giovanni 50/50 conditioner, what would I be looking for that says this is more cleansing and this is more moisturizing? Is this a silly question?

Thanks for all your help and links.


Lady Caiside, Noble Lushetarian and Wavy Wayfarer of Mugglswick, in the Order of the Curly Crusaders

2b-3a Fii, porous and low elasticity

Currently using a variety of products, and looking for that magic combo

Hair bio: http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlta...5&postcount=59

What ingredients should I be looking for in cowash conditioners that indicate they're more cleansing and less moisturizing (and vice versa for the rinse outs)?
I'm not 100% sure, but I think cocobetaine is the ingredient to look for in a cowash. Hopefully someone knows for sure.
http://pedaheh.blogspot.com/ (a blog to help new wavies, go to the how do I get started page)
2a (nc.com) 2bFi (Fia), very fine, thin, low/normal elasticity, porous, CG, doesn't get weighed down
Cowash: Tresemme naturals
Rinse out/leave in: Renpure Organics (red)
Curl enhancer: FSG
Gel: BRHG, Salon care aloe, Ecostyler Krystal (normal dews)
PT: ION effective care, IAgirl's gelatin PT
Low Poo: renpure (red), Ion swimmers

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