Your analogy is illogical. They're not reporting hair loss in droves because they're washing their skin with soap or bodywash/facewash and THEN adding moisturizer. I haven't heard of anyone try to wash their skin with a moisturizer for 4 months while vigorously massaging and pulling on their body hair by detangling. Lol! I'm pretty sure I would find my body hair thinning as well if I did that.

Futhermore I find your post unnecessarily condescending. This should be obvious but many aspects of CG are pseudo-scientific. "Overconditioned hair." Help, I think I'm "protein-sensitive." It's not like we all have some definitive way of measuring these things... these are all subjective qualifiers. They help us understand and narrow down what may be going on with our hair. All evidence of cowashing efficacy is anecdotal anyway, which is fine but let's be honest with what it is.

If you can point me to any studies published in peer-reviewed medical/scientific journals that test co-washing efficacy and safety on a large random sample I would be happy to read.

I realize "overconditioned follicle" is not a medical term. For me I used it as shorthand for the point that I think my hair loss is mechanical, and has to do with conditioning (hence softening) the follicle and then pulling it out during the massages/detangling session.

Furthermore I never once said my hair loss could absolutely not come from a specific ingredient allergy or sensitivity, nor a sudden simultaneous onset of a medical condition that also suddenly simultaneously went away when I stopped cowashing. Hey, anything is possible. I'm not being facetious here, I will see my MD and possibly a derm as well about this problem out other variables.

I realize saying anything negative about co-washing on this board is not making me the most well-liked member. Clearly co-washing has its loyal defendants, which is fine. But please understand that I'm not posting all this to be provocative nor to be contrarian. This is my experience. I really wish I could co-wash because my scalp and hair were nice but it had this very negative effect.

Also, other members on the board have spoken up saying they've also experienced hair loss through co-washing. Please respect that our hair/scalp is different than yours and what works for many just isn't working for us and that's okay.
Originally Posted by PomegranateCurl
If you were 'pulling' on your hair then again it's your technique that is at fault not co-washing itself. Haircare 'experts' advise us to be gentle with our hair especially when detangling or when hair is wet, curls or not co-washing or not. There is a huge difference between the amount of gliding massage required to cleanse and vigorous massage or 'pulling' (your words).

I have not questioned your experience in fact I postulated there may be underlying inflammation, I have questioned your unscientific assessment of the root cause as being overly moisturising the follicles. I am hardly a blinkered advocate of co-washing for all, I have said in a number of threads that it doesn't suit those with all dermatological issues or with fine/ thin hair. What on earth a science-based discussion has to do with how 'well liked' you are I have no idea, what a strange comment.

It's not illogical, you being ignorant of it doesn't mean it is not commonplace. Using foaming surfactant shower gels or traditional bar soap and foaming face washes is FAR from universal, spend some time working in pharmacy or dermatology or on skincare forums. There are studies demonstrating the negative effect of these on skin and/ or hair, especially those with pre-existing damage - be that genetic or due to chemical processes (hair).

Plenty cleanse their skin with oils sometimes using lengthy massage and enthusiastic rubbing (see Oil Cleansing Method), which interestingly CAN cause problems with irritation and inflammation in the skin but not, AFAIK, hair loss. Plenty more use cleansing lotions or traditional cold cream on their face twice daily with very similar formulations to hair conditioner, others wash their entire body with products like aqueous cream or products like WEN body cleansing creme. Some who are seeking skin lightening undertake lengthy and complex daily 'exfoliating' routines with a series of chemical laden creams, professional athletes having regular deep tissue massages. THEN on top many of these groups pile on another layer of moisturiser or body lotion containing yet more fatty alcohols and cationic surfactants.

I don't believe true 'overconditioning' of hair is pseudoscience, it refers to keeping the hair wetted for long periods which can partially unravel the structural proteins and loosen the bonds making hair feel soft and mushy, weakening the curl pattern. Some like that effect, for example ladies who 'baggy' overnight. The opposite effect is seen with magnesium sulphate which reduces the water in the core of the hair, tightens the bonds and curl patten.

The possible benefits of CO-washing for dead hair is a different animal to the benefits or detriment for living skin (esp. follicles) which is what we are discussing in this thread. Certain groups of surfactants, especially from the anionic family, are proven to damage skin and hair: co-washing aims not so much to directly improve the health of hair (since unlike skin it is dead) but to maintain more of its natural protective and strengthening structure for longer after it comes out of the follicle. To see how that works you don't necessarily need one study you bring together the results of many, for example the effect of different pH on the position of the cuticle, which harsh ingredients can dissolve or attract structural lipids like 18-MEA and ceramides, the effects of cationics and fatty alcohols on combing friction.

The effect of cream or lotion products containing a wide variety of ingredients that you will also see in hair conditioners has been studied extensively for both efficacy AND safety on the skin. As a result some are known allergens particularly proteins, fragrances and preservatives. Others can alter the skin's permeability with acute or chronic use, strengthening or weakening it. See the Journal of Cosmetic Science, papers on corneobiology or corneotherapy especially those by the late Albert Kligman and his associates, any of the reputable peer reviewed dermatology journals.
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Boots Essentials gel
Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
Experimenting with: benign neglect

Last edited by Firefox7275; 05-25-2013 at 06:05 AM.