Ok, I didn't know I needed a rinse out or a leave in...I don't know what those are lol. I only have been using conditioner (Nature's Gate). I can already tell you I definitely do not get a lather from conditioner...I didn't know conditioner made a lather? Anyway, the conditioner is what I do not wash out all the way because the book said not to. I probably read it wrong. Then after I rinse it out party, I get out, sprunch/plop hair with that special towel, put some gel in it, and wait for it to dry (I have mostly been going to bed with the special towel thing on my head so that it can dry as I sleep).