N/A

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Last edited by twister23222; 03-23-2012 at 11:37 PM.
its not rare. there is a huge thread somewhere on the 4a board about white people with 4a hair. most people who have curly hair tend to straighten--regardless of their race. and ive noticed that particularly when non blacks have 3b or tighter curls, they find it more imperative to straighten their hair. but anywho...

based off of the pics, her curl size looks to be 3b. but since you said she has a relaxer, she very well may have 3c or 4a hair. ignoring the curl size, her hair texture looks alot like my own.

you should definitely introduce her to the CG routine because it looks like her hair is crying out for moisture. and once her hair is properly moisturized, she'll probably have far less problems with it.
Wow, I looked at her pics and she could be my hair twin!! I am white with blue eyes (my family is Dutch) and I have this crazy what I think is 3C hair (I'm still a newb!). I just grew out 20 years of relaxing (last relaxer was 18 months ago). I have really hated my hair most of my life and I think I've spent 10 years of my life just dealing with my hair. Since coming to this site (about a month ago) I have read so much info and for the first time IN MY ENTIRE LIFE, I have put away my curling iron and have been making changes and I've been able to see a lot of progress (and liberation!) from battling this hair for so long. It really is about finding the right products for your hair and the right method that works for you (or her) and trying to work with the curls instead of against them. Get your friend to do lots of reading on this site. If there was ever someone who would NEVER wear her hair naturally it was me and now I'm putting down my sword, the battle is just about over (I'm 44!!). Feel free to ask me anything about my hair and I'm glad to help (but I'm still kinda new at this too!).
~Anita
3c fine and frizzy
Last relaxer Oct 08
Sham: Say Yes to Carrots, Eluence MB
Co Wash: Tresemme Naturals, Say yes to Cukes, Elucence moisture balancing Cond
Leave In: AOHR, Elucence
DC: MC DeepCond, Aussie 3-minute miracle, CJ Curl Rehab
Style with: Curl Keeper/AG Re:coil; KCCC, Jane Carter's Nourish & Shine, KC Gloss Pomade, Coconut Oil

Saved by Grace...I'm a child of the KING!!
I think her hair could be gorgeous if she put some time into it and got a good cut. =)
Originally Posted by violagirl23
i think her hair is gorgeous.

i think she just needs to come to peace with her hair. full, thick, big. not everyone needs to look traditionally caucasian. that's my opinion b/c i have hair like her and people definitely are not used to it but trying to hide it in a short cut or with a ton of product isn't really going to make it look it's best, IMO.

actually, i used to only see caucasian women with their entirely natural head of curls out but i like that now i do see a lot of women of color models in magazines and in store display photos with very full, genuinely natural curls.

in my first-hand experience of going natural with very coarse hair, sometimes i wish there were more of us with this type of hair so our hair wouldn't be viewed as needing changing or improvement.

i feel better embracing what makes me unique rather than fighting it. and i think her hair looks pretty and i'd vote for her to actually grow it longer.
curly cookie: i'm going to send you a PM or send me one. you and i could be hair twins! our hair is pretty rare too. i'd love to swap tips.

i've been on the board for a few yrs and CG for about 6 yrs.
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,630
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It looks like she has coarse 3b/3c hair.
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Last edited by twister23222; 03-23-2012 at 11:37 PM.
love love love love love love the first haircut!!!!!!
I used to cut it like that before but I have 3b hair so it looked a little different. I used tu use a lot of hairspray and scrub my roots when my hair was dry so it could stand like that!!! loved my little curly affro!!! I always wished to have 3c so it could stand like that on its own. anyway i vote for first image!
3b hair, low poo
shampoo: bioderma sulfate free once every 10 days or so.
co wash: garnier triple nutrition.
condish: garnier triple nutrition, garnier ultra doux with avocado and shea butter.
leave in: same as condish.
DT: phyto anti age.
oil treatment: phyto huile d ales, coconut oil, argan oil.
styling: vivelle clear gel, l oreal curlpower mousse
there have been discussions on the board noting that "frizzy" is not a bad thing.

some hair is frizzy naturally. and it's not going to lose all of its frizzy texture no matter how much the person or other people think it should.

when you put moisture or product on hair, your hair still has the same texture. and really coarse, frizzy hair is probably less likely to be hold a different look with just hair products alone. even a 400 degree flat iron or pressing comb doesn't change my hair's look in humid weather, for example.

of course, any hair type should be in good condition.

very coarse or naturally frizzy textured hair is gorgeous.

i don't see how a person with full hair can say she doesn't want it full but she wants to be natural.

anyone with hair like hers will tell you that cutting it short isn't going to give her thinner or flatter looking hair.

she needs to cut off the damaged hair. go CG and use adequate moisture. a good styler will offer a bit more curl definition but it may also give her harder feeling or crunchy, gelled looking curls.

Last edited by mm2ndj; 05-22-2010 at 11:05 AM.
I'm guessing her texture is coarse and she is at least a 3b. She should do the CG routine. As someone with coarse hair, I would suggest waiting until her hair is healthy before cutting her hair super short. I would also suggest not going shorter than a mid-neck length bob. Coarse hair, regardless of whether it's straight, wavy or curly, has a tendency to take up space. And with having red hair very short, she may get Orphan Annie references.

Also, most coarse-hair curlies benefit from leaving in rinse-out conditioner as the hair dries. Coarse hair needs a lot of moisture. And plenty of white women have 3c hair, but like Subbrock said, most straighten it. I think 4b is about the only curl pattern rarely seen on someone who isn't predominantly black African, although it is common in North Africa on people who appear white with the rest of their phenotype.
3b/c, medium-coarse, low porosity, high density
HG: Jessicurl Too Shea and Kinky Curly Curling Custard
Shampoo: nonsulfate shampoo and Suave Naturals sulfate shampoo when needed


By the way, subbrock, I looked at your fotki.. your hair is GORGEOUS! I love it! It looks so healthy and defined and... beautiful!
Originally Posted by violagirl23
thank you!
there have been discussions on the board noting that "frizzy" is not a bad thing.

some hair is frizzy naturally. and it's not going to lose all of its frizzy texture no matter how much the person or other people think it should.

when you put moisture or product on hair, your hair still has the same texture. and really coarse, frizzy hair is probably less likely to be hold a different look with just hair products alone. even a 400 degree flat iron or pressing comb doesn't change my hair's look in humid weather, for example.

of course, any hair type should be in good condition.

very coarse or naturally frizzy textured hair is gorgeous.

i don't see how a person with full hair can say she doesn't want it full but she wants to be natural.

anyone with hair like hers will tell you that cutting it short isn't going to give her thinner or flatter looking hair.

she needs to cut off the damaged hair. go CG and use adequate moisture. a good styler will offer a bit more curl definition but it may also give her harder feeling or crunchy, gelled looking curls.
Originally Posted by mm2ndj
it happens all the time. i can't even tell you how many threads have been started about this, particularly in the 3c and 4a boards, which seems really crazy considering 3c and 4a hair types tend to go out rather than down. thats why kinky curly and miss jessies will never go out of business.
I think there's a difference between big, dry, frizzy hair and defined, tight 3c/4a curls with moisturized frizz. Some people truly don't like having "big" hair, so these people will more than likely alter their curls. However, if you wear your hair natural and you have curls that grow out instead of down, eventually you will accept the fact that your curls will never lie perfectly against your head. Honestly, the same could be said of 3a and some 3b curls, although the largeness may not be as noticeable.
3b/c, medium-coarse, low porosity, high density
HG: Jessicurl Too Shea and Kinky Curly Curling Custard
Shampoo: nonsulfate shampoo and Suave Naturals sulfate shampoo when needed
Well, I asked her about it, pasted Struttswife description of hair textures, and she says she thinks hers is probably medium (and not coarse). All of you guessed it was coarse though, so out of curiosity, how does hair *look* coarse? Does coarse curly hair sit differently than other types?

I will definitely try to convince her to do CG, since I think it could benefit her a lot more than it did me (I get OCed and greasy easily) because a) red heads tend to have less hair follicles and b) tightly coiled hair like hers tends to get a lot less sebum down the hair shaft, so I think those two combined would make her hair NOT really get oily.. so I bet with CG she'd have no problem, and her hair IS so dry when she wears it natural.. hopefully I can convince her to try it.
I don't think hair can "look" coarse, since coarseness describes the diameter of the strand. Unhealthy coarse hair is often dry or rough looking though and healthy coarse hair can have a wiry texture due to the thickness of its strands even though it is well moisturized. And coarse curlies often seem to have denser hair because our strands are literally larger than fine hair strands. So sometimes people say "coarse" when they really mean dry hair or dense (thick) hair.
3c/4a OS curls
Poo: Mehandi Zizyphus Spina Christi and Juniper Shampoo Bar
Co-wash/Detangler/Leave-in: V05, Giovanni SAS, Tresemme Naturals, Suave Naturals, GVP Conditioning Balm, Aussie Moist
DC: henna, AOHR, AOWC, Yes to Carrots, DevaOne
Sealing: cocoa butter

Natural since 1990, BC #3 September 2008
I don't think hair can "look" coarse, since coarseness describes the diameter of the strand. Unhealthy coarse hair is often dry or rough looking though and healthy coarse hair can have a wiry texture due to the thickness of its strands even though it is well moisturized. And coarse curlies often seem to have denser hair because our strands are literally larger than fine hair strands. So sometimes people say "coarse" when they really mean dry hair or dense (thick) hair.
Originally Posted by aubin
ITA w/ aubin.

I think people are noticing that your friend's hair is very dry and looks somewhat kinky. Her hair can either have a naturally kinky texture, or it might just lack moisture. Once moisture is retained, if her hair isn't kinky, then her hair will have a smoother appearance. Your friend probably has medium hair type, since it is the most common strand size.
3b/c, medium-coarse, low porosity, high density
HG: Jessicurl Too Shea and Kinky Curly Curling Custard
Shampoo: nonsulfate shampoo and Suave Naturals sulfate shampoo when needed
i said it looks coarse because to me, it actually looks like i can see individual strands. like in the first pic, i feel like i can see her strands of hair that make up each clump of curls. and the last pic you can see the strands that make up the miniscule bit of frizz near the front of her hairline. so that's what leads me to believe that her hair is coarse. my SO has coarse, thick type 2 hair and there is somethnig about her hair that reminds me of his. based off the pics, i feel like i know what her hair would feel like if i touched it.
her hair looks like mine.

in fact, i have called my hair "Scottish hair".

i can tell you that i have extremely coarse hair.
i maybe be a 9-10 on the Curl Junkie diameter coarseness scale.

i agree her hair is dry. you are right to notice that issue. especially if she isn't CG and she's using relaxers.

mainly, i think CG for very coarse, frizzy-type, 3b curls is about acceptance more than anything. especially after years of wearing our hair very straight.

Last edited by mm2ndj; 06-01-2010 at 04:53 PM. Reason: i had to mention that my hair is very similar to hers
I'm so white that my (Caucasian) husband calls me "Casper" (as in Casper the Friendly Ghost), and I'm a 3b/3c gal who hasn't touched a relaxer in her life.

I think she'll be happier with it if she gets some length, gets some moisture, and stops effing around with her hair so much.

Here's my hair when "brushed":


And here's my hair when air-dried and left alone:



Curly hair has a mind of its own, and trying to get it to submit to your will is an exercise in frustrated futility.

Let it be curly and save yourself the heartache!!!
--combination 3b/3c, CG method since Oct 2009
--former Product Junkie, now a Product Minimalist
--using henna to cover gray and add oomph to strawberry-blonde hair
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Last edited by twister23222; 03-23-2012 at 11:37 PM.

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