Good product to stretch curls for 3b/c hair

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Summer is pretty much here in Southern Cali, it's already getting to 80 everyday, and I live in an apartment with no real air conditioning, so blow drying an flat ironing like I have been won't be an option very soon. So I'm hoping to find a products that'll allow my natural hair to not puff up once dry, will stretch out my curls nicely without my hair feeling brittle, keeping it soft and bouncy.

I have 3b or 3c hair btw that when flattened it's to my braline, but when natural it's just one huge ugly fro.

Last edited by lydia ravenswood; 04-16-2014 at 05:43 PM.
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 279
I want to know this too . I am dreading the Summer when my hair will draw up whether I've stretched it or not
yeah it's a pain cause it's soo much easier for it to turn all 70s diva fro on me which I HATE! This is what I'm hoping to find a way to get to:

or this:

basically all the poof gone cause if i could have my hair the way i want it would be BONE straight, nothing to it, no body or waves nothing..but i wasn't born with it that way, so having the fluff and poof gone and my curls defined while hanging long would be amazing.
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 279
there seems to be an abundance of suggestions on how the 1s and 2s can tighten their curls to 3s but nothing to go the other direction. Seems quite biased toward the looser curl patterns and achieving only their goals. They are told they are pattern X with potential to change to pattern Z etc. HELP: 2C or 3A (Pic included)
No such suggestions for tighter curlies to achieve their goals whatsoever. Rather it seems frowned upon for us to have any particular hair goals aside from the status quo. A VERY one sided system favoring strictly the 2s modifying their hair to 3s
I think our only option will be Brazilian Keratin Treatments Lydia

Last edited by dixygirl; 04-16-2014 at 07:05 PM.
Yeah and that is expensive to keep up. i used to get my hair relaxed and i finally stopped after several yrs, and haven't used any chemicals, even dying, for over 2yrs.
but like you for some reason saying "I want loose but defined curls" is some kind of an insult or it just impossible to do. Which honestly makes no sense whatsoever.
There has to be a store bought product and way to stretch them out!
Hey :-)

Well....
What products do you already use? What does ur hair like/hate?

I live in the State of Humidity (Florida)...i find that products like Kinky Curly on top of TN conditioner keeps my curls elongated and moisturized.

The more moisture u have in your hair...the less frizz/poof there will be.

Sent from my LG-LG730 using CurlTalk App
2yrs 7 months post relaxer/2 years and 11 months natural

Cleanse: SM Moisture Retention or Suave Naturals shampoos
Co-Wash: Suave Naturals, L'Oreal EverCreme or EverCurl
RO/Detangler: Tresseme Naturals, GVPCB
Leave-In: SM Curl Enhancing Smoothie, TN, GVPCB
Styler: EcoStyler, GF Pure Clean gel, KCCC

Just discovering my hair likes protein!

Right now I'm using a combo of Suave Almond and Shea with Sleek conditioners before I detangle, braid in four sections the first night then the second blow dry then flat iron, I've been doing this for the past 5 months or so since I've been able to do this with the "cooler" weather. My hair has grown since, so I don't really know what to use as the last time I tried my hair way over fluffed even with ECO gel in it. I've tried the Olive oil lotion and it just makes my hair feel dirty and the smell is horrid. AND it doesn't get rid of the puff.
It's doesn't help I'm on an EXTREME budget, so anything over $10 is too much since I know there's no way I'd be using like tiny amounts to make something last for like 3-4months at a time. It's why I finally figured out the Suave conditioners which are $2.50 for the XL size ones at Target work. I mean if I could find a product that'll tame my curls to make them fall like the women in the photos and are around that price I'd be grateful!
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,073
It's really not the products but the technique, women in photos are not a very realistic example, Halle Berry is famous for wearing lace front wigs, she keeps her own hair very short... The other actress probably just has that type of curl all the time, but it's easy for any actress to have an expensive stylist at her beck and call to create those styles.

Ladies, you just need to visit Youtube more often! There's lots of wonderful videos for all types of hair in a variety of very creative routines that I tip my hat to like the one in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAEVoF_NQNE

Here's another way: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0E1BFZagqrg

And another: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klU9RV4gkt0 (and I saw another similar to it).

Now you can experiment a bit and not feel anymore like you're all alone in your desire to stretch your curls.
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 279
Thank you CGSINCE. My issue is that the ladies with type 2 hair and loose type 3 hairs are given an INALIANABLE RIGHT to tighten their hair ONE FULL LEVEL from type 2 to type 3 anything they want to be!
Meanwhile, in the curly girl system, it is indoctrinated that type 3s and 4s who wish to stretch or enhance their curl pattern in any way whatsoever are engaging in SELF HATRED and to be shunned. We are told we have NO RIGHT in the curly girl system to even desire to loosen our curls at all. We are to accept them exactly as they are or be ostracized as sell outs. The products which do offer droop; and curl enlargement are demonized because the curly girl system is severely biased toward ONLY the needs of the Caucasian women who wish to have "potential to change their hair types to " type 3 whatever!
Thank you for referring us to our own resources on youtube that share with us techniques to ENHANCE our hair type since curly girl only tells us we have NO RIGHT to enhance much less potential to do anything to our hair other than the status quo.

PS Women with loose waves are given free reign to use salts with coconut oil and water which will tighten their hair a full level to level 3. Everyone with half a brain knows that salt will severely dry out the hair. Meanwhile, silicones which will give a subtle droop to type 3s is demonized as drying even though it is NOWHERE NEAR as drying as salts that type 2 women are given free reign to use. WHY? The answer is quite obvious. The curly girl system is designed strictly with the needs and the desires of looser Caucasian women in mind to the painfully obvious detriment of more ethnic hair types and their needs. No one can tell me that silicone conditioners are anywhere near as damaging as salt on the hair. Salt even destroys asphalt within weeks of a snow. Yet since it is useful to the goals of women with type 2 hair, it is allowed. Need I say more? NO research whatsoever is invested in methods of enhacing or enlarging tighter hair types in the curly girl system. The only focus is on tightening type 2s and looser type 3s to be whatever their heart's desire. If a type 3 or 4 dares to suggest she desires any enhancement, she is preached that she is hateful of her self and should desist and abandon all such hopes and accept exactly what she has. Meanwhile, type 2s are told she has full potential to change to whatever she desires.
curlypearl likes this.

Last edited by dixygirl; 04-30-2014 at 10:18 PM.
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,073
I totally agree that everyone should do with their hair whatever they want. I have even noticed that negative attitude regarding all types of hair coloring, but some curly heads can stand even bleaching without falling apart.

I hope in time you won't let the extremists bother you, in this world, no matter what the subject is we're always going to find people of the total opposite opinion, and some who are actually offended if others don't agree with them. IMO those people have "issues" and still have a lot to learn...

I don't know if you read some place else where I said I grew up in a place where straight hair is the "good hair". Curls were only encouraged if fashion dictated so, but then, because most people chemically relaxed their hair the curls I saw were structured curls done at a salon... So it took me years to "liberate" myself from that (during the late '80s), but at the time my hair was just wavy and the low humidity where I lived made it easier for me to like it.

But in 1997 I moved to S. FL where the high humidity threw me for a loop, I had no clue about what to do. Back then there were no books or good products for curly hair, or the internet so one could ask other curlies what to do, so I went through my own lot of frustration, and in desperation chemically straightened my hair again and even though the product (which was discontinued not long after that) was very mild it still damaged my mostly fine hair. I think I survived mostly with roller sets for several years, but I'd observed more curl in my hair and wanted to be able to wear it like that so I experimented and was able to pull it off but only for one day at a time. So when I found the CG book it was truly a godsend for me.

But let me tell you that a few weeks ago I was watching videos on Youtube of AA women with natural hair and then one video came up of a girl saying why she hated the natural hair community... I was intrigued so I watched and was amazed to see how people are always trying to tell others what to do and not to do. I am SO glad to be older now because such things only make me roll my eyes.

When it comes to silicones, the truth is that for many the abuse of them can ruin the hair because silicones mask the true state of the hair and those who straighten daily may end up with totally fried hair. I, of course, avoided them like the plague in the beginning, but then I learned a lot about different ingredients in hair products and how they interact and that helped me lose my "fear" of the occasional silicone.

I recently bought White Rain's Coconut CO again even though it contains dimethicone. I'd stopped buying it when one day re-reading the label I saw the "evil 'cone" on the list... but in reality I'd never noticed any problems because I constantly alternate COs... So, as long as it's not at the top of the list and I don't use them all the time, there's no problem. I even have a straightening serum that I've used a couple of times, but more often than not I don't even remember, this week I've been straight, and all I used was a rich LI. But to be honest, I only like the convenience of "straight" hair because I can go longer between washes, but not really how it looks on me now that I'm older and my face is round.

When you mentioned salt in the hair I remembered a Garnier spray for "beach hair" I bought quite a while ago and I think I used only once (and can't remember what it did...). Thank God I got it at a dollar store because I asked myself why I did that, lol! It does have some other good ingredients but it's like I was always afraid to put it in my hair...

At one point I also advocated for more natural ingredients in hair products but lack of funds forced me to go "cheap" so I just try to avoid the worst and don't worry about the rest. The same thing happened with food, I can't afford organic foods so I have to do the best with what I have, so I don't sweat it anymore either.
curlypearl likes this.

Last edited by CGSince2002; 04-17-2014 at 06:24 AM.
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 279
CGSINCE2002, I can totally see that you would avoid cones like the plague because they would loosen your already large curls. In the same way, I do avoid salt like the plague because I do not want to shrink my hair down a level to even smaller, tighter curls. So I am not saying cones would be good for you but they would help with a tiny bit of curl enlargement that some tighter girls might welcome. Maybe I will have to do the research myself to try to find some other products that will help stretch the tighter curled ladies since no one else is . I know that castor oil provides me elongation, but it makes my hair way too oily. So perhaps someone will find a solution over the years. My hair is in twists now, when I take them out I will try to make a fsg w/ castor oil an a few other things and just keep trying through trial and error to find a solution that works for elongating curls.The problem will come when type 2 ladies critique products that work for tighter 3s and 4s and dogmatically try to stop us from using things that DO work for our totally different hair types. Of course we will have to use totally different products if the 2s clearly want shrinkage a whole level smaller than their natural curl, and many 3s and 4s would be happy with stretching or elongations. I will NEVER demand that type 2s use what works for me dogmatically because I have sense enough to know we want totally different things out of our opposite hair types. Unfortunately, the 2s often don't use the same logic, rather they try to demand tight 3s and 4s use their bible. This will never work since we want totally opposite things from our opposite hair types

In the same way, I actually think it is perfectly GREAT that CG caters primarily to the needs of 2s and looser 3s. I have no problem with that at all! I also have no problem with how Teri LaFlesh caters to the needs of tight 3s and loose 4s. My problem, is when the groups pander to the dollars of those whose hair their techniques DO NOT HELP and pressure them into following their inappropriate systems just for financial gain or broadening their fan base with folk who their system does not totally benefit. I also have a real problem with groups dogmatically and universally putting down products that will work for people who have different hair types making them question the things that would actually benefit the hair of others. People have to have sense enough to make distinctions like X will work if you are looking for A, and Y will work if you're looking for B from your hair. There is no one solution that works for diametrically opposing hair types. ( I also did hair for over a decade and taught in cosmetology school. But that was all over 20 years ago)


Oh LYDIA!!! I just read what I wrote! You will probably really benefit from Teri LaFlesh's techniques from her book "Curly Like Me" Her techniques ARE designed for people with TIGHT hair like yours and mine! I got her book from the library and if I actually wore my hair curly like you do, I would most certainly use her techniques.
She is biracial and always struggled trying to use the techiques that worked for those other folks.

Here was her hair as a little girl

Anyways, she leaves in conditioner in the hair instead of gel. Specifically she weighs down the hair with conditioners containing ingredients that give the hair WEIGHT. Silicone is good for our hair types according to her because it gives a little weight that OUR hair type needs (and she has grown hers down past tail bone length and very healthy so I would say she knows what she's talking about when it comes to OUR hair type) Then she smooths through the thick conditioner in small sections with a denman brush while still wet and lets it air dry like that weighed down with thick conditioners that she leaves in. ( The loose ladies will immediately butt in and attack using a denman brush, but anyone with AA hair knows that tangle tamer brushes or the like are great for our hair when wet though those that criticize don't need them. So we have to just learn to ignore them.Again, neither denman brushes nor silicone conditioners have damaged Teri's hair as it is currently classic length and looks far better than ever when she used Eurocentric hair techniques.)
Her website is Welcome
Here are some of her videos. Please subscribe to her channel and see if you can find her book! I REALLY think this is far more appropriate for OUR TIGHTER hair type especially for wash and goes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dDGcfTqhmY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gwRVX7YzRw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANp9exXRHkY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUuLQXzSgqM
She recommends braiding or twisting the hair at night
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hkNIKK3h3k
This is how big her hair looks when she does NOT use her system. Unfortunately, that's how my hair looks in my avatar.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxdKHp6Zdj8
Teri is often marginalized in favor of the cg techniques but actually I think her techniques are far more appropriate for OUR tighter hair types.
Here is another page about her
http://absolutlymostbeautiful.blogsp...i-laflesh.html
and here are some more links about her

Website - Tightly Curly http://www.tightlycurly.com/welcome/
Book - Curly Like Me
Blog - Former Mushroom Haired Child http://formermushroomhairedchild.blogspot.com/
Her readers Before & After pictures http://www.tightlycurly.com/photos/beforeandafter/

Oh I have made the decision to start wearing my hair naturally curly once it grows about 6 inches longer. I need to grow the additional length so that it will be long enough for my tastes once it shrinks with curls. I would absolutely not be happy with a shorter look on my large face. I will probably try Teri's method with conditioners, III Sisters of Nature Curling Gelo, 1/2 fsg 1/2 shea butter w/ oils, Kinky Curly Curling Custard or III Sisters of Nature Spiral Pudding. From what I have gathered, the III Sisters of Nature Spiral Pudding does not shrink the hair. Although I love the ingredients in KCCC, it has one SALT preservative which will shrink the hair (pottasium sorbate)
III Sisters of Nature Curling Gelo is similar to KCCC but is more elongating actually than KCCC. I have a feeling that 1/2 Flax seed gel 1/2 whipped shea butter with castor oil might be just as strong a contender as any of the others.

NATURAL CONDITIONERS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doAEX67w0_o
Coconut milk with lemon or lime juice have been used by Asian women for centuries to loosen the hair texture
Yogurt has also been used for centuries by women in India to soften curls and frizz.
Adding Bragg liquid aminos with the yogurt works synergistically to enlarge curls and reduce frizz.

Last edited by dixygirl; 04-17-2014 at 04:59 PM.
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,073
Hi again Dixy, I myself had to learn through observation that "hair is hair" as taught in beauty schools (at least years ago) was a fallacy, so I learned to not be dogmatic about anything regarding hair care.

And with the wisdom that comes with experience I also learned to apply that to other areas of life such as nutrition, politics, etc. Today, you could even say my "mantra" is "Moderation in all things". I feel a well-rounded person should be balanced in their beliefs or at least respect those of others (as long as it's not anything really harmful...). I too get a little annoyed when someone applies their narrow view to hair products, but most of all when they bash something because it didn't work for them. I think such an attitude is ignorant, egotistic and arrogant because it carries the very wrong assumption that everyone's the same, or like them, and/or that they know "everything".

Actually, I never noticed the bit of dimethicone in my WR CO elongating my curls and until you mentioned it I wasn't even aware it could do that. The only thing that bothers me when my hair is less curly is the lack of volume, most of my hair is baby fine and the hair at the back of my head is like 2A and sometimes like to hang nearly straight, so I usually diffuse dry partially so I can push the hair up from the ends while drying and help it curl up.

The thing with 2s and some 3s about wanting more or tighter curls is funny but true, even I had some "curl envy" in the past, but eventually we all realize that it's better to accept and enjoy the hair we have

My hair has actually become curlier since I started CG and I heard that from other curlies, so I wonder if shrinkage is a bigger issue for 3C's & 4's who never shampoo... That's why everyone needs to experiment and see what works without getting hung up on wanting to follow a routine to a T, it's not a religion for heaven's sake!

People came down hard on Lorraine Massey when she published "Curly Girl" because it had very little about extra-curly hair, and the examples illustrated there were very poor, but I'm thinking that perhaps she had not had much experience with those curls so she did the best she could at the time. But I hear what you're saying, I wouldn't have liked it one bit to feel left out, I just lucked out by fitting into one of the categories in the book and not have particularly finicky hair.

I have not read her new book so idk if it's any better but I do know that these days there are tons of books, blogs and articles on the 'net from those who through trial and error solved their tight curls problems, so with a bit of diligence and patience I'm sure you can find some other gems like Teri LaFlesh, of whom I hadn't yet heard before, so thanks because now I can pass that on to others too.
One thing that relaxed my curls a lot is those so-called curl activators, especially the kind that was popular years ago for the Jeri-curls. The main ingredient is glycerin but I don't think that's the only reason... Anyway, it's one of those "funny" things because I watched a video where an AA girl said if she used to much the one she used gave her shrinkage and she said it was the glycerin in it...

If I remember correctly, Miss Jessie had a product and a technique to elongate and define curls, that was on her website years ago but I haven't been there in years... perhaps a search will turn up something.

Btw, and while a bit unrelated, you may be surprised to read that I LOVE going to ethnic beauty supply stores! They have much more to choose from than Sally's or the average store, especially in years past. My hair has always needed some oil and there I could find richer products to fit my hair's needs. I just don't use much when I'm first trying one out to see in case it's too rich, but surprisingly, some I even had to "enrich" (like Hollywood Beauty OO Creme), or use much more than I'd thought, like the Echo Styler OO Custard I got recently. Over the years I've found there quite a few products that became staples for me, like the ORS Loc & Twist Gel which I love.



I'm actually really glad reading everything you two have been saying, and like you Dixygirl am biracial as well, and my hair...like everything else, lands right in the middle of being white and black. I did just check out the women you posted about and I have noticed with my flat ironing using cons and a leave in have helped greatly...but not with leaving it on its own. I need to find the correct con for leaving it curly now. AND to try out some of the techniques as well that BOTH of you posted!
Lydia, you may also want to check out some of Miss Jessie's products and styling methods. For years they have made a fortune "turning kinks into curls". I know that tag line infuriates some curlies, but since it sounds like what you want, you might as well check them out. I know they've recently put some new products on the market that might be of help to you. Btw, I like your fro.
I did try a free sample of something by Miss Jessie when my hair was much shorter and it did kinda help..the problem is their products are SUPER expensive...like WAY out of my budget
I totally agree that everyone should do with their hair whatever they want. I have even noticed that negative attitude regarding all types of hair coloring, but some curly heads can stand even bleaching without falling apart.

I hope in time you won't let the extremists bother you, in this world, no matter what the subject is we're always going to find people of the total opposite opinion, and some who are actually offended if others don't agree with them. IMO those people have "issues" and still have a lot to learn...

I don't know if you read some place else where I said I grew up in a place where straight hair is the "good hair". Curls were only encouraged if fashion dictated so, but then, because most people chemically relaxed their hair the curls I saw were structured curls done at a salon... So it took me years to "liberate" myself from that (during the late '80s), but at the time my hair was just wavy and the low humidity where I lived made it easier for me to like it.

But in 1997 I moved to S. FL where the high humidity threw me for a loop, I had no clue about what to do. Back then there were no books or good products for curly hair, or the internet so one could ask other curlies what to do, so I went through my own lot of frustration, and in desperation chemically straightened my hair again and even though the product (which was discontinued not long after that) was very mild it still damaged my mostly fine hair. I think I survived mostly with roller sets for several years, but I'd observed more curl in my hair and wanted to be able to wear it like that so I experimented and was able to pull it off but only for one day at a time. So when I found the CG book it was truly a godsend for me.

But let me tell you that a few weeks ago I was watching videos on Youtube of AA women with natural hair and then one video came up of a girl saying why she hated the natural hair community... I was intrigued so I watched and was amazed to see how people are always trying to tell others what to do and not to do. I am SO glad to be older now because such things only make me roll my eyes.

When it comes to silicones, the truth is that for many the abuse of them can ruin the hair because silicones mask the true state of the hair and those who straighten daily may end up with totally fried hair. I, of course, avoided them like the plague in the beginning, but then I learned a lot about different ingredients in hair products and how they interact and that helped me lose my "fear" of the occasional silicone.

I recently bought White Rain's Coconut CO again even though it contains dimethicone. I'd stopped buying it when one day re-reading the label I saw the "evil 'cone" on the list... but in reality I'd never noticed any problems because I constantly alternate COs... So, as long as it's not at the top of the list and I don't use them all the time, there's no problem. I even have a straightening serum that I've used a couple of times, but more often than not I don't even remember, this week I've been straight, and all I used was a rich LI. But to be honest, I only like the convenience of "straight" hair because I can go longer between washes, but not really how it looks on me now that I'm older and my face is round.

When you mentioned salt in the hair I remembered a Garnier spray for "beach hair" I bought quite a while ago and I think I used only once (and can't remember what it did...). Thank God I got it at a dollar store because I asked myself why I did that, lol! It does have some other good ingredients but it's like I was always afraid to put it in my hair...

At one point I also advocated for more natural ingredients in hair products but lack of funds forced me to go "cheap" so I just try to avoid the worst and don't worry about the rest. The same thing happened with food, I can't afford organic foods so I have to do the best with what I have, so I don't sweat it anymore either.
Originally Posted by CGSince2002
I could hug you right now! I am at this point in my life right now...i do and use what works...ive gone back to silicone products....just a few...and instead of buying another tangle teezer type tool...i use a regular paddle brush ...i have to think economically right now bc i have bills to pay....by myself. Ya know? So i had to ease up.

I use Dominican deep conditioners i buy from a Hispanic supermarket. And my hair is THRIVING!!!


Sent from my LG-LG730 using CurlTalk App
curlypearl likes this.
2yrs 7 months post relaxer/2 years and 11 months natural

Cleanse: SM Moisture Retention or Suave Naturals shampoos
Co-Wash: Suave Naturals, L'Oreal EverCreme or EverCurl
RO/Detangler: Tresseme Naturals, GVPCB
Leave-In: SM Curl Enhancing Smoothie, TN, GVPCB
Styler: EcoStyler, GF Pure Clean gel, KCCC

Just discovering my hair likes protein!

Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,073
Thank you! That felt good!

I'm actually Dominican by birth (but an American citizen by choice...). Every time I went there I would come loaded with Dominican COs, some are great, others not so much, the majority contain mineral oil or petrolatum... BUT they detangle and give shine like nobody's business so during my other time here I even got to sell a few. But since my parents passed away I haven't gone back and have no idea when I could go back.

P.S. I can't afford to splurge either so all my products but one are cheap.

Last edited by CGSince2002; 04-17-2014 at 10:44 PM.
Sounds like we're all int he same boat, gotta think before we spend

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