Coloured or white, but all 3c?!

I don't have anything of real value to add to this thread, except that I am Caucasian/Asian and have no African blood in me at all, and I am a 3b/c. So this whole race/ethnicity thing is kind of confusing. (And off-topic, but make sure you know the difference between race, nationality, and heritage).
3b/c...or thereabouts.

Album: http://photobucket.com/albums/a119/CrazyCurlyQ/

Password: curlomania
(albums are on the lefthand side)
The curly ones
3a - big, loose spiral curls
3b - bouncy ringlets
3c - tight corkscrews

The really curly ones
4a - tightly coiled S-curls
4b - tightly coiled hair bending in sharp angles (Z-pattern)
Originally Posted by curltopia
Very interesting indeed!
I can't relate to the 3c description though... I have s-shaped curls mostly, varying from pencil circumference in the back to 0.59 inch in the front (found an inch- centimeter converter... )

Thanks Shyygirl723! I thought coarse or fine meant a large or small package of hair, but it's just one little hair that is coarse or fine.
Discovered that I'm a iii (finally understand what that means!) with coarse hair.
As far as the hairtype...
I found a picture of Cree Summer on Google, and she has my hair! Only hers is much more shiny, long and beautiful
Am I a 3b???

Argh! So confusing!
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Hairtype: A whole lotta tight 3c
Album
I can't relate to the 3c description though... I have s-shaped curls mostly, varying from pencil circumference in the back to 0.59 inch in the front (found an inch- centimeter converter... )

Thanks Shyygirl723! I thought coarse or fine meant a large or small package of hair, but it's just one little hair that is coarse or fine.
Discovered that I'm a iii (finally understand what that means!) with coarse hair.
As far as the hairtype...
I found a picture of Cree Summer on Google, and she has my hair! Only hers is much more shiny, long and beautiful
Am I a 3b???

Argh! So confusing!
Originally Posted by Curly Dutch Girl
I hope you Googled the many pictures of Cree. I've seen her hair in it's more natural state -- that is, not professionally styled and glossed for a photo shoot.

We have the same kinda hair. What does a corkscrew curl look like when you pull on it? I like to call it the relaxed corkscrew. It's the length and weight of your hair that pulls it down. When mine's shorter the curl is tighter. I'm mostly coarse with my thickness in the rear, but I have some medium texture and normal in the crown, which makes my hair hang almost wavy to straight, which is especially nice for bunning or other updos. I looked at your album and our hair looks and behaves pretty much the same under various conditions -- it's beautiful! I also think you have more than one curl pattern (yes 3b) as many of us do. Just relax and love it -- it is the most versatile hair on the planet.
3c representative of a 2c-4a curly clan.
Keeping it simple, natural & sulfate free. Fan of pure oils, butters & glycerin to moisturize.
IMO, curly hair differs in the following:

-pattern - coils, springs. zig zags, s-curves
-pattern size - watch spring to chalk size
-density - sparse, dense
-strand diameter - fine, medium, wide
-feel/texture - cottony, wooly, spongy

I feel that Andre’s system does not address all of these issues. From what I heard, his system was meant to address his wife’s 3b hair. I am not sure but that is what I heard.

I have seen the LOIS system floating on the net. It is supposed to identify the different hair structures.

Another hair typing system, L.O.I.S. was developed by Our Hair as a simpler way to identify different hair structures.

Pattern
L = Bend
O = Curl
I = Straight
S = Wave

Strands
Thick
Medium
Thin

Texture
Thready - low sheen, high shine, low frizz
Wiry - sparkly sheen, low shine, low frizz
Cottony - low sheen, high shine, high frizz
Spongy - high sheen, low shine, high frizz
Silky - low sheen, high shine, low frizz

Shine - hair that reflects light along its surface.
Sheen - hair that sparkles as if filled with light.


How to determine which daughter (or son) of LOIS you are (from ourhair.net):

Remove a single strand of the most common type of hair on your head. Aim for 70%, so if you have different textures, use the most common texture on your head.

The hair should be freshly washed without products applied to it and rinsed in cold water. Or, gently rinse a single hair with a little dish detergent and rinse in cold water.

Lay the hair on an absorbent paper towel to dry.

When the hair is completely dry, look at the pattern without touching it.

-If the hair has all bends, right angles and folds with little to no curve then you are daughter L.
-If the strand is rolled up into the shape of one or several zeros like a spiral, then you are daughter O.
-If the hair lies mostly flat with no distinctive curve or bend you are daughter I.
-If the strand looks like a wavy line with hills and valleys then you are daughter S.

It will be common to have a combination of the LOIS letters, (with more dominant) which can help you determine which daughter of LOIS you are. If you cannot see one letter over the others, then combine the letters. Example: LO or IL or OS.

Other characteristics of LOIS:
Strand Size: One half of a piece of inexpensive sewing thread (such as the kind that is contained in those palm sized personal sewing kits) split in two is about the thickness of a medium strand size of human hair. If you hair is larger than this, then your strand size is thick. If you hair is smaller than the split thread, then your hair strand is thin, or fine.

If you want to compare your hair strand to a split piece of thread, it can be done by moving the thread back and forth between your thumb and forefinger holding the free end taunt.

Texture:
Thready texture of hair usually has a low sheen, with high shine if the hair is held taunt (as in a braid), with low frizz. Wets easily but water dries out quickly.

Wiry hair textures have sparkle sheen, with low shine and low frizz. Water beads up or bounces off the hair strands. Hair never seems to get fully wet.

Cottony hair texture will have a low sheen, a high shine if the hair is held taunt and has high frizz. Absorbs water quickly but does not get thoroughly wet very fast.

Spongy hair has a high sheen with low shine with a compacted looking frizz. Absorbs water before it gets thoroughly wet.

Silky hair has low sheen, a very high shine, with a lot or low frizz. Easily wets in water.


If I were to talk about 3c hair of African descent I would feel that the *biggest* difference lies in texture.


I am not sure what my hair type is (will post pictures soon so you guys can see). I am not the corkscrew of the textbook 3c but is not tight and has a lot more movement than a 4a (looks like almost like CDG’s hair but my roots are flatter). I have a s wave pattern, thin strands, cottony hair that does not get wet fast but as long as I do DT and make sure I have a good leave-in, I do not get frizzy hair.

So I guess that would make me a SThinCottony with pencil size dense curls.

Edited to separate web info (in quotes) from my opinions
We're all born mad. Some remain so.

Other Hair Typing Systems

Although we will no longer use Andre Walker's hair type system as explained in his book "Andre Talks Hair," many of you are familiar with it and may wish to continue using it. Generally speaking, Andre's system could stand a few additional letters in the alphabet, but we feel that his intent was to give a general indication of hair types and not a definitive answer to all hair. Many of you will fall in between Andre's descriptions which we hope you will keep in mind as you develop a hair care regimen that works best for you.
I agree with this quote. I also think there is more to type 3 and 4 hair than Andre writes but I assume for simplicity he did not include everything. It is more about understanding your hair and finding what works for you. Because my hair is fine I cannot use many of the products that other 3cs and higher use on their hair. And because of the type of curl and texture I have I cannot use the techniques that many of the looser curlies have. I try to stay as simple as possible and do what works for my hair and so far it has been working and I really do not have a need to post or read posts anymore.
We're all born mad. Some remain so.

I don't have anything of real value to add to this thread, except that I am Caucasian/Asian and have no African blood in me at all, and I am a 3b/c. So this whole race/ethnicity thing is kind of confusing. (And off-topic, but make sure you know the difference between race, nationality, and heritage).
Originally Posted by SapphireWingstar
Welcome Sapphire I wouldn't read too much in to it.. As Amneris posted, based on the descriptions of a great many self-identified 3B/C and 3C curlies, they are mixed with some african ancestry. This includes me. You are mixed, without any african ancestry but still have hair that you describe as 3 B/C - that is totally cool, especially if you learn to care for it, which you seem more than motivated to do! Rainy day is not mixed but white and has partially 4A hair that she calls 3C. And Banjo curl is a jewish 3B/C, with no apparent mixed heritage, and some lovely curls. So obviously there are no clear and fast rules.

The hair classifications are just short hand. I go most by what others are saying in their posts, how techiques and products perform for them and me, and pictures. That is how I decide whose input and advice to follow, and whether I feel comfortable giving someone else input and advice. The point here is to be helpful and supportive, while other are helping and supporting you in all matters curly .... In addition, it's a nice little cyber community with some very interesting women, girls and men/boys too!
"Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people."

"I think that somehow, we learn who we really are and then we live with that decision."
- Eleanor Roosevelt (both quotes)

(taking a break from posting starting late august 2009)
i feel you guys on the confusion with some things in the hair typing system but i guess i feel the 3c is clearly stated in terms of curl diameter but not texture because texture is a separate entity. so i totally agree with you girls who separate texture from type.

Type 3C, is hair with tight curls in corkscrews. The curls can be either kinky, or very tightly curled, with lots and lots of strands densely packed together. Some people refer to this as "big hair." Getting this type of hair to blowdry straight is more challenging than for 3A or 3B, but it usually can be done. This includes those with very tight curls but finer hair, as well as coarser hair. 3C has really really tight curls, like pencil or straw circumference. 3B is like sidewalk chalk or salt shaker circumference, and 4A is like coffee stirrer circumference.

i feel like i can truly say i'm a 3c because my hair fits what the description says exactly to the T. i have a true corkscrew that is pencil and straw width and it's a corkscrew from root to end. also, my hair is big, i wonder it if it will fall eventually.

the main problem i see with the hair typing system is that it leaves out a whole bunch of hair types from S curls, hair with small diameter waves and those in between with a mixture of everything you can think of. i guess i lucked out because my hair was able to be easily typed.

i honestly think that the texture issue is what drives us all to having the same hair type but yet different products work for us.

by the way, i haven't read everything yet cuz this is a long topic so hopefully i haven't repeated too much stuff
Truly Aesthetic...mind, body and spirit
@amarilla505: Wow! Your hair looks so cool! You seem to be a 'true 3c' when it comes to corkscrews!
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Hairtype: A whole lotta tight 3c
Album
hey curly dutch girl! thanks so much i love your hair, it's so thick and lovely and you are very pretty as well! i must say your first bed hair photo is hot! i love they way messy hair looks, that's one thing i kind of miss when i was relaxed. i used to have my hair tossed every which way, i did not care and just let the wind take care of it but for some odd reason people loved it.
Truly Aesthetic...mind, body and spirit
My impression of 3C is the same as the description laid out by amarilla. I think the way Gloria Reuben's hair appears in this picture is a prime example of what 3C hair is to me:



The curls are very small and densely packed, yet the hair "hangs" and is obviously growing down, as opposed to 4A hair which usually does not hang and will grow out and away.

It's interesting that 3B/3C (or 2C/3A, 3A/3B, 4B/4A - any combo for that matter) does not mean the same for everyone. Some use it to describe hair that is 3B in some spots and 3C in others. For me, it means that my hair is at the mid-point between 3B and 3C. Tighter than 3B, looser than 3C. 3B and a half, if you will. When I first came on this site and saw the Juliana Marguiles example for 3B and the Gloria Reuben example for 3C, I pictured the 2 of them joining forces to make my hair.


3b/c fine corkscrews and spirals. Naked hair above.


Wash: Elucence Moisture Balancing Shampoo
Condish: Shescentit Avocado/Honey Rinse
Moisture DT: Silk Dreams Vanilla Silk, Crece Pelo
Protein DT: Shescentit Okra Hair Repair Reconstructor
Leave-Ins: Shescentit Coco Creme, Darcy's Botanicals Sweet Cocoa Bean, Aubrey Organics Primrose Spray
Stylers: Aubrey Organics B-5, Shea Moisture Curly Souffle


Subject to change!
Werenumber 2-

My hair is a blend too.... I would love to see more recent hair pictures to see if we could be curl twins

And I've never liked that picture of Gloria Reuben because it doesn't show her curls too well... I don't see much curl definition in that picture which is NOT how I think of 3C. Well-formed curls make me think of 3C--Shyygirl is a great example with her perfect looking corkscrews. Gloria's hair in that picture looks kind of picked out to me.
"Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people."

"I think that somehow, we learn who we really are and then we live with that decision."
- Eleanor Roosevelt (both quotes)

(taking a break from posting starting late august 2009)
And I've never liked that picture of Gloria Reuben because it doesn't show her curls too well... I don't see much curl definition in that picture which is NOT how I think of 3C. Well-formed curls make me think of 3C--Shyygirl is a great example with her perfect looking corkscrews. Gloria's hair in that picture looks kind of picked out to me.
Originally Posted by curltopia
ITA

This is what I think of when I think of 3c:





Daughter's hair


Daughters not mom











Overall my hair is sort of like Valéria Valenssa in the last picture or Holy Robinson in the second picture. My hair when wet is a 2a/2b/3a but as it dries most of my hair gets curlier and bigger (in the back it remains a 2c). Except at the roots that stays pretty flat. This is good because I can easily slick my hair back without products but bad if I want “big hair.” I have to flip my hair over or massage my roots if I want them to have volume.

I have given up on the Andre system because it really does not mean anything to me. I feel that the texture and fineness of the hair tells much more about how it will react to products than the curl diameter. Well, it is better than the CG hair typing system. My hair does not fit into any of her categories.

I like the LOIS and the Ouidad hair typing systems. I wonder why Andre's and Fia's (that is one step up from Andre's system IMO) are the popular ones?



Also, another problem I have with Andre’s system (besides not accounting for texture and density) it is hierarchical and sort of perpetuates the “good hair” “bad hair” concept.

ETA a picture of Janaína Lince
We're all born mad. Some remain so.

Cehua-

Those are great pictures , and yes they look like 3C to me too
"Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people."

"I think that somehow, we learn who we really are and then we live with that decision."
- Eleanor Roosevelt (both quotes)

(taking a break from posting starting late august 2009)
I always hated the typing system. I'm not mixed. I don't have lots of curls but more waves. They are not tight but loose. My hair blows straight very easily. Andre's system completely misses me altogether. On nappturality, I was labeled a 3a - I say that's not right either (at least when I look at the pictures of 3a posted here). That said, I lurk in the 3b/c boards to get hints because my hair loves traditional black hair care products and most posters here are likely to use some of these products.

mini-album w/ various styles for the past 10 years of natural hair:
http://s29.photobucket.com/albums/c252/wavezncurlz/hair/
password: curlzorwavez
I always hated the typing system. I'm not mixed. I don't have lots of curls but more waves. They are not tight but loose. My hair blows straight very easily. Andre's system completely misses me altogether. On nappturality, I was labeled a 3a - I say that's not right either (at least when I look at the pictures of 3a posted here). That said, I lurk in the 3b/c boards to get hints because my hair loves traditional black hair care products and most posters here are likely to use some of these products.
Originally Posted by wavezncurlz

Wavez I saw your pics. I love your curls, what products do you use in your hair. My hair is shorter but as its growing out is more wavy than curls.
http://www.youtube.com/Kittykat1374
____________________________

natural since 6/05
Re: Cehua's post - I've always thought of Sydney Poitier as having 3B hair. Maybe it's because her hair is so dang long (WOW, that's a lot of hair) that the curls have stretched out...but most times she appears 3B to me:



Gina Torres as well:



3b/c fine corkscrews and spirals. Naked hair above.


Wash: Elucence Moisture Balancing Shampoo
Condish: Shescentit Avocado/Honey Rinse
Moisture DT: Silk Dreams Vanilla Silk, Crece Pelo
Protein DT: Shescentit Okra Hair Repair Reconstructor
Leave-Ins: Shescentit Coco Creme, Darcy's Botanicals Sweet Cocoa Bean, Aubrey Organics Primrose Spray
Stylers: Aubrey Organics B-5, Shea Moisture Curly Souffle


Subject to change!




But I don't know how to get the look. I suspect it's all in the cut but finding someone in Seattle who knows my hair is near impossible... Any ideas?

(BTW, I love our own category.)
3c
Poo: KBB shampoo bar or Shikai moisturizing shampoo
CoWash: VO5 kiwi
Cond: Robert Craig, Tresemme Natural, or Fekkai Shea Butter
Leave in/Styling: Grapeseed oil, KBB milk, KCCC, and Aveda Confixor
Well let me chim in here

My hair is soooo mixed up that when it's short, my left side it straight and waves when it's long (wavezncurlz I'm sure you remember the straight side after my BC LOL).

For me, it's about texture. I can't use a product like Carol's Daughters because they are too heavy and make my hair got almost straight (not in a pretty), but I have so much hair you would think they would work. However, I can use Curly Pudding, Bubble Up to Curl Keeper and the gel...heavy to light products. Basically, I look at the 3c and 3b posts and sometimes will look at the wavy posts when I want to find a product to boot my curls.

In my eyes, it doesn't matter your ethnic make up, curls are just mixed up on everyone's head that has them, that's what makes them fun
VERY THICK 3c/3b -Dr. Bronners Peppermint Soap to Shampoo or Elucence Cond. daily/dt, Cantu Shea Butter Leave In to style.

http://potterville.wordpress.com/
Thank You so much for addressing this issue!
By the posting NC members and celeb photos, I have been able to 'find' my hair type.

I'm 3C !
PASSWORD: DAN-DAN
Great pics, Cehua. In fact when I first came to NC, I used Holly's pic since we look alike straight down to our hair. Since, I'm can't seem to get my own up (technical difficulties), I'll use it again in the meantime.
3c representative of a 2c-4a curly clan.
Keeping it simple, natural & sulfate free. Fan of pure oils, butters & glycerin to moisturize.

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