Hair Like This


Hrm.. well thanks for your perspective. That helps me out actually.

But I don't want anyone going around thinking just because your hair is "fine" in texture that this makes it more manageable necessarily. And what is "manageable" supposed to mean? Ones hair is as manageable as ones skills allow, right? I don't think I could manage my hair now if it went from curly to straight because I completely ruined my hair when it was chemically straight (which is why I want nothing to do with having straight hair..lol).
Originally Posted by BekkaPoo
Thank you! I was just thinking this! My hair is like wire, but it's easy for me to manage because I know what I'm doing with it - it took me a whole year to master it. I go to a stylist, and they unleash the beast and then they want to act like they're afraid.
Currently:Alaffia Shea & Coconut Enriching Shampoo, Alaffia Virgin Coconut & Shea Enriching Hair Lotion, Qhemet Amla Olive Heavy Cream, Qhemet Honeybush Tea Gel.

Last Texturizer: March 12, 2008
BC: July 21, 2008
Hair: Coarse, low porosity, iii.

Certified Denirophile

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting a different outcome". ~ Albert Einstein

Last edited by OnyxCabelo; 08-18-2009 at 06:36 PM. Reason: typo
[quote=Marah Mizrahi;1071066]


Um.. what I can comment on is..that My hair is not O shaped.. It's corkscrew like if you were to pull the corkscrew out and stretch it. I suppose the best description would be that it looks like a pulled out slinky in it's natural state without me doing anything to it. It has a defined curl pattern naturally with no manipulation and doesn't have an O shape.

That doesn't have anything to do with texture..so I am not sure why you refer to it.

To me an O shape means the hair collapses on itself to form an O that is close to the scalp. My hair doesn't do that.. it actually springs out from my scalp like a slinky.
Thanks for your perspective on O shaped hair.
I mentioned my own to illustrate that you don't have to be a "totally natural 3c" to have curl definition when wet. That's what I don't agree with in your original post. And also, since I understood curl "type" is dealing with the size of the curl alone, I don't agree that "curling when wet" is a function of a particular hair type/size. In fact, I think curls and coils of all sizes (including in the 4s) can get more defined when wet. It's not something that's specific to a particular curl size. Now what it needs to remain healthy, moisturized as it dries, etc is a different story and is probably more a function of texture and porosity than type. And as you said before, two people with the same curl type can have different textures, porosity, product needs, etc, but the curl size is the same.

I see your point of your original post, that you can't get your hair to do something that it just won't. But that whole "totally natural 3c" comment was just hogwash and I hear that a lot. But I think a lot of it comes from an ignorance of kinky/4 type hair more than anything else. And since most folks with my type of hair relax, type 4 hair and what it can do might remain a mystery for a while.

Oh, and by the way: my O hair springs from my hair too...hence....my name That's the beauty of curly and coily hair, isn't it? What you think is a characteristic of yours can be shared by a completely different type curlyhead.
4a, fine coils. low/med porosity. "It's springy. Like a slinky."--My Lil' Cousin

I use products on 90% dry hair.
Wash: Dr. Bronner's Peppermint Castille Soap.
Conditioner: Tigi Bedhead Moisture Maniac/Suave Humectants
Moisturizers: Long Aid
Styler: Ecostyler Clear/ Vitamin E Oil
TO: SPRINGYHEAD:

Thanks for your perspective on O shaped hair.
I mentioned my own to illustrate that you don't have to be a "totally natural 3c" to have curl definition when wet. That's what I don't agree with in your original post. And also, since I understood curl "type" is dealing with the size of the curl alone, I don't agree that "curling when wet" is a function of a particular hair type/size. In fact, I think curls and coils of all sizes (including in the 4s) can get more defined when wet. It's not something that's specific to a particular curl size. Now what it needs to remain healthy, moisturized as it dries, etc is a different story and is probably more a function of texture and porosity than type. And as you said before, two people with the same curl type can have different textures, porosity, product needs, etc, but the curl size is the same.
Um.. I am not sure WHY you are even referring to this.. NO WHERE did I say no one else can get curl definition besides 3c's when wet.. NO WHERE. LOL!

I am not sure why you continue to read more into my post than what's actually there. The original poster MENTIONED she thought she has 3c hair.. and that is why I commented on 3c hair type because type 3 hair has certain charactistics that you really can't get around, it's fact...there was nothing from me that stated that no one else can get curl definition besides a 3c when wet. I would be a damn fool to say such a thing when I know darn well people that do not have my hair type (which happens to be 3c) have curl definition and just have it naturally.

So with all due respect.. I am not sure where you pulled that from... I have nothing against Type 4 hair and it seems to me that is really your issue.. you think I have some conflict with type 4 hair and it was your attempt to call me on it. I hope that is not the case, but that is the impression I am getting...

For the record, I don't. And if you read any of my past posts on this forum about hair types you will see that the whole hair against hair thing bugs the mess out of me. I've made detailed posts about my dislike for that sort of thing. I know good and well type 4's can get curl definition particularly type 4a's considering my own mother has that type of hair and her hair curls like no one's business when it's natural. When I was growing up her curl definition UNWET was better than mine is now! Now type 4b and 4c's don't have a defined curls to me naturally without doing something to it.. that hair type seems more like a Z to me which is not actually a curl per se in my view. If you disagree with that..so be it. But that is how I understand 4b and 4c hair types.

I see your point of your original post, that you can't get your hair to do something that it just won't. But that whole "totally natural 3c" comment was just hogwash and I hear that a lot. But I think a lot of it comes from an ignorance of kinky/4 type hair more than anything else. And since most folks with my type of hair relax, type 4 hair and what it can do might remain a mystery for a while.
I am glad you got my point... but once again.. my totally natural 3c comment was completely accurate because what I said and ALL I SAID was type 3's don't need to do any manipulation to get a curl because it does that naturally. I didn't say anything about it was the only hair type that does it.. YOU read that into what I said all on your own. So I don't have any complex about type 4 hair... Perhaps because you have experienced some negative issues with type 3c hair people.. you kind of got a little trigger happy when you read my post ? I don't know.. but where you are coming from is beyond me since I never mentioned what you are stating at all.

Oh, and by the way: my O hair springs from my hair too...hence....my name That's the beauty of curly and coily hair, isn't it? What you think is a characteristic of yours can be shared by a completely different type curlyhead.
Well like I said O's usually lay flat when I see it.. so when you say O's I would have to see what you mean to verify.. in any event.. I don't have O shaped hair so I suppose it doesn't really come into play when thinking about my own hair. And I am sure yours is lovely.

But I do honestly think you went on a tangent needlessly about something I wasn't even discussing, didn't imply, and never brought up anyway. I never brought up texture.. YOU DID. I never brought up that 3c's are the only types that can get a curl definition when wet.. YOU DID. And you never even asked me for clarification.. you simply made assumptions with no basis and proceeded to respond on that faulty premise. Not sure why though besides your past experiences with some type 3c hair people haven't been respectful and well I can certainly understand that sentiment.

I have seen that myself where certain women of color with one type of hair will act like there hair is better because it's looser or the texture is finer than anothers and on the flip side I've seen women with a tighter curl or little to no defined curl get a little overly sensitive about hair and feel that someone else with another type hair thinks they are better.

All I can do is SPEAK FOR ME and I don't go for that bull crap. I have enough to worry about with maintaining my own hair and the last thing I need to do is stick my nose in the air about my hair which believe me..ain't all that. But it's mine and I like it, but it's just hair.. it's not the Hope Diamond.

To me the whole hair this type 3 versus type 4 drama especially among women of color is just that.. DRAMA and I don't buy into it. I like all types of hair including straight, wavy, curl, relaxed, flat ironed, and otherwise. I simply choose to wear mine naturally curly because it's easy and my hair seems to just look and respond better in it's natural state.

I never disparage people about the natural state of their hair..that's something a person cannot help. To me disrespecting someone because of the natural state of their hair is JUST as bad as making fun of someone that is born with a disability or were born of a certain race. I find that absolutely deplorable. Now I might say I can't stand a hair cut or hair style.. but you will NEVER see me down someone because they wear the hair they are born with and you will never see me go through the "I got good hair BS"... that behavior is beneath me. And being mixed.. I sort of understand that deal a little better than you may think I do.. I know about natural type 4 hair. I grew up with a mother with that type of hair and SEVERAL female cousins with that type of hair on my mom's side. And all of them WORKED the hair and looked good doing it.

So for future reference.. It might be better to ASK rather than assume.. because what you got off on as "hogwash" was really something you brought up and had a problem with.. not me.

Hope you understand now and you don't feel offended because that is not my intent. My intent is to completely clarify my stance in hopes that you comprehend what I stated and not feel you need to read into something. I usually say EXACTLY what I mean and I don't really do the implication game.
NO WHERE did I say no one else can get curl definition besides 3c's when wet.. NO WHERE. LOL!

I am not sure why you continue to read more into my post than what's actually there. The original poster MENTIONED she thought she has 3c hair.. and that is why I commented on 3c hair type because type 3 hair has certain charactistics that you really can't get around, it's fact...there was nothing from me that stated that no one else can get curl definition besides a 3c when wet. I would be a damn fool to say such a thing when I know darn well people that do not have my hair type (which happens to be 3c) have curl definition and just have it naturally.

So with all due respect.. I am not sure where you pulled that from... I have nothing against Type 4 hair and it seems to me that is really your issue.. you think I have some conflict with type 4 hair and it was your attempt to call me on it. I hope that is not the case, but that is the impression I am getting...

For the record, I don't. And if you read any of my past posts on this forum about hair types you will see that the whole hair against hair thing bugs the mess out of me. I've made detailed posts about my dislike for that sort of thing. I know good and well type 4's can get curl definition particularly type 4a's considering my own mother has that type of hair and her hair curls like no one's business when it's natural. When I was growing up her curl definition UNWET was better than mine is now! Now type 4b and 4c's don't have a defined curls to me naturally without doing something to it.. that hair type seems more like a Z to me which is not actually a curl per se in my view. If you disagree with that..so be it. But that is how I understand 4b and 4c hair types.

my totally natural 3c comment was completely accurate because what I said and ALL I SAID was type 3's don't need to do any manipulation to get a curl because it does that naturally. So I don't have any complex about type 4 hair... Perhaps because you have experienced some negative issues with type 3c hair people.. you kind of got a little trigger happy when you read my post ? I don't know.. but where you are coming from is beyond me since I never mentioned what you are stating at all.

Well like I said O's usually lay flat when I see it.. so when you say O's I would have to see what you mean to verify.. in any event.. I don't have O shaped hair so I suppose it doesn't really come into play when thinking about my own hair. And I am sure yours is lovely.

But I do honestly think you went on a tangent needlessly about something I wasn't even discussing, didn't imply, and never brought up anyway. Inever brought up texture.. YOU DID. I never brought up that 3c's are the only types that can get a curl definition when wet.. YOU DID. And you never even asked me for clarification.. you simply made assumptions with no basis and proceeded to respond on that faulty premise. Not sure why though besides your past experiences with some type 3c hair people haven't been respectful and well I can certainly understand that sentiment.

To me the whole hair this type 3 versus type 4 drama especially among women of color is just that.. DRAMA and I don't buy into it. I like all types of hair including straight, wavy, curl, relaxed, flat ironed, and otherwise. I simply choose to wear mine naturally curly because it's easy and my hair seems to just look and respond better in it's natural state.

I never disparage people about the natural state of their hair..that's something a person cannot help. To me disrespecting someone because of the natural state of their hair is JUST as bad as making fun of someone that is born with a disability or were born of a certain race. I find that absolutely deplorable. Now I might say I can't stand a hair cut or hair style.. but you will NEVER see me down someone because they wear the hair they are born with and you will never see me go through the "I got good hair BS"... that behavior is beneath me. And being mixed.. I sort of understand that deal a little better than you may think I do.. I know about natural type 4 hair. I grew up with a mother with that type of hair and SEVERAL female cousins with that type of hair on my mom's side. And all of them WORKED the hair and looked good doing it.

So for future reference.. It might be better to ASK rather than assume.. because what you got off on as "hogwash" was really something you brought up and had a problem with.. not me.

Hope you understand now and you don't feel offended because that is not my intent. My intent is to completely clarify my stance in hopes that you comprehend what I stated and not feel you need to read into something. I usually say EXACTLY what I mean and I don't really do the implication game.
Originally Posted by Marah Mizrahi
You seem a little hostile and I am unclear as to why. Springyhead made a very good point. No you did not say in your original post that ONLY 3c's get curl definition when wet. But, it was definitely implied. I even laughed when I read it, however I chose not to comment. By saying specifically what Type 3 hair can do is indeed implying Type 4 can not do those same things. To have avoided that implication a specific hair type would not have been mentioned at all.

Just because a person has a certain "hair type" does not mean everyone with that "hair type" hair reacts the same way. This in part would be due to the texture, porostiy, and curl size. Just because you may have grown up with someone in your household that classified themselves as Type 4, it does not mean that their type 4 hair is the same as Springyhead's (for example only). Therefore, to make generalizations about Type 4 hair would pointless.

I think it is hilarious that you mentioned you feel the whole Type 3 and Type 4 is just drama because in the few post I have seen of yours you really do make reference to Type 3 a great deal. I have never since finding this board heard it mentioned by anyone as much as you do in your post. I truly understand you wanting everyone to know you have Type 3c hair. But, is it really necesary when so many other factors come into play when dealing with hair?

Also, I am not sure why you mentioned twice that Springyhead had past issues with 3c people being disrespectful. It was not implied in her post. In my opinion she was trying to inform you as to what her hair can do since it seemed you had a preconceived notion.

You may not have meant to come across the way you did in your original post. But, it was done and I commend Springyhead for commenting as I didn't feel comfortable at the time with mentioning! Perhaps this can be an eye opening experience. I know for me if one person says something to me about something I did I say they are overreacting. However, if multiple people tell me the same thing I have to sit back and think....perhaps I did come across the wrong way or hurt someone's feelings. So I apologize, move on and try not to make that mistake again.
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TO: SPRINGYHEAD:



type 3 hair has certain charactistics that you really can't get around, it's fact...
Originally Posted by Marah Mizrahi
Most of your post is irrational and hostile so I won't respond in full. However, the bottom line, and the original point of my post, was that you think that 3c hair has "characteristics" other than the size of the curl and it's shape and I disagree. So we simply disagree.
Also, I am not sure why you mentioned twice that Springyhead had past issues with 3c people being disrespectful. It was not implied in her post.
Originally Posted by NaturallyCurlyEnnovy
That was kind of comical....getting a vision of 3 3c haired ladies surrounding me and bopping me on my head with a denman brush.
4a, fine coils. low/med porosity. "It's springy. Like a slinky."--My Lil' Cousin

I use products on 90% dry hair.
Wash: Dr. Bronner's Peppermint Castille Soap.
Conditioner: Tigi Bedhead Moisture Maniac/Suave Humectants
Moisturizers: Long Aid
Styler: Ecostyler Clear/ Vitamin E Oil
You seem a little hostile and I am unclear as to why. Springyhead made a very good point. No you did not say in your original post that ONLY 3c's get curl definition when wet. But, it was definitely implied. I even laughed when I read it, however I chose not to comment. By saying specifically what Type 3 hair can do is indeed implying Type 4 can not do those same things. To have avoided that implication a specific hair type would not have been mentioned at all.


Nope, not hostile at all. No reason to be.. but like I said.. I never said type 3's are the only ones to get curl definition when wet. To me that would be silly knowing good and well my mom was type 4a and her hair is curlier than mine when unwet. She didnt have to wet hers at all for any defined curl..it just curled naturally. So whether or not you think it was implied is really irrelevant. I didn't say it nor did I imply it. Now if you CHOOSE to think otherwise..that's up to you. But I told Springy what I STATED and now I am telling you. It's up to you what you do with it.

And for the record, the original poster MENTIONED she had type 3c hair. Since I have type 3c hair my intention was to help her out. If you would have done it differently..that's you.. I am not you.


Just because a person has a certain "hair type" does not mean everyone with that "hair type" hair reacts the same way. This in part would be due to the texture, porostiy, and curl size. Just because you may have grown up with someone in your household that classified themselves as Type 4, it does not mean that their type 4 hair is the same as Springyhead's (for example only). Therefore, to make generalizations about Type 4 hair would pointless.


I agree hence why I posted all the posts I did to make sure that was understood. I don't know if you glazed over them in your haste to comment and back up your buddy... but I said all of that and more... and I didn't say anyone in my family had hair like Springyheads. What I said was type 4's are in my family and I do know about those hair types more than she may think. She is the one who went into the whole spiel about ignorance about type 4 hair.. and yada yada.

What's up with you two reading into more than what's there ? LOL! Now I have to laugh. I honestly think some people have an issue with hair typing in general... and when someone mentions it they suddenly run to all these "implications" that are IMAGINED. And to be honest, I've seen some of your posts and I get that impression from you. But I never mentioned it to you because I feel you have a right to feel how you feel. To a lot of people the hair typing system causes animosity and so they stay away from it. For me it doesn't.. so I use it.



I think it is hilarious that you mentioned you feel the whole Type 3 and Type 4 is just drama because in the few post I have seen of yours you really do make reference to Type 3 a great deal. I have never since finding this board heard it mentioned by anyone as much as you do in your post. I truly understand you wanting everyone to know you have Type 3c hair. But, is it really necesary when so many other factors come into play when dealing with hair?


Well, like Springyhead, I think you have a tendency to read into things because you don't like the hair drama that sometimes comes with hair typing. I personally look at the hair typing as just a system of identifying characteristics about hair. To me it's very useful when trying to access what issue somene may have with their hair, what they are trying to describe when it comes to their hair, and a general way to just classify. It's just like any other system such as what ethnic or racial category one falls in. Everyone doesn't like it.. but it is useful.

To me, I try to look for the usefulness in accurate labeling.. if you choose to see it otherwise I certainly don't disparage you that.. but I don't neccessarily mind accurate labels. I find the hair typing system convenient. I think people like yourself don't really care for it in general and when someone uses it then it rubs you the wrong way. I feel you got that impression from my posts because you are ALREADY "sensitive" about hair typing.


Also, I am not sure why you mentioned twice that Springyhead had past issues with 3c people being disrespectful. It was not implied in her post. In my opinion she was trying to inform you as to what her hair can do since it seemed you had a preconceived notion.

You may not have meant to come across the way you did in your original post. But, it was done and I commend Springyhead for commenting as I didn't feel comfortable at the time with mentioning! Perhaps this can be an eye opening experience. I know for me if one person says something to me about something I did I say they are overreacting. However, if multiple people tell me the same thing I have to sit back and think....perhaps I did come across the wrong way or hurt someone's feelings. So I apologize, move on and try not to make that mistake again.
Well I am not personally apologizing for anything because I didn't do anything wrong. YOU and Springyhead developed your OWN conclusions about what you THINK was implied. I have tried to clarify my position based on what I wrote, not on what you and she concocted on your own.

And considering the fact that neither of you can point to a FACT as far as these alledged implications then I suppose we will have to simply agree to disagree. As I said, I didn't mention texture first nor did I mention that only type 3c's curl when wet. Me saying that would be stupid since the definition of type 4a is tightly coiled/curly hair. If you and she choose to believe otherwise and go in with the though of "we know what she meant better than what she actually SAID" so be it. None of us know eachother or owe eachother anything.

So if you want to find me hostile, cryptic, and whatever else.. not much I can do about that.. people will believe and think what they want. But as far as on my end, I don't have any hard feelings toward either of you. If you want to hold something against me for what you THINK you know about me and CHOOSE to believe about me.. oh well.
TO: SPRINGYHEAD:



type 3 hair has certain charactistics that you really can't get around, it's fact...
Originally Posted by Marah Mizrahi
Most of your post is irrational and hostile so I won't respond in full. However, the bottom line, and the original point of my post, was that you think that 3c hair has "characteristics" other than the size of the curl and it's shape and I disagree. So we simply disagree.
Also, I am not sure why you mentioned twice that Springyhead had past issues with 3c people being disrespectful. It was not implied in her post.
Originally Posted by NaturallyCurlyEnnovy
That was kind of comical....getting a vision of 3 3c haired ladies surrounding me and bopping me on my head with a denman brush.
Originally Posted by springyhead
I honestly felt you were the one being irrational considering you are the one who came up with all these things I never even stated. I didn't think you were hostile at all though. Your posts didn't come off as hostile at all.. at least not to me. Assuming yes, but not hostile.

Eh, but I really think what you say in this post is you coping out because nothing I said in my response to the original poster had anything thing to do with this nonsense about texture and only 3c's can be curly when wet subjects you morphed out of thin air.. but whatever.. you have the right to believe whatever you want... I explained my position a few times now.. you still choose to believe what you THINK you know and not what I actually stated.. so I mean it is what it is...

But I don't have any hard feelings toward you.. certainly not over hair and what I think is really a misunderstanding based on assumptions and people being a little overly sensitive about hair typing in general... but as I said.. eh.. it is what it is...

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