Do People of Color Really Have Different Hair ?

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I thought I had curly hair until I went into a salon the other day desperate for a hair product that wouldn't leave residue in my hair. The stylist there corrected me and said "Your hair is actually coily, not curly."
I thought I had curly hair until I went into a salon the other day desperate for a hair product that wouldn't leave residue in my hair. The stylist there corrected me and said "Your hair is actually coily, not curly."
Originally Posted by adthomas

But a coil is still a curl...

I personally think of curly hair as hair that forms spirals/o shapes. Kinky hair to me would be hair that forms S/Z zig-zag shapes. A 4b with spirals would be curly to me, while a 3b with zig zags would be kinky to me. I don't understand why people think that smaller curls = kinky.

eta: I apparently have a crazy definition of kinky, and I don't know where I got it from! Webster tells me it's a small curl, but I've always thought of the definition applying to machinery... which still doesn't make sense... huh. Ignore me...

eta2: I've got it! I've always thought of a "kink" in something to be a BEND, like a kink in a wire. Kinks to me are 2D and don't form spirals, while curls to me are 3D and DO form spirals.
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Last edited by breathe; 07-23-2010 at 05:51 PM.
I totally agree with Marah! But I do have on question. Why is hair that is medium in strand texture seen as coars in the black community? When I think coarse I think of my sisters boyfriend who is asian, or my mom who has m/c hair as she gets older. When I was little my moms hair was just average "white"(she white) medium. And you know what my hair is a solid medium like my moms was when i was small. But when ever I got my hair relaxed at home or otherwise they treated it like they were relaxing coarse asian hair or something.

I don't really understand it. Can some one explain it? It seems like any hair that isn't fine in texture is considered coarse.
Originally Posted by Melanie_Linn
I don't understand your question-how did they treat it like it's coarse? I have all three textures on my head, but I call mine coarse b/c it's always been very tough overall like rope and doesn't break easily...even when relaxed my friends and I used to joke that I could pull a truck with my hair.
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I totally agree with Marah! But I do have on question. Why is hair that is medium in strand texture seen as coars in the black community? When I think coarse I think of my sisters boyfriend who is asian, or my mom who has m/c hair as she gets older. When I was little my moms hair was just average "white"(she white) medium. And you know what my hair is a solid medium like my moms was when i was small. But when ever I got my hair relaxed at home or otherwise they treated it like they were relaxing coarse asian hair or something.

I don't really understand it. Can some one explain it? It seems like any hair that isn't fine in texture is considered coarse.
Originally Posted by Melanie_Linn

THIS is a question that I actually DO know the answer to.. LOL!

This is a simple case based on the misconception of what texture actually is and what density actually is..

Coarse (another word for thick) hair refers to texture. It's a measurement of the diameter of a hair strand. Density refers to how many hairs you have per square inch. A lot of black people have what looks like very dense hair..it's packed very close together. So it can look extremely thick.

The truth is most black people in fact do not have coarse hair (some do but most do not). Asians usually have the thickest hair strands meaning their hair is more coarse than most. That's not a race versus race issue. It's a fact that's been proven. And any trichologist will tell you that.

When black people (or others) look at another black person's natural hair (particularly if it's tightly curled/kinky) when they say that person has thick hair..they are actually refering to the density in most cases because of how it looks to them.

But because so many people mix up what texture and density actually are or don't even know the proper definitions an easy broad way to cover how the hair looks to them is to say.."it's coarse".

Black people are not alone in this assumption about black people's hair. Believe it or not actual hair stylists that do not know their stuff about the actual properties of hair but just know how to style it OFTEN call hair that is not coarse.. coarse. Same thing with other groups that see blacks with their natural hair..because of how it looks they think it's coarse.

It's simply not possible to know someone has coarse hair by just merely glancing at it.. you would really need to examine some individual strands of their hair to determine whether it's fine, medium, or coarse. And that's by looking at it very closely and actually touching it to see if it feels thick (coarse), fine, or medium.

Hope that helps you out.
to answer the topic question. i would say yes. its not really all about the curl patttern but more about the texture. i dont know if i can type my thoughts eloquently enough but i will try.

something i noticed is that people of looser curls tend to have a similar range of texture charecteristics but the more curly the hair the more texture variations. no matter how big and bushy a 3a/b can be when dry it will cling close to the scalp like a 1a or a 2a when wet. on the other hand a 4a can either cling like a looser curl or resist gravity like a tighter one...i forgot where i was going with this but i hope this will explain what im thinking

type 1-mostly X or Y texture
type 2 -mostly X or Y texture
type 3- mostly X or Y sometimes Z texture
typ 4-sometimes X or Y, mostly Z,ZZ texture

going from this structure one who has say type 3 hair with Y texture could look at a person with 4 hair with Xor Y texture and see that it is similar but just smaller but that doesnt take into account the Z and ZZ texture that are more prevalent.

this is just a whole bunch of speculation and opinion but this is my answer. i hope it makes sense lol
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All these distinctions remind me of the octoroon / macaroon, whatever color distinction in old NOLA. Whether it's a cloud of 4c hair, a bunch of s-waves, a penspring, a pencil-sized, botticelli, a barely 2a - whatever - I call it curly.
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I totally agree with Marah! But I do have on question. Why is hair that is medium in strand texture seen as coars in the black community? When I think coarse I think of my sisters boyfriend who is asian, or my mom who has m/c hair as she gets older. When I was little my moms hair was just average "white"(she white) medium. And you know what my hair is a solid medium like my moms was when i was small. But when ever I got my hair relaxed at home or otherwise they treated it like they were relaxing coarse asian hair or something.

I don't really understand it. Can some one explain it? It seems like any hair that isn't fine in texture is considered coarse.
Originally Posted by Melanie_Linn
I don't understand your question-how did they treat it like it's coarse? I have all three textures on my head, but I call mine coarse b/c it's always been very tough overall like rope and doesn't break easily...even when relaxed my friends and I used to joke that I could pull a truck with my hair.
Originally Posted by ellepixie
I meant that it seems to me that hair that is actually medium in strand texture is treated like it is coarse by stylist. I was just wondering why it was treated like it was corse when it isn't?

For example my older sis had done my relaxers for years, she would buy relaxers for "coarse" hair to do mine. My hair in actuallity is medium textured. She would also leave it on for the max amount of time on the box, because my hair was "coarse."


Marah- Thank you. You actually answered my question. What you say makes sense to me.
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Speaking of kinky vs. curly. A customer on my job (Caucasian) came up to me while working and says, "I love your curly hair." and this older black woman that works with me say's, "What do you mean curly? Her hair isn't curly. Do you mean kinky-curly?" I was so floored that I didn't know what to say immediately. I just stood there with my mouth open looking confused along with customer who complimented me as she grabs my hand while she says," I just want you to know that your hair is beautiful."
I waited til later to go tell her (the old skool hater that is) that it has been hard enough for black women to be complimented on their natural beauty. The next time she hears a black woman receiving a compliment, just smile and nod.
I later hear telling another co-worker that she should not have cut her hair because it doesn't curl up like that other girls does.
I swear if I saw her in the street I would hesitate on hitting my brakes.
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Last edited by arkanfine; 07-23-2010 at 10:44 PM.
Speaking of kinky vs. curly. A customer on my job (Caucasian) came up to me while working and says, "I love your curly hair." and this older black woman that works with me say's, "What do you mean curly? Her hair isn't curly. Do you mean kinky-curly?" I was so floored that I didn't know what to say immediately. I just stood there with my mouth open looking confused along with customer who complimented me as she grabs my hand while she says," I just want you to know that your hair is beautiful."
I waited til later to go tell her (the old skool hater that is) that it has been hard enough for black women to be complimented on their natural beauty. The next time she hears a black woman receiving a compliment, just smile and nod.
I later hear telling another co-worker that she should not have cut her hair because it doesn't curl up like that other girls does.
I swear if I saw her in the street I would hesitate on hitting my brakes.
Originally Posted by arkanfine
was the older black woman natural also? was she saying she shouldn't have cut her hair?
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If it isn't straight or wavy, it's curly.

To black people, If it doesn't have curls without alot of product, it's kinky.And even with alot of product, it still looks like acloud, it's still kinky.

Kinky is a term used to describe tightly coiled hair, by any group of people.
To non blacks, tight hair(Julianna margueles)Is kinky because it's very tight, almost Afro-like.
Curly is the term for all non straight hair. All the other terms are subcategories.
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This is a great topic but one that confuses me. I think many of us are confused and JUST starting to really learn the TRUTH. For so long we have been basing things off of guessing, opinions, visual cues(that are apparently misleading) but no real facts. We've been taught so much misinformation we don't know what we are doing.

IMO, we have just started publicly talking about these things. We're questioning things in ways that we didn't in the past. I mean I know the 70's had a brief period of challenging beauty standards but this time around we are armed with access to more information.

Also there's so rules attached to blackness that trying to challenge anything is often seen(or accused) of not accepting yourself for what you are. I think this mentality plays a big part in why so many blacks don't challenge the status quo, who wants to be accused of trying to be a wanna be? Which is also why many people will say KINKY IS NOT CURLY and there are all these rules about what's curly or not.

It's why I changed my hair description from COILY rather than curly. I don't want anyone looking at me(or my avi) and saying "who does this bish think she's fooling!?" You know we are quick to accuse(or suspect) someone of trying not to be black!
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This is a great topic but one that confuses me. I think many of us are confused and JUST starting to really learn the TRUTH. For so long we have been basing things off of guessing, opinions, visual cues(that are apparently misleading) but no real facts. We've been taught so much misinformation we don't know what we are doing.

IMO, we have just started publicly talking about these things. We're questioning things in ways that we didn't in the past. I mean I know the 70's had a brief period of challenging beauty standards but this time around we are armed with access to more information.

Also there's so rules attached to blackness that trying to challenge anything is often seen(or accused) of not accepting yourself for what you are. I think this mentality plays a big part in why so many blacks don't challenge the status quo, who wants to be accused of trying to be a wanna be? Which is also why many people will say KINKY IS NOT CURLY and there are all these rules about what's curly or not.

It's why I changed my hair description from COILY rather than curly. I don't want anyone looking at me(or my avi) and saying "who does this bish think she's fooling!?" You know we are quick to accuse(or suspect) someone of trying not to be black!
Originally Posted by ms_clawed
True facts. Especially @ the bolded. The flip side is, there are a lot of black people out there that are
"wanna be's" in the purest sense of the word. They actually do want to be any and everything other than black. Having that "good curly hurr" is just another way for them to meet that goal. I'd actually say that it's one of THE easiest ways to distance yourself from the icky blackness. Hair texture and skin tone are two really big and touchy subjects for a lot of us. Who wants to be seen as (or accused of) being on a level with those self-hating, Uncle Ruckus acting fools?
I totally agree with Marah! But I do have on question. Why is hair that is medium in strand texture seen as coars in the black community? When I think coarse I think of my sisters boyfriend who is asian, or my mom who has m/c hair as she gets older. When I was little my moms hair was just average "white"(she white) medium. And you know what my hair is a solid medium like my moms was when i was small. But when ever I got my hair relaxed at home or otherwise they treated it like they were relaxing coarse asian hair or something.

I don't really understand it. Can some one explain it? It seems like any hair that isn't fine in texture is considered coarse.
Originally Posted by Melanie_Linn
I don't understand your question-how did they treat it like it's coarse? I have all three textures on my head, but I call mine coarse b/c it's always been very tough overall like rope and doesn't break easily...even when relaxed my friends and I used to joke that I could pull a truck with my hair.
Originally Posted by ellepixie
I meant that it seems to me that hair that is actually medium in strand texture is treated like it is coarse by stylist. I was just wondering why it was treated like it was corse when it isn't?

For example my older sis had done my relaxers for years, she would buy relaxers for "coarse" hair to do mine. My hair in actuallity is medium textured. She would also leave it on for the max amount of time on the box, because my hair was "coarse."


Marah- Thank you. You actually answered my question. What you say makes sense to me.
Originally Posted by Melanie_Linn
Ah okay, cool. Yes, what Marah said makes sense. And YIKES on her using the coarse relaxer on your hair - my mom used that ONCE, and my hair is coarse, and it burnt so much she never got it again!!! That stuff is like acid.
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Speaking of kinky vs. curly. A customer on my job (Caucasian) came up to me while working and says, "I love your curly hair." and this older black woman that works with me say's, "What do you mean curly? Her hair isn't curly. Do you mean kinky-curly?" I was so floored that I didn't know what to say immediately. I just stood there with my mouth open looking confused along with customer who complimented me as she grabs my hand while she says," I just want you to know that your hair is beautiful."
I waited til later to go tell her (the old skool hater that is) that it has been hard enough for black women to be complimented on their natural beauty. The next time she hears a black woman receiving a compliment, just smile and nod.
I later hear telling another co-worker that she should not have cut her hair because it doesn't curl up like that other girls does.
I swear if I saw her in the street I would hesitate on hitting my brakes.
Originally Posted by arkanfine
was the older black woman natural also? was she saying she shouldn't have cut her hair?
Originally Posted by hippychic
I guess she is natural. She says she hasn't gone without a wig since she was in her early 20's. And she was talking about another young lady at our job that is now sporting a cute little TWA.
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This is a great topic but one that confuses me. I think many of us are confused and JUST starting to really learn the TRUTH. For so long we have been basing things off of guessing, opinions, visual cues(that are apparently misleading) but no real facts. We've been taught so much misinformation we don't know what we are doing.

IMO, we have just started publicly talking about these things. We're questioning things in ways that we didn't in the past. I mean I know the 70's had a brief period of challenging beauty standards but this time around we are armed with access to more information.

Also there's so rules attached to blackness that trying to challenge anything is often seen(or accused) of not accepting yourself for what you are. I think this mentality plays a big part in why so many blacks don't challenge the status quo, who wants to be accused of trying to be a wanna be? Which is also why many people will say KINKY IS NOT CURLY and there are all these rules about what's curly or not.

It's why I changed my hair description from COILY rather than curly. I don't want anyone looking at me(or my avi) and saying "who does this bish think she's fooling!?" You know we are quick to accuse(or suspect) someone of trying not to be black!
Originally Posted by ms_clawed
True facts. Especially @ the bolded. The flip side is, there are a lot of black people out there that are
"wanna be's" in the purest sense of the word. They actually do want to be any and everything other than black. Having that "good curly hurr" is just another way for them to meet that goal. I'd actually say that it's one of THE easiest ways to distance yourself from the icky blackness. Hair texture and skin tone are two really big and touchy subjects for a lot of us. Who wants to be seen as (or accused of) being on a level with those self-hating, Uncle Ruckus acting fools?
Originally Posted by AmberBrown
Agreed, I know I don't. I am genuinely confused/frustrated at times with my hair. My hair isn't "nappy" enough to be considered that texture and not curly enough to be considered that texture it's like I'm somewhere in between. And I have NO visual or tangible experience with it.

I don't (or didn't until now) have many visual representations on WHAT my(or any OTHER natural) hair SHOULD look like. Except curly 3's or nappy locks or blown out fros. That was it and definitely no info on how it got that way or how to care for it. It was just if it looks shiny then its healthy and if its neat then its acceptable. KWIM?

Plus I really didn't know what I was doing, I didn't know that I was applying straight(relaxed) hair practices on my natural hair...I didn't know there was a difference. Not until I found message boards and YouTube. So in addition to learning new techniques there's a new philosophy we have to learn. Many of us are still surrounded by LOTS of hostility and ignorance which makes accepting all this newness hard

Even with all of this good common sense so many stigmas, misconceptions, bad practices, etc.. are SO deeply rooted that having these discussions for many is the ONLY time they have(or will) have an opportunity to questions their hair beliefs.

I'd be happy to find a whole boat load of MY hair twins. I'd be happy to see all the ins and outs of what my hair can do, what is should and shouldn't look like, what it looks like TWA to BSL+

I really didn't proof read this, it could all sound like a bunch of rambling but its the only place I have to express myself so I tend to go over board when I have a thought...LMAO
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when i first went natural and told my sister my hair was curly cause i no longer relax, she laugh at me.she told my brother in law who was standing next to her what i said. and i heard more laughter.they had the nerve to say your hair isnt curly it nappy, u are black.if my hair is curly it must be the mixed in me showing from past generations. i tired people thinking if u have curly hair u must be mixed. i have known people who arent mix,but have type 3 hair and biracial people with type 4.i consider my hair to be curly as well as kinky because i have a noticeable 3c/4a curls.big or small a curl is a curl.just because i dont have 3a curls dosent mean my curls or any less of a curl. my sister didnt know that nappy hair can have a curl patteren but shes not the only one who thinks way.
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Last edited by naturally yours; 07-24-2010 at 04:04 PM. Reason: to edit
I assumed my hair was plain ole curly, but when I submitted pics to a hair care company for typing was told it was wavy with curls on the bottom. Talk about confused. I figure if it bends, it's curly and I call it a day.

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Apparently, certain people feel that people of color have some sort of anomally type hair.

For instance.. curly hair is supposedly "unique" in some minds and these same minds are of the opinion that 4a hair and down is not curly hair at all but kinky which is supposed to be something different entirely.

And they both need to be taken care of differently BASED on the fact that one is curly and one is kinky.
Originally Posted by Marah Mizrahi
Does it even fu#&ing matter. These threads annoy me. Why is 4abcdefg and down the anomaly. Why isnt curly hair the anomaly after all 4ABCDEFG down is where it all started lol..

A lot of people no matter the race have hair that I classify as just plain ole nappy.. society has painted a vivid picture on what "curly" is...


I consider the woman in the middle to have "curly" hair and it looks fake like it was done with rollers the other two i classify as nappy... sad i know that unatural rolled looking hair is consider the curly hair, and the naturally curly hair isnt...

Sure if it coils, kinks, springs or whatever people tend to call it curly simply because it isn't straight.. if it bends, kinks, somehow reverts back on itself or is anything but straight then I guess it's curly...

Anyway as someone else said, They dont want to be seen as self-hating so they say their hair is coily.. I wont lie there are folks in this thread who have said they have curly hair AND I am Looking AND I'm Like W in T F, if you dont sit you a%s down....

I mean, it doenst freaking matter.. call your hair what you want... but curly has pretty much been defined and classified by society and dont get mad when folks give you the side eye...

With that said 4A's come in a wide variety of curls, kinks, coils etc, some 4As have tiny curls that are long, some have tiny- staw sized curls that curl back up to there heads... Me and my mom always say my little brother has good hair (lmaooo i know bad), that is way better than my hair.. he has the most beautiful naturally shiny tiny perfect 4A curls that cake to his head they don't fall, but they are like little springs, the size of a regular straw maybe a little smaller... but if you add product his natural shine instantly goes away and his hair becomes dull, and if you comb out the curls its instantly dull 4b hair very thick and afro textured like a whole different head of hair.. he has some of the oddest hair but i'm sure very very very common... 4A's come in a wide variety and his hair is certainly naturally curly... So the fact that 4A and down isnt curly is dumb..

Anyway the whole bases for this argument is do black folks have curly hair or is it something different.. I think some black folks have curly hair, some black folks have hair that simply isn't straight and it does what it does and i wouldnt say it was "curly".. and i hate the word kinky so i wouldn't use that word either.. I mean its hair we shouldnt be offended that someone said we have different hair that should be treated differently.. our hair is different, but the notion that it should be treated differently or have it's own classification other than "CURLY" is stoopid, EVERYONE HAS DIFFERENT HAIR and the same product that will work on a 2A's hair, won;t work for a 3B but will work for a 4A etc.. it doesnt freaking matter...

Evrytime i look at a cotton ball i think its curly Lmao have you ever pulled apart a cotton ball.. and i always think fros are curly too.. but i know what she means by the clouds with no curl pattern i'm just saying lol

Last edited by ~Curly~; 07-25-2010 at 06:34 AM.
Apparently, certain people feel that people of color have some sort of anomally type hair.

For instance.. curly hair is supposedly "unique" in some minds and these same minds are of the opinion that 4a hair and down is not curly hair at all but kinky which is supposed to be something different entirely.

And they both need to be taken care of differently BASED on the fact that one is curly and one is kinky.

IE: Mixed race people have "curly hair" and I guess others that are of color but not "mixed per se" have kinky hair.

So I wanted to ask here what people of color think about that..that actually have 4a-4c hair type. I'm asking in this section because it's obvious in the hair sections this is where most of the people in the 3c-4c range congregate the most.

Here's my take: It's Bull. First of all I don't see how on earth 4 category hair isn't curly. It sometimes coils, some have round curls, some have spirals, some have what look like loops. But all of that is still technically a curl..it may not be a defined curl in every case..but a curl no less. The only reason I call it "kinky" because the curls aren't as defined and not because I don't believe it's actually curly hair.
Originally Posted by Marah Mizrahi
I agree. To me a curl is a curl, be it 2a or 4b.


And there IS NO SUCH THING as "mixed race" or "biracial" hair. Hair is just hair mainly made up of the same stuff..keratin. The care of the hair has to do with knowing porosity, texture, and overall density..because hair typing really says nothing about how to care for the hair. It just gives a description on how the hair looks. And it doesn't matter if the curly hair falls into the "curly" description or "kinky" description.
Thank you! I am soooo sick of the "bi-racial hair" deal. I don't even like they way the term bi-racial is used. I know many bi-racial people (of course black mixed with "other" ) with 4a/4b hair. Both of my parents have 4b hair and mine came out completely different.
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no you guys are wrong, we mixed people all have the same hair type. NO ONE unless they too are mixed can understand a mixed persons hair. We mixeds have had enough. We would like our OWN hair care section in the walmarts and kmarts, ONLY for mixed people, because we all have the same hair. YOU WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND OUR HAIR NEVER WE ARE SO UNIQUE WE ARE SO UNIQUE AND DIFFICULT FOR BOTH BLACK AND WHITE PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND!!


Somebody done told you wrong sweetheart!

I'M mixed and am SURE that my hair is NOT the same as yours. It DOES NOT matter what race, what you're mixed with...everyone's hair is mostly different.

I've seen women who are 100% black who's hair is not as kinky as mine but more of a 2c-3a.



Originally Posted by turtles
Somebody done told you wrong sweetheart!

I'M mixed and am SURE that my hair is NOT the same as yours. It DOES NOT matter what race, what you're mixed with...everyone's hair is mostly different.

I've seen women who are 100% black who's hair is not as kinky as mine but more of a 2c-3a.


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