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Curly Gurus
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CurlTalk
> Hair
> 4
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As a 4b, do you at all feel alienated from the 4as, 3cs, and above?
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08-03-2010, 01:11 PM
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#21
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 214
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Add me to this list. I alternate wearing my hair natural and relaxed getting really short haircuts usually in summer. The last time I bc'd was 7 years ago. I was looking forward to this bc because of all the new techniques and wonderful products even though I knew I have no curl pattern. And of course, it's been very sobering to accept that these wonderful new products are not going give me the desired effect of some curls.
I go to the 4a forum because it's busier. But I also visit any forum with hair tips because when it comes to conditioning hair is hair. I've gotten some great tips from caucasian forums, especially when my hair is relaxed. And before all these natural products hit the market, I use to deep condition with Rene Furterer's Karite back in the 80/90s when shea butter was just being discovered by the hair industry.
I definitely agree that women with my hair texture tend not to go natural. What's sad about that for me is the lack of hair tips, which is why I go to other forums. So those of us who do are really on our own.
I have yet to see my hair twin. My hair is extremely coarse and wiry, like steel wool, even when moisturized. I once went for a consultation because I wanted locs and learned that my hair would not loc naturally and would have to be trained. My husband on the other hand, all he has to do is not comb his hair and it will loc naturally. Because my hair is so dense and at that time so thick, I elected not to do it because it was just too much of a hassle.
I'm 4 weeks into this bc, no cones, no heat. But truthfully, my hair loves heat. It also responds to conditioner and does not knot up on the ends as it grows. But the shrinkage is unreal. But I love wearing my hair short and natural in the summer. To me it looks great.
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08-03-2010, 01:28 PM
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#22
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Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 16,026
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When I first came on this board the 4a section was a graveyard. If you start posting in 4b, they will come. It's already happening, just needs to happen more. I'm mostly 4a, but tend to respond to posts in other type forums when it's appropriate.
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08-03-2010, 02:24 PM
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#23
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Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 177
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I definitely agree...we just have to post and respond more here...
__________________
last perm ~ late May 2009 BC'd ~ July 1, 2009
fotki ~ last updated 2/2011
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08-03-2010, 11:02 PM
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#24
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 21
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Amber, I'm incredibly flattered beyond words. Thank you.
With regard to the topic at hand, I think we're just the least likely to go natural. Also, when it's very well cared for and moisturized (with all the edges neatly tucked in) it can look as if it's something else.
I can't tell you how many times, when I'm wearing one of my twisted hair styles that people have referred to my hair as "good hair."
But let me wear a puff or some style like my box braids where my edges are out in all their nappy glory and that's when my naps tell no tales. I rarely, if ever get any compliments...not that I'm looking for any but that's the way it goes.
To the original poster, we do have an internet presence, however, many naturals prefer not to identify with the whole hair typing system and so they're no likely to broadcast that they're a 4B. You've also got folks declaring that they're a 4C, which I think is just 4B hair. But for some reason, they think their hair is the nappiest on earth and so they can't possibly be a 4B. Eh...whatever. But basically, someone who says they're a 4c is really a 4b.
The cNapp albums page of my blog still has some pretty good active links so go there. And this may help as well.
http://cnappymenow.com/
Good luck!
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08-04-2010, 08:29 AM
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#25
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,162
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OMG!!! I LOVE MS GG!! She and Mimicutelips are the main two that kept me focused during transition while I drooled over their hair albums. I had no idea she had a blog or youtube. And she has my blog link on her page. OMG!!!
Thanks for sharirng!!!
Also check out http://members.fotki.com/AuNappturale/. She has a head full of long gorgeous 4b hair.
Last edited by Kinky Rhonnie; 08-04-2010 at 08:32 AM.
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08-04-2010, 10:07 AM
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#26
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 352
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RE:
Agreed. If I didn't hate cameras so much.. I'd start a fotki.  ...
__________________
 Reyna
"Don't look back and ask why, look forward and ask why not!?" - Unk.
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08-04-2010, 10:25 AM
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#27
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Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 232
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You know, reading some of the issues on this post brings to mind a thread I started a week or two ago about 3’s being the true curly hair. There was so much blowback from the post you would think I was discussing 9-11 or something of that magnitude.
Anyhow, I think it is interesting that some of you gals mentioned not being able to relate to terms like curl formation and that sort of thing and that speaks DIRECTLY to my point on that post. I think calling everyone curly can be a problem….Because everyone is NOT curly. Some are straight, some are wavy, some are curly and some are kinky. Of course we know that wavy and kinky are forms of curl, but nevertheless the hair’s properties are quite different. I feel that a lot of women of color now want to erroneously identify with curly because it makes them feel better. And that should not be the purpose of going natural. Going natural should be about accepting your hair AS IT IS and making an honest assessment of it. There is some escapism, I feel, in using the term curly as an umbrella term. Wavy hair has its own characteristics and they are different than curly. Kinky hair has its very own beautiful personality and it is different than curly hair. In any case, I think you 4b ladies should be proud of hell of what you have – I have seen some GORGEOUS heads of 4b and mouth-dropping fros – when hair is nourished properly. And what about dreads and twists? I have seen some beautiful manes….
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08-04-2010, 10:53 AM
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#28
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 269
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It's so funny that this post comes up now...
Just the other day, after I cleansed my hair, I was looking at my hair and wondering if I had my curl type wrong. There very small sections of my hair when wet with no product (mostly in the crown or very near the crown) that have bigger, looser s-shaped curls that are about pencil-sized. I assumed that those were 3c curls. The rest of my head has a mixture of s-shaped and o-shaped curls that are pen spring or coffee stirrer size. My hair is also super dense (thick) with medium-sized strands. My teensy-tiny curls are easily "undefined" (for lack of a better term) even when wet with gel in them so my hair can easily look like a cloud of dense 4b hair on any given day.
Which made me begin to wonder if what I have is 4b hair and I have just been placing it in the wrong category all this time. The small sections of my hair with pencil-sized curls might actually be the 4a hair that I think I have on the majority of my head instead of 3c like I've been thinking.
My understanding of the difference between 4a hair and 4b hair is that 4a hair has visible curls and even if they are very tiny curls, curls are present. 4b hair, on the other hand, does not curl or have a curl pattern to speak of. Is this correct?
If I turn out to have 4b hair and not 4a as I originally thought, I would still frequent any board that could give me good, reliable information on how to care for my hair. Right now I am just as likely to visit the 2 board as I am the 4b board and respond if I feel I have something to say or add or have a question.
To be honest with you, I'm about to go the way of many and just forget about the whole hair typing thing. It's really confusing and the things that have helped me learn what my hair likes and dislikes have more to do with understanding its porosity and density more so than the size of its curl...
Bel
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08-04-2010, 02:29 PM
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#29
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 50
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This is a great post. I always tried to stay away from 'typing' my hair, but when pressed, would say 4a becasue I was told that initially when I went natural by a stylist in a 'natural' salon. Also, I agree with others who say the 4a board gets a lot of traffic and that's where I hang out mostly because I think more people post there and a lot of the tips I get there work for me. However, I was visiting a salon this weekend where I was told I had 4c hair so perhaps there are many people like me who just are defining their hair incorrectly? Or maybe its just futile to define your hair because to someone I'm a 4a and now to someone else I'm a 4c? Who knows...
If anyone is curious, I asked what makes someone a 4c vs 4a vs 4b and was told, "4a's grow down, 4b's grow out, 4c's grow up, it really has nothing to do with curl definition or pattern" The stylist also said most 4's, even though their hair looks curly, are actually sporting more of a zig-zag pattern (I always thought mine was curly but whatever?)...I'm not sure I agree with everything the stylist said but, it was an interesting conversation...
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08-04-2010, 03:28 PM
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#30
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 70
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This makes a lot of sense, but I think it's a bit tricky because it's more covert negativity directed toward it than anything. No one says "ugh, 4b hair is so awful and anyone who has it is ugly and low class", but more so "4b hair is as dry as the sahara desert and it can't do any of the cool things that 4a and below can. This hair is fuzzy and unmanageable...but if you have it you should love it anyway!" Sort of like a you-were-born-with-something-awful-but-love-yourself thing.
My hair sounds a lot like yours. Reading the boards helped me a lot, but I still can't really find anything that really moisturizes my hair. It's an ongoing journey, but I wouldn't turn back for the world.
I swear, it's like a caste system sometimes.
Exactly! I've noticed that too. Although there are only a few 4b's who do tutorials, some helpful ones are mwedzi (looooove her hair) and sera2544.
This right here is 100% truth. It's no surprise when everyone and their mother swear up and down that they are .0001% cherokee, which somehow makes them significantly less black. If you're pretty, best believe it was caused by that drop of irish that entered the family centuries ago. Le sigh.
You're not spamming at all, we need these links! Also, I'm just in awe over how thick her hair is. *lick*
I agree completely. We are kinda left out in the dark, huh? I know you haven't found your hair twin yet, but from the sound of it, your hair is very nice. My ends tangle and knot up, no matter what I do. If it's twisted all the way down, moisturized and trimmed, it still acts naughty no matter what. I wish I could wear my hair unstretched at times.
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08-04-2010, 03:29 PM
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#31
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 70
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Well hopefully, this topic will contribute to the "more posts for 4b" movement. =)
That's a damn shame. In know you you aren't looking for anyone's approval over your hair, but it's still nice to get compliments. I also agree with you about the 4c thing...I don't think that category (if any) is necessary. Thank you for the link, btw.
Your last post was on point, but I'm not sure I agree with this one. Yes, we are kind of left out in the curl definition thing, but it's not a "I wish my hair could do that" type of thing, but "wow, I can't even use 90% of these tips on this website" thing. Also, just because our curls are tight and don't clump together doesn't mean we don't have any at all. I know you said that kinky hair is formed from curly hair, but to not refer to it as curly, imo, is like saying that lemonade doesn't have lemons. I not going to sit here and deny that kinky hair is different from looser curls, but at the end of the day, it's still curly (although insanely tight).
Nevertheless, I still love it.
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08-04-2010, 03:30 PM
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#32
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 70
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To my understanding, 4a hair is hair that has a curl pattern that can be seen from far away. 4b hair can still have lots of curls or z patterns, but it appears as a soft, fluffy cloud. I looked at your fotki and it kind of looks to be like you have 4b hair..
You know what...this hair typing thing is super confusing. I'm probably gonna be like you and others and just ditch it.
Lmao, you can't even count on hair stylists to tell you. I'm with you on the curl thing...my hair does not zig zag at all and forms a perfect "o" ever time if you pluck my hair. Hair typing is such a disaster...
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08-04-2010, 03:37 PM
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#33
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 74
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I agree!
I agree that 4bs should post here more often.
I don't think everyone is in denial about being 4b - it's just that others are more likely to respond in the 4a section. However, I would personally like to see more hairstyles and haircare tips that actually embrace our 4b texture (i.e. no more twistouts).
__________________
Black African Hair
There's only one like it in the world!
Preshampoo - Joico Moisture Recovery Treatment Balm
Shampoo - KC Come Clean
Condition - Joico Moisture Recovery
Leave In - KCKT, Kiehl's Formula 133
Seal - Jojoba Oil
Moisturize - Rosewater
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08-04-2010, 04:23 PM
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#34
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 413
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I kinda don't dig the whole hair typing system because unfortunately it does divide us a bit even though it isn't meant to. I'm a huge fan of 4b hair. I have very little of it on my head, just two small patches at my hair line, but I think 4b hair holds styles a lot better than any other type (twist outs, braid outs, etc.), and I enjoy the fluffy look of it. I even love the way 4b wash & gos look. I come over to this thread sometimes but there's not a lot of action here. I think we can all learn a lot from each other, and I take advice from any hair type, as long as it's good. 
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08-05-2010, 04:29 AM
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#35
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,442
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errrkay...
I'm lost! LOL I'm about to say to HADES with the typing because its CONFUSING (and not really that useful!) I thought the difference between 4a and b was S shape vs Z shape? I don't see that as being a big enough difference to really matter. I post most often in 4a because that's where the traffic is LOL According to that faux-chart my hair is 4a but I've got 3c at the nape and random STRAIGHT hairs all over (explain THAT Andre!) 
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08-05-2010, 07:35 AM
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#36
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 8
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Why we dont have alot of 4b's
I think most people with 4b hair, end up locking their hair, and thats why we dont have alot of 4b's with loose hair on youtube, fotki or here. I know I was ready to lock mine too... not because I was frustrated... on the contrary, coz everyone was telling me how my hair would be "perfect" for locking.
But I do agree that we need to generate traffic on this here channel :-)
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08-05-2010, 08:07 AM
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#37
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 269
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I know! What's that all about?
I've noticed I have (mostly on the sides) single strands of hair here and there that are much, much longer than the rest of my hair (by at least 3 sometimes 4 inches) that I could actually be classified as very, very loose wavy hair (almost straight for some of them). 
At first I thought it might have been hair that got inadvertantly stretched somehow with the whole detangling process but I can spray tons and tons of water on those strands and they won't shrink up and curl down to the curliness of the rest of my hair. It's very weird. 
I know it's not heat damage because I haven't put heat on my hair (to straighten or stretch my hair) in years. I use a heat cap sometimes if I'm in a hurry for my prepoo and/or my deep treatment, but for no longer than 30 minutes.
My son is growing his hair out and has a nice, full 'fro going on and I noticed one day after he cleansed his hair and I was helping him to pick it out that he has these same random straight-ish to wavey single strands on his head as well that don't curl up with water (also on the sides of his head).
To top that off, when I went to visit my parents earlier this summer, my mom has a HUGE gray 'fro.  It's absolutely gorgeous! I'm trying to talk her into letting me post a picture of it on my Fotki or even on here but she's leery of her pic on the internet...
Anyhoo, I twisted her hair for a twist out and I spotted these same single strands of wavey-straightish hair on her head but hers were more towards the back of her head.
I told her, "So that's where me and Michael (my son) get this from." And we laughed about it. She's just as lost as I am about where the hairs came from and what they're doing on our heads. 
In my family instead of SSKs (single strand knots) we have SSWs (single strand waves).
It's so fun, though, playing with and learning more and more about my hair and just hair in general. 
Bel
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08-05-2010, 10:46 AM
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#38
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 1
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Just needing some positivity and inspiration today
I was proud to see more natural women in TV commercials. Yes, their hair looked more mixed, but we, as black women, and society seemed to want to embrace our natural beauty. I BC’d Jan 2010, and honestly didn’t remember what my natural hair was like but I knew it was a 4. YouTube and this site, NaturallyCurly, became my “best friends” in my new journey. As my hair is growing out (3 inches stretched but looks like 1 inch unstretched), I see that I’m mostly 4b (with some 4a very tight pen coils.) I was cool with that because I like my natural hair and thought it looked cute, but I started have doubts last night when a friend (3c) who I hadn’t seen for a while laughed and said “dang girl, your hair looks like wool and I can hardly tell that it’s growing at all.” Then she hastily added, “but some women like their hair like that.”
Sorry, just needing some positivity and some inspiration from 4b sisters today…
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08-05-2010, 01:14 PM
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#39
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 74
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Positivismo!
Tinkerbell, congratulations on the BC!
I don't understand why your friend would make those comments. Was she expecting you to be black Rapunzel after seven months? Kinky hair (and curly hair) shrinks. As you can see on many hair forums, lots of ladies do thoroughly enjoy their "wooly" hair!
If everyone ran around with the same 3c-Kinky-Curly-Curling-Custard-jheri-curl the world would be a very boring place. Be unique and rock your 4b 'do!
__________________
Black African Hair
There's only one like it in the world!
Preshampoo - Joico Moisture Recovery Treatment Balm
Shampoo - KC Come Clean
Condition - Joico Moisture Recovery
Leave In - KCKT, Kiehl's Formula 133
Seal - Jojoba Oil
Moisturize - Rosewater
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08-09-2010, 08:22 AM
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#40
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 352
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RE:
I agree with all the bolded.. especially the green.
__________________
Reyna
"Don't look back and ask why, look forward and ask why not!?" - Unk.
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