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Old 05-27-2011, 06:24 PM   #81
 
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Originally Posted by Saila View Post
There is no easy solution. You can't invent a vaccine for colorism immunity. Social change is a slow, gradual process. Often time this process begins with a conversation. This film will do just that. It doesn't matter if it is "nothing new". How will people come up with solutions if we all refuse to discuss and expose?

If adult black women are being brought to tears over this preview, they are obviously discussing something very painful. This pain won't go away if we just stay quite. Conversations need to happen... Between mothers, daughters, fathers and brothers.

Kudos to them for their efforts.
Word...and why kill it before you've even seen it? People have already determined what it will be, and it's not even out yet. If you sat and watched "Good Hair", with Chris Rock, which was a waste of screen space, I know you can sit thru a Bill Duke documentary.

Instead of being concerned about dirty laundry being aired, how about washing the clothes? Interesting concept, eh? That starts with dialogue. I'm for shouting it from the rooftops. If it embarrasses you, then use that shame to condemn the ignorance, not silence the messenger because you're tired of hearing about it. Well I'm tired of the sickness.
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Old 05-27-2011, 06:35 PM   #82
 
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ok... here's my 1.5 cents:

i never experienced all of this darkk skinned/light skinned good hair/bad hair stuff growing. i didnt even know these issues existed until i started surfing the internet regularly (around the time that young berg said that dark butt thing). i like docs like these, because they show me issues from a perspective that ive never seen them from before.

the only time i have a problem with a doc is when it doesnt try to provide any theories for WHY things are the way we are. that's why i didnt like Good Hair, what's the point of talking about women paying thousands for weave, and indian women getting snatched bald in their sleep if youre not going to tell me WHY they might feel the need to do all of that (i already know why... but clearly the doc wasn't made for people who already know the history behind black hair, so a little context would be nice). this is just a preview, so idk what the full thing will look like, but i'm cool with it as long as they provide historical context and some dialogue about moving toward solving the problem. on the other hand, i will be side eying if the whole doc is black women crying and people saying ignorant things about dark skin and natural hair...

well... that's all... if it makes any sense.
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Old 05-27-2011, 06:38 PM   #83
 
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ok... here's my 1.5 cents:

i never experienced all of this darkk skinned/light skinned good hair/bad hair stuff growing. i didnt even know these issues existed until i started surfing the internet regularly (around the time that young berg said that dark butt thing). i like docs like these, because they show me issues from a perspective that ive never seen them from before.

the only time i have a problem with a doc is when it doesnt try to provide any theories for WHY things are the way we are. that's why i didnt like Good Hair, what's the point of talking about women paying thousands for weave, and indian women getting snatched bald in their sleep if youre not going to tell me WHY they might feel the need to do all of that (i already know why... but clearly the doc wasn't made for people who already know the history behind black hair, so a little context would be nice). this is just a preview, so idk what the full thing will look like, but i'm cool with it as long as they provide historical context and some dialogue about moving toward solving the problem. on the other hand, i will be side eying if the whole doc is black women crying and people saying ignorant things about dark skin and natural hair...

well... that's all... if it makes any sense.
I can't imagine it would be that, considering who's producing it.
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Old 05-27-2011, 06:38 PM   #84
 
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Originally Posted by Saila View Post
There is no easy solution. You can't invent a vaccine for colorism immunity. Social change is a slow, gradual process. Often time this process begins with a conversation. This film will do just that. It doesn't matter if it is "nothing new". How will people come up with solutions if we all refuse to discuss and expose?

If adult black women are being brought to tears over this preview, they are obviously discussing something very painful. This pain won't go away if we just stay quite. Conversations need to happen... Between mothers, daughters, fathers and brothers.

Kudos to them for their efforts.
Exactly!!!


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Word...and why kill it before you've even seen it? People have already determined what it will be, and it's not even out yet. If you sat and watched "Good Hair", with Chris Rock, which was a waste of screen space, I know you can sit thru a Bill Duke documentary.

Instead of being concerned about dirty laundry being aired, how about washing the clothes? Interesting concept, eh? That starts with dialogue. I'm for shouting it from the rooftops. If it embarrasses you, then use that shame to condemn the ignorance, not silence the messenger because you're tired of hearing about it. Well I'm tired of the sickness.

Yes! I HAD to highlight that whole section! lol and the people who are trying to put the situation in the closet are apart of the group, who this movie is supposed to be for. They haven't judged people by their skin color but ignoring it like its not a huge issue is just as bad. I mean come on!
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Old 05-27-2011, 06:40 PM   #85
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I think that movies like this do serve a purpose.
I agree that they serve a very good purpose, because by highlighting the issue it will help to motivate people to change it.

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Originally Posted by naturallychelsea View Post
Also, I do not buy into the story that by highlighting our issues the "others" will have a reason to talk about us.
I respectfully disagree. The movie 'Good Hair' gave some people from other races an excuse to laugh at us.

I love Chris Rock, but I was very disappointed when he came over to the UK and started making fun of black women on TV.

He was on a talk show going on about how so many black women love fake hair and relaxers etc etc. The majority of the audience was white and they were laughing. He even said that Mrs Obama wears a weave track in her hair. One of the English comedians who was on the set with him was appauled. He said something like 'I cannot believe the first lady of the United States wears a weave!'
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Old 05-27-2011, 06:48 PM   #86
 
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Originally Posted by naturallychelsea View Post
I think that movies like this do serve a purpose.
I agree that they serve a very good purpose, because by highlighting the issue it will help to motivate people to change it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by naturallychelsea View Post
Also, I do not buy into the story that by highlighting our issues the "others" will have a reason to talk about us.
I respectfully disagree. The movie 'Good Hair' gave some people from other races an excuse to laugh at us.

I love Chris Rock, but I was very disappointed when he came over to the UK and started making fun of black women on TV.

He was on a talk show going on about how so many black women love fake hair and relaxers etc etc. The majority of the audience was white and they were laughing. He even said that Mrs Obama wears a weave track in her hair. One of the English comedians who was on the set with him was appauled. He said something like 'I cannot believe the first lady of the United States wears a weave!'
I do understand what you mean by the Chris Rock movie, I have yet to see it and I don't plan on it. But I don't think his movie should be compared to this movie. Hatred in our own community is a sad issue, rather or not people will make fun of us or not, it has to be addressed. What would be a better way for people to understand and get better about this situation? There is no way we can broadcast it so that only black people will see it. I'm willing to take that chance so that our people will stop being so ignorant about our issues within our community.
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Old 05-27-2011, 06:54 PM   #87
 
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Originally Posted by NEA View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saila View Post
There is no easy solution. You can't invent a vaccine for colorism immunity. Social change is a slow, gradual process. Often time this process begins with a conversation. This film will do just that. It doesn't matter if it is "nothing new". How will people come up with solutions if we all refuse to discuss and expose?

If adult black women are being brought to tears over this preview, they are obviously discussing something very painful. This pain won't go away if we just stay quite. Conversations need to happen... Between mothers, daughters, fathers and brothers.

Kudos to them for their efforts.
Word...and why kill it before you've even seen it? People have already determined what it will be, and it's not even out yet. If you sat and watched "Good Hair", with Chris Rock, which was a waste of screen space, I know you can sit thru a Bill Duke documentary.

Instead of being concerned about dirty laundry being aired, how about washing the clothes? Interesting concept, eh? That starts with dialogue. I'm for shouting it from the rooftops. If it embarrasses you, then use that shame to condemn the ignorance, not silence the messenger because you're tired of hearing about it. Well I'm tired of the sickness.

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Old 05-27-2011, 07:01 PM   #88
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NEA View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saila View Post
There is no easy solution. You can't invent a vaccine for colorism immunity. Social change is a slow, gradual process. Often time this process begins with a conversation. This film will do just that. It doesn't matter if it is "nothing new". How will people come up with solutions if we all refuse to discuss and expose?

If adult black women are being brought to tears over this preview, they are obviously discussing something very painful. This pain won't go away if we just stay quite. Conversations need to happen... Between mothers, daughters, fathers and brothers.

Kudos to them for their efforts.
Word...and why kill it before you've even seen it? People have already determined what it will be, and it's not even out yet. If you sat and watched "Good Hair", with Chris Rock, which was a waste of screen space, I know you can sit thru a Bill Duke documentary.

Instead of being concerned about dirty laundry being aired, how about washing the clothes? Interesting concept, eh? That starts with dialogue. I'm for shouting it from the rooftops. If it embarrasses you, then use that shame to condemn the ignorance, not silence the messenger because you're tired of hearing about it. Well I'm tired of the sickness.

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Old 05-27-2011, 07:09 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by AlikaIssa View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by naturallychelsea View Post
I think that movies like this do serve a purpose.
I agree that they serve a very good purpose, because by highlighting the issue it will help to motivate people to change it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by naturallychelsea View Post
Also, I do not buy into the story that by highlighting our issues the "others" will have a reason to talk about us.
I respectfully disagree. The movie 'Good Hair' gave some people from other races an excuse to laugh at us.

I love Chris Rock, but I was very disappointed when he came over to the UK and started making fun of black women on TV.

He was on a talk show going on about how so many black women love fake hair and relaxers etc etc. The majority of the audience was white and they were laughing. He even said that Mrs Obama wears a weave track in her hair. One of the English comedians who was on the set with him was appauled. He said something like 'I cannot believe the first lady of the United States wears a weave!'
I do understand what you mean by the Chris Rock movie, I have yet to see it and I don't plan on it. But I don't think his movie should be compared to this movie. Hatred in our own community is a sad issue, rather or not people will make fun of us or not, it has to be addressed. What would be a better way for people to understand and get better about this situation? There is no way we can broadcast it so that only black people will see it. I'm willing to take that chance so that our people will stop being so ignorant about our issues within our community.
Good points.
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Old 05-27-2011, 07:41 PM   #90
 
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It kind of bothers me that the documentary never mentions hateful things said to light skin people. I don't know how many times I've been called "high yella" or "redbone" which I absolutely hate. Several of my friends from places like the Philapines, Cuba, Costa Rica and Mexico have all told me I'm not Black. They say "you're not Black, you're our color"... and I say "I may be your shade, but I'm Black." It's like some people think you have to be dark to be Black. And believe it or not I have a lot of relatives who only date brown or dark skin people because although they have light skin they don't find it attractive.
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Old 05-27-2011, 07:51 PM   #91
 
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It kind of bothers me that the documentary never mentions hateful things said to light skin people. I don't know how many times I've been called "high yella" or "redbone" which I absolutely hate. Several of my friends from places like the Philapines, Cuba, Costa Rica and Mexico have all told me I'm not Black. They say "you're not Black, you're our color"... and I say "I may be your shade, but I'm Black." It's like some people think you have to be dark to be Black. And believe it or not I have a lot of relatives who only date brown or dark skin people because although they have light skin they don't find it attractive.
The documentary is called "Dark Girls", so it's not about light skin prejudice. Also, while I know light complexioned blacks get grief, I also know that a lot of the grief that is given is rooted in envy and resentment...because light skin is so prized among many black people.

So, whether or not you're light or dark, the answer is to educate and not let ignorance slide.
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Old 05-27-2011, 08:01 PM   #92
 
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It kind of bothers me that the documentary never mentions hateful things said to light skin people. I don't know how many times I've been called "high yella" or "redbone" which I absolutely hate. Several of my friends from places like the Philapines, Cuba, Costa Rica and Mexico have all told me I'm not Black. They say "you're not Black, you're our color"... and I say "I may be your shade, but I'm Black." It's like some people think you have to be dark to be Black. And believe it or not I have a lot of relatives who only date brown or dark skin people because although they have light skin they don't find it attractive.
The documentary is called "Dark Girls", so it's not about light skin prejudice. Also, while I know light complexioned blacks get grief, I also know that a lot of the grief that is given is rooted in envy and resentment...because light skin is so prized among many black people.

So, whether or not you're light or dark, the answer is to educate and not let ignorance slide.
The grass is always greener...

I have seen ignorance in this hair board...but that's why it is necessary to teach but sometimes even if you teach, it may not sink in. People will think what they want to think. Sad.
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Old 05-27-2011, 09:16 PM   #93
 
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I normally don't even click these threads because fire is usually coming off of my screen the moment I get to reading, but I have to say +1 to all that CocoT and NEA have said so far. As well as the point about racists not needing any excuse or reason to be racist.

Also, why do black people have to continue to act like all is well in the world with us and put on this mask for everyone else when we KNOW good and damn well that it is not. I watch every other group of people (whether an ethnicity, nationality, or "special interest" group) fight for their issues - drawing inspiration from our more active past as a people - and bring attention to their issues not just to their own community, but to the nation, and even to the world for some. They bring about change to their situation while we sit around and talk about how we shouldn't discuss our own personal matters.

I see things like this: if 150+ years after slavery, we are still struggling with issues that we know are a direct result of slavery, then we should be sounding a VERY loud alarm. However, as I study from then to now, with each new generation, the blanketing sentiment grows more and more apathetic. There's many reasons for this, but not enough room or time for that now. The main thing is, we should never be quiet about our issues until they are resolved.

The first step to freedom is being aware that you are not free in the first place. As such, that means you have to be aware. If all of us are not aware of what's going on in our community, then how can we have intelligent dialog? And if we don't have intelligent dialog, how can we go about talking about solutions and taking steps to implement solutions to make our situation better? Just sayin'.
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Old 05-27-2011, 09:24 PM   #94
 
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I think everyone should speak their truth and that speaking your truth can help you purge your demons. For that alone I think a documentary like this has value and doesn't necessarily have to have answers. Also, an entire movie of black women crying over their childhoods may prevent one parent from making an ignorant comment to their child in the future. And that is worth it to me.

Colorism is truly sad because it hurts so many people so deeply. My aunt is very beautiful and very light skinned. Many would think that she would love how she looks, and yet she confessed to me that she hates her complexion and hates looking at her pale skin everyday. It made me sad that she can't love herself fully because of what she has been taught is beautiful. Truly we need to be able to look in the mirror and love what we see, not matter the complexion we have. Black is beautiful in all the colors of our rainbow.
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Old 05-27-2011, 09:29 PM   #95
 
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It seems like it will be a poignant doc. However, I do see where the objections come from. I remember when Anderson Cooper KEPT talking about the updated, 21st century "doll test" over and over and over...and then proceeded to do his own version of it. It was overkill. It was as though a doc intended for a Black audience (which I had seen months before) was broadcast to whites (the people who CREATED this issue) on CNN multiple nights in succession. I couldn't help but question grey-eyed Anderson's intent. I hate that we're always portayed as being dissatisfied w/ self when that is not how most of us feel.
With that said, I HATE that skin color has pained these girls (and others) and whenever I hear that mess in my presence, I correct the person immediately and have to keep myself from strangling him/her.

I also wonder if this will have any effect. We've been through the Movement, dashikis, Black pride/Black is beautiful, Afros, renaming ourselves indigenous Afr. names and fast forward the clock, too many of our kids STILL prefer the white doll, still see their hair as "ugly", still adhere to the paper bag rules and now have mothers w/ blue contacts, bleaching cream and store-bought horsetail for hair. If these thoughts endured the 60's/70's w/ that segment of our population, do we really think a documentary (or a series of them) will open these stupid ppl's eyes? If that dude didn't catch how dumb he sounded on camera, do we really think he (and all of his like-minded friends) will correct their ways b/c of a discussion?
I'm not knocking the documentary. It seems like it will be well done and very moving. But, like the doll test remake, it can be used to buttress the "pathetic, Black woman/I'm-so-glad-I'm-not-a-Black-girl" narrative (when combined with other "reports"/articles/docs about us): poor, unmarried, uneducated, ugly, wants-to-be-white...blah, blah blah. Next time Barbara Walters claims, on national television, that Black women are trying to look white, we shouldn't object b/c this is how we're portraying (and generalizing) ourselves. Next time a researcher claims that we're less attractive, we shouldn't object b/c according to our own portrayals of self, we DON'T like the way we look either.
Two years ago, I wouldn't have responded so cynically. But, there have just been a series of attacks on us and "explorations" of the Black woman's psyche (w/ respect to "blackness"), it's exasperating. Even a promising, genuine documentary seems like more of the same.
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Old 05-27-2011, 09:32 PM   #96
 
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It kind of bothers me that the documentary never mentions hateful things said to light skin people. I don't know how many times I've been called "high yella" or "redbone" which I absolutely hate. Several of my friends from places like the Philapines, Cuba, Costa Rica and Mexico have all told me I'm not Black. They say "you're not Black, you're our color"... and I say "I may be your shade, but I'm Black." It's like some people think you have to be dark to be Black. And believe it or not I have a lot of relatives who only date brown or dark skin people because although they have light skin they don't find it attractive.
The documentary is called "Dark Girls", so it's not about light skin prejudice. Also, while I know light complexioned blacks get grief, I also know that a lot of the grief that is given is rooted in envy and resentment...because light skin is so prized among many black people.

So, whether or not you're light or dark, the answer is to educate and not let ignorance slide.
You snatched the words out of my mouth. I am brown ( though I am called "red" in the South) and people are mostly indifferent to my complexion. However, I can vividly recall the taunts and name calling of darker skin friends from being a child all the way until they are adults, though the taunts are more subliminal as you get older. I have a friend who gorgeous and dresses like a fashionista.I was talking to a black guy acquaintance about her and he said he didn't find her "striking". He couldn't define what that meant, she dresses well, has a good personality and is cute, so what is not striking about her? I knew it was because for her to be dark skin, she had to be "extra cute" to be striking. Funny since his asian girlfriend is anything but cute ( for real).

I have another dark skin friend who was teased unmercifully and she carries those scars to this day. I also noticed she always seems to have a problem with light skin women, whether it's celebrities
( hates Beyonce, Alicia Keys, Rhianna) or the girlfriend of a male friend. I never address her on this, but I know it is because of her insecurity and anger that lighter woman are often deemed worthy of attention.

People of all backgrounds get picked on, but we all know that there are certain groups of people who get the brunt of the abuse. These women are truly hurting and I am sure it is therapeutic for them to speak out and possibly know that they are helping others who feel the same way... why should they care about what others will think of them doing this documentary ... they spent all their lives dealing and worrying about other people's opinions as it is
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Old 05-27-2011, 09:34 PM   #97
 
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Lawd, something else for SargeWP to jump on.

Anyway, I have conflicted feelings about the documentary and the discussion at hand. I cannot relate to what the women in the video were expressing from experience. Never once in my whole entire almost 33 years of life has anyone of any race EVER said anything negative about my skin tone to me. I've always gotten praised for it within the black community and out of it. And I certainly know why. Because I'm in the middle (light brown-caramel) my skin tone doesn't clash with any animosity in the black community and for white folks since I'm light brown I can stick around..so I get it...I pass the paper bag test..borderline though IMO.

But I certainly know about the stigma that darker skinned blacks in America face. Particularly, dark skinned black women. I definitely think there is a beauty standard in the USA that promotes the idea of the less dark and of West African decent you look the more attractive you can be considered. I think blacks have adopted this attitude and worry about it much more than other races.

So on one hand.. I understand the point of the documentary to bring this subject to the forefront and allow black people (and others) to see the affects of this stigma (as opposed to us all just knowing it exists) but on the other hand I feel like so what ? I mean this stuff has been going and is going to continue to go on. And the whole whoa is me thing isn't going to get it.

I don't think there is anything the black community in the USA will ever be able to do to eradicate this color issue. So I think it's up to the individual to find a way to be okay in their own skin and get inspiration where they can find it. There are dark skinned women out here to take inspiration from.. Phyllis Yvonne Stickney, Alek Wek, Tangi Miller, Naomi Campbell, Tika Sumptner, Oprah Winfrey, Patti Labelle, Nia Long, Kerry Washington, Sommore, Gabrielle Union, Jennifer Hudson, Keisha Knight Pulliam, Angie Stone, India Arie.

And all those people are famous and are all different hues of dark skinned black women. And clearly their skin tones haven't totally held them back although I'm sure it was a problem at some point. But clearly they didn't give up. Having said that..I feel sort of the same way about the whole "tragic mullato" mess. It's like please get the eff over ya self. Ya tragic cause you make your damn self tragic. And I see there is a such thing as the tragic dark skinned negro too.

None of that is to say folks don't face discrimination or stigmas because of what and who they are.. but you got two choices..either let that sht eat you alive or live. Personally, I know not everyone is going to like and or value me. I choose to live.
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Old 05-27-2011, 09:41 PM   #98
 
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I normally don't even click these threads because fire is usually coming off of my screen the moment I get to reading, but I have to say +1 to all that CocoT and NEA have said so far. As well as the point about racists not needing any excuse or reason to be racist.

Also, why do black people have to continue to act like all is well in the world with us and put on this mask for everyone else when we KNOW good and damn well that it is not. I watch every other group of people (whether an ethnicity, nationality, or "special interest" group) fight for their issues - drawing inspiration from our more active past as a people - and bring attention to their issues not just to their own community, but to the nation, and even to the world for some. They bring about change to their situation while we sit around and talk about how we shouldn't discuss our own personal matters.

I see things like this: if 150+ years after slavery, we are still struggling with issues that we know are a direct result of slavery, then we should be sounding a VERY loud alarm. However, as I study from then to now, with each new generation, the blanketing sentiment grows more and more apathetic. There's many reasons for this, but not enough room or time for that now. The main thing is, we should never be quiet about our issues until they are resolved.

The first step to freedom is being aware that you are not free in the first place. As such, that means you have to be aware. If all of us are not aware of what's going on in our community, then how can we have intelligent dialog? And if we don't have intelligent dialog, how can we go about talking about solutions and taking steps to implement solutions to make our situation better? Just sayin'.
This is so sad and so very true. My sister and I were discussing this a little while ago. One of her teachers called us the "do-nothing" generation because compared to the social activism a few decades ago, we aren't as proactive. She talked about how our generation has been nurtured/sheltered and talked about how our parents and other guardians (some not all) of our (my) generation may have grown complacent, dispirited and or overprotective in a lot of ways from acknowledging societal problems. I don't quite remember everything she said her professor was talking to her about, but there is a lot of truth in what she's saying (even though I think she was kind of harsh.lol. But hey, the truth hurts ).
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Old 05-27-2011, 09:44 PM   #99
 
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There is no easy solution.

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Instead of being concerned about dirty laundry being aired, how about washing the clothes? Interesting concept, eh? That starts with dialogue. I'm for shouting it from the rooftops. If it embarrasses you, then use that shame to condemn the ignorance, not silence the messenger because you're tired of hearing about it. Well I'm tired of the sickness.
I will admit through my 43 years of life that I have from time to time thought this topic and others like it are redundant. However, I know passive indifference clearly is not the answer.

Does this problem have a definitive answer? I am not so sure. I do know that enlightenment is a powerful tool and I will continue to use it until there is a resolve.
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Old 05-27-2011, 09:45 PM   #100
 
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I think everyone should speak their truth and that speaking your truth can help you purge your demons. For that alone I think a documentary like this has value and doesn't necessarily have to have answers. Also, an entire movie of black women crying over their childhoods may prevent one parent from making an ignorant comment to their child in the future. And that is worth it to me.

Colorism is truly sad because it hurts so many people so deeply. My aunt is very beautiful and very light skinned. Many would think that she would love how she looks, and yet she confessed to me that she hates her complexion and hates looking at her pale skin everyday. It made me sad that she can't love herself fully because of what she has been taught is beautiful. Truly we need to be able to look in the mirror and love what we see, not matter the complexion we have. Black is beautiful in all the colors of our rainbow.
True...and like I always say, "Everything is not for everybody". So, just because it's not for you (not you, anybody), doesn't mean it's worthless. It means it's not for you...that's all. Nothing more, nothing less. Keep movin'.

If folks don't wanna watch the documentary, by all means, take full advantage of your right to choose not to watch it. But don't be so quick to judge what it is OR isn't...not yet.

There's a reason why we're still dealing with this, and it ain't because folks won't leave us alone about it. It's because we refuse to deal with it. Sometimes things keep coming up as a sign for you to handle it, not wish it away.

Yes, I do believe there comes a point when folks must deal with the cards they've been dealt: You can't change your skin color, hair texture/type, who your parents are, etc. You have to choose to get well, even when society refuses to help you heal. That's so true. You're dark. You're light. Your mama didn't love you. Your daddy left you. Now, what is your plan to make it in this world?

BUT, that does not mean that we aren't accountable for how we think...and how our thoughts shape our behavior towards other people. We have a responsibility to address what is wrong with our communities, starting with raising healthy children, who will grow into healthy adults.
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