These Indie Product Companies....

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I like paypal for the most part. I feel safer using it than just entering my card number all the time. And the few times I've needed to file a dispute, it went in my favor. It was for hair products too.
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Haven't read every post on this thread so this may have already been mentioned, but what i do when i get something different from what i ordered and seller is not being willing to own up to and fix the mistake, is open a paypal dispute, they have 'item not as expected' option. Worked with my recent ebay purchase. What i got was different in every way from what i ordered, and when i emailed seller i was getting no response at all. When they did respond finally, after a few of my emails, they acted like they don't believe me and wanted me to take pictures and show all kinds of proof. Like it was sooo impossible for them to make a mistake lol.

So i said no, i don't have a camera atm and not going into any trouble and expense to get one just to take pics for you. And then i opened a dispute. got money back instantly. Seller still didn't acknowledge that they made a mistake tho. But at least i wasn't at a loss.

ps, assuming paypal was used. but it prolly works with cc purchases too. dunno, do cc companies help with such issues the way paypal does? like order wasn't received or different from what expected?
Originally Posted by lapluie
Paypal isn't helpful worth a damn when it comes to hair products UNLESS you didn't get the product at all. I 've been thru this with them and they ALWAYS ruled in favor of the vendor. I think the best way is to leave a neutral or negative etsy feedback or post here so the vendor feels the impact where it counts, in their pocketbook. I did that with a vendor and when she read my post, she apologized and refunded my money AFTER paypal ruled against me. We've been cool every since.
Originally Posted by sassywillow
From what I've read on on these boards, Paypal seems scary as hell. I don't see how anyone uses it. Sketch. Lol
Originally Posted by itsKelCeeEee
I've used paypal with no issues. The one product I received that was spoiled I got a refund when paypal ruled in my favor. The dispute process worked for me.


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Haven't read every post on this thread so this may have already been mentioned, but what i do when i get something different from what i ordered and seller is not being willing to own up to and fix the mistake, is open a paypal dispute, they have 'item not as expected' option. Worked with my recent ebay purchase. What i got was different in every way from what i ordered, and when i emailed seller i was getting no response at all. When they did respond finally, after a few of my emails, they acted like they don't believe me and wanted me to take pictures and show all kinds of proof. Like it was sooo impossible for them to make a mistake lol.

So i said no, i don't have a camera atm and not going into any trouble and expense to get one just to take pics for you. And then i opened a dispute. got money back instantly. Seller still didn't acknowledge that they made a mistake tho. But at least i wasn't at a loss.

ps, assuming paypal was used. but it prolly works with cc purchases too. dunno, do cc companies help with such issues the way paypal does? like order wasn't received or different from what expected?
Originally Posted by lapluie
Paypal isn't helpful worth a damn when it comes to hair products UNLESS you didn't get the product at all. I 've been thru this with them and they ALWAYS ruled in favor of the vendor. I think the best way is to leave a neutral or negative etsy feedback or post here so the vendor feels the impact where it counts, in their pocketbook. I did that with a vendor and when she read my post, she apologized and refunded my money AFTER paypal ruled against me. We've been cool every since.
Originally Posted by sassywillow
From what I've read on on these boards, Paypal seems scary as hell. I don't see how anyone uses it. Sketch. Lol
Originally Posted by itsKelCeeEee
PayPal tried to cheat me out of over $300 once when I sold something to someone, then they said they did not receive it - I contacted them several times to make sure they got it, and they NEVER responded to me. I called their post office, got the mail carrier to write a notarized letter saying that the item was delivered, etc etc...I had receipts, letters, email chains, THEN I found out that this person had taken advantage of the PayPal dispute system BEFORE, and I even sent PayPal the information about the buyer...they still said that I needed to pay them back because that day I had been in a hurry and did not get a delivery confirmation (but ummmm isn't a notarized letter enough?!). So I basically told the they could go eff themselves silly and sideways and they could take me to court.

I don't eff with PayPal. When I have to use it, I enter my info in as a guest. I don't trust my information saved on that site.
BC'ed: 26 Dec 09
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Paypal isn't helpful worth a damn when it comes to hair products UNLESS you didn't get the product at all. I 've been thru this with them and they ALWAYS ruled in favor of the vendor. I think the best way is to leave a neutral or negative etsy feedback or post here so the vendor feels the impact where it counts, in their pocketbook. I did that with a vendor and when she read my post, she apologized and refunded my money AFTER paypal ruled against me. We've been cool every since.
Originally Posted by sassywillow
From what I've read on on these boards, Paypal seems scary as hell. I don't see how anyone uses it. Sketch. Lol
Originally Posted by itsKelCeeEee
PayPal tried to cheat me out of over $300 once when I sold something to someone, then they said they did not receive it - I contacted them several times to make sure they got it, and they NEVER responded to me. I called their post office, got the mail carrier to write a notarized letter saying that the item was delivered, etc etc...I had receipts, letters, email chains, THEN I found out that this person had taken advantage of the PayPal dispute system BEFORE, and I even sent PayPal the information about the buyer...they still said that I needed to pay them back because that day I had been in a hurry and did not get a delivery confirmation (but ummmm isn't a notarized letter enough?!). So I basically told the they could go eff themselves silly and sideways and they could take me to court.

I don't eff with PayPal. When I have to use it, I enter my info in as a guest. I don't trust my information saved on that site.
Originally Posted by EllyEllyOxenFree
Ooh! No bueno. Sorry to hear they put you through that. Damn.


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From what I've read on on these boards, Paypal seems scary as hell. I don't see how anyone uses it. Sketch. Lol
Originally Posted by itsKelCeeEee
PayPal tried to cheat me out of over $300 once when I sold something to someone, then they said they did not receive it - I contacted them several times to make sure they got it, and they NEVER responded to me. I called their post office, got the mail carrier to write a notarized letter saying that the item was delivered, etc etc...I had receipts, letters, email chains, THEN I found out that this person had taken advantage of the PayPal dispute system BEFORE, and I even sent PayPal the information about the buyer...they still said that I needed to pay them back because that day I had been in a hurry and did not get a delivery confirmation (but ummmm isn't a notarized letter enough?!). So I basically told the they could go eff themselves silly and sideways and they could take me to court.

I don't eff with PayPal. When I have to use it, I enter my info in as a guest. I don't trust my information saved on that site.
Originally Posted by EllyEllyOxenFree
Ooh! No bueno. Sorry to hear they put you through that. Damn.


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Originally Posted by Naturalista
Yes girl...I was about to cut them. I was in college too so that means less money and less tact, lol! I think it's still unresolved actually...I called my bank and told them to deny Paypal if they tried to take even a penny out of my account.
BC'ed: 26 Dec 09
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Grand Duchess Fierce Freckles, Mistress of the Mighty Snap and Doyenne of the Potent Products Pavane in the Order of the Curly Crusaders
I should clarify that I prefer paypal for transactions. BUT I think that in my experience when it comes to disputes they sometimes put the aggrieved party thru hell. Maybe it's because people have abused the dispute system. IDK
Ah...to be a well pampered pootiecat. I can sleep on my owner's lap. Roll over on my back when I want my stomach rubbed. Purr with delight. Suddenly jump off and walk away for no reason. Not respond when I am called. Throw my leg up and lick with intense abandon. Sleep 85% of the time. Hang my head off the couch and view the world upside down.
Haven't read every post on this thread so this may have already been mentioned, but what i do when i get something different from what i ordered and seller is not being willing to own up to and fix the mistake, is open a paypal dispute, they have 'item not as expected' option. Worked with my recent ebay purchase. What i got was different in every way from what i ordered, and when i emailed seller i was getting no response at all. When they did respond finally, after a few of my emails, they acted like they don't believe me and wanted me to take pictures and show all kinds of proof. Like it was sooo impossible for them to make a mistake lol.

So i said no, i don't have a camera atm and not going into any trouble and expense to get one just to take pics for you. And then i opened a dispute. got money back instantly. Seller still didn't acknowledge that they made a mistake tho. But at least i wasn't at a loss.

ps, assuming paypal was used. but it prolly works with cc purchases too. dunno, do cc companies help with such issues the way paypal does? like order wasn't received or different from what expected?
Originally Posted by lapluie
Paypal isn't helpful worth a damn when it comes to hair products UNLESS you didn't get the product at all. I 've been thru this with them and they ALWAYS ruled in favor of the vendor. I think the best way is to leave a neutral or negative etsy feedback or post here so the vendor feels the impact where it counts, in their pocketbook. I did that with a vendor and when she read my post, she apologized and refunded my money AFTER paypal ruled against me. We've been cool every since.
Originally Posted by sassywillow
This has been my experience as well. I was lucky in one case to get my money back but that was only because the vendor felt complled to do so. I think I'm going to go back to using my credit card I'm so mad.
4a/b Texlaxed hair w/ highlights. Medium texture & high porosity.

HG's: CJ Daily Fix, Bobeam Cheris Hibiscus shampoo bar, KC Spiral Spritz, Knot Today, CJ Rehab, KBB LL Hair Mask, Cassia, KCCC, oil blend of Avocado, Camellia, Jojoba, & Meadowfoam oils

SL APL BSL MBL
I haven't had many issues when ordering online but the 2 that I did....I received the items and they were totally ruined. The company told me no refunds and to "just take it to the cleaners or use Shout to get the spots out." I contacted Paypal and informed them of my dispute and after providing the email from the company Paypal ruled in my favor and refunded the full amount. The second time Paypal ruled against me and I filed a dispute against Paypal with American Express and Paypal immediately reopened my dispute which resulted in the vendor refunding my money.

vIa mY cURl TaLk ApP
Originally Posted by Chicago Kinks
I was wondering if I could've did that with my last dispute but I didn't think of it until way later.
4a/b Texlaxed hair w/ highlights. Medium texture & high porosity.

HG's: CJ Daily Fix, Bobeam Cheris Hibiscus shampoo bar, KC Spiral Spritz, Knot Today, CJ Rehab, KBB LL Hair Mask, Cassia, KCCC, oil blend of Avocado, Camellia, Jojoba, & Meadowfoam oils

SL APL BSL MBL
Makes me want to stick to larger companies and websites where I wouldn't have to deal with that BS as generic as they may be in terms of new and innovative products. Thankfully there are so many other companies that do right.
Originally Posted by greenandchic
Yep...I buy for fun. I have enough products to handle the haircare needs of a small, third-world country. I do not need to buy anything. So, I won't...for now.

As far as Etsy goes for hair products? It's Njoi Creations, and that's pretty much it.
Originally Posted by NEA
I'm sorry you had to go through this, Nea. I use to buy for fun but after 2 disputes in a year it's no longer fun. I can't take a chance on my buying products that are spolied before they get to me. And the stress of having to spend an hour phrasing my email in a way that won't upset the vendor is for the birds.

I have my staples that I can get on the ground or through trustworthy websites. If something really unique from a trustworthy vendor comes out maybe I'll consider buying it.
4a/b Texlaxed hair w/ highlights. Medium texture & high porosity.

HG's: CJ Daily Fix, Bobeam Cheris Hibiscus shampoo bar, KC Spiral Spritz, Knot Today, CJ Rehab, KBB LL Hair Mask, Cassia, KCCC, oil blend of Avocado, Camellia, Jojoba, & Meadowfoam oils

SL APL BSL MBL
I haven't had many issues when ordering online but the 2 that I did....I received the items and they were totally ruined. The company told me no refunds and to "just take it to the cleaners or use Shout to get the spots out." I contacted Paypal and informed them of my dispute and after providing the email from the company Paypal ruled in my favor and refunded the full amount. The second time Paypal ruled against me and I filed a dispute against Paypal with American Express and Paypal immediately reopened my dispute which resulted in the vendor refunding my money.

vIa mY cURl TaLk ApP
Originally Posted by Chicago Kinks
I was wondering if I could've did that with my last dispute but I didn't think of it until way later.
Originally Posted by afrosheenqueen
You sure can go through your credit card company if Paypal rules against you and the vendor was definitely in the wrong.

vIa mY cURl TaLk ApP
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Sorry to hear about this NEA and I feel everyone's frustrations on this matter. It's serious business as we are putting this stuff on our bodies. We should be paying attention to these things and not feel like villains when taking folks to task on
1) our bodies
2) our hard earned $ used to patronize a business.

Her response was garbage and if that product had caused something to happen to you, wouldn't hold in court. That being said, what they're doing is amoral, but these companies aren't regulated, so technically it's not illegal. Its times like these where I'm pro regulation. Not every Tom, Dick, n Keisha should be In business.

re: KBB, my bottles are a yr old and the ingredients correlated, but I knew the formulas changed. Karen denied this to my face when i went to the store, so I stopped buying the milk. The butter never had glycerin in it which is why its awesome during the winter, but i have the old packaging, so I can't comment on new.

It's not only about having things work well, the ish gotta be kosher all around. Period.

And +1 on working on narrowing down my staples more. This type of stuff has made me work on really identifying items that really work vs those that are OK. I can save my money from OK and go stellar.


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Originally Posted by Naturalista
to the bolded. I ABSOLUTELY agree. Knowing how to mix butters, oils, and herbs doesn't mean that you should be in business. Making hair products is a SERIOUS process that should be THOROUGHLY planned and CAREFULLY executed.

We have to keep spreading the word when situations like these arise. If these people truly want to be entrepreneurs, then they need to be able EVERYTHING that comes with that role.
No offense to anyone who buys off Etsy, but I would never buy hair products from that site. I've already had 3 incidents of products separating and drying out my hair. No refund, though I did get a replacement product and a coupon though. These were from small (non-etsy) vendors, so I stick to well known companies only now. I can't waste money knowing that someone may not know what an emulsifier is and end with a product that may mold or something. I only use Etsy to buy imported fabrics and purse making supplies in bulk. It takes forever to ship from overseas but it's cheaper than buying domestically.
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No offense to anyone who buys off Etsy, but I would never buy hair products from that site. I've already had 3 incidents of products separating and drying out my hair. No refund, though I did get a replacement product and a coupon though. These were from small (non-etsy) vendors, so I stick to well known companies only now. I can't waste money knowing that someone may not know what an emulsifier is and end with a product that may mold or something. I only use Etsy to buy imported fabrics and purse making supplies in bulk. It takes forever to ship from overseas but it's cheaper than buying domestically.
Originally Posted by moosegrl_86
I'm pretty much with you on this. I used to looove Etsy, but now I haven't purchased anything from that site in about a year probably. I usually buy from reputable online resellers (Sage, Curlmart, AveYou) or the company directly if I trust them. Otherwise I just purchase on the ground.
BC'ed: 26 Dec 09
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Grand Duchess Fierce Freckles, Mistress of the Mighty Snap and Doyenne of the Potent Products Pavane in the Order of the Curly Crusaders
No offense to anyone who buys off Etsy, but I would never buy hair products from that site. I've already had 3 incidents of products separating and drying out my hair. No refund, though I did get a replacement product and a coupon though. These were from small (non-etsy) vendors, so I stick to well known companies only now. I can't waste money knowing that someone may not know what an emulsifier is and end with a product that may mold or something. I only use Etsy to buy imported fabrics and purse making supplies in bulk. It takes forever to ship from overseas but it's cheaper than buying domestically.
Originally Posted by moosegrl_86
I'm pretty much with you on this. I used to looove Etsy, but now I haven't purchased anything from that site in about a year probably. I usually buy from reputable online resellers (Sage, Curlmart, AveYou) or the company directly if I trust them. Otherwise I just purchase on the ground.
Originally Posted by EllyEllyOxenFree
Christine Gant is the only etsy vendor I order from. Never had a problem.
Ah...to be a well pampered pootiecat. I can sleep on my owner's lap. Roll over on my back when I want my stomach rubbed. Purr with delight. Suddenly jump off and walk away for no reason. Not respond when I am called. Throw my leg up and lick with intense abandon. Sleep 85% of the time. Hang my head off the couch and view the world upside down.
Haven't read every post on this thread so this may have already been mentioned, but what i do when i get something different from what i ordered and seller is not being willing to own up to and fix the mistake, is open a paypal dispute, they have 'item not as expected' option. Worked with my recent ebay purchase. What i got was different in every way from what i ordered, and when i emailed seller i was getting no response at all. When they did respond finally, after a few of my emails, they acted like they don't believe me and wanted me to take pictures and show all kinds of proof. Like it was sooo impossible for them to make a mistake lol.

So i said no, i don't have a camera atm and not going into any trouble and expense to get one just to take pics for you. And then i opened a dispute. got money back instantly. Seller still didn't acknowledge that they made a mistake tho. But at least i wasn't at a loss.

ps, assuming paypal was used. but it prolly works with cc purchases too. dunno, do cc companies help with such issues the way paypal does? like order wasn't received or different from what expected?
Originally Posted by lapluie
Paypal isn't helpful worth a damn when it comes to hair products UNLESS you didn't get the product at all. I 've been thru this with them and they ALWAYS ruled in favor of the vendor. I think the best way is to leave a neutral or negative etsy feedback or post here so the vendor feels the impact where it counts, in their pocketbook. I did that with a vendor and when she read my post, she apologized and refunded my money AFTER paypal ruled against me. We've been cool every since.
Originally Posted by sassywillow
This has been my experience as well. I was lucky in one case to get my money back but that was only because the vendor felt complled to do so. I think I'm going to go back to using my credit card I'm so mad.
Originally Posted by afrosheenqueen
Mine too. PayPal is good for almost nothing. Unless they didn't ship it, you're screwed.
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Paypal isn't helpful worth a damn when it comes to hair products UNLESS you didn't get the product at all. I 've been thru this with them and they ALWAYS ruled in favor of the vendor. I think the best way is to leave a neutral or negative etsy feedback or post here so the vendor feels the impact where it counts, in their pocketbook. I did that with a vendor and when she read my post, she apologized and refunded my money AFTER paypal ruled against me. We've been cool every since.
Originally Posted by sassywillow
From what I've read on on these boards, Paypal seems scary as hell. I don't see how anyone uses it. Sketch. Lol
Originally Posted by itsKelCeeEee
PayPal tried to cheat me out of over $300 once when I sold something to someone, then they said they did not receive it - I contacted them several times to make sure they got it, and they NEVER responded to me. I called their post office, got the mail carrier to write a notarized letter saying that the item was delivered, etc etc...I had receipts, letters, email chains, THEN I found out that this person had taken advantage of the PayPal dispute system BEFORE, and I even sent PayPal the information about the buyer...they still said that I needed to pay them back because that day I had been in a hurry and did not get a delivery confirmation (but ummmm isn't a notarized letter enough?!). So I basically told the they could go eff themselves silly and sideways and they could take me to court.

I don't eff with PayPal. When I have to use it, I enter my info in as a guest. I don't trust my information saved on that site.
Originally Posted by EllyEllyOxenFree
Sweet baby Jesus that's scary. And just plan ol BS. Sorry that mess happened to you.

Big Chop: 11/25/09
Cottony/fluffy, medium/coarse, high density & porosity
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I would just return the stuff and ask for a refund. Really, she slipped up, got defensive and just bad business.
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Quote:
Hear that crash? It's me falling off the CG wagon.
I happened to google my company name today and came across this post. Let me say that I am amazed that you chose to take thing to the internet and bash my company instead of responding to my inquiries that we solve my mistake. As a business owner, I work hard to create recipes and I work hard at providing excellent customer service. I can't provide customer service IF the customer is not present in solving an issue with the business owner. I made a mistake, I admitted that to you. Now I admit that on this board.

I don't have an integrity issue, I made a mistake on the etsy listing. I don't make excuses for my mistake. I have pulled that listing and corrected the error. I have customers that enjoy my products and will tell you that I am not only some faceless person that sell products to them, I am approachable and DO have integrity. I don't appreciate that my company name is being slandered as if I didn't try to contact you on etsy through their problem resolution system, you refused.

Further, I wasn't trying to appease you with the larger container. I do that often with my customers.

If you want to contact me, I am open to discussing this further. I wish that I has seen this posting earlier.

I pray that you have been well.
Originally Posted by nassieshopellc
It's against forum rules for companies to post defending their practices and products. Thanks.
I let you know that it was a mistake, but you didn't let it slide, you posted here instead of resolving the issue with me. As a consumer, I would give the company every issue to resolve an issue. As you stated, you used the product, I would have preferred that you send it back, with me paying the postage, for a full refund but you used it.

I work to have my name stand for customer service and a company run with integrity. I guarantee if I challenged your name and what you work hard to build, you would be so called defensive too.
Originally Posted by nassieshopellc
You don't have a clue that you're actually making things WORSE, by trying to defend yourself.

First off, MY name never would have gotten "challenged" in the first place, not for what you got called out for. Know why? Because I would have been on top of my game, with a correct ingredient listing on Etsy. Plus, I understand that folks will put you on blast, when you don't do right...and even when you do. But, when you do right, you don't have to worry. Folks with sense, see and understand sense. People who just wanna ruin somebody's attempt to make a living don't get much attention.

You didn't send what I was led to believe I was ordering. It doesn't get any more simple than that.

I understand the importance of product labeling. You don't...which is ONE reason you're not ready to sell products.

Now, go back and read thru the thread and take note on how you should have handled the situation, from the VERY BEGINNING - after I sent you the first convo.

I posted ALL the correspondence between you and I, via Etsy convo. Sorry, but I don't see any mention of you offering to take back the product and refund my money. You clearly don't get it, so let me end my dialogue with you.

Final words to you:
In business, as in life in general, you don't always get a second chance to make things right. That's why you need to think, before you respond to criticism...think like a customer, not a defensive business person. You, and the many others like you, don't understand the difference.

This is naturallycurly.com. This is THEE natural hair community for product junkies. You don't wanna mess up HERE.
We buy a lot of products, AND we review products, and customer service.

Be careful how you handle customer service issues, in the future. The internet is a powerful tool, and it can be used to skyrocket your business, or send it crashing to the ground.
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Last edited by Ninjarette; 12-05-2011 at 11:47 AM.
It is against rules but folks can post this, why not respond here. I don't believe that anyone should be able to post comments online without being brought to the carpet to respond.

I only have my name, I take that very seriously.

No...my feedback didn't hurt anything. YOU hurt your business, with your response. I posted YOUR response...so what's the problem? If you were worried about less than positive feedback, you should have handled my concern in a more professional manner.

You ALWAYS make sure you list the correct product ingredients, when you're selling ANYTHING. That's common sense. It protects you, AND your customers. People have allergies, and/or people want particular products, that contain certain ingredients. If I'm expecting a product with Red Palm Oil, Illipe Butter, and Kokum Butter, that's what I expect to receive. Why is that so difficult? Common sense. NONE of those ingredients are in the product you sent me. So, I'm not supposed to say anything, because you sent me a larger jar than what I ordered? Really?

You don't send a product, with a TOTALLY different ingredient list, and then get an attitude when someone brings it to your attention. Why would you think that's acceptable?

You should have said,"I apologize that my Etsy listing doesn't show the correct ingredient listing. I need to update that info. The butter is really nice. Try it, and see if you like it. If you dont, I will be willing to correct the situation" The end.

If you had said that, I would have let it slide. But you figured because you sent me a larger size, I should be happy and be quiet. No. Your product IS good, but it's not what I ordered, ACCORDING to YOUR product description...AND I said your product was nice, in my feedback, because it is.

You need to tighten up, and stop being defensive. Take responsibility and correct the situation, so you won't have to worry about less than positive feedback.

I let you know that it was a mistake, but you didn't let it slide, you posted here instead of resolving the issue with me. As a consumer, I would give the company every issue to resolve an issue. As you stated, you used the product, I would have preferred that you send it back, with me paying the postage, for a full refund but you used it.

I work to have my name stand for customer service and a company run with integrity. I guarantee if I challenged your name and what you work hard to build, you would be so called defensive too.
Originally Posted by nassieshopellc
This isn't slander....you fully admit you were in the wrong.

vIa mY cURl TaLk ApP
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**sophisticated ignorance, I type my cuss words in cursive**

Current Rotation (always changing): Curl Junkie Curl Rehab as my Leave-In, Blended Beauty Happy Nappy Styles, Entwine Argan Oil, Bobeam Shampoo Bars, QB CTDG and QB AHTB, UFD Curly Magic, B.A.S.K Anything.


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