Does 4c really exist?? Or 4z

Like Tree2Likes

Actually, seeing your hair actually makes me believe that the "Z pattern" description shouldn't be used just to describe 4b/4c hair. You have a lot more definition than those of the 4b/4c hair type. Yet the "Z pattern" is only associated with those types of hair. It further proves that that description only causes more confusion in determining our hair type...
"You never find yourself until you face the truth."-- Pearl Bailey

I'm with u. Hair porosity & diameter (fine/med/course) gives me the most info for product choice.
I have alot more in common with a dense, high porosity, course haired person (regardless of race, color, etc) then I have with someone with type 4b etc.
lately I'm just sticking to the type 4 area in general.. If the product is recommended for all 4s or even some 4s i'm up 4 it..lol..I might jump into the 3 zone every now and then. everybody's hair is different.. u never know what u may need for it...if it makes my hair happy i'm sticking with it regardless of what hair type it should be best for.
"You never find yourself until you face the truth."-- Pearl Bailey

Nonie on LHCF gives some really good examples throughout the below link. I tend to agree w/her explanations regarding the zigzag thing. I think our hair coils or curls. I think we tend to get the zigzag with added manipulation. (I don't know if you'll be able to see the pics in the link but it has lots of great explanation)

What is the difference between 3c and 4a hair? - Long Hair Care Forum
Texture: Coarse?; Density: Med (?); Porosity(?? Med-high); Wave pattern: 4B coils

Poo:
Elucence MB
Deep Condish: GVP Conditioning Balm Moisturizer: Qhemets Amla Olive HC
Sealer: QB
Aethiopika Hydrate & Twist (I use this as a styler too)
Stylers: ORS Twist and Lock
(rarely use)





I have a quick question...my hair is really kinky and thick as well..i've been natural since january of last year but i've pretty much been wearing braids the entire time so i never have to deal with my hair..i've decided to start wearing it out, thing is, i don't know how to manage it. i honestly hate the way my hair shrinks up because it makes it tougher to manage and maintain...my question is..what can i do or use to eliminate shrinkage? i dont want to have to put heat on it regularly and i rather avoid doing it at all so i need some advice..BAD! i've been looking for answers but can't seem to find them.
I have a quick question...my hair is really kinky and thick as well..i've been natural since january of last year but i've pretty much been wearing braids the entire time so i never have to deal with my hair..i've decided to start wearing it out, thing is, i don't know how to manage it. i honestly hate the way my hair shrinks up because it makes it tougher to manage and maintain...my question is..what can i do or use to eliminate shrinkage? i dont want to have to put heat on it regularly and i rather avoid doing it at all so i need some advice..BAD! i've been looking for answers but can't seem to find them.
Originally Posted by Rock
Have you tried braid our twist outs?
APL BSL MBL WL HL TBL | porous, fine/medium strands, medium density
My Fotki!
Below: Typical PS bun
I have a quick question...my hair is really kinky and thick as well..i've been natural since january of last year but i've pretty much been wearing braids the entire time so i never have to deal with my hair..i've decided to start wearing it out, thing is, i don't know how to manage it. i honestly hate the way my hair shrinks up because it makes it tougher to manage and maintain...my question is..what can i do or use to eliminate shrinkage? i dont want to have to put heat on it regularly and i rather avoid doing it at all so i need some advice..BAD! i've been looking for answers but can't seem to find them.
Originally Posted by Rock
Band, braid or twist, or pineapple at night. Or even Bantu if you have all day to allow wet hair to dry!
My hair is in the 4s, low in porosity, high in density and coarse.

Love: QB - all of it, Bobeam - shampoo bars, Darcy's Botanicals - Pumpkin Seed Conditioner, Coconut Cupuacu Pomade, KBN - Shealoe Leave-in, Oyin - Juices & Berries, Kinky Curly - Knot Today, Ayurvedic treatments, my Denman and the cloud of kinky goodness on my head that I get to play with!
Is anyone else experiencing this? My hair is 4z (jokingly) because i break everything. combs, brushes, etc. It is so dry and it soaks up moisture like there is no tomorrow. I noticed that I can't do wash and gos and other styles like other naturals with looser curl patterns and that i had to go old school with my regimen (wash, conditioning, grease and water, comb, brush) just to see any type of hair growth and length retention. It seems that if my hair is not in a protective style, it immediately starts to shed but thrives only when braided or protected some sort of way where it's not loose. Are we doomed to always having to keep our hair braided or twisted? CAn we ever wear a fro without worrying about damages like those with a looser pattern can?
Is anyone else experiencing this? My hair is 4z (jokingly) because i break everything. combs, brushes, etc. It is so dry and it soaks up moisture like there is no tomorrow. I noticed that I can't do wash and gos and other styles like other naturals with looser curl patterns and that i had to go old school with my regimen (wash, conditioning, grease and water, comb, brush) just to see any type of hair growth and length retention. It seems that if my hair is not in a protective style, it immediately starts to shed but thrives only when braided or protected some sort of way where it's not loose. Are we doomed to always having to keep our hair braided or twisted? CAn we ever wear a fro without worrying about damages like those with a looser pattern can?
Originally Posted by kinkybush4life
The truth is we can't speak for everyone because no two heads are alike regardless if they have the same curl pattern. My hair is mostly 4. While I could do wash and gos when it was short, my shrinkage is so much that I will get massive tangles if I let my hair dry unstretched now that it's long. However, there are many 4s on here who can wash and go with no problems. Also it could be your hair sheds just as much when braided but you don't notice it. I'm a heavy shedder which is one reason I don't like to leave my hair in braids or twists for a long time because if I don't get shed hair out I get bad knots. A lot of length retention is how well you treat your ends. How are you taking care of your ends when your hair is loose?
I hate that you think of yourself as doomed. I could feel bad that I can't do a wash and go but choose to be happy that I can rock braidouts that look so good I have strangers telling me they want my hair.
seamonster likes this.
A small curl isn't necessarily a kink...kinky hair crimps (yes it's a word! ) and torsions. This hair will be kinda z-shaped, but it's very hard for this hair to clump (because all the strands crimp and torsion in different directions, unlike a curl) so it will frizz more often than not and one doesn't see the Z. It can still be curly though, but it's hard to clump and tangles on itself more often than not.

My favorie 4c YouTubers:
CandidAnn - What 4C hair looks like up close
Chery818 - Finger Detangle Method on 4C Hair
UrbanBushBabes - Detangle Prep For My 4c Strands
Joulzy - Realistic Expectations for 4C Hair

Difference between kinky, kinky-curly and curly

I have been hearing of the 4c hair type as well as 4z, but i was wondering is there really one? Did Andre Walker create these hair types after naturally curly posted their breakdown of the hair types? And I have seen plenty of variations of other hair types because no one's hair is the same.. Is it possible that what we are classifying as 4c,4z,etc is really a form of 4b hair?
Originally Posted by MzKye
Like the other posters have stated, '4z' is just an expression to cover the broad range of textures within type 4 coily hair... 4c is the coiliest (think Lenny Kravitz in his hair-hey-day)... There are some people that fall into this category, just as there are now additional categories to cover non-curly dense hair types, i.e., type-5-cottony (think srthur ash or althea gibson back in the day)
or type-6-spongy (think don king or ester rolle)...
Lots of new sites or books are referencing their own systems as well as Andre Walker's ... There is also the Fia, Goddess Hair and the LOIS system as well.

hope this helps


best,
So_Jane
I have been hearing of the 4c hair type as well as 4z, but i was wondering is there really one? Did Andre Walker create these hair types after naturally curly posted their breakdown of the hair types? And I have seen plenty of variations of other hair types because no one's hair is the same.. Is it possible that what we are classifying as 4c,4z,etc is really a form of 4b hair?
Originally Posted by MzKye
Like the other posters have stated, '4z' is just an expression to cover the broad range of textures within type 4 coily hair... 4c is the coiliest (think Lenny Kravitz in his hair-hey-day)... There are some people that fall into this category, just as there are now additional categories to cover non-curly dense hair types, i.e., type-5-cottony (think srthur ash or althea gibson back in the day)
or type-6-spongy (think don king or ester rolle)...
Lots of new sites or books are referencing their own systems as well as Andre Walker's ... There is also the Fia, Goddess Hair and the LOIS system as well.

hope this helps


best,
So_Jane
Originally Posted by So_Jane
I think you are combining/confusing typing systems. NC uses the Andre Walker system and I assure you there are no 5 or 6. Now Mizani's system I believe goes up to 8 and I think maybe dark and lovely came out with a system but I'm not sure because I'm not really into all that. Actually when AW developed his system it didn't have a 4c. and before the consolidating NC didn't have a section for 4c posters. there has been debate on here about 4c. Some people recognize it as a type, some people don't but that's another story.

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