3D Curl Pattern - The missing Link?

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Gif aside, I have a serious question. Why are people so concerned with fitting into boxes? We all know that no two heads of hair are the same. People have different perceptions and perspectives about how their own hair should look and feel. Not all products that are targeted towards my hair texture will work for me, and the same goes for a lot of people. Why then are we trying so hard to fit into a box? Why can't people just accept their hair for what it is and keep it moving?

What does it really do at the end of the day? I'm really trying to understand this because I, a person who has never been infatuated with the hair typing system, am sincerely trying to make sense of this incessant need that people seem to have to categorize their hair. It's already bad enough that we live in a society that perpetuates racial categorization as something legit (when it's not). But now people are doing it with hair. But to keep it strictly to hair, why is defining one's curl pattern so evocative? Why police other people's curl patterns?
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds

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Shawny, per naturally curly the difference between 3c and 4a is curl size. 3c being straw size and 4a being crochet needle size. I agree that curl size does not determine which products work for ones hair. I have 3c sized curls from my crown to my nape and 4a sized curls around my hair line. I don't use one product recommended for 3c on my crown and one recommended for 4a sized curls around my hair line. All of my hair regardless of curl size is thin, low porosity, and densely packed. The products I buy cater to those features of my hair. Not my curl size.
Originally Posted by NaturallyCJ
This is why I always had a problem with this system. As someone that crochets and uses straws, I have come to the conclusion that 3C and 4a are one and the same. My "j" crochet hook is the same size as a regular drinking straw. My "m" crochet hook is probably the same size as a jumbo straw (sorry, don't have a jumbo straw to compare). NC came up with 3C to appease individuals that felt the same way the OP does.

Now, if someone can tell me what size crochet hook 4a is and it is a different size than size "j", maybe I will be convinced that there is 3C & 4A. Until then, 3C & 4A are one and the same.
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___________________________
BC 11/23/2008
Low porosity, Fine/Medium Texture, S-Curls

Co-wash: VO5 Tea Therapy
Rinse Out: Garnier Sleek 'n Shine (subject to change)
Styler: Long Aid Curl Activator

Dislikes: Proteins (except occasional Silk protein), Cones, Oils

Last edited by teejay; 10-06-2011 at 11:58 AM. Reason: add word


Gif aside, I have a serious question. Why are people so concerned with fitting into boxes? We all know that no two heads of hair are the same. People have different perceptions and perspectives about how their own hair should look and feel. Not all products that are targeted towards my hair texture will work for me, and the same goes for a lot of people. Why then are we trying so hard to fit into a box? Why can't people just accept their hair for what it is and keep it moving?

What does it really do at the end of the day? I'm really trying to understand this because I, a person who has never been infatuated with the hair typing system, am sincerely trying to make sense of this incessant need that people seem to have to categorize their hair. It's already bad enough that we live in a society that perpetuates racial categorization as something legit (when it's not). But now people are doing it with hair. But to keep it strictly to hair, why is defining one's curl pattern so evocative? Why police other people's curl patterns?
Originally Posted by CocoT
Exactly. This reminds me of the Naptural85 "wash n go" video a couple of weeks ago. People were going on and on about how it is not really a wash n go, but a twist out. She then had to post a reply on a blog basically saying who gives a f*ck what it is called... ok, we know she is way too nice to say it like that, but you get my point. Why did it matter to the people what it was called? Either the technique works for you or not.
NoodleNaps likes this.
Shawny, per naturally curly the difference between 3c and 4a is curl size. 3c being straw size and 4a being crochet needle size. I agree that curl size does not determine which products work for ones hair. I have 3c sized curls from my crown to my nape and 4a sized curls around my hair line. I don't use one product recommended for 3c on my crown and one recommended for 4a sized curls around my hair line. All of my hair regardless of curl size is thin, low porosity, and densely packed. The products I buy cater to those features of my hair. Not my curl size.
Originally Posted by NaturallyCJ
This is why I always had a problem with this system. As someone that crochets and uses straws, I have come to the conclusion that 3C and 4a are one and the same. My "j" crochet hook is the same size as a regular drinking straw. My "m" crochet hook is probably the same size as a jumbo straw (sorry, don't have a jumbo straw to compare). NC came up with 3C to appease individuals that felt the same way the OP does.

Now, if someone can tell me what size crochet hook 4a is and it is a different size than size "j", maybe I will be convinced that there is 3C & 4A. Until then, 3C & 4A are one and the same.
Originally Posted by teejay
You owe me a casket...
Lol. Just trying to make "light" of the topic.
___________________________
BC 11/23/2008
Low porosity, Fine/Medium Texture, S-Curls

Co-wash: VO5 Tea Therapy
Rinse Out: Garnier Sleek 'n Shine (subject to change)
Styler: Long Aid Curl Activator

Dislikes: Proteins (except occasional Silk protein), Cones, Oils


Gif aside, I have a serious question. Why are people so concerned with fitting into boxes? We all know that no two heads of hair are the same. People have different perceptions and perspectives about how their own hair should look and feel. Not all products that are targeted towards my hair texture will work for me, and the same goes for a lot of people. Why then are we trying so hard to fit into a box? Why can't people just accept their hair for what it is and keep it moving?

What does it really do at the end of the day? I'm really trying to understand this because I, a person who has never been infatuated with the hair typing system, am sincerely trying to make sense of this incessant need that people seem to have to categorize their hair. It's already bad enough that we live in a society that perpetuates racial categorization as something legit (when it's not). But now people are doing it with hair. But to keep it strictly to hair, why is defining one's curl pattern so evocative? Why police other people's curl patterns?
Originally Posted by CocoT
Very well said. I'd like to know too!

On my EVO
Shawny, per naturally curly the difference between 3c and 4a is curl size. 3c being straw size and 4a being crochet needle size. I agree that curl size does not determine which products work for ones hair. I have 3c sized curls from my crown to my nape and 4a sized curls around my hair line. I don't use one product recommended for 3c on my crown and one recommended for 4a sized curls around my hair line. All of my hair regardless of curl size is thin, low porosity, and densely packed. The products I buy cater to those features of my hair. Not my curl size.
Originally Posted by NaturallyCJ
This is why I always had a problem with this system. As someone that crochets and uses straws, I have come to the conclusion that 3C and 4a are one and the same. My "j" crochet hook is the same size as a regular drinking straw. My "m" crochet hook is probably the same size as a jumbo straw (sorry, don't have a jumbo straw to compare). NC came up with 3C to appease individuals that felt the same way the OP does.

Now, if someone can tell me what size crochet hook 4a is and it is a different size than size "j", maybe I will be convinced that there is 3C & 4A. Until then, 3C & 4A are one and the same.
Originally Posted by teejay
Well, I was thinking they meant the size of the actual needle. I don't crochet but my MIL does and to me the metal part of her hook thing looks smaller than a straw. More like the size of a coffee stirrer instead of an actual drinking straw, but that's just my opinion. I didn't write the rules on it. I think the sizes are different but it means nothing to me in terms of hair care.
“Mama says pretty comes in all different sizes. And my size… is cute!” -Honey Boo Boo
I stopped using hair typing systems because they're vague for a lot of people and a lot of people can fall through the cracks because their curl pattern doesn't exactly fit the pattern described for all of the types. Curl pattern means jack when it comes to product selection. What's more important is porosity (how your hair holds moisture) density (how many strands on on your head) and texture (how fine or thick your strands are). I now describe my hair as tightly curly or highly textured, period. Personally, I give a side eye to people who want a 3d category because it usually stems from them wanting a different kind of hair then they really have and it perpetuates the "good hair/bad hair" mentality.
Originally Posted by LadyV69

This in a nutshell.
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Shawny, per naturally curly the difference between 3c and 4a is curl size. 3c being straw size and 4a being crochet needle size. I agree that curl size does not determine which products work for ones hair. I have 3c sized curls from my crown to my nape and 4a sized curls around my hair line. I don't use one product recommended for 3c on my crown and one recommended for 4a sized curls around my hair line. All of my hair regardless of curl size is thin, low porosity, and densely packed. The products I buy cater to those features of my hair. Not my curl size.
Originally Posted by NaturallyCJ
This is why I always had a problem with this system. As someone that crochets and uses straws, I have come to the conclusion that 3C and 4a are one and the same. My "j" crochet hook is the same size as a regular drinking straw. My "m" crochet hook is probably the same size as a jumbo straw (sorry, don't have a jumbo straw to compare). NC came up with 3C to appease individuals that felt the same way the OP does.

Now, if someone can tell me what size crochet hook 4a is and it is a different size than size "j", maybe I will be convinced that there is 3C & 4A. Until then, 3C & 4A are one and the same.
Originally Posted by teejay
Well, I was thinking they meant the size of the actual needle. I don't crochet but my MIL does and to me the metal part of her hook thing looks smaller than a straw. More like the size of a coffee stirrer instead of an actual drinking straw, but that's just my opinion. I didn't write the rules on it. I think the sizes are different but it means nothing to me in terms of hair care.
Originally Posted by NaturallyCJ
Crochet hooks or needles come in various sizes. Ranging from 1.00 mm to 10.00 mm. I have one the size of a coffee stir. Forgive me. I am trying to point out how silly this typing system is.
greenandchic likes this.
___________________________
BC 11/23/2008
Low porosity, Fine/Medium Texture, S-Curls

Co-wash: VO5 Tea Therapy
Rinse Out: Garnier Sleek 'n Shine (subject to change)
Styler: Long Aid Curl Activator

Dislikes: Proteins (except occasional Silk protein), Cones, Oils
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 143
LOL @ this thread. SMH.

Have some pride Ladies.
This is getting interesting...

Thinking that you can determine what products will work on your hair, based on your "curl size" is ridiculous.

What does "curl size" have to do with what products you can/can't use?

IF you've (anybody) been "helped" by hair typing, it's because you've made the choice to give it more importance than it should have, and/or you've never run into a situation where the "rules" don't apply.

As I've said, and as someone else has said in this thread, WAY BEFORE Andre Walker, folks were natural...and did quite well...long, healthy, strong hair.I NEVER knew about hair typing, till I joined the hair boards, a few years AFTER I went natural.

Hair typing hasn't helped me one bit, and I'm not the only one. So, if somebody chooses to "need" a system that describes curl size, when determining what products to use, that's on them. Carry on. Do you. But it's not necessary to know your hair type to have great hair. That's the bottom line.

I don't care what somebody calls their hair. But this mysterious "3D" doesn't look...mysterious.
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Gif aside, I have a serious question. Why are people so concerned with fitting into boxes? We all know that no two heads of hair are the same. People have different perceptions and perspectives about how their own hair should look and feel. Not all products that are targeted towards my hair texture will work for me, and the same goes for a lot of people. Why then are we trying so hard to fit into a box? Why can't people just accept their hair for what it is and keep it moving?

What does it really do at the end of the day? I'm really trying to understand this because I, a person who has never been infatuated with the hair typing system, am sincerely trying to make sense of this incessant need that people seem to have to categorize their hair. It's already bad enough that we live in a society that perpetuates racial categorization as something legit (when it's not). But now people are doing it with hair. But to keep it strictly to hair, why is defining one's curl pattern so evocative? Why police other people's curl patterns?
Originally Posted by CocoT
I like it because now I can google and youtube pictures and videos of hair that looks like mine for style ideas, techniques and products and I can better filter the heads of hair that look and act line mine vs. the ones that look nothing like mine and don't have the same end results as mine would. It has made a WORLD of difference in my hair too.
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 143
This is getting interesting...

Thinking that you can determine what products will work on your hair, based on your "curl size" is ridiculous.

What does "curl size" have to do with what products you can/can't use?

IF you've (anybody) been "helped" by hair typing, it's because you've made the choice to give it more importance than it should have, and/or you've never run into a situation where the "rules" don't apply.

As I've said, and as someone else has said in this thread, WAY BEFORE Andre Walker, folks were natural...and did quite well...long, healthy, strong hair.I NEVER knew about hair typing, till I joined the hair boards, a few years AFTER I went natural.

Hair typing hasn't helped me one bit, and I'm not the only one. So, if somebody chooses to "need" a system that describes curl size, when determining what products to use, that's on them. Carry on. Do you. But it's not necessary to know your hair type to have great hair. That's the bottom line.

I don't care what somebody calls their hair. But this mysterious "3D" doesn't look...mysterious.
Originally Posted by Ninjarette
Utilizing his system has worked wonders on my hair by allowing me to research based on my type of hair. My curls are bouncy, shiny, healthy, growing fast and 100% frizz free. That was a mere fantasy over a year ago. May not work for you but you can't say it doesn't work for others and you also can't say that acknowledging that people have different types of hair even within their respective races isn't beneficial.

I don't care how andre feels about black hair if he has self hate problems that's his problem not anyone else's. But, putting identifying lables on different hair types imo has been helpful. Sure some people may fall in between or have more then one texture on their head, if you do then you do, a 3c/4a mix.

If the system isn't helpful to some then don't use it however the insinuation by some that there are not different hair types is simply comical. People have different kinds of hair and people do fall into groups with others who have hair that is very similiar to theirs.

There is a woman in here with thick course 4 type hair claiming if she moisterizes it enough it will look like 3c hair and that there is no difference between these two types of hair. That simply sounds and looks rediculous to me.
Originally Posted by curlylaru
I do. If someone claims to be the definitive expert on hair care; to the point of inventing a system that so many curly/kinky haired women now use, I would want that person to respect our hair too - not see it as a problem to fix. That's one reason why the 1234/abc system feels nothing more than a modern brown paper bag test. I know he probably didn't mean it to be, but that's how it comes across.

I used it for years until I realized that its pointless. I use Oyin, Curl Junkie, Koils by Nature, Kinky-Curly, Shea Moisture, Suave, Garnier Fructis, Trader Joe's, Aussie, Aubrey Organics, Claudie's..., Ayurvedic herbs, and so on. All of these products can be or have been used by women of all hair types from 1 to 4b.
Originally Posted by greenandchic
No it's not like the paper bag test. Texture and type of hair is a big factor in how you need to take care of it and what type of hair styles will work on your hair. There is a purpose for a hair stylist making a distinct difference between different kinds of hair. I mean come on.

Apparently there is a group of people who are ashamed of their hair and as a result do not want the differences in hair textures acknowledged. That's all I can gather from this.
Originally Posted by curlylaru
Yes, there are different types of hair. Absolutely. And yes, its a big factor in determining what products to use. The differences are wether your hair is fine, med, coarse, hi or low porosity, etc. Your HAIR PROPERTIES are the difference. Thats what makes the different hair types. 3b, 3c, 4a, those are just descriptions of curl types, NOT hair type. You seem to be getting the two (curl type & hair type) confused.

Sent from my PG06100 using CurlTalk App
Jo Somebody likes this.
This went south pretty quickly .

Call your hair whatever you want, just don't look at peoples hair from avatars and try to lecture them on their hair properties .

Whether or not you continue to spout how great your 3c/3d4k hair is, to people IRL that is jargon .

I care for my hair based on how it reacts to products and techniques and I would advise any newbie to do same .

I do. If someone claims to be the definitive expert on hair care; to the point of inventing a system that so many curly/kinky haired women now use, I would want that person to respect our hair too - not see it as a problem to fix. That's one reason why the 1234/abc system feels nothing more than a modern brown paper bag test. I know he probably didn't mean it to be, but that's how it comes across.

I used it for years until I realized that its pointless. I use Oyin, Curl Junkie, Koils by Nature, Kinky-Curly, Shea Moisture, Suave, Garnier Fructis, Trader Joe's, Aussie, Aubrey Organics, Claudie's..., Ayurvedic herbs, and so on. All of these products can be or have been used by women of all hair types from 1 to 4b.
Originally Posted by greenandchic
No it's not like the paper bag test. Texture and type of hair is a big factor in how you need to take care of it and what type of hair styles will work on your hair. There is a purpose for a hair stylist making a distinct difference between different kinds of hair. I mean come on.

Apparently there is a group of people who are ashamed of their hair and as a result do not want the differences in hair textures acknowledged. That's all I can gather from this.
Originally Posted by curlylaru
Yes, there are different types of hair. Absolutely. And yes, its a big factor in determining what products to use. The differences are wether your hair is fine, med, coarse, hi or low porosity, etc. Your HAIR PROPERTIES are the difference. Thats what makes the different hair types. 3b, 3c, 4a, those are just descriptions of curl types, NOT hair type. You seem to be getting the two (curl type & hair type) confused.

Sent from my PG06100 using CurlTalk App
Originally Posted by wurlacurls
You're right! Andre's hair typing system isn't really about hair type at all. It bases the categories on curl size only. Therefore a person can have silky fine hair and someone can have course thick hair and both be 3c. Although they both have the same hair type under Andre's system because of their curl size...they in reality do not. Then factor in all the other important hair properties that you mentioned and those two people MOST likely won't be able to use the same products although according to Andre's system they have the same hair type.

On my EVO
This went south pretty quickly .

Call your hair whatever you want, just don't look at peoples hair from avatars and try to lecture them on their hair properties .

Whether or not you continue to spout how great your 3c/3d4k hair is, to people IRL that is jargon .

I care for my hair based on how it reacts to products and techniques and I would advise any newbie to do same .
Originally Posted by ttlolla
Yes! How can you look at a pic and determine hair properties? Impossible. Yea, you can make a guess on curl type, but curl type doesnt tell you anything at all about what works for your hair.

Sent from my PG06100 using CurlTalk App
LOL @ this thread. SMH.

Have some pride Ladies.
Originally Posted by curlylaru
I don't understand. Who lacks pride?

On my EVO
Jo Somebody likes this.

No it's not like the paper bag test. Texture and type of hair is a big factor in how you need to take care of it and what type of hair styles will work on your hair. There is a purpose for a hair stylist making a distinct difference between different kinds of hair. I mean come on.

Apparently there is a group of people who are ashamed of their hair and as a result do not want the differences in hair textures acknowledged. That's all I can gather from this.
Originally Posted by curlylaru
Yes, there are different types of hair. Absolutely. And yes, its a big factor in determining what products to use. The differences are wether your hair is fine, med, coarse, hi or low porosity, etc. Your HAIR PROPERTIES are the difference. Thats what makes the different hair types. 3b, 3c, 4a, those are just descriptions of curl types, NOT hair type. You seem to be getting the two (curl type & hair type) confused.

Sent from my PG06100 using CurlTalk App
Originally Posted by wurlacurls
You're right! Andre's hair typing system isn't really about hair type at all. It bases the categories on curl size only. Therefore a person can have silky fine hair and someone can have course thick hair and both be 3c. Although they both have the same hair type under Andre's system because of their curl size...they in reality do not. Then factor in all the other important hair properties that you mentioned and those two people MOST likely won't be able to use the same products although according to Andre's system they have the same hair type.

On my EVO
Originally Posted by Kilajo
The system seems to be based on vanity only; not so much on care.
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