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Old 10-06-2011, 01:23 PM   #81
 
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There is definately a difference imo. For instance my hair look absolutely nothing like yours and as such would definately respond to hair styles, techniques and products differently.

I honestly feel like people with 4 type hair are the main ones who have a problem with people differentiating hair types because they want to pretend all hair is the same in order to diffuse the fact that their hair type is kinky in texture.

Is there anything wrong with kinky or type 4 hair? Of course not. Do a lot of people believe there is something wrong with it? Unfortunately based on what I've been seeing around these boards, I think so.

I haven't said much about it before but it's honestly pathetic imo. It just reads I hate my black self to me.
*sigh*. DONE.
Most of us know that a name for you hair means absolutely nothing at the end of day. Many of the ladies use shea butter here. I cannot because it sits on my hair. Does that automatically make me a 3a because it works for all the 4a ladies? I can care less if someone wants to call their hair 3D... I don't lose a dollar every time someone falls of the 4a bandwagon.

It doesn't work for me either and I'm pretty sure I'm a 4a with thin hair. I have to seriously dilute the shea butter with either water or whip it with aloe vera or another conditioner. By itself it is too much for my hair and just sits there. I have thin hair though so I think this is the problem with using the heavy shea butter by itself. I have something of the same problem with castor oil, it's just too thick by itself for my hair.
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Condish: ElucenceMBC, HEHH, my kitchen mixes

Moisturizer: mixed spritz of: H20, aloe vera juice, honey, EVCO, ElucenceMBC

Curl Definer: H20 & a shake, my moisturizer mix.... or aloe vera/flax seed/ic fantsia gel if I'm not being lazy.

Styles: wash-n-go, twists just curl up like my wash-n-go

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Old 10-06-2011, 01:27 PM   #82
 
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Wow.
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Old 10-06-2011, 01:34 PM   #83
 
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This is why I always had a problem with this system. As someone that crochets and uses straws, I have come to the conclusion that 3C and 4a are one and the same. My "j" crochet hook is the same size as a regular drinking straw. My "m" crochet hook is probably the same size as a jumbo straw (sorry, don't have a jumbo straw to compare). NC came up with 3C to appease individuals that felt the same way the OP does.

Now, if someone can tell me what size crochet hook 4a is and it is a different size than size "j", maybe I will be convinced that there is 3C & 4A. Until then, 3C & 4A are one and the same.
Well, I was thinking they meant the size of the actual needle. I don't crochet but my MIL does and to me the metal part of her hook thing looks smaller than a straw. More like the size of a coffee stirrer instead of an actual drinking straw, but that's just my opinion. I didn't write the rules on it. I think the sizes are different but it means nothing to me in terms of hair care.
Crochet hooks or needles come in various sizes. Ranging from 1.00 mm to 10.00 mm. I have one the size of a coffee stir. Forgive me. I am trying to point out how silly this typing system is.
Oh okay. Well then I don't know what naturally curly is talking about. LOL. At least most of us are in agreement that curl size doesn't mean much. Too bad we can't have a pop-up on the 4a forum for newbies explaning that.
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Old 10-06-2011, 01:34 PM   #84
 
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I don't like to call things stupid but...hair typing is stupid. If you "need" it in order to describe your hair...um what? Whatever happened to using, oh, I don't know, words? Curly, tightly curled, wavy, etc? IMO that argument/justification for hair typing is terrible. It's like before there was hair typing, we grunted and made noises to describe our hair.

Also, there are some NC vets with type 2 and 3 hair that have expressed their dislike/nonconcurrence with hair typing, so the notion that type 4s are the only ones knocking it is incorrect.
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Old 10-06-2011, 01:40 PM   #85
 
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It doesn't work for me either and I'm pretty sure I'm a 4a with thin hair. I have to seriously dilute the shea butter with either water or whip it with aloe vera or another conditioner. By itself it is too much for my hair and just sits there. I have thin hair though so I think this is the problem with using the heavy shea butter by itself. I have something of the same problem with castor oil, it's just too thick by itself for my hair.
My strands are on the coarser side and, based on the information gathered from this thread, I would have been characterized as a type 4 hater, and shea butter doesn't work for me either. It may have to do with the porosity of my hair.
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Old 10-06-2011, 01:41 PM   #86
 
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Whats the difference between 3c and 4a hair? The size of the curl?

If there would be a new category what is the difference between the 3c and the 3d?
There is definately a difference imo. For instance my hair look absolutely nothing like yours and as such would definately respond to hair styles, techniques and products differently.

I honestly feel like people with 4 type hair are the main ones who have a problem with people differentiating hair types because they want to pretend all hair is the same in order to diffuse the fact that their hair type is kinky in texture.

Is there anything wrong with kinky or type 4 hair? Of course not. Do a lot of people believe there is something wrong with it? Unfortunately based on what I've been seeing around these boards, I think so.

I haven't said much about it before but it's honestly pathetic imo. It just reads I hate my black self to me.

I have to disagree with the bolded. My hair looking nothing like yours means nothing because We might have the same porosity and density issues,

I use products by ingredients not hair type. I use products geared for straight, kinky , coarse ,dense, white, black , indian... etc

With product, moisture, and the of health of my hair can look like a 3c and on a bad day this so called 4c

what it all boils down for me is the health of my hair not some type classification that some man come up with who doesnt even know how to style kinky hair other than straightening it or slapping a relaxer on it.
I have to co-sign with cerendipity/shawny on the being able to look like so-called 3c....I can do it pretty easily just by moisturizing too but I prefer my separated thin 4a curls that happen when I shake and go with nothing but water on it. If I use moisturizers beyond water I definitely get a larger curl with no real effort involved. Matter of fact, I can run my fingers through my wet hair and get bigger curls. Plus I'm noticing that the longer my hair gets, the more the curls hang/loosen....people really shouldn't knock something that they don't have any experience with. Just because you can't get your hair to look differently doesn't mean that others can't. Everybody wants to be special.... I'll make it look the way I want and then some.....matter of fact I can make it look like a 2b/3a with waves if I want with no effort but the use of a brush. <shrugs> seriously it's just hair. Some people just don't care whether other people think their hair "looks 3c". I'm with shawny, it'll look how I want it to look. There's no difference between 3c and 4a to me, since most 4a's can get bigger curls too they just don't bother with it.

Personally, hair typing never helped me with my hair. I find the best products based on my porosity and density, nothing much to do with my hair type.
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Hair type: the back and sides have small spiraly curls, the top and front just wave like, "hi! how ya doin?"

Condish: ElucenceMBC, HEHH, my kitchen mixes

Moisturizer: mixed spritz of: H20, aloe vera juice, honey, EVCO, ElucenceMBC

Curl Definer: H20 & a shake, my moisturizer mix.... or aloe vera/flax seed/ic fantsia gel if I'm not being lazy.

Styles: wash-n-go, twists just curl up like my wash-n-go

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Old 10-06-2011, 01:54 PM   #87
 
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Originally Posted by Cerendipity View Post
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There is definately a difference imo. For instance my hair look absolutely nothing like yours and as such would definately respond to hair styles, techniques and products differently.

I honestly feel like people with 4 type hair are the main ones who have a problem with people differentiating hair types because they want to pretend all hair is the same in order to diffuse the fact that their hair type is kinky in texture.

Is there anything wrong with kinky or type 4 hair? Of course not. Do a lot of people believe there is something wrong with it? Unfortunately based on what I've been seeing around these boards, I think so.

I haven't said much about it before but it's honestly pathetic imo. It just reads I hate my black self to me.

I have to disagree with the bolded. My hair looking nothing like yours means nothing because We might have the same porosity and density issues,

I use products by ingredients not hair type. I use products geared for straight, kinky , coarse ,dense, white, black , indian... etc

With product, moisture, and the of health of my hair can look like a 3c and on a bad day this so called 4c

what it all boils down for me is the health of my hair not some type classification that some man come up with who doesnt even know how to style kinky hair other than straightening it or slapping a relaxer on it.
I have to co-sign with cerendipity/shawny on the being able to look like so-called 3c....I can do it pretty easily just by moisturizing too but I prefer my separated thin 4a curls that happen when I shake and go with nothing but water on it. If I use moisturizers beyond water I definitely get a larger curl with no real effort involved. Matter of fact, I can run my fingers through my wet hair and get bigger curls. Plus I'm noticing that the longer my hair gets, the more the curls hang/loosen....people really shouldn't knock something that they don't have any experience with. Just because you can't get your hair to look differently doesn't mean that others can't. Everybody wants to be special.... I'll make it look the way I want and then some.....matter of fact I can make it look like a 2b/3a with waves if I want with no effort but the use of a brush. <shrugs> seriously it's just hair. Some people just don't care whether other people think their hair "looks 3c". I'm with shawny, it'll look how I want it to look. There's no difference between 3c and 4a to me, since most 4a's can get bigger curls too they just don't bother with it.

Personally, hair typing never helped me with my hair. I find the best products based on my porosity and density, nothing much to do with my hair type.
I agree with all this. Im still learning how to get the results I want. I have noticed certain moisturizers loosen my curls alot. I personaly dont care for the looser curls. For me the tighter the better, and I like a little frizz too. A couple of times I have gotten it to come out tight like 4a, but I dont know how I did it. Thats what I want every day. Just gotta keep playin with it.

Sorry for getting off topic..

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Old 10-06-2011, 02:15 PM   #88
 
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LOL @ this thread. SMH.

Have some pride Ladies.
Wellll I'm not the one trying to generalize and say that those who don't agree with something must have self hatred, so I'm pretty sure the majority of our pride is intact, thanks.
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Old 10-06-2011, 02:29 PM   #89
 
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I posted this on the 3c forum, but I want your opinions too. So I'm not really obsessed with curl pattern, I do understand that a lot of other hair characteristics play into whether our hair shares commonalities with the hair of other peeps, however, I do think that defining one's curl pattern can be somewhat useful (especially if you are trying to figure out how elongated or defined a certain product or styling method will make your curls)
I've found over the last almost year that my curl pattern seems to sit somewhere in between the curls on my 3c and 4a sisters (and brothers). Rather than trying to squeeze myself into one of these categories, I started to describe my hair pattern without any product or manipulation as 3D....
Do ya'll feel me? Is there a missing link in your opinion? Or am I just confused?
Oh here are pics of my curls.
Attached Thumbnails
What makes you think you aren't 3c (straw-size curls) or 4a (Crochet needle size curls)? I don't get the confusion around this unless you have a mix of both in which case you could just refer to yourself as 3c/4a like many of us do.

I'm not sure a whole new letter is necessary. It makes it seem like you don't want to be a 4 category so you're going to create a new 3 category.
I'd have no problem with being in the "4a" category actually it would make things simpler, I just don't think my hair exactly fits smoothly into either of the "boxes"
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Old 10-06-2011, 02:34 PM   #90
 
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Originally Posted by NaturallyCJ View Post
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I posted this on the 3c forum, but I want your opinions too. So I'm not really obsessed with curl pattern, I do understand that a lot of other hair characteristics play into whether our hair shares commonalities with the hair of other peeps, however, I do think that defining one's curl pattern can be somewhat useful (especially if you are trying to figure out how elongated or defined a certain product or styling method will make your curls)
I've found over the last almost year that my curl pattern seems to sit somewhere in between the curls on my 3c and 4a sisters (and brothers). Rather than trying to squeeze myself into one of these categories, I started to describe my hair pattern without any product or manipulation as 3D....
Do ya'll feel me? Is there a missing link in your opinion? Or am I just confused?
Oh here are pics of my curls.
Attached Thumbnails
What makes you think you aren't 3c (straw-size curls) or 4a (Crochet needle size curls)? I don't get the confusion around this unless you have a mix of both in which case you could just refer to yourself as 3c/4a like many of us do.

I'm not sure a whole new letter is necessary. It makes it seem like you don't want to be a 4 category so you're going to create a new 3 category.
I'd have no problem with being in the "4a" category actually it would make things simpler, I just don't think my hair exactly fits smoothly into either of the "boxes"
I understand, but your hair doesn't have to fit into one of those boxes for you to learn how to take proper care of it. Do you know your texture, density and porosity? Maybe you could try determing your hair care based on those three things instead of curl size as many have suggested in this thread.

ETA: so why do you think you aren't 4a? Are you basing this on something other than the size of your curls?
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Last edited by NaturallyCJ; 10-06-2011 at 02:45 PM.
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Old 10-06-2011, 03:16 PM   #91
 
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Originally Posted by shainala View Post
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Originally Posted by NaturallyCJ View Post
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Originally Posted by shainala View Post
I posted this on the 3c forum, but I want your opinions too. So I'm not really obsessed with curl pattern, I do understand that a lot of other hair characteristics play into whether our hair shares commonalities with the hair of other peeps, however, I do think that defining one's curl pattern can be somewhat useful (especially if you are trying to figure out how elongated or defined a certain product or styling method will make your curls)
I've found over the last almost year that my curl pattern seems to sit somewhere in between the curls on my 3c and 4a sisters (and brothers). Rather than trying to squeeze myself into one of these categories, I started to describe my hair pattern without any product or manipulation as 3D....
Do ya'll feel me? Is there a missing link in your opinion? Or am I just confused?
Oh here are pics of my curls.
Attached Thumbnails
What makes you think you aren't 3c (straw-size curls) or 4a (Crochet needle size curls)? I don't get the confusion around this unless you have a mix of both in which case you could just refer to yourself as 3c/4a like many of us do.

I'm not sure a whole new letter is necessary. It makes it seem like you don't want to be a 4 category so you're going to create a new 3 category.
I'd have no problem with being in the "4a" category actually it would make things simpler, I just don't think my hair exactly fits smoothly into either of the "boxes"

I don't fit either so I understand what you mean. That's why I stopped trying to use the typing system at all, because I truly didn't fit into either/or. Most people don't fit into either/or. It truly is a ridiculous way of caring for the hair. I don't think you mean you want to be a 3 or 4, just that you'd like to know where to go for guidance with your hair. I tried the "boxes" at first, took me less than a month to realize that even using what someone else did just because their hair "looked" more like mine, didn't really mean it was going to work for me. I definitely have to go by the ingredients that are best suited for my high porosity, thin density hair.
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Hair type: the back and sides have small spiraly curls, the top and front just wave like, "hi! how ya doin?"

Condish: ElucenceMBC, HEHH, my kitchen mixes

Moisturizer: mixed spritz of: H20, aloe vera juice, honey, EVCO, ElucenceMBC

Curl Definer: H20 & a shake, my moisturizer mix.... or aloe vera/flax seed/ic fantsia gel if I'm not being lazy.

Styles: wash-n-go, twists just curl up like my wash-n-go

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Old 10-06-2011, 04:20 PM   #92
 
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I never got the real difference between 3c and 4a anyway. And even 3d is pushing it a little more. I mean, it's like the difference between an A- and B+. Not much really, if anything just enough to make you feel good by saying it's an A. Pointwise, not much at all.

I know it's human nature to wanna label things and put them in boxes. But our hair is too unique to adhere to 1 standard. Just say it's _, _, and _ and call it a day. If you wanna call it 3d and give the label some power, do you. But seeing how most of us (again, most) stepped outside a box to go natural, I can't help but wonder why would someone go through such lengths to put themselves back in one? That's where all the side-eyes come in. Just my 2 pennies.....
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Old 10-06-2011, 06:01 PM   #93
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As it has been previously pointed out, the 3c category was not created by Andre Walker. So if your curls are not the size of 3b then that would make you a type 4 if you want to be technical about it. That's why it doesn't matter. You can be type 3, type 17, type infinity if you want. Seriously, it's something some guy made up. My hair doesn't know or care who Andre Walker is. If looking at someone else's hair that you believe to be similar to yours helps you figure out styling and products then it is awesome that it works for you! Whatever works, keep doing that and your hair will flourish.

I will also say that you cannot tell what somebody else's hair looks like based off pictures. You just can't. Too many factors come into play when taking a photograph of anything as to what the final outcome of the picture will be like. Most of the shots we see are texture shots, so the camera is zoomed in far or it is up close to the hair strands so that people can see it well. Different products will make hair respond differently, as will other factors.

Outside of hair boards, nobody knows what I am talking about when I say my hair is 4a. Most of the things that work for the 4a ladies on this forum do not work for me at all. I had to develop my own regimen based on how my hair responded to what I did to it.

In conclusion, if your hair is type Slinky or type Ramen Noodle, type wool, or type cotton ball, then whip it back and forth and keep it moving. Life is so short and things like this just shouldn't hold weight. Take care. I'll be lurking.
 
Old 10-06-2011, 08:03 PM   #94
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Funny how people with type 4 kinky hair are the only or main ones on the entire board who take so much issue with the hair typing system. Everyone else on the board seem to utilize for what it was meant for just fine.

In conclusion I like the typing system it has been a huge help in develping my hair style and routine and I'll continue to believe what I think above. That some of ya'll appear to have some huge insecurities when it comes to your hair textures and it's a real shame imo as it's part of who you are as black women.
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Old 10-06-2011, 08:11 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by Cerendipity View Post
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There is definately a difference imo. For instance my hair look absolutely nothing like yours and as such would definately respond to hair styles, techniques and products differently.

I honestly feel like people with 4 type hair are the main ones who have a problem with people differentiating hair types because they want to pretend all hair is the same in order to diffuse the fact that their hair type is kinky in texture.

Is there anything wrong with kinky or type 4 hair? Of course not. Do a lot of people believe there is something wrong with it? Unfortunately based on what I've been seeing around these boards, I think so.

I haven't said much about it before but it's honestly pathetic imo. It just reads I hate my black self to me.

I have to disagree with the bolded. My hair looking nothing like yours means nothing because We might have the same porosity and density issues,

I use products by ingredients not hair type. I use products geared for straight, kinky , coarse ,dense, white, black , indian... etc

With product, moisture, and the of health of my hair can look like a 3c and on a bad day this so called 4c

what it all boils down for me is the health of my hair not some type classification that some man come up with who doesnt even know how to style kinky hair other than straightening it or slapping a relaxer on it.
I have to co-sign with cerendipity/shawny on the being able to look like so-called 3c....I can do it pretty easily just by moisturizing too but I prefer my separated thin 4a curls that happen when I shake and go with nothing but water on it. If I use moisturizers beyond water I definitely get a larger curl with no real effort involved. Matter of fact, I can run my fingers through my wet hair and get bigger curls. Plus I'm noticing that the longer my hair gets, the more the curls hang/loosen....people really shouldn't knock something that they don't have any experience with. Just because you can't get your hair to look differently doesn't mean that others can't. Everybody wants to be special.... I'll make it look the way I want and then some.....matter of fact I can make it look like a 2b/3a with waves if I want with no effort but the use of a brush. <shrugs> seriously it's just hair. Some people just don't care whether other people think their hair "looks 3c". I'm with shawny, it'll look how I want it to look. There's no difference between 3c and 4a to me, since most 4a's can get bigger curls too they just don't bother with it.

Personally, hair typing never helped me with my hair. I find the best products based on my porosity and density, nothing much to do with my hair type.

@ the bolded

a. Who said anything about anyone feeling or trying to feel special? Is that how you feel about people with certain hair types? All I've heard mentioned is differentiating different hair types to help with researching style and care options.

b. the difference between 4a and 3c is 3c doesn't have to do anything to their hair to get said curls. Setting or maniputlating the hair to acheive looser curls or waves is NOT the same type of hair as someone who's hair does that on it's own without manipulation. It doesn't look or behave the same either LOL.

This is rediculous. A bunch of black women who don't want to be acknowledged as having the kind of hair that they have. No 4a hair will never look like 3a hair.
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Old 10-06-2011, 08:25 PM   #96
 
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I have to disagree with the bolded. My hair looking nothing like yours means nothing because We might have the same porosity and density issues,

I use products by ingredients not hair type. I use products geared for straight, kinky , coarse ,dense, white, black , indian... etc

With product, moisture, and the of health of my hair can look like a 3c and on a bad day this so called 4c

what it all boils down for me is the health of my hair not some type classification that some man come up with who doesnt even know how to style kinky hair other than straightening it or slapping a relaxer on it.
I have to co-sign with cerendipity/shawny on the being able to look like so-called 3c....I can do it pretty easily just by moisturizing too but I prefer my separated thin 4a curls that happen when I shake and go with nothing but water on it. If I use moisturizers beyond water I definitely get a larger curl with no real effort involved. Matter of fact, I can run my fingers through my wet hair and get bigger curls. Plus I'm noticing that the longer my hair gets, the more the curls hang/loosen....people really shouldn't knock something that they don't have any experience with. Just because you can't get your hair to look differently doesn't mean that others can't. Everybody wants to be special.... I'll make it look the way I want and then some.....matter of fact I can make it look like a 2b/3a with waves if I want with no effort but the use of a brush. <shrugs> seriously it's just hair. Some people just don't care whether other people think their hair "looks 3c". I'm with shawny, it'll look how I want it to look. There's no difference between 3c and 4a to me, since most 4a's can get bigger curls too they just don't bother with it.

Personally, hair typing never helped me with my hair. I find the best products based on my porosity and density, nothing much to do with my hair type.

@ the bolded

a. Who said anything about anyone feeling or trying to feel special? Is that how you feel about people with certain hair types? All I've heard mentioned is differentiating different hair types to help with researching style and care options.

b. the difference between 4a and 3c is 3c doesn't have to do anything to their hair to get said curls. Setting or maniputlating the hair to acheive looser curls or waves is NOT the same type of hair as someone who's hair does that on it's own without manipulation. It doesn't look or behave the same either LOL.

This is rediculous. A bunch of black women who don't want to be acknowledged as having the kind of hair that they have. No 4a hair will never look like 3a hair.
Wow..are you stalking me in my shower or after I wash my hair? Cuz i love how you think you know what my hair does when you're not present.......and what is the deal with "a bunch of black women"...for all you know I'm not black, I just have dark skin and curly hair.....gotta love people who make ASSumptions about something they have no experience with.

So done. I'm off to do my beautiful 4a-OMG!-it-looks-like-3c! hair.....
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Hair type: the back and sides have small spiraly curls, the top and front just wave like, "hi! how ya doin?"

Condish: ElucenceMBC, HEHH, my kitchen mixes

Moisturizer: mixed spritz of: H20, aloe vera juice, honey, EVCO, ElucenceMBC

Curl Definer: H20 & a shake, my moisturizer mix.... or aloe vera/flax seed/ic fantsia gel if I'm not being lazy.

Styles: wash-n-go, twists just curl up like my wash-n-go

KinkyKurlyKustard is the DEBIL! The DEBIL!
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Old 10-06-2011, 08:31 PM   #97
 
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Originally Posted by cheveuxbouclés View Post
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Originally Posted by teejay View Post
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Originally Posted by NaturallyCJ View Post
Shawny, per naturally curly the difference between 3c and 4a is curl size. 3c being straw size and 4a being crochet needle size. I agree that curl size does not determine which products work for ones hair. I have 3c sized curls from my crown to my nape and 4a sized curls around my hair line. I don't use one product recommended for 3c on my crown and one recommended for 4a sized curls around my hair line. All of my hair regardless of curl size is thin, low porosity, and densely packed. The products I buy cater to those features of my hair. Not my curl size.
This is why I always had a problem with this system. As someone that crochets and uses straws, I have come to the conclusion that 3C and 4a are one and the same. My "j" crochet hook is the same size as a regular drinking straw. My "m" crochet hook is probably the same size as a jumbo straw (sorry, don't have a jumbo straw to compare). NC came up with 3C to appease individuals that felt the same way the OP does.

Now, if someone can tell me what size crochet hook 4a is and it is a different size than size "j", maybe I will be convinced that there is 3C & 4A. Until then, 3C & 4A are one and the same.
You owe me a casket...
I was thinking the same thing cause needles come in different sizes
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Old 10-06-2011, 08:32 PM   #98
 
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Foxy where you at? It is smelling mighty troll-y up in here.

And if you are going to say ' redicioulous' over and over, please use google chrome or firefox.They underline your misspelled words...
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Old 10-06-2011, 08:35 PM   #99
 
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Lololol cheve

Yeahhhhhboi, Im on my smartphone!!!
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Old 10-06-2011, 08:44 PM   #100
 
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Ummmmm...type 4 hair can be curly without manipulating it.

Not everyone with type 4 hair has a cottony afro (not that there is anything wrong with that kind of hair). You sure have a lot to say about hair that you clearly know nothing about.

A bunch of black women? Marinate on what was wrong with addressing people in that manner, and come back when you're ready.

I'm on a boat.
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