Is Big Chopping Against The Bible?

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Kinky DaySha (love that name) I can respect your opinion and congrats on your 10 year marriage...especially since it's to a person that is not Christian. I couldn't marry a non-Jew under any circumstances..but that's me. Been with the same Jewish man for almost 19 years now and we've been married for 14 of those years.

But I have to disagree with you on Christians having any ties to Judaism. And historically it doesn't pan out unless you deliberately "tie" things. And I get it.. I know they teach that in Christianity...but even the Church Fathers tried to rid the Church of it initially.

But I respect your right to your views though.
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Well technically ALL religions and religious texts are man made, Christian, Jew, Hindu, Buddhist, etc.. Hence the confusion, the many interpretations and misinterpretations.

Religion would be better if no one wrote anything down.. Everyone makes up your own mind about things anyways, so why bother trying to box "the limitless eternal" into something as limited as words?

...anyways, carry on. Not trying to light any fires.. just adding my 2 centavos.
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BekkaPoo, you know I adore you, but I'm going to dispute one thing you said. The thing is that some people just don't make up their own minds; they let authority figures from whatever religion tell them what to think or do. Then that becomes the "law" for them.

That's part of the problem, and to me, what the OP is struggling with (the being told "this is what the Bible means on this subject").

Hope I haven't offended B. or anyone with this argument.
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Christians study the OT just as much as the NT. As I call myself a Christian, I mean just that - a follower of Christ. I want to be Christlike. I know what that means, it's supposed to be the basis of Christianity. I don't like all of the stipulations and the "Well, you have to do things this way, and stand on your head in purple on the last Friday of the month or you're not a "real" Christian" stuff. That's religion, man made. A Jew may not think he existed, a Muslim may think he was just a prophet. They may not even refer to Him in any manner, fine, do you. But lineage, history, God (who He is, His character, etc..) is shared. I believe all 3 come from the same area geographically and historically. The OT is a huge tie between them. The fact that we all share it means something. It doesn't take anything from any of them individually that they are connected. Customs, practices, secondary beliefs (I call them secondary cause belief in the one true God is primary) are what define them individually. That being said I don't know alot about Judiasm. I've learned so much in this thread, it makes me want to learn more. But I know about Islam so I feel more confident in my feelings about it. I know all 3 are about God and love and faith. Their fundamentals are the same, thats what beliefs are about. Not misinterpretation of written word, or people turning the words to suit their own selfish purposes.

I am Christian, my husband is a Muslim. We are married 10 1/2 years. Our children have both Muslim and Christian names. We have great respect for each other's religions because of what they stand for. If someone wants to call my husband a heathen and say I'm going to hell for marrying or socializing with him, fine. That's a man's opinion. If someone wants to say he's less of a Muslim because he allows his wife to go to church and uncover her hair, that's a man's opinion. If some fool wants to say I'm out of God's graces for cutting my hair. That's a man's opinion. But my relationship with God can only be defined by me and God. There are things that are fundamental. The rest is just garbage thrown in by a human being to manipulate people or put them into a box.
Originally Posted by Kinky DaySha
My boyfriend is Muslim and he has no problem with me being Christian and has even said he would never ask me to convert. I have never met another Christian/Muslim couple. Congrats on your marriage. That just made me smile and my heart jump.
I think these types of discussions are important and productive. The only problem is people who feel like they need to change someone's mind instead of taking an opportunity to learn about eachother. I know I grew up in a church and my family never really taught me about other denominations within Christianity let alone what other faiths believe. As I got older I visited other churches. But there are a lot of people who never venture out to learn about anything other than what they grew up with so they have no understanding of anything else. So that breeds a lot of lies, distrust, and prejudice. I'm not going to lie, my grandma told me that Jews killed Jesus. I don't believe that and I don't think my granny even knew any Jewish people. But if I never took the time to find things out for myself I might have just taken her word for it. I think some people are scared someone will try to convert them but actually, I think learning about other faiths deepened my Christianity.
Someone mentioned that whole Allah not being the same as God controversy. I talked to a Muslim woman about this and she said in the Arabic language the translation for the English word "God" is "Allah" with no bearing on the religion. So if a Christian spoke Arabic he would say "Allah" in his prayers. It's just like "Dios" means God in Spanish. But you don't hear people screaming Dios and God aren't the same because that would be stupid.
BekkaPoo, you know I adore you, but I'm going to dispute one thing you said. The thing is that some people just don't make up their own minds; they let authority figures from whatever religion tell them what to think or do. Then that becomes the "law" for them.

That's part of the problem, and to me, what the OP is struggling with (the being told "this is what the Bible means on this subject").

Hope I haven't offended B. or anyone with this argument.
Originally Posted by ninja dog
Unfortunately many authority figures ( not all or probably most) in religion encourage people to just do what they are told is right. In my opinion, the human mind is a beautiful instrument that should be used to understand religion (as best we can), question it, and to bring us spiritually to a higher place. However this takes work (for religous followers and leaders) and sometimes people just want it told to them.
I'm not a Christian (Moral Nihilist), so bear with me if this is wrong, but isn't vanity something also preached against in the Bible? Wouldn't that mean that a woman's hair being her "pride and glory" is just as bad?
I'm not trying to start anything; I'm honestly curious.
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Read this post on CN yesterday and it's really got me thinking. Not sure where I stand. What do you all think?

Big Chopping and the Bible | Curly Nikki | Natural Hair Styles and Curly Hair Care
Originally Posted by Precious Curls

Oy vey. Frankly, that particular verse in the New Testament Bible doesn't apply to me. I'm Jewish and the NT is irrelevant to my own life..but I have extensively studied the NT, Christianity, and Paul.

Anyhoo..This whole issue is based on 1 Corinthians 11. I would have to go into a bunch of nauseating detail to really flesh it out for you. But the bottom line is Paul is talking about the supposed order under God. God being the top, the husband being the second, the wife being under her husband and God.

Paul gives the advice that if the woman doesn't cover her head while she is praying or prophesying it is a disgrace because she's not showing the proper order of things. It's a sign of disrespect. In those days.. normally most men wore their hair short and woman grew their hair long and wore veils if they weren't with their spouse. It's was normally harlots that cut their hair short.

So Paul is basically saying if the wife is not going to cover her head to show the proper order of things in during prayer and prophecy... she might as well go all out and shave her darn hair all off or cut it super short like a man would. Because she'd be "out of order" anyway by not showing propriety during prayer and prophesy.

Notice though in verse 16 of the text Paul says that if any man is contentious about what he's saying..recognize there is no actual LAW. They use the word "custom" in English taken from some Greek words that mean a certain thing to Paul. Paul was for all intents and purposes a Jewish man and he thought more from a Hebraic perspective. So he uses the the term in a certain way when he uses it.

So I would venture to say the understanding is he's saying there is no actual Jewish Halacha (law or Jewish codeified prohibition) against it. He's simply making guidelines concerning propriety for the church community that he's trying to establish to keep order. He's not saying a woman MUST do as he says..he's basically saying, "If any of ya'll wanna catch an attitude about what I'm saying about propriety then do you cause what I'm saying isn't law anyway..I'm just trying to get yall to see order!"

You have to realize that Paul gives a lot of what he feels are useful and helpful guidelines to the people he's build up. So that when he leaves they won't revert back to their old ways of impropriety. Keep in mind the letter is to people in Corinth which was in Greece. These people were formerly pagans. So he's trying to get them to be "holy". Some of what he says is not always what he has gotten from his revelation from Jesus Christ or god. It's just his own advice.

So it's important to denote that Paul makes distinctions about what are his own ideas and what has been revealed to him through the word of Jesus Christ or god.

Unfortunately, many of Paul's epistles have been used in Christianity to brow beat the hell out of women into being "submissive" to their husband and other men. Paul's words have been distorted to base all sorts of nonsensical beliefs on that have been one of which I consider primary in the many errors in mainstream Christianity.

But I assure you there is no admonisment from Paul or any other apostle or Jesus Christ that a woman that has chemically relaxed or altered her hair can't cut or shave that part or all of it off to grow back her hair to a healthy and natural state. Heck.. I would think Paul would be glad of it.. a woman getting back to originally what god made her.. nu ?
Originally Posted by *Marah*
BRAVO! Well said!

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BekkaPoo, you know I adore you, but I'm going to dispute one thing you said. The thing is that some people just don't make up their own minds; they let authority figures from whatever religion tell them what to think or do. Then that becomes the "law" for them.

That's part of the problem, and to me, what the OP is struggling with (the being told "this is what the Bible means on this subject").

Hope I haven't offended B. or anyone with this argument.
Originally Posted by ninja dog
Unfortunately many authority figures ( not all or probably most) in religion encourage people to just do what they are told is right. In my opinion, the human mind is a beautiful instrument that should be used to understand religion (as best we can), question it, and to bring us spiritually to a higher place. However this takes work (for religous followers and leaders) and sometimes people just want it told to them.
Originally Posted by DBOO75115
I agree with both of your bolded points.. I'm definitely not offended.

For me, I hate the idea of "leaders" as well.. but I guess not all people can or want to lead themselves.
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Not getting into the religious discussion, just wanted to say...

On the original link, did anyone catch this comment (taken from Nov 16, 5:40)

But for me, since reading about this in the Word of God 12 years ago, I haven't cut, trimmed, nor shaved my hair. It's neck length. Yes, I have split ends, but who doesn't? And those break off when they do. Does my hair look a mess? Nope. I condition, moisturize, style etc. and it looks great.
On an extremely shallow note, I find it hard to believe her hair looks "great."
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12 yrs and still neck length??? ::blows whistle:: flag on the play.


Curse you iPhone!!!
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Not getting into the religious discussion, just wanted to say...

On the original link, did anyone catch this comment (taken from Nov 16, 5:40)

But for me, since reading about this in the Word of God 12 years ago, I haven't cut, trimmed, nor shaved my hair. It's neck length. Yes, I have split ends, but who doesn't? And those break off when they do. Does my hair look a mess? Nope. I condition, moisturize, style etc. and it looks great.
On an extremely shallow note, I find it hard to believe her hair looks "great."
Originally Posted by gemini

Wow........


Edit: So I aked my boyfriend if all three religions have the same God and he said "They all the same god, and only 1 god". They even have a holiday called Eid Al Adha, that celebrates when God asked Abraham to sacrafice Ishmael (in Christianity it is Isaac) and when he goes to do so God sends him a sheep (in Christianity this is a ram) instead. All in the Old Testament.

Jesus was Jewish, he couldn't have been Christian, because that would mean he was following himself, which doesn't make sense. Jesus' mother was Jewish and so was his father. And I think that means that since his mother was Jewish he was Jewish too, right? His mother had a religion and it sure wasn't Islam.

Last edited by favoritecolorblu; 11-20-2011 at 07:47 AM.

Edit: So I aked my boyfriend if all three religions have the same God and he said "They all the same god, and only 1 god". They even have a holiday called Eid Al Adha, that celebrates when God asked Abraham to sacrafice Ishmael (in Christianity it is Isaac) and when he goes to do so God sends him a sheep (in Christianity this is a ram) instead. All in the Old Testament.

Jesus was Jewish, he couldn't have been Christian, because that would mean he was following himself, which doesn't make sense. Jesus' mother was Jewish and so was his father. And I think that means that since his mother was Jewish he was Jewish too, right? His mother had a religion and it sure wasn't Islam.
Originally Posted by favoritecolorblu
So in other words your belief is that there is no connection of Jesus to Christianity and that he shouldn't be the Christian god at all then, right ? Which would be pretty moot for Christianity to exist at all then, nu ?

Cause if he was Jewish then he wouldn't be a god, he'd never have done away with, abolished, or disposed of Jewish Law. He was simply a man that followed Jewish Law, had some interesting teachings, and died as any other man does when his time comes.

And if Christianity believes Jesus is god then it's impossible for him to be the Christian god and be a practicing Jew at the same time considering it's idolatry and always has been in Judaism to make a man or any other thing else out to be "god". And well if he was Jewish he'd be well aware of that..and if he did anything contrary..he would have been shunned and killed. Oh wait a sec..that is what happened. If the Christian version of the story is to be believed.

So not sure how your boyfriend can be correct about all 3 religions having the same god..since Judaism doesn't recognize Jesus as any such thing for that matter neither do Muslims. Oh and for the record.. Judaism predates Christianity and Islam. And the Tanakh (which Jews have preserved, always owned, and hold all the rights to it) is the original.. the "Old Testament" is a hijacked version of Hebrew Scriptures. So really Judaism is the status quo and has maintained it all this time. Christianity and Islam coming along later giving their 2 cents on a Jewish text doesn't make them valid. No shade..that's just the truth.

Last edited by *Marah*; 11-20-2011 at 08:30 AM.

Edit: So I aked my boyfriend if all three religions have the same God and he said "They all the same god, and only 1 god". They even have a holiday called Eid Al Adha, that celebrates when God asked Abraham to sacrafice Ishmael (in Christianity it is Isaac) and when he goes to do so God sends him a sheep (in Christianity this is a ram) instead. All in the Old Testament.

Jesus was Jewish, he couldn't have been Christian, because that would mean he was following himself, which doesn't make sense. Jesus' mother was Jewish and so was his father. And I think that means that since his mother was Jewish he was Jewish too, right? His mother had a religion and it sure wasn't Islam.
Originally Posted by favoritecolorblu
So in other words your belief is that there is no connection of Jesus to Christianity and that he shouldn't be the Christian god at all then, right ? Which would be pretty moot for Christianity to exist at all then, nu ?

Cause if he was Jewish then he wouldn't be a god, he'd never have done away with, abolished, or disposed of Jewish Law. He was simply a man that followed Jewish Law, had some interesting teachings, and died as any other man does when his time comes.

And if Christianity believes Jesus is god then it's impossible for him to be the Christian god and be a practicing Jew at the same time considering it's idolatry and always has been in Judaism to make a man or any other thing else out to be "god". And well if he was Jewish he'd be well aware of that..and if he did anything contrary..he would have been shunned and killed. Oh wait a sec..that is what happened. If the Christian version of the story is to be believed.

So not sure how your boyfriend can be correct about all 3 religions having the same god..since Judaism doesn't recognize Jesus as any such thing for that matter neither do Muslims. Oh and for the record.. Judaism predates Christianity and Islam. And the Tanakh (which Jews have preserved, always owned, and hold all the rights to it) is the original.. the "Old Testament" is a hijacked version of Hebrew Scriptures. So really Judaism is the status quo and has maintained it all this time. Christianity and Islam coming along later giving their 2 cents on a Jewish text doesn't make them valid. No shade..that's just the truth.
Originally Posted by *Marah*
Go back and read my post. How can you be CHRISTIAN if you are CHRIST? That makes NO SENSE. Its like if there was a man called Jew and he started Judaism, then turn around and say he was Jewish. Christian literally means "One Who Follows Christ". How can someone follow themselves?

How is he incorrect? So the fact that you're Jewish makes you automatically correct? And since you seem to know so much about Jesus and the New Testement (which you don't follow) then you should know that Jesus and God are one in the same. You cannot (in Christianity) get to God without going through Jesus, which is another entitiy of God. When I do pray, I pray to God. When Muslims pray, they pray to Allah, which is God. The same God that you believe in. And Muslims do believe that Jesus existed, they just believe he was a prophet. Jews don't believe in him at all. Have you been to a Christian church or ceremony?

I'm done, I believe that all three religions have the same God, simple as that.

So weird that the author's acquaintance felt the need to push his interpretation of his religious doctrine on the author. I just cannot read that article without getting angry that people use the teachings of a revolutionary Jewish Rabbi (Jesus) who talked mostly about love and acceptance and disposing of nonsensical rules (like eating kosher etc) to subjugate women and tell women in the modern era what they can and cannot do.
Paul was a man, a man of his time. Not God.
Originally Posted by shainala
Now how the heck you goin' just rip Kashrut Law calling it "nonsensical" and then try to claim Jesus as a "revolutionary Rabbi" ? If that ain't a slap in the face for Jews all over the world that keep kosher..um including JESUS if you really believe he was JEWish. Jesus grew up as a Jewish boy according to the NT. So oh yeah..he kept Kosher. He better had or he would have got chin checked! And I triple guarantee you he didn't think it was "nonsensical" not even as an adult. He would never defile himself in such a manner nor disrespect his Father in Heaven being a Jewish man.

And no..where and I do mean NO WHERE in the NT does Jesus say ANYWHERE that keeping Kosher should be "disposed of". And if he did.. he wasn't Jewish at all..nor was he a "rabbi" so your point is blow to hell (pun intended)... But since we are going with "he was".. I'm telling you he did no such a thing.

So please.. I beg you to tell me you are not trying to use Matthew 12 to say Jesus taught any such a thing about disposing of keeping kosher. Please tell me. And for the record Jesus spent a good time chin checking folks too for their foolishness and works of inquity. He wasn't all about just "love this and love that".
And yeah..I gotta chip on my shoulder about the very notion that eating kosher is nonsensical for a JEW!

Girl Bye!
Originally Posted by *Marah*
Wow. I'm going to ask you to go back and read what I said before you jump down my throat and "girl bye" me. And now you're an authority on what a Jew and a Rabbi is? Pulease.
Raised reform, practicing reconstructionist, and I don't think your tone was called for. There are a lot of Jews that don't believe that keeping Kosher was a dictate from God, and you're saying they are not real Jews because they disagree with you?
Sounds like you come from the same school of thought as the man who said big-chopping is against the bible. Preach your orthodoxy to someone else.
Christians study the OT just as much as the NT. As I call myself a Christian, I mean just that - a follower of Christ. I want to be Christlike. I know what that means, it's supposed to be the basis of Christianity. I don't like all of the stipulations and the "Well, you have to do things this way, and stand on your head in purple on the last Friday of the month or you're not a "real" Christian" stuff. That's religion, man made. A Jew may not think he existed, a Muslim may think he was just a prophet. They may not even refer to Him in any manner, fine, do you. But lineage, history, God (who He is, His character, etc..) is shared. I believe all 3 come from the same area geographically and historically. The OT is a huge tie between them. The fact that we all share it means something. It doesn't take anything from any of them individually that they are connected. Customs, practices, secondary beliefs (I call them secondary cause belief in the one true God is primary) are what define them individually. That being said I don't know alot about Judiasm. I've learned so much in this thread, it makes me want to learn more. But I know about Islam so I feel more confident in my feelings about it. I know all 3 are about God and love and faith. Their fundamentals are the same, thats what beliefs are about. Not misinterpretation of written word, or people turning the words to suit their own selfish purposes.

I am Christian, my husband is a Muslim. We are married 10 1/2 years. Our children have both Muslim and Christian names. We have great respect for each other's religions because of what they stand for. If someone wants to call my husband a heathen and say I'm going to hell for marrying or socializing with him, fine. That's a man's opinion. If someone wants to say he's less of a Muslim because he allows his wife to go to church and uncover her hair, that's a man's opinion. If some fool wants to say I'm out of God's graces for cutting my hair. That's a man's opinion. But my relationship with God can only be defined by me and God. There are things that are fundamental. The rest is just garbage thrown in by a human being to manipulate people or put them into a box.
Originally Posted by Kinky DaySha
Well said!
Go back and read my post. How can you be CHRISTIAN if you are CHRIST? That makes NO SENSE. Its like if there was a man called Jew and he started Judaism, then turn around and say he was Jewish. Christian literally means "One Who Follows Christ". How can someone follow themselves?
Originally Posted by favoritecolorblu
Oh I read it. I wonder if you comprehend the contradiction of what you wrote though. All you did was prove my point. Using your logic Jesus wasn't a Christian and there is no point in Christianity. And so what was he.. a god ? And if he was a god then he couldn't be Jewish because there is no man-god in Judaism. Period. Never was.. never will be. Why couldn't he follow his own religion ? Moshe was in charge of leading Israel..and he followed Judaism. He was who all of Israel listened to when he said he got the word from the Creator. So sure.. a man can follow his own teachings. Muhammad followed his.. ask your BF about that..

How is he incorrect? So the fact that you're Jewish makes you automatically correct? And since you seem to know so much about Jesus and the New Testement (which you don't follow) then you should know that Jesus and God are one in the same. You cannot (in Christianity) get to God without going through Jesus, which is another entitiy of God. When I do pray, I pray to God. When Muslims pray, they pray to Allah, which is God. The same God that you believe in. And Muslims do believe that Jesus existed, they just believe he was a prophet. Jews don't believe in him at all. Have you been to a Christian church or ceremony?
No. It doesn't make me correct because I'm Jewish. What I'm saying is Christianity teaches that Jesus is god. It also teaches that he was a man. It also teaches that he claimed he was god and man. Judaism doesn't recognize Jesus as our anything. So he can't possible be our "god". It is idolatry for us to accept him as a god.

I didn't make any comments about which god Muslims believe in so..that's pretty much pointless. But I'm fully aware of what they believe about Isa (or as you call him Jesus). They don't believe he was a god now do they ? NOPE.

And yes, I've been to many Christian churches and christian ceremonies during my research. I've also been to a few mosques, sat in on a Wiccan ceremony, as well as other religious services including doing study with Jehovah's Witnesses and I have practiced religious Apologetics for more than 10 years. I minored in Comparative Religion in college. You ever go to any Jewish services or ceremonies ?

I'm done, I believe that all three religions have the same God, simple as that.
Hey you can believe whateve you want..I'm just telling you as someone that practices Judaism and has ALL her life that no.. Jesus is NOT our god. Period. You can like it or not. And your BF can feel whatever way he likes about it.

Last edited by *Marah*; 11-20-2011 at 12:45 PM.

So weird that the author's acquaintance felt the need to push his interpretation of his religious doctrine on the author. I just cannot read that article without getting angry that people use the teachings of a revolutionary Jewish Rabbi (Jesus) who talked mostly about love and acceptance and disposing of nonsensical rules (like eating kosher etc) to subjugate women and tell women in the modern era what they can and cannot do.
Paul was a man, a man of his time. Not God.
Originally Posted by shainala
Now how the heck you goin' just rip Kashrut Law calling it "nonsensical" and then try to claim Jesus as a "revolutionary Rabbi" ? If that ain't a slap in the face for Jews all over the world that keep kosher..um including JESUS if you really believe he was JEWish. Jesus grew up as a Jewish boy according to the NT. So oh yeah..he kept Kosher. He better had or he would have got chin checked! And I triple guarantee you he didn't think it was "nonsensical" not even as an adult. He would never defile himself in such a manner nor disrespect his Father in Heaven being a Jewish man.

And no..where and I do mean NO WHERE in the NT does Jesus say ANYWHERE that keeping Kosher should be "disposed of". And if he did.. he wasn't Jewish at all..nor was he a "rabbi" so your point is blow to hell (pun intended)... But since we are going with "he was".. I'm telling you he did no such a thing.

So please.. I beg you to tell me you are not trying to use Matthew 12 to say Jesus taught any such a thing about disposing of keeping kosher. Please tell me. And for the record Jesus spent a good time chin checking folks too for their foolishness and works of inquity. He wasn't all about just "love this and love that".
And yeah..I gotta chip on my shoulder about the very notion that eating kosher is nonsensical for a JEW!

Girl Bye!
Originally Posted by *Marah*
Wow. I'm going to ask you to go back and read what I said before you jump down my throat and "girl bye" me. And now you're an authority on what a Jew and a Rabbi is? Pulease.
Raised reform, practicing reconstructionist, and I don't think your tone was called for. There are a lot of Jews that don't believe that keeping Kosher was a dictate from God, and you're saying they are not real Jews because they disagree with you?
Sounds like you come from the same school of thought as the man who said big-chopping is against the bible. Preach your orthodoxy to someone else.
Originally Posted by shainala

I wasn't raised Reform. I was raised Conservative but my parents feelings over time leaned more Reform but we never attended a Reform congregation. I don't practice Reconstuctionist Judaism..nor would I ever. I attended a Reform synagogue for a brief time and it wasn't for me because my heart's always been Conservative. I now attend an Egalitarian Conservative Synagogue.

And yeah.. I would say not only am I an expert on what a Jew and a rabbi is.. I'm entitled to tell YOU what it is. And I think my tone is more than called for when you trash the idea of keeping kosher referring to it as "nonsensical" but then try to claim Jesus was a "revolutionary Jewish rabbi". So yeah Girl Bye on that.

If you knew anything about Judaism you wouldn't ask me any silly question like because a Jew doesn't agree with me I don't think they are real Jews. Any Jew will tell you if someone is born Jewish.. they are Jewish. Doesn't matter what opinions they have or don't have that agree with the majority.

If I came from the school of thought as the man that preached against Big Chopping I wouldn't have given exegesis on the text showing he was incorrect. I didn't see you come in here and give any exegesis on it. And if you want to get bent about me defending my OWN religion..that's your problem.

Last edited by *Marah*; 11-20-2011 at 12:58 PM.

Now how the heck you goin' just rip Kashrut Law calling it "nonsensical" and then try to claim Jesus as a "revolutionary Rabbi" ? If that ain't a slap in the face for Jews all over the world that keep kosher..um including JESUS if you really believe he was JEWish. Jesus grew up as a Jewish boy according to the NT. So oh yeah..he kept Kosher. He better had or he would have got chin checked! And I triple guarantee you he didn't think it was "nonsensical" not even as an adult. He would never defile himself in such a manner nor disrespect his Father in Heaven being a Jewish man.

And no..where and I do mean NO WHERE in the NT does Jesus say ANYWHERE that keeping Kosher should be "disposed of". And if he did.. he wasn't Jewish at all..nor was he a "rabbi" so your point is blow to hell (pun intended)... But since we are going with "he was".. I'm telling you he did no such a thing.

So please.. I beg you to tell me you are not trying to use Matthew 12 to say Jesus taught any such a thing about disposing of keeping kosher. Please tell me. And for the record Jesus spent a good time chin checking folks too for their foolishness and works of inquity. He wasn't all about just "love this and love that".
And yeah..I gotta chip on my shoulder about the very notion that eating kosher is nonsensical for a JEW!

Girl Bye!
Originally Posted by *Marah*
Wow. I'm going to ask you to go back and read what I said before you jump down my throat and "girl bye" me. And now you're an authority on what a Jew and a Rabbi is? Pulease.
Raised reform, practicing reconstructionist, and I don't think your tone was called for. There are a lot of Jews that don't believe that keeping Kosher was a dictate from God, and you're saying they are not real Jews because they disagree with you?
Sounds like you come from the same school of thought as the man who said big-chopping is against the bible. Preach your orthodoxy to someone else.
Originally Posted by shainala

I wasn't raised Reform. I was raised Conservative but my parents feelings over time leaned more Reform but we never attended a Reform congregation. I don't practice Reconstuctionist Judaism..nor would I ever. I attended a Reform synagogue for a brief time and it wasn't for me because my heart's always been Conservative. I now attend an Egalitarian Conservative Synagogue.

And yeah.. I would say not only am I an expert on what a Jew and a rabbi is.. I'm entitled to tell YOU what it is. And I think my tone is more than called for when you trash the idea of keeping kosher referring to it as "nonsensical" but then try to claim Jesus was a "revolutionary Jewish rabbi". So yeah Girl Bye on that.

If you knew anything about Judaism you wouldn't ask me any silly question like because a Jew doesn't agree with me I don't think they are real Jews. Any Jew will tell you if someone is born Jewish.. they are Jewish. Doesn't matter what opinions they have or don't have that agree with the majority.

If I came from the school of thought as the man that preached against Big Chopping I wouldn't have given exegesis on the text showing he was incorrect. I didn't see you come in here and give any exegesis on it. And if you want to get bent about me defending my OWN religion..that's your problem.
Originally Posted by *Marah*
You don't speak for all Jews. Jews have a lot of different opinions and you should learn to respect the opinions of others. I wasn't trashing keeping Kosher. I was saying that historical records show that Jesus challenged the religious hierarchy in his by questioning rabbinical doctrine. I'm sorry sister, I'm a Jew, and You are not The Divine, so you cannot tell me what to do, or what a Jew should of shouldn't do, or who counts as a Jew or who doesn't.
Calm down.
You don't speak for all Jews. Jews have a lot of different opinions and you should learn to respect the opinions of others. I wasn't trashing keeping Kosher. I was saying that historical records show that Jesus challenged the religious hierarchy in his by questioning rabbinical doctrine. I'm sorry sister, I'm a Jew, and You are not The Divine, so you cannot tell me what to do, or what a Jew should of shouldn't do, or who counts as a Jew or who doesn't.
Calm down.
Originally Posted by shainala
No. No one Jew can speak for all Jews. No one said that or implied it. All I'm saying is the Jews that practice Judaism do not believe Jesus was a god. So if Christianity teaches he is a god (which it does) he couldn't possibly be OUR god (those of us Jews that practice Judaism). And if you are a Jew (that practices Judaism)..then you know that and I'm not sure why you as a practicing Jew would ever pretend or say other wise unless of course you converted to Christianity or some other religion that recognizes him as god that teaches he was some Jewish rabbi that abolished or disposed of Kashrut Law. And if you did convert to another religion..that's fine. You have a right to choose whichever religion you wish. Doesn't mean suddenly you aren't culturally Jewish if you were born to a Jewish family.

And sure.. I can say who counts as a Jew and who doesn't.. just like you can. According to Halacha we have certain regulations on who is a Jew. And well you say you are Jewish..then you know that so I'm not saying anything that should be new data for you or that should offend you as a Jewish person.

I appreciate you calling me "sister". If you are Jewish, I especially appreciate it. But you as a Jew then you know that saying.. "You get 2 Jews in a room..you got 3 opinions." I'm calm. But surely you can understand my frustration when someone says Jesus taught Kashrut Law is nonsensical. He really didn't do that at all. He never ever disrespected Kashrut Law in any way if those passages are read with understanding. And frankly, that is me actually DEFENDING Jesus and I don't even believe he was a god nor am I Christian.

I'm not trying to be disrespectful (I was just frustrated at what you stated about Kashrut Law) and I do apologize if my tone was improper (I will try to curb it more) toward you in the future. I do respect the opinions of others but I certainly have a right to challenge those opinions if I don't agree with them. My challenge of an opinion doesn't mean I don't respect the rights of another to have them.

Last edited by *Marah*; 11-20-2011 at 01:38 PM.

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