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So I believe the hotel I stayed in was a hotel and also a love motel. The biggest hint was the 2 condoms in a dish, next to the bed.
Originally Posted by gagirl09
Lol. Was it clean? I asked because in America, if you found a love motel, it would probably not be such a nice place, but more on the seedy side.

Happy New Year everyone!!!

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Originally Posted by multicultcurly
Yes it was very clean. Fluffy sheets and pillows along with breakfast in the morning.
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My issue with the Nina Simone casting, was her skin tone and African features was a huge part of her story, my understanding is some of her songs are even about her struggles as a dark skinned, kinky haired, wide nosed black woman in white racist society. If that is the case, the casting just doesn't make sense, nina's look was a huge part of her life and story.

Not to mention the lengths the are going to , prosthetic facial features and face paint just so she can look the part, seem so ridiculous when you think about how they could have just chosen someone with those features.



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Originally Posted by naturaldoll
You make a good point. I didn't think about her dark skin being part of her story that goes beyond her struggle as a black woman.
I have a different perspective. I have notice many comments on the Internet and not just on this Zoe situation where it seems all of a sudden we have degrees of "blackness".
Originally Posted by adthomas
This thing is looooong. I'll break it up into 2 posts:

There are varying degrees of "blackness", where "blackness" in US is a reflection of quantifiable ancestral African DNA studies, plus "blackness" in terms of what larger society deems socio-political "blackness". IMO Most people who've been given preferential treatment while allegedly just being "black" either are known to have a lot of Euro ancestry, or are heavily suspected of having it based on how much their phenotypes depart from what is more noticeably AA (noteably West African features, due the high % of WAs who were enslaved here). What's considered "black" looking is still subjective, but it's hard not to notice that people with more Euro ancestry and/or anglicized features (in almost any country, really) get preferential treatment over those w/darker skin and the wider features assoc. w/West Africa. Of course a sinister throwback example of this here can be traced back to a group of white savages and the whole field slave versus house slave mess they orchestrated.

Folks who look like Lisa Bonet or Mariah or Wentworth are still over-valued / overly-represented as what's "black" and it's not right. I have a niece who's less than 1/4 white, has probably never experienced racial discrimination and had an advantaged upbringing. She has applied to Ivy League schools as a "black" person. This is not her normal chosen ID. She normally doesn't ID as black, or anything else. My sis told me about it and asked my thoughts. Told her I don't like it, even for me or my sister, let alone my niece, because my feeling is affirm. action programs weren't created to benefit those who already have signif. "racial" and economic advantages (again, not saying we haven't suffered some form of prejudice), and my niece has both in spades. She may have race-related struggles I'm unaware of, yes, but everything in me says … no, not really. Of course it's her decision, not mine and she will and should ID how she wants. So I backed off pretty quickly.

Kind of like the paper bag test only used in reverse. On one hand there are complaints about half black people saying they are not black like they are denying their heritage and then complaints when half black people say they are black because they are "stealing" black roles. Ridiculous. If Zoe had at some point stated she did not consider herself black then played the role of someone like Nina who was heavily involved in the Civil Rights movement I would see why people might have a problem with it but she hasn't. I think there is a general backlash against not only half black people but also people who are not biracial but not dark skin.
Right! I know the company I keep and at times … It annoys the crap out of me when someone biracial (b/w) denies having any African ancestry. Shoo. It'd be one thing if that insecurity and racism just affected her/him, but that delusional BS tends to get projected onto everyone else too. And I write that type of BR off because even though we all know biracials suffer discrimination, black-denying BRs have too much allegiance to white supremacist people and culture IMO. They aren't trust-worthy or stable people. You can sometimes catch them saying "n****r" the way the KKK says it, only you have to remind them they are what they think they're describing lol. I believe we all can be prejudiced and sincerely changing it takes a life time of mindful, conscious effort ... But how do you do that if you can't even manage to be honest about who you are - if you can't manage to honor your own blackness and your African ancestors who withstood so many challenges so your Halfrican a$$ could even exist?
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2nd post ...

Since when is dark skin a prerequisite for being black..People on Net say light skin people are misrepresenting what black people look like. There is no certain way all blacks look especially Americans and if you are looking for black Americans with no white Ancestry good luckwith that. Zoe look to me loks like any other sista to on the block.Most of my relatives are several shades lighter than her. My mom has hazel eyes and our white ancestors are the kind that died in the Civil War. No recent mix. Freaking Mary J. Blidge was the original cast person and I have never seen her without blonde weave yet her "blackness " isn't questioned. Diana Ross was a dark woman who played a light Billie Holiday, Is anyone offended?
Originally Posted by adthomas
I agree, not always dark skin. But my observation is: if the actress, model, politician, etc. in question is comparatively dark, generally that person has noticeably narrow features that go against what's usually seen in the West African population of US citizens. (Again, West African ancestry being most common w/in the AA population.) I just see a lot of situations where it's an obvious – not just borderline – case of middling or majority non-African features and/or light skin going on. Again, something similar is seen in media all across the globe, where Euro features and/or lighter skin = more political currency and higher social regard, and therefore is a dominant image in the media. It's a no-win for everyone. It's crap for those unlucky enough to not be privileged. And then ppl are restless because even those deemed "worthy" by whatever racial or color measure, are also resented. And since privilege isn't something that's earned I don't see it as good for a person's esteem ultimately. Also, that privilege isn't always fluid. It still doesn't necessarily protect the "honored" from being discriminated against in some alternate context (even for the "whitest of whites").

Lisa Bonet is half white so why is it she can portray the daughter of two black parents. I guess Lisa didn't have a problem with it and they had Rudy Vanessa as her sisters. I think the truth is black people can be as diverse looking as the Huxtable kids. If Viola Davis were picked to play Lena Horn I guarantee no one would complain she was too black or too ugly because that's not pc but let's say to say Zoe she is too light too pretty.
I believe Lisa was “able” - if not singled out - to play the daughter because – once again - lighter skin and more Euro features attract a larger tv audience which equates with higher profits. I like Lisa but I really thought she was a stretch as their kid. I also notice that a lot of time with “black tv programming” (especially comedy) you often see lighter and “whiter” women playing opposite their male husbands and boyfriends. It's like that in most movies too, I think, and not just with blacks, with other minority pairings. And there are entire tv shows where you'd think they ran the paper bag test as part of their hiring process. It's pukalicious. It's a slap in the face to viewers who support a show or pay for a movie but aren't being represented most of the time. It reminds me of how I sometimes get irritated as a female viewer because I still see so many females actors used as props in movies, just there to feed a bunch of questions to the male lead to make him look clever and powerful.

Yeah, black people are diverse and one day I hope the talent and beauty of darker, more obviously African folks will be granted equal air time and equal everything. From my limited perspective, there's been progress on this but just not fast enough. This party has to be for all of us or we all suffer in some way IMO. Something's missing from the recipe. There should be more Violas. I can't relate to any putz who would think she's ugly The woman is lovely, especially with her natural hair.

MCC, responding w/in a day or two to a couple things you said. Things have been crazy busy – what a way to start the New Year ;
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This is a really interesting discussion.

I think I understand in this particular casting but just didn't like singling someone out who identifies as same race as unqualified for a role just based "only" on complexion if all else being equal like ability, hard working. Isn't that becoming what we are opposed to? I would feel the same way if a dark skin person was treated like that. Shouldn't matter. look how the parents on Everbody Loves Raymond who are dark haired olive tone ended up with those lillie white blonde kids. I see casting like that often with white people on Lifetime movies. My opinion I'm sure is against the grain but I don't see a huge issue of colorism against darker skin nowadays. Most women I know would step on Shemar Moore to get to take a Lance Gross (yummy). my fam is as diverse looking as the Huxtables. Not saying my experience is everyone's but I wonder sometimes if this is overblown or perhaps the past has made us oversensitive . I was at a family gathering last week and relatives were teasing the ones who "looked white that their mother didn't leave them in the oven long enough." It was all in fun. We all laughed.
. I always thought Diana Ross was stunningly beautiful. My mom had her album and I would stare at the pic wishing I looked like her. Her daughter the actress on the other hand who is biracial and light I frankly think to be quite on the homely side. Of course beaty is subjective. I also think there is somewhat flawed view of West African features. I am not 100% WA but this little girl is a Fulani and could be my twin as a child except her hair is lighter. I found a lot of Fulanis with similar features. So even without DNA I have decided I'm Fulani too.
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That reminds me. I loved the first mom on Fresh Prince who was a wonderful actress and then they replaced her with a Hillary looking broad who sucked.
RIP James Avery.
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That reminds me. I loved the first mom on Fresh Prince who was a wonderful actress and then they replaced her with a Hillary looking broad who sucked.
RIP James Avery.
Originally Posted by adthomas
Funny thing I was going to mention Fresh Prince.

I thought the last Vivian Banks was was darker and a better mother-like figure in her acting.

The only people who commented on it around me where non-White.
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I'm with ADT. You can look at my immediate family and my siblings and I look like the ombre effect: my 19 yo brother is as dark as Wesley Snipes, I'm light brown, and my 13 yo sister and 3yo brother are white. My family is very diverse, including German, African, Irish, Scottish and Native American ancestry.

TRUST me, when people of other races look at a group of "black" people, they see us all the same. I've been told I look "just like" a dark skinned friend of mine. We have NOTHING in common other than age or gender. This skin division is purely within our own minds and the reason why it's not represented fairly in the media is because it's what WE gravitate towards.

Before you guys get mad, let me explain. How many comments have you read with darker skinned woman exclaiming how it's "better" or "easier" to have lighter skin, looser curls, more European features, etc.? How many times have you heard black men say they'll only date "light-skinned" women? How many of our parents or older relatives have told us we have to have straight hair to be successful/professional/get a man/etc.? WE create the division, WE display the preference, and companies simply play on that to make the most money. The way to get that to change is to choose to ignore the pedestal that European features have been put on and to show preference for something else.

Just my opinion, but honestly at the end of the day, companies are out to make money. They don't give a da*n what our emotional hang-ups are; they're going to show us what we want to see.
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@AdT- I always thought it was odd that all of the kids on Everybody Loves Raymond had such light hair and skin, when the parents and Robert had medium to olive skin and dark hair. It wasn't too realistic. I have actually seen other people, usually white, point that out too.

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Lol another thing that's funny to me is that no one had a problem with Zoe playing a tall blue alien with a tail.. She still got the part across effectively, no?
This is a really interesting discussion.

I think I understand in this particular casting but just didn't like singling someone out who identifies as same race as unqualified for a role just based "only" on complexion if all else being equal like ability, hard working. Isn't that becoming what we are opposed to? I would feel the same way if a dark skin person was treated like that. Shouldn't matter. look how the parents on Everbody Loves Raymond who are dark haired olive tone ended up with those lillie white blonde kids. I see casting like that often with white people on Lifetime movies. My opinion I'm sure is against the grain but I don't see a huge issue of colorism against darker skin nowadays. Most women I know would step on Shemar Moore to get to take a Lance Gross (yummy). my fam is as diverse looking as the Huxtables. Not saying my experience is everyone's but I wonder sometimes if this is overblown or perhaps the past has made us oversensitive . I was at a family gathering last week and relatives were teasing the ones who "looked white that their mother didn't leave them in the oven long enough." It was all in fun. We all laughed.
. I always thought Diana Ross was stunningly beautiful. My mom had her album and I would stare at the pic wishing I looked like her. Her daughter the actress on the other hand who is biracial and light I frankly think to be quite on the homely side. Of course beaty is subjective. I also think there is somewhat flawed view of West African features. I am not 100% WA but this little girl is a Fulani and could be my twin as a child except her hair is lighter. I found a lot of Fulanis with similar features. So even without DNA I have decided I'm Fulani too.
Originally Posted by adthomas
That sounds great and I hope things have changed that much. My black relatives, friends and acquaintances tell me there's still way too much of a problem. Well I realize we all have different experiences and naturally there are exceptions to every rule

I always thought Diana was gorgeous too. But Tracee? Oy gevalt. I honestly can't look at her w/out feeling a slight tinge of hostility - like God was on a drinking bender when he drew up the blue print for her face (I know, sounds mean). But those eyes. Ugh. Buggy and too close together, with a nose that's too long for her face. It just dips right on down, practically touching her upper lip. I hear folks talking about she's pretty and I really just don't get it. And how about Pryor's daughter, eh?
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TRUST me, when people of other races look at a group of "black" people, they see us all the same. I've been told I look "just like" a dark skinned friend of mine. We have NOTHING in common other than age or gender. This skin division is purely within our own minds and the reason why it's not represented fairly in the media is because it's what WE gravitate towards.
Originally Posted by lovebonita
I agree with you that there's a threshold point at which how "black" you are or appear no longer matters in the eyes of most people. You just "look black". Like once a person is dark enough, and/or has certain facial characteristics ... and especially when speaking ebonics.

But there is a world of "gray" out there too that doesn't get talked about so much. You know, the folks who have black ancestry but also so much Euro ancestry and/or looks that you first thought they were Arab or Italian or Greek or some version of white. Many of us are seen as anything from white/Jewish to Arab (which of course IS mixed anyhow) to East Asian . Because of our ambiguity, we lead a very different existence from those who are treated as "black". We do have our own story. I've had idiots say racist things, clearly thinking if I was "one of them". I've had neo-Nazis hit on me. Of course part-black/part-white folks can and often do suffer prejudice too, often of an unpredictable kind. Like for me: flying while Arab.
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Last edited by Korkscrew; 01-03-2014 at 05:49 PM.
This is a really interesting discussion.

I think I understand in this particular casting but just didn't like singling someone out who identifies as same race as unqualified for a role just based "only" on complexion if all else being equal like ability, hard working. Isn't that becoming what we are opposed to? I would feel the same way if a dark skin person was treated like that. Shouldn't matter. look how the parents on Everbody Loves Raymond who are dark haired olive tone ended up with those lillie white blonde kids. I see casting like that often with white people on Lifetime movies. My opinion I'm sure is against the grain but I don't see a huge issue of colorism against darker skin nowadays. Most women I know would step on Shemar Moore to get to take a Lance Gross (yummy). my fam is as diverse looking as the Huxtables. Not saying my experience is everyone's but I wonder sometimes if this is overblown or perhaps the past has made us oversensitive . I was at a family gathering last week and relatives were teasing the ones who "looked white that their mother didn't leave them in the oven long enough." It was all in fun. We all laughed.
. I always thought Diana Ross was stunningly beautiful. My mom had her album and I would stare at the pic wishing I looked like her. Her daughter the actress on the other hand who is biracial and light I frankly think to be quite on the homely side. Of course beaty is subjective. I also think there is somewhat flawed view of West African features. I am not 100% WA but this little girl is a Fulani and could be my twin as a child except her hair is lighter. I found a lot of Fulanis with similar features. So even without DNA I have decided I'm Fulani too.
Originally Posted by adthomas
That sounds great and I hope things have changed that much. My black relatives, friends and acquaintances tell me there's still way too much of a problem. Well I realize we all have different experiences and naturally there are exceptions to every rule

I always thought Diana was gorgeous too. But Tracee? Oy gevalt. I honestly can't look at her w/out feeling a slight tinge of hostility - like God was on a drinking bender when he drew up the blue print for her face (I know, sounds mean). But those eyes. Ugh. Buggy and too close together, with a nose that's too long for her face. It just dips right on down, practically touching her upper lip. I hear folks talking about she's pretty and I really just don't get it. And how about Pryor's daughter, eh?
Originally Posted by Korkscrew
Maybe it's mean but it's true. My uncle married a bugeyed woman and had bugeyed babies. Not cute kids. Bless their hearts (that is what Southerners say after they talk bad about somebody to make it okay).
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*giggling uncontrollably*... bug eyed babies... *smh*... that post completely took me off guard.
I truly have not experienced it myself either, BUT I don't think it's overblown. I aint believin' that even 50% of black men would choose Alek Wek or Grace Jones over Tyra Banks and Halle Berry ...or even that the majority of black women would choose to be dark skin over light if given the choice. We need not even compare tanning oil sales to Carowhite and Nadinola skin lightening cream sales amongst black people..light skin or dark skin.

What annoys me is people who are not being persecuted en masse for their complexion, but have this undeserved persecution complex. It's comparable to people with relaxed hair, or those that wear weave, claiming that they are facing a backlash from the natural hair community for relaxing their hair knowing good and darn well that the looks of a peruvian 26 inch Kim K hair style will always be seen as "cuter" in our community than a 4c afro puff. I'm not talking about the anonymous poster on nappturality that e-dragged you for texturizing or that chick up the block that calls you high-yella. That is not something that should be trivialized but is is not the dominant perception....and for people who think it is...just stoppppp. ...you are not at the bottom of the preferential totem pole, and the worse part of it all is .....you know it.There isn't a worldwide or community wide preference towards your homegirl with ebony skin and a 4b hair type, and we ALL know this. It's just intellectually dishonest. We dont need stats or even a glimpse into a history book to know the views of our own community beyond our personal experience.


We all have our own set of personal experiences and preferences but personal experiences are by definition limited.

Every ethnic community has this weird preference for light skin though, so the black community is not the only one......

Tracee is not cute. I thought it was the fact that she only wore a puff for about a gagillion years, but it has to be the bugg eyed thin lip effect she has.
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Last edited by Lovemenappy; 01-03-2014 at 04:46 AM.
The ethnic preference for lighter skin females is likely similar to the White preference of blonde females.

Lightness is linked to being childlike as quite a lot of females get darker as they get older.
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My dog died suddenly. I am so devastated heart broken. I just can't. It kills me absolutely kills me that I wasn't there that she didn't get to see my face one more time.
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I am very sorry that is always tough, especially if you were close. I hope you have some pictures or something in memory.

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My dog died suddenly. I am so devastated heart broken. I just can't. It kills me absolutely kills me that I wasn't there that she didn't get to see my face one more time.
Originally Posted by gagirl09
Sorry . I know she knew how much you loved her.
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I truly have not experienced it myself either, BUT I don't think it's overblown. I aint believin' that even 50% of black men would choose Alek Wek or Grace Jones over Tyra Banks and Halle Berry ...or even that the majority of black women would choose to be dark skin over light if given the choice. We need not even compare tanning oil sales to Carowhite and Nadinola skin lightening cream sales amongst black people..light skin or dark skin.

What annoys me is people who are not being persecuted en masse for their complexion, but have this undeserved persecution complex. It's comparable to people with relaxed hair, or those that wear weave, claiming that they are facing a backlash from the natural hair community for relaxing their hair knowing good and darn well that the looks of a peruvian 26 inch Kim K hair style will always be seen as "cuter" in our community than a 4c afro puff. I'm not talking about the anonymous poster on nappturality that e-dragged you for texturizing or that chick up the block that calls you high-yella. That is not something that should be trivialized but is is not the dominant perception....and for people who think it is...just stoppppp. ...you are not at the bottom of the preferential totem pole, and the worse part of it all is .....you know it.There isn't a worldwide or community wide preference towards your homegirl with ebony skin and a 4b hair type, and we ALL know this. It's just intellectually dishonest. We dont need stats or even a glimpse into a history book to know the views of our own community beyond our personal experience.


We all have our own set of personal experiences and preferences but personal experiences are by definition limited.

Every ethnic community has this weird preference for light skin though, so the black community is not the only one......

Tracee is not cute. I thought it was the fact that she only wore a puff for about a gagillion years, but it has to be the bugg eyed thin lip effect she has.
Originally Posted by Lovemenappy
I think this is a double issue of 1) within people with WA ancestry and 2) those without.
Like Lovebonita said I don't think most white people see beyond black when they look at us or even notice the "variations". I have lighter skin and it hasn't sheltered me from people making racist comments to my face or being asked questions like I'm the spokesperson for black people. It's all the same to them if they can tell you have some black in there. I have a coworker who is much darker, maybe30 pounds heavier, and looks NOTHING like me yet I am called her name so much I stopped even correcting most of the time. Why did they say "all black people look alike" and not add light or dark to it.

As far as within I can say for most people their experiences are their truth and reality. My truth is that most black women I know have told me they are more attracted to dark skin men. I see no shortage of dark skin men in Hollywood. The saying is light skin bros re out of style.
. Granted I haven't had this kind of convo with black men but I will now.
This is interesting article I found.

Diasporan Darlings » Don’t Get It Twisted, It’s Not “Just Hair”
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