Products I Dream About...

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  • 1 Post By coilynapp
  • 3 Post By Lovemenappy
  • 1 Post By Rimi
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  • 1 Post By Cerendipity
  • 1 Post By Naturalista
  • 1 Post By Naturalista

So I thought I would start a thread for products we wish where available or if they are available that we wish were available from certain indie companies or retailers.

I guess this could be considered a gentle nudge to our favorite indie companies or just ideas that we may not have the time and/or expertise to see to fruition. I don't think a thread like this exists, but if it does please point me in the right direction!


Pitch:
Lately I have been thinking about conditioner bars...and now I am wondering if our favorite indie companies would be open to creating conditioner bar options for the conditioners we love (or if they like, introducing a new product). It would solve many problems: not having to decant while traveling thereby avoiding contamination during the decant process (packaging and preservatives work together to maintain the integrity of products - some better than others); increasing the self-life of the product as it is now anhydrous, enabling consumers to choose the proportion of actual conditioner they would like to make (but this could be problematic if in converting the bar to a creamy mixture more is made than wanted - then a preservative or refrigeration is necessary - exact instructions would be needed for different amounts); creating a multi-use product (the ratio of water to conditioner bar would determine the use, be it deep conditioner, rinse-out conditioner, detangler spray, or leave-in - but preservatives would enter here and most are only water soluble), decreasing the company’s carbon footprint through less plastic use and more importantly (to the company at least) less input and shipping costs.

Limitations:
On top of preservatives, there would also be the question of ph when converting the bar to creamy conditioner or other. Most ph adjusters are water solutions and adding the adjuster in powder form could make the bar gritty or worse, ineffective; if the ph adjuster is unevenly distributed throughout the bar then the results would be inconsistent (but maybe adding the ph solution and then curing the bars would work - might also work for extracts). Also, some consumers are just not open to products with any DIY aspects (even though they could use the bar as is).

Tag!:
Darcy's Botanicals, Hairveda (ahem, the Acai Berry Phyto has a self-life of 6 months!), Curl Junkie
James Baldwin
A Talk To Teachers
[...]
one of the paradoxes of education [is] that precisely at the point when you begin to develop a conscience, you must find yourself at war with your society. It is your responsibility to change society
[...]

There are lots of conditioner bars on etsy. Check it out! Not a novel idea at all.

You don't need to convert a conditioner bar to a creamy mixture. You just use as is and it becomes creamy like you used a liquid conditioner.
There are lots of conditioner bars on etsy. Check it out! Not a novel idea at all.

You don't need to convert a conditioner bar to a creamy mixture. You just use as is and it becomes creamy like you used a liquid conditioner.
Originally Posted by coilynapp
I saw some of the etsy conditioner bars. I would rather use one from the vendors above though. I know the effect would be consistent with the regular conditioner on my hair.

Also, CP have you seen any of the bars on etsy with some sort of ph adjuster (I am wondering if that is even possible)? Cationic emulsifiers do not have a ph, right?
James Baldwin
A Talk To Teachers
[...]
one of the paradoxes of education [is] that precisely at the point when you begin to develop a conscience, you must find yourself at war with your society. It is your responsibility to change society
[...]

Actually, the bars on etsy will work well for our hair. They are made with the same ingredients (although some use 'cones in them--I don't know how many don't).

Cationics absolutely have a pH (in solution) and one needs to formulate to the correct pH of hair. Some conditioners (liquid) don't have pH adjusters so I'm assuming they are in the correct pH range.

It's very possible to adjust the pH of conditioner bars. You have to know what you are doing and know how much to add.
cocodej likes this.
You know that would be a cool idea, there aren't many conditioner bars marketed for afro curly hair, HOWEVER, for cost reasons I can see why they havent. Making a conditioner bar is expensive and I would think a lot of companies would be afraid of preservation issues. A conditioner bar is basically a very very concentrated chunk of conditioner. Your average indie conditioner contains about 5-10% btms. That ranges from leave in condtiioners to deep conditioners. A conditioner BAR can be up to 60% btms by itself easily. They could I suppose use stearic acid to keep the bar hard instead of having to use such a large percentage of conditioning waxes but that would just make the product draggy. Conditioner bars are also constantly in water. Yes, a consumer could break a piece off an use that on their hair instead, BUT what if they dont use all of it up in one wash? Chances are theyll try to reuse it (bc who really wants to throw money down the drain,,,,no pun intended) anyway and voila youre introducing possible bacteria, mold issues. Now I know you can use a preservative for a condtiioner bar, but as a business...keeping in mind the fact that the entire product would be drenched in water...I would be afraid to sell a product like that.

Then, and from a businesses point of view, a conditioner bar lasts.....for ever. Seriously. You can get at best maybe 10 uses out of a bottled 8 oz conditioner....with a conditioner BAR, because its so concentrated, you can get easily double that amount. So a customer could get more usage out of it (thus not having to rebuy for a longer period of time), the business would be using a higher concentration of ingredients (expense), and IMHO most people are accustomed to conditioner bars being cheap even though they use a higher concentration of ingredients so the amount they could sell the product for would probably be limited (anywhere from $5-$14 maybe without people calling it overpriced, even though....again...it will last longer and cost the business more to produce, with more risks on their end).

Why don't you make your own conditioner bar? Theyre fun to make, and its easy to customize them without having to deal with emulsifying issues. I make a lot for myself to the point where I rarely use botttled conditioner. I have deep conditioner bars, co wash conditioner bars, and even leave in conditioner bars. You should get a bit of btms and cetyl alcohol and give it a go.


Here's a simple recipe that you can use that I tried when I first started making mine. Theres no exact science and you can use an ice cube mold or any other mold you have lying around.


60% BTMS
10% cetyl alcohol
10% shea butter
20% oil of choice


Heat it all up together, and let is solidify in a mold. You can add fragrance if you want as well. Since I make these myself...a cool trick later if I need a moisture spray it Ill cut a chunk of the conditioner bar off and add it to some distilled water and shake the bottle well, and it quickly makes a detangling and moisturising curl refresher. You would need a preservative for this really but I suppose if you are okay with making the spray in small amounts it would be okay.

Also you could try lactic acid with regard to ph if you are concerned about that.
coilynapp, Jo Somebody and cocodej like this.

Last edited by Lovemenappy; 07-23-2012 at 12:49 PM.
Yep! Cost is an issue.
[...] I make a lot for myself to the point where I rarely use botttled conditioner. I have deep conditioner bars, co wash conditioner bars, and even leave in conditioner bars. [...]

Also you could try lactic acid with regard to ph if you are concerned about that.
Originally Posted by Lovemenappy
WOW, thanks lady! With the conditioner bars that you have made, how did you test the ph? Have you ever used a ph adjuster?

Also, could the increase in emulsifier used compensate for other areas where the company would save? Like bottling, filtration services for water used in making regular conditioners, etc...just thinking out loud.
James Baldwin
A Talk To Teachers
[...]
one of the paradoxes of education [is] that precisely at the point when you begin to develop a conscience, you must find yourself at war with your society. It is your responsibility to change society
[...]

[...] I make a lot for myself to the point where I rarely use botttled conditioner. I have deep conditioner bars, co wash conditioner bars, and even leave in conditioner bars. [...]

Also you could try lactic acid with regard to ph if you are concerned about that.
Originally Posted by Lovemenappy
WOW, thanks lady! With the conditioner bars that you have made, how did you test the ph? Have you ever used a ph adjuster?

Also, could the increase in emulsifier used compensate for other areas where the company would save? Like bottling, filtration services for water used in making regular conditioners, etc...just thinking out loud.
Originally Posted by cocodej
The average 5 pound of BTMS is around $44. If a business were to make 100 ounces of conditioner bar base at 60% of the actual product being BTMS they would be using 60 ounces of BTMS. Theyd be using almost 5 pounds of BTMS spending about $40 just to make 60% of the product. If they sold the bars at 5 ounces each, they would end up only making 20 bars. Comparatively a business could make a deep conditoner using 10% btms making a 300 ounce batch of deep conditioner and still end up using a significantly less amount than if they made the conditioner bars even if the conditioner bars are made in a smaller amount.

I just dont think in the long run it would be cost efficient. Bottles arent an expense compared to BTMS especially considering the fact that around half to the majority of a conditioner is water. From my experience expenses are in this order: BTMS and conditioner emulsifiers, preservatives, oils and butters, labels, bottles, water in that order are what a businesses product making expenses are.

Now Im not saying that a business wouldnt do it, like DB MIGHT, as from what I can see, she charges a very fair (and to be honest low) amount for the quality ingredients that she uses. So maybe the large demand that she has would compensate for the expense? I dont know. But it would undoubtedly be expensive to produce. Cocoa butter isn't exactly cheap, but people use those to make bath melts, they MAY be able to use that as a main ingredient and less BTMS. Again, it'll be expensive but probably not as much. KBB might do it, since she uses pretty basic ingredients anyway.

Ive never fooled with the ph of my conditioners, for the most part that doesnt really matter to me, but I know that you may find better use with the lactic acid.

But I do think that you should try making your own, just because it's fairly simple and you can easily add whatever hair loving ingredients you like in the mixture without having to worry about emulsifying, separation, grit from unmelted conditioning flakes etc.
[...] I make a lot for myself to the point where I rarely use botttled conditioner. I have deep conditioner bars, co wash conditioner bars, and even leave in conditioner bars. [...]

Also you could try lactic acid with regard to ph if you are concerned about that.
Originally Posted by Lovemenappy
WOW, thanks lady! With the conditioner bars that you have made, how did you test the ph? Have you ever used a ph adjuster?

Also, could the increase in emulsifier used compensate for other areas where the company would save? Like bottling, filtration services for water used in making regular conditioners, etc...just thinking out loud.
Originally Posted by cocodej
The average 5 pound of BTMS is around $44. If a business were to make 100 ounces of conditioner bar base at 60% of the actual product being BTMS they would be using 60 ounces of BTMS. Theyd be using almost 5 pounds of BTMS spending about $40 just to make 60% of the product. If they sold the bars at 5 ounces each, they would end up only making 20 bars. Comparatively a business could make a deep conditoner using 10% btms making a 300 ounce batch of deep conditioner and still end up using a significantly less amount than if they made the conditioner bars even if the conditioner bars are made in a smaller amount.

I just dont think in the long run it would be cost efficient. Bottles arent an expense compared to BTMS especially considering the fact that around half to the majority of a conditioner is water. From my experience expenses are in this order: BTMS and conditioner emulsifiers, preservatives, oils and butters, labels, bottles, water in that order are what a businesses product making expenses are.

Now Im not saying that a business wouldnt do it, like DB MIGHT, as from what I can see, she charges a very fair (and to be honest low) amount for the quality ingredients that she uses. So maybe the large demand that she has would compensate for the expense? I dont know. But it would undoubtedly be expensive to produce. Cocoa butter isn't exactly cheap, but people use those to make bath melts, they MAY be able to use that as a main ingredient and less BTMS. Again, it'll be expensive but probably not as much. KBB might do it, since she uses pretty basic ingredients anyway.

Ive never fooled with the ph of my conditioners, for the most part that doesnt really matter to me, but I know that you may find better use with the lactic acid.

But I do think that you should try making your own, just because it's fairly simple and you can easily add whatever hair loving ingredients you like in the mixture without having to worry about emulsifying, separation, grit from unmelted conditioning flakes etc.
Originally Posted by Lovemenappy
Thanks for the ideas lady. I am just seeing myself attempting to some how figure out the ph of my product (under all of the ways that it could be used) and not really feeling it. I am sure other emulsifiers and thickeners could cut the amount of BTMS (if it is used at all) and still make a competitive product. Hopefully some will accept this mission, haha!
James Baldwin
A Talk To Teachers
[...]
one of the paradoxes of education [is] that precisely at the point when you begin to develop a conscience, you must find yourself at war with your society. It is your responsibility to change society
[...]

relatively natural moisturizing DT that i can also use as a leave-in/moisturizer. available at target, walgreens, CVS. less than $1.5/oz. no coconut oil, coconut milk, coconut butter, or heavy proteins. at least 16 oz.
19 y/o lifelong natural {4a-O ; spongy ; porous ; coarse ; dense ; ~MBL stretched}

products {'poo: TJTTT shampoo | RO: TJTTT Condish, YTC Condish | LI/style: TJTTT Condish, KCCC, AOHSR, homemade cocoa butter cream | DC: SMABS Purification Masque, condish + ayurvedic powder(s), AOHSR | PT: condish + NPF | oils: castor oil, grapeseed oil | other treatments: probiotics, tea rinses, AVG rinse/spritz, oil rinse | methods: LOCO, LCOGO}

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relatively natural moisturizing DT that i can also use as a leave-in/moisturizer. available at target, walgreens, CVS. less than $1.5/oz. no coconut oil, coconut milk, coconut butter, or heavy proteins. at least 16 oz.
Originally Posted by Rimi
Hmm... is there a reason why it must be 16 oz? I would have suggested Loreal's Eversleek Deep Conditioner, but it is only 5.
James Baldwin
A Talk To Teachers
[...]
one of the paradoxes of education [is] that precisely at the point when you begin to develop a conscience, you must find yourself at war with your society. It is your responsibility to change society
[...]

^^

i just want it to be long lasting. i don't' like having to repurchase products every two weeks
cocodej likes this.
19 y/o lifelong natural {4a-O ; spongy ; porous ; coarse ; dense ; ~MBL stretched}

products {'poo: TJTTT shampoo | RO: TJTTT Condish, YTC Condish | LI/style: TJTTT Condish, KCCC, AOHSR, homemade cocoa butter cream | DC: SMABS Purification Masque, condish + ayurvedic powder(s), AOHSR | PT: condish + NPF | oils: castor oil, grapeseed oil | other treatments: probiotics, tea rinses, AVG rinse/spritz, oil rinse | methods: LOCO, LCOGO}

CG-friendly Products List!
I'd want a product that makes my hair look like activator does...

But my hair is soft and fluffy, not WET and STICKY!!!!!!!


😜🍸Sent LIVE from my JPhone 4s using some CurlTalk app. 😜🍸

http://AfroCurls.wordpress.com
cocodej likes this.
FroZen
I want a gel that does what amla does for me , but with the weight of ecostyler


someone get to it, thank you very much in advance
cocodej likes this.
I want a gel that does what amla does for me , but with the weight of ecostyler


someone get to it, thank you very much in advance
Originally Posted by Cerendipity
I would def try this one.
James Baldwin
A Talk To Teachers
[...]
one of the paradoxes of education [is] that precisely at the point when you begin to develop a conscience, you must find yourself at war with your society. It is your responsibility to change society
[...]

I want a product that produces juicy, glossy twists without drying out my ends. Can someone make something that seals like Fort Knox???
cocodej likes this.
Type: 3c with some 4a highlighted
Low porosity thick/coarse texture. nml elasticity
Routine: No rules, just happy hair

Cleanse: CJDF, Prell, LUSH Curly Wurly, Bobeam
LI/RO:BBB, CJ, SheaM, HEHIS, Garnier, KBN Shealoe, CD Chocolat, Oyin HH
Styling: CJ, CR, UFD, Zuresh, Ecostyler,MJ
PT/DT: BBB, CJ, Lather, MJSSB

HUGE PJJJJJJJJ!!!!

]
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I want a product that produces juicy, glossy twists without drying out my ends. Can someone make something that seals like Fort Knox???
Originally Posted by Naturalista
Would you rather an oil or a butter, or a water based leave in that performs like a leave-in and sealer? How long would the juicy goodness need to last?
James Baldwin
A Talk To Teachers
[...]
one of the paradoxes of education [is] that precisely at the point when you begin to develop a conscience, you must find yourself at war with your society. It is your responsibility to change society
[...]

I want a product that produces juicy, glossy twists without drying out my ends. Can someone make something that seals like Fort Knox???
Originally Posted by Naturalista
Would you rather an oil or a butter, or a water based leave in that performs like a leave-in and sealer? How long would the juicy goodness need to last?
Originally Posted by cocodej
Water based would be best
A nice 3-4 day break from refreshing would be nice.
cocodej likes this.
Type: 3c with some 4a highlighted
Low porosity thick/coarse texture. nml elasticity
Routine: No rules, just happy hair

Cleanse: CJDF, Prell, LUSH Curly Wurly, Bobeam
LI/RO:BBB, CJ, SheaM, HEHIS, Garnier, KBN Shealoe, CD Chocolat, Oyin HH
Styling: CJ, CR, UFD, Zuresh, Ecostyler,MJ
PT/DT: BBB, CJ, Lather, MJSSB

HUGE PJJJJJJJJ!!!!

]
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