Dry Scalp issues

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I have 4-5 inch 4C hair that shrinks like crazy. Since my relaxer days I've had really bad flaking and itchiness. When I first went natural it slowed a ton probably since I cowashed daily but now it's back with a vengeance. I stopped using shampoo and switched to baking soda, conditioner and ACV which I liked last week but the flakes are still present. Everything I've tried on my scalp seems to flake including oils. Do you think I should give the baking soda/ACV more time? Cowash more often? I like the stretched look I get from my puffs but if washing is what it takes, I'll try it.
Routine:
Wash weekly with method above
Plop with a t-shirt
Apply water/aloe vera then Cantu leave-in followed by coconut oil and a little castor oil then air dry
Youre scalp maybe irritated because it has never fully healed.continuous flakes may be a sign of yeast infection. Also check out ingredients in your products that dry your scalparabens, silicones,sulfates, hydrogenated oils and alcohol. What conditioner are you currently

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Hair type= 3B
Shampoo= Alaffia Shea Line; If I have to clarify KKCC
Conditioner= Be Gud,
Co Wash= Suave Naturals Tropical Coconut
Leave In/Detangler: Treseme Naturals
Product: Whipped Shea Butter, Ecostyler Gel with Argan or Olive oil

GROWING IT ALL OUT Naturally (no sulfate, silicones, parabens, or hydrogenated oils)

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I used Tresemme Naturals, then a whole bottle of Aussie Aussomely Clean and now VO5
I have 4-5 inch 4C hair that shrinks like crazy. Since my relaxer days I've had really bad flaking and itchiness. When I first went natural it slowed a ton probably since I cowashed daily but now it's back with a vengeance. I stopped using shampoo and switched to baking soda, conditioner and ACV which I liked last week but the flakes are still present. Everything I've tried on my scalp seems to flake including oils. Do you think I should give the baking soda/ACV more time? Cowash more often? I like the stretched look I get from my puffs but if washing is what it takes, I'll try it.
Routine:
Wash weekly with method above
Plop with a t-shirt
Apply water/aloe vera then Cantu leave-in followed by coconut oil and a little castor oil then air dry
Originally Posted by Audrey610510
What have you been diagnosed with, xerosis or a form of dermatitis?

Baking soda is alkaline (pH ~8 ) like relaxer so damaging to both skin and hair (acidic pH 4.5 and 5.5), it's as bad if not worse than commercial sulphate shampoo for those with many dermatological disorders. Oleic acid which is present in many oils is a known irritant for susceptible individuals, stearic and palmitic acids can also be a problem in one form of dermatitis.
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
Experimenting with: benign neglect
I haven't been to a dermatologist, don't really have money for that. I've just had flake issues for a long time. But maybe it is an ingredient issue. I'll do some more research
I had horrible flakes. What helped me is stop relaxing, shampooing with shampoos with either peppermint, tea tree or shakaiki. And stopping anything with mineral oil or petrolatum.
Reeky likes this.
I haven't been to a dermatologist, don't really have money for that. I've just had flake issues for a long time. But maybe it is an ingredient issue. I'll do some more research
Originally Posted by Audrey610510
It's really unfair for us to give you advice when it's likely to be a medical issue.

However you still do have to help the doctor to help you so if you think it's an ingredient issue then you need to find out the common ingredients you used in products when you were relaxed and now that you are natural, and see if they are common allergens.

In addition try to simplify your routine by using one type of oil at a time. That way you can see if one of them is causing the problems. Some people are allergic to coconut oil, almond oil etc so the oils aggravate their skin.

Finally don't apply oils or creams to your scalp apply them to your hair. Since going natural I've never applied oil or creams directly to my scalp, yes some of the oil or cream will drip down to the scalp but if you are co-washing daily then your scalp shouldn't dry out. - Just make sure you don't get your head wet when it rains.
I haven't been to a dermatologist, don't really have money for that. I've just had flake issues for a long time. But maybe it is an ingredient issue. I'll do some more research
Originally Posted by Audrey610510
What about your family doctor, could you afford that? There is no need to see a dermatologist for a basic scalp complaint, they are routinely diagnosed here in the UK by general practitioners. You probably don't even need a prescription from them, just a diagnosis. Without that it's impossible to give a safe and effective treatment, we could easily worsen the problem for you.

I would certainly quit alkaline baking soda given alkaline relaxers were implicated in the start of this problem. Be aware, depending which condition you have, things may get worse before they get better - alkaline agents destroy the protective acid mantle, skin flora and strip out structural lipids from skin and hair. This leaves you vulnerable to opportunistic infection and further irritation.

What you describe doesn't sound like allergic contact dermatitis nor xerosis (simple dry skin), but that doesn't really narrow things down much - still leaves a number of options. It's likely to be inflammatory, in which case you might consider overhauling your diet as well as your scalpcare regime.

Lastly don't use heat of any kind (hairdryer, steamers, towel turbans, hot water, heat caps) and don't scratch - these all cause histamine to be released and inflammation to be increased which can worsen the problem.
nana_banana likes this.
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
Experimenting with: benign neglect
I had horrible flakes. What helped me is stop relaxing, shampooing with shampoos with either peppermint, tea tree or shakaiki. And stopping anything with mineral oil or petrolatum.
Originally Posted by adthomas
^^ agreed
You want to look for herbal cleansers, or ones with peppermint or tea tree. I used to use Trader Joes Tea Tree tingle shampoo and Shea moisture Thickening Shampoo with great results. Diluted Dr Bronners (peppermint or tea tree) or Dr Woods (more like a shampoo consistency) soaps work well too. Chagrin Valley Ayurvedic or Herb Garden shampoo bars are also options (followed with an acv rince) and right now since I use shampoo bars I use Bobeam Ayurvedic or Rootz herbal grower which are also awesome.

I dont think shampoo is bad I think sulfates are. When I stopped using sulfate shampoos I discovered that they were actually causing my flakes. Everytime ive used a sulfate poo since I eliminated them I got crazy flakes (even before my hair is "dirty") so consider that.

Id stay away from the baking soda, thats too harsh imo.. ACV as a final rinse works wonderfully for me though. Also, keep your scalp clean in general, you might not be able to rely on cowashing to cleanse it like some can.
adthomas likes this.
dense, fine & porous curls |

Poo/Cowash| Bobeam, V05 Shea Cashmere
DC| AOGPB, CJ Repair Me, BrownButterBeauty
RinseOut| Mill Creek Keratin Conditioner, Ology Moisturizing Conditioner
Leave In| Curl Rehab, Bee Mine Luscious Balanced Moisturizer, CJ Smoothing Lotion
Moisturize|Oyin Hair Dew, CR Moisture Milk
Gel| Kiss My Face UMG, Trader Joes Aloe Vera, KCCC
Sealants| Aloe Juice, Whipped Shea, Cocoa & Mango Butters, Castor, & my Peanut Oil Blend =)

Thank you guys so much for the advice! I'm definitely cutting out the petroleum and mineral oil. I will definitely look into a sulfate-free shampoo
I had horrible flakes. What helped me is stop relaxing, shampooing with shampoos with either peppermint, tea tree or shakaiki. And stopping anything with mineral oil or petrolatum.
Originally Posted by adthomas
^^ agreed
You want to look for herbal cleansers, or ones with peppermint or tea tree. I used to use Trader Joes Tea Tree tingle shampoo and Shea moisture Thickening Shampoo with great results. Diluted Dr Bronners (peppermint or tea tree) or Dr Woods (more like a shampoo consistency) soaps work well too. Chagrin Valley Ayurvedic or Herb Garden shampoo bars are also options (followed with an acv rince) and right now since I use shampoo bars I use Bobeam Ayurvedic or Rootz herbal grower which are also awesome.

I dont think shampoo is bad I think sulfates are. When I stopped using sulfate shampoos I discovered that they were actually causing my flakes. Everytime ive used a sulfate poo since I eliminated them I got crazy flakes (even before my hair is "dirty") so consider that.

Id stay away from the baking soda, thats too harsh imo.. ACV as a final rinse works wonderfully for me though. Also, keep your scalp clean in general, you might not be able to rely on cowashing to cleanse it like some can.
Originally Posted by Reeky
I use TJ ttt shampoo, dr bronner peppermint and bobeam rootz stimulator in rotation. All work well for me. I also use ayurvedic bar at times.
I haven't been to a dermatologist, don't really have money for that. I've just had flake issues for a long time. But maybe it is an ingredient issue. I'll do some more research
Originally Posted by Audrey610510
What about your family doctor, could you afford that? There is no need to see a dermatologist for a basic scalp complaint, they are routinely diagnosed here in the UK by general practitioners. You probably don't even need a prescription from them, just a diagnosis. Without that it's impossible to give a safe and effective treatment, we could easily worsen the problem for you.

I would certainly quit alkaline baking soda given alkaline relaxers were implicated in the start of this problem. Be aware, depending which condition you have, things may get worse before they get better - alkaline agents destroy the protective acid mantle, skin flora and strip out structural lipids from skin and hair. This leaves you vulnerable to opportunistic infection and further irritation.

What you describe doesn't sound like allergic contact dermatitis nor xerosis (simple dry skin), but that doesn't really narrow things down much - still leaves a number of options. It's likely to be inflammatory, in which case you might consider overhauling your diet as well as your scalpcare regime.

Lastly don't use heat of any kind (hairdryer, steamers, towel turbans, hot water, heat caps) and don't scratch - these all cause histamine to be released and inflammation to be increased which can worsen the problem.
Originally Posted by Firefox7275
Firefox and Blueblood,

I know we had a discussion about dermatologist and alternative treatments in another thread. I think our miscommunication came in that the healthcare system in the UK versus the US is very different. I am no expert and correct me if I am wrong but you guys have socialized medicine. Not the case here. If your employer doesn't offer insurance or they keep you just under full time hours not to give it to you and you are not poor enough to get qualified for government Medicaid or some free clinic then you are likely screwed. Also a lot of places don't accept Medicaid. And if you have insurance you may still be screwed. Unless it is preventatve care like a pap or mammogram I have to spend $300 for deductible for the year before my insurance pays anything for doc visits. And when I was going to derm after the deductible was met I still had to make a $45 specialist copy every time I went. Add to that I have to worry about finding someone in my network. Insurance companies have arrangements with certain doctors and hospitals. If you go outside they won't pay for it.. At least where I live derm appointments are hard to get let alone worrying about networrk. Also if your doc prescribes a medication not on their list of preffered medications they won't pay for it. I have had to call docs and get them to change my scripts. My insurance considers vision to be cosmetic so I pay out of pocket for my eye exams, glasses and contacts. Once I had an eye infection and my optometrist said I needed a specialist. The clinic called my insurance and told them it was about the health of my eye and not vision correction and they still refused to pay.

The reason I wrote all this is to give you an idea of why people may be reacting the way they are when you say go to derm. I certainly hope they go if they can but the truth is a lot of people can't afford it.
Firefox7275 likes this.
Adthomas I appreciate that however Firefox stated go and see a general practitioner. They should be able to do blood tests. As we stated in other threads your hair and scalp symptoms can easily be a symptom of something else.

Where I'm currently working I've heard a few horror stories though most female hair and scalp issues are easy to resolve.

Also my last lot of blood tests were done privately as even though we have a social healthcare system in the UK you can end up arguing with a GP to get them done. One of my SILs' who is anaemic is also a nurse. She had to argue with her GP to get regularly blood tests even though he knew she needed them half yearly. Since she had a blood transfusion the GP stopped arguing.

This is why people often pay for private healthcare either through. insurance, which varies greatly in price, or they do as I do which is pay if they need a treatment you can't easily get through the system such as dermatology, physiotherapy and dentistry.
adthomas and Firefox7275 like this.
Adthomas I appreciate that however Firefox stated go and see a general practitioner. They should be able to do blood tests. As we stated in other threads your hair and scalp symptoms can easily be a symptom of something else.

Where I'm currently working I've heard a few horror stories though most female hair and scalp issues are easy to resolve.

Also my last lot of blood tests were done privately as even though we have a social healthcare system in the UK you can end up arguing with a GP to get them done. One of my SILs' who is anaemic is also a nurse. She had to argue with her GP to get regularly blood tests even though he knew she needed them half yearly. Since she had a blood transfusion the GP stopped arguing.

This is why people often pay for private healthcare either through. insurance, which varies greatly in price, or they do as I do which is pay if they need a treatment you can't easily get through the system such as dermatology, physiotherapy and dentistry.
Originally Posted by Blueblood
Thanks. That is really interesting. I have heard many pros and cons about socialized medicine. It will be interesting when our new laws take effect.
africana
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Posts: n/a
Is ACV sufficient enough if you're only co-washing and not using a non-sulfate shampoo?

I used to get tons of flakes on my scalp and found that once i stopped oiling it, it went away. I always thought I had dry scalp, but it turns out I had a normal scalp. I used to use sulfate on my scalp, then smother it with a petroleum/mineral oil pomade. It was not good. I the beginning I still needed that feeling and used jojoba oil, but after a few weeks of co-washing I just stopped using the oil and never got flakes like I used to.

@blueblood - I can totally relate. I've had similar experiences here in Canada, except it is illegal to get certain services privately. Luckily my new family doc (GP) is really nice in helping me get the tests I need, and in certain situations where it's covered by the govt and in certain situations it is not, she always tries to see if there is a way I qualify for the govt to pay for the test.

Last edited by africana; 08-27-2013 at 08:50 PM.
I have 4-5 inch 4C hair that shrinks like crazy. Since my relaxer days I've had really bad flaking and itchiness. When I first went natural it slowed a ton probably since I cowashed daily but now it's back with a vengeance. I stopped using shampoo and switched to baking soda, conditioner and ACV which I liked last week but the flakes are still present.
Originally Posted by Audrey610510
What did you change between "When I first went natural it slowed a ton probably since I cowashed daily" and "but now it's back with a vengeance"?

Did you change your routine before you started with the baking soda and ACV rinses?

I personally don't see the need to run to a dermatologist straight away with flaking and itchiness. It could be a sign of something serious, but it can also be a sign of dry skin.

What helped me with scalp problems (which were more severe than yours judging from your post) is:
- no sulfates, no drying alcohols, no baking soda, just co-washing with conditioner
- apply coconut oil to scalp before washing (not every time, but occasionally) and let it sit there for a while
- massaging the scalp very well when washing
- occasionally exfoliate with mixture of conditioner and sugar
- avoid products that can cause build up


I think our miscommunication came in that the healthcare system in the UK versus the US is very different.
Originally Posted by adthomas
Socialized health care comes in many forms. I live in the Netherlands where health care is socialized as well. It does however resemble the US system in many ways.

Health care insurance is mandatory and cost somewhere in the range of 90 euro (about $120) a month for the most basic coverage up to 210 euro (about $ 280) a month or more if you want more extensive coverage.

Each year you have to pay the first 350 euros (about $ 470) yourself, before the insurance will start paying. Certain treatments (such as physiotherapy) are not covered in the basic insurance. Other treatments (such as certain medication or visiting a psychologist) you have to pay yourself partly. This is in addition to the 350 euros mentioned above.

Some things (such as visiting your GP) are always paid for by the insurance even if you have not spend the 350 euros yet. I think this last thing is a very important part of our system. It ensures that everyone has access to the most basic health care. The government prescribes wat the insurance companies have to cover under the basic insurance.

There are two types of insurance. One has contracts with certain docters and you'll need to see those. The other one gives you free choice. You cannot see a specialist (like a dermatoligist) without a referral from your general practitioner. This restricts access to specialized care (which is necessary to keep costs in check in a socialized health care system). If I want to see a dermatologist, I have to go see my GP first. He decides if a referral is needed or not. This means that you sometimes have to argue with your GP to get a referral.

Insurance companies have preferred medication as well here. If you want to have a different one, you have to pay yourself. When you take your recipe to the apothecary (is that the correct word or should I use pharmacy?) they just change the medication brand in what is covered by the insurance company.

Every system has its pros and cons.

Socialized health care is not perfect either. On a national scale costs are through the roof and very hard to control. We pay way more taxes than people in the US do. Taxes on wages are between 37% and 52% depending on your income. Furthermore VAT is 6% on basic items like food and 21% on all other things. That seems a lot, but it you just cannot compare. Getting an education is way cheaper here than it is in the US. Even the best schools only charge about $ 2500 tuition a year.
adthomas and Firefox7275 like this.
Hair type: 3b, normal porosity, medium texture

co-wash and rinse out: Inecto coconut conditioner
leave in: sHegron Aloe vera conditioner or Inecto coconut conditioner
styler: L'Oreal gel / mousse

Currently experimenting with home made flax seed gel (latest version with agave syrup and gelatine), home made protein treatments (latest version with gelatine and coconut oil)


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Adthomas I appreciate that however Firefox stated go and see a general practitioner. They should be able to do blood tests. As we stated in other threads your hair and scalp symptoms can easily be a symptom of something else.

Where I'm currently working I've heard a few horror stories though most female hair and scalp issues are easy to resolve.

Also my last lot of blood tests were done privately as even though we have a social healthcare system in the UK you can end up arguing with a GP to get them done. One of my SILs' who is anaemic is also a nurse. She had to argue with her GP to get regularly blood tests even though he knew she needed them half yearly. Since she had a blood transfusion the GP stopped arguing.

This is why people often pay for private healthcare either through. insurance, which varies greatly in price, or they do as I do which is pay if they need a treatment you can't easily get through the system such as dermatology, physiotherapy and dentistry.
Originally Posted by Blueblood
Thanks. That is really interesting. I have heard many pros and cons about socialized medicine. It will be interesting when our new laws take effect.
Originally Posted by adthomas
There isn't one system of "socialized" medicine as you call it. France, Australia, Sweden, Iceland etc all have different systems. Each countries system is different due to their history.


BTW I never oil my scalp. As a kid I suffered from contact dermatitis so as a result appying oils directly to my scalp is no-no. Yes some products will drip from my hair to my scalp but much less than if I specifically put oil on my scalp.
adthomas and Firefox7275 like this.

Last edited by Blueblood; 08-28-2013 at 11:37 PM.
ACV ACV I can't tell you how much this product has helped me especially with itching. ..I diluted this with water. Just a small bit does the trick and I focused on my scalp.....
Firefox and Blueblood,

I know we had a discussion about dermatologist and alternative treatments in another thread. I think our miscommunication came in that the healthcare system in the UK versus the US is very different. I am no expert and correct me if I am wrong but you guys have socialized medicine. Not the case here. If your employer doesn't offer insurance or they keep you just under full time hours not to give it to you and you are not poor enough to get qualified for government Medicaid or some free clinic then you are likely screwed.

<snip>

The reason I wrote all this is to give you an idea of why people may be reacting the way they are when you say go to derm. I certainly hope they go if they can but the truth is a lot of people can't afford it.
Originally Posted by adthomas
Thank you for taking the time to post. Yes we in the UK have 'free at the point of delivery' healthcare for all and I am well aware how lucky we are. I am also aware that many US citizens have no health insurance. We still pay for dentistry, vision correction and prescriptions, but there are fixed charges for some of this.

Much of the confusion actually comes with people not reading my posts properly, when I first posted on US skincare and haircare forums I would suggest getting a medical diagnosis. It was sometimes assumed I meant see a dermatologist when I meant any doctor. So oftentimes I suggest seeing a family doctor or dermatologist for a diagnosis - their choice which based on their circumstances. Still people read the word dermatologist and go on to assume I mean diagnosis AND treatment which I can quite believe would be prohibitively expensive. I do not, I am a great believer in targeted, evidence-based self care.

Diagnosis for the most common scalp complaints such as seborrhoeic dermatitis and atopic eczema is simple and requires no testing, here in the UK it is routinely done by GPs (family doctors) in a single five minute appointment. After four to six years of medical school plus training they are more than qualified to do this: in fact a pharmacist or many other health professionals could make an educated guess for free but that is not technically a diagnosis.

I do appreciate that visit to the family doctor may cost money in the US but I assume the amount is manageable for many by juggling or cutting back in another area even in this financial climate, considering you also save money on ineffective or harmful home remedies. Due to chronic health problems I am on a very low income myself so I do understand juggling finances. Using common sense if we can all afford internet connection and we are also spending money on haircare we are not destitute.

If someone has a diagnosis I will help as much as I can, I certainly don't pretend to know it all but after over two decades in a variety of healthcare disciplines and researching my own and family health issues (includes various common skin issues) I know enough to be of use. But it would be hugely irresponsible to amateur 'treat' without a working diagnosis.

Only the other day on LHC someone claiming and self treating 'dandruff' was advised to seek medical advice. Dermatologist pointed out she was unconsciously picking at her scalp during the appointment and she now realises it's a stress related habit, her family doctor could have noticed the same if she had no insurance. There is every chance she has worsened the irritation by her choice of self remedies.

Hope that makes sense of why I say what I do and I feel my suggestions are balanced out by others. I just don't think it's right if nobody points out this is an undiagnosed medical issue and most here are not medical professionals.
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
Experimenting with: benign neglect
Slimssocoily how do you use ACV? As a cleanser, rinse, or leave in treatment?

Sent from my SPH-L710 using CurlTalk App

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