3c/4a mixed texture or 4a Advice Needed

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So a few days ago I posted about my issues with frizz in the very front of my hair. My hair clumps at the ends but frizzes at the roots in these areas. I thought maybe I needed protein since I dc frequently, so I did one. Today I decided to do a diameter test on wash & go dried hair to double check the curl pattern & it is what I expected it to be. Mainly 4a in the front from my hairline & back about an inch or two, then the rest is mainly 3c with 4a mixed in here & there.
Getting the larger parts of my hair defined isn't difficult but that front & side area that's mainly 4a just wants to frizz!!

I used the kinky curly custard (best thing for defining the larger part of my curls), but the front is still mainly frizz! I was wondering how do other mixed curl pattern/textured 3c/4a chics get their definition? Or how do you ladies with mainly 4a curls define them?

Is it possible my hair just doesn't clump in that area? MAybe once my hair is longer it'll be easier to define? Idk. Pics attached after my wash n go
Attached Thumbnails
3c/4a mixed texture or 4a Advice Needed-image.jpg  
3c/4a // High Density // Med-Low Porosity // Med-Course Texture
I don't think it's a hair typing issue. You may have a case of Sybil hair. lol I have a mix of 4a and 3c and let me tell you my 4a is waayyy easier to achieve and maintain curl definition. My 4a is just about always coily but if my 3c is not as moisturized as it should be you can't tell I have curls at all. That's because I have a mixture of hair properties too. I have slightly different routines for different sections of my hair as far as types and amount of product I use. Even all my 4a is not the same. My 4a crown which is extra prone to tangling and dryness so I apply more leave in there than in other areas and in my 3c nape which is silky I have to be sure to apply less leave in and I have to lightly shampoo and condition my nape and edges more than the rest of my head because that is the only thing that would keep it happy and moisturized.... you can experiment because maybe whatever you're doing is good enough to keep some hair happy but not all of it.


Also you've only done one pt and it could take time. Sometimes treatments give immediate results but not always especially if you've gone a long time without them. Some people don't have any curl pattern until several months of consistent moisturizing and then their hair starts to clump. That first pic of your 4a coil looked very defined to me.
ninadef, CruzanCurlz89 and lolo918 like this.

Last edited by adthomas; 01-04-2015 at 10:11 PM.
I didn't think it was really a curl pattern issue but i do think it might be a hair type issue; like maybe my hair doesn't clump due to it being wiry in that area or something like that. I more so wanted to know how other ppl managed their multiple textures/curl patterns & what ppl with my hair type do to do so.

That's the advice i was looking for; I wasn't sure if I should treat that section of my hair differently since it's obviously not like the rest, seeing that you do def gives me a bit of hope lol. So maybe I might need to "spot treat" my hair? Besides continuing with my protein treats, try something different in those sections where I'm having issues? It's not a dryness problem, at least I don't think. Maybe the moisture isn't adequate in that area like you said & idk what else it can be. It may just be the the nature of my hair in that area. I guess I'll find out after my trial & error, if it is I'll just have to accept it *shoulder shrugs* lol.

Thanks for your response btw I really appreciate it ; it's nice being able to get advice & encouragement ^_^
3c/4a // High Density // Med-Low Porosity // Med-Course Texture

Last edited by CruzanCurlz89; 01-04-2015 at 11:20 PM.
Adthomas gave some good advice, and I agree with pretty much everything she said. My hair is silkier in the front, crown, and at my nape too though where my 3C texture is. My 4A areas go from ear to ear and are still as silky when they are straight but the amount of curl makes them feel less so everywhere except right on the back of my head starting where you would put a top knot or a bun not exactly on the top of your head to where your head hits the pillow/headrests. In that area it almost feels like I have higher density there, and it gets tangled like nobodies business. I do have to focus more on smoothing product and conditioner in that area, and if I do any diffusing at all it needs to be that area first because it is always the last to get fully dry. I always do four sections as two side by side sections in the front with a top and bottom section in the back. If I do more than that, I do three sections in the front, 2 in that stubborn section and one with my silky nape hair.

In all seriousness I didn't notice a drastic difference in my frizz reduction until I had been doing protein treatments for awhile. My frizz was and still appears in the same area as you, even if the curl pattern is different. It's taking a little while for repeat protein to fully get rid of the frizz now too. The other thing that really helped my frizzy front section and all over was starting to use flaxseed gel on my hair. It helps with my moisture retention because of the way that is a film forming humectant. My hair made a complete turnaround after I had consistent use of flaxseed gel and protein treatments.
3C/4A, fine texture, low-medium density, and low porosity
CG since November 2013.

Pre-Poo: infrequent now, Coconut Oil overnight
Shampoo: Curls unleashed/for occasional sulfate wash when needed, everlasting sunshine.
Conditioner: Suave Naturals Everlasting Sunshine and GVP's conditioning balm.
Styler: iagirl's flaxseed curl cream or gelatin gel/conditioner mix. <3
PT: iagirl's gelatin treatment 3-4 times a month, with conditioner/honey/avj
Cruzan

There is no rule you have to treat every area of your hair the same. Find what works for you. Reminds me of when I used to teach foreign language. I would give the lesson and some people caught on quickly no problem, some needed extra one on one attention, and some needed me to explain using another method because they were a different type of learner. I was watching Chime on YT and she said she keep her nape twisted because that area tangles and mats so much. So even gurus do it. Not saying it's not a pain until you figure it out though.
scrills and lolo918 like this.
Adthomas gave some good advice, and I agree with pretty much everything she said. My hair is silkier in the front, crown, and at my nape too though where my 3C texture is. My 4A areas go from ear to ear and are still as silky when they are straight but the amount of curl makes them feel less so everywhere except right on the back of my head starting where you would put a top knot or a bun not exactly on the top of your head to where your head hits the pillow/headrests. In that area it almost feels like I have higher density there, and it gets tangled like nobodies business. I do have to focus more on smoothing product and conditioner in that area, and if I do any diffusing at all it needs to be that area first because it is always the last to get fully dry. I always do four sections as two side by side sections in the front with a top and bottom section in the back. If I do more than that, I do three sections in the front, 2 in that stubborn section and one with my silky nape hair.

In all seriousness I didn't notice a drastic difference in my frizz reduction until I had been doing protein treatments for awhile. My frizz was and still appears in the same area as you, even if the curl pattern is different. It's taking a little while for repeat protein to fully get rid of the frizz now too. The other thing that really helped my frizzy front section and all over was starting to use flaxseed gel on my hair. It helps with my moisture retention because of the way that is a film forming humectant. My hair made a complete turnaround after I had consistent use of flaxseed gel and protein treatments.
Originally Posted by lolo918


Lolo,
I find it interesting you have a mix of silky and non silky too. I have been meaning to ask if anyone else had this mix to see if I was the only one. My nape is silky and it's mostly looser curls but there are some silky 4as in there. I also notice my 4a over my ears for some reason shrinks way less than my other 4a although the diameter is the same. That's part of the reason I'm not crazy about wash and gos. My nape and sides hang down where my other hair shrinks up and the shape is just all crazy. lol
Then the area near my crown is so freaking tangle prone. Now that I think of it it might be my sleep spot.
lolo918 likes this.
Lolo,
I find it interesting you have a mix of silky and non silky too. I have been meaning to ask if anyone else had this mix to see if I was the only one. My nape is silky and it's mostly looser curls but there are some silky 4as in there. I also notice my 4a over my ears for some reason shrinks way less than my other 4a although the diameter is the same. That's part of the reason I'm not crazy about wash and gos. My nape and sides hang down where my other hair shrinks up and the shape is just all crazy. lol
Then the area near my crown is so freaking tangle prone. Now that I think of it it might be my sleep spot.
Originally Posted by adthomas
It is sometimes beyond frustrating! I'm still having problems figuring out what my hair wants to acheive better looking/longer lasting stretched styles so I still wash and go more often than not. Right now I have this shelf going on around my ears with the nape looking out of place, until my hair completely dries. It's not perfect, but it'll do unless I do too much stretching for multi day hair. I started with super short nape hair last November leaving my band of 4A the longest, but I've only been trimming since then with no shape up cuts. My 4A above my ears can look straight enough when I use SM curling souffle to smooth it back into a bun that a relative asked if I had gone back to relaxing.


Sent from my VS980 4G using CurlTalk App
3C/4A, fine texture, low-medium density, and low porosity
CG since November 2013.

Pre-Poo: infrequent now, Coconut Oil overnight
Shampoo: Curls unleashed/for occasional sulfate wash when needed, everlasting sunshine.
Conditioner: Suave Naturals Everlasting Sunshine and GVP's conditioning balm.
Styler: iagirl's flaxseed curl cream or gelatin gel/conditioner mix. <3
PT: iagirl's gelatin treatment 3-4 times a month, with conditioner/honey/avj
Lolo,
I find it interesting you have a mix of silky and non silky too. I have been meaning to ask if anyone else had this mix to see if I was the only one. My nape is silky and it's mostly looser curls but there are some silky 4as in there. I also notice my 4a over my ears for some reason shrinks way less than my other 4a although the diameter is the same. That's part of the reason I'm not crazy about wash and gos. My nape and sides hang down where my other hair shrinks up and the shape is just all crazy. lol
Then the area near my crown is so freaking tangle prone. Now that I think of it it might be my sleep spot.
Originally Posted by adthomas
It is sometimes beyond frustrating! I'm still having problems figuring out what my hair wants to acheive better looking/longer lasting stretched styles so I still wash and go more often than not. Right now I have this shelf going on around my ears with the nape looking out of place, until my hair completely dries. It's not perfect, but it'll do unless I do too much stretching for multi day hair. I started with super short nape hair last November leaving my band of 4A the longest, but I've only been trimming since then with no shape up cuts. My 4A above my ears can look straight enough when I use SM curling souffle to smooth it back into a bun that a relative asked if I had gone back to relaxing.


Sent from my VS980 4G using CurlTalk App
Originally Posted by lolo918
We have the same above the ears curls. Twins. I have done massive chops several times on my nape over the years to get it to blend but I've decided to stop doing that.. I'm not sure if it grows faster or just seems to because it's looser but I get that shag effect. I like to do twist and curls but for my 4a I use bigger rollers and the nape I use smaller rollers to give it a shorter look and therefore a more uniform overall look versus the wonky shape. For second and third days I've really started to like bunning because it seems to give my hair a nice overall stretched shape that looks like it all belongs. However, I have to do loose buns because tight one make my hair go straight along the edges.


I have a question do you think your hair is a mix of silky and cottony or rather than some of your hair isn't getting what it needs. Butters are a no and I'm not big on creams but I recently tried a new cream and I noticed my hair that normally doesn't look silky has a much smoother look and feel. I don't often hear anyone on the boards saying they have a mix of silky and cottony hair.
lolo918 likes this.
Adthomas, it is definitely a mix of silky and cottony. Too much conditioner or one with too much slip and my hair just slides through my fingers, out of bobby pins, etc. Feel it with no leave in conditioner after washing or back before I started relaxing my hair, and you have soft + fluffy like a cotton ball.

Use a straight butter for a contained braid and I have shine out of this world plus a braid that will (mostly) hold together well. On loose hair or my edges, it just develops a halo look over time. After my edges get that halo effect, my only solution is a wash day.
I'm really bad about products because I gave up after I found something that worked consistently enough. I really loved the cashmere curls and curl gel-esc from the professional Curls line but after a period of unemployment had to find alternatives, then just never repurchased. They are more like botanical serums. I finally settled on just making my own (sort of) creams by mixing conditioner and gel. Most often it's my fsg and suave naturals everlasting sunshine conditioner. The suave also plays well when I mix it with L.A. Looks Sports gel. I get my best hair results when I don't put my products on in layers but all at the same time.

Now, I'm also wondering because I know you tend to have to wash your hair more often too. Does it mesh together easily, especially if you try to go to long between wash days? Too long as in more than 3 days? Not matted because if I completely wet my hair then use a conditioner with enough slip it'll separate without breaking strands, or having to do too much work detangling.

Sent from my VS980 4G using CurlTalk App
adthomas likes this.
3C/4A, fine texture, low-medium density, and low porosity
CG since November 2013.

Pre-Poo: infrequent now, Coconut Oil overnight
Shampoo: Curls unleashed/for occasional sulfate wash when needed, everlasting sunshine.
Conditioner: Suave Naturals Everlasting Sunshine and GVP's conditioning balm.
Styler: iagirl's flaxseed curl cream or gelatin gel/conditioner mix. <3
PT: iagirl's gelatin treatment 3-4 times a month, with conditioner/honey/avj
Adthomas, it is definitely a mix of silky and cottony. Too much conditioner or one with too much slip and my hair just slides through my fingers, out of bobby pins, etc. Feel it with no leave in conditioner after washing or back before I started relaxing my hair, and you have soft + fluffy like a cotton ball.

Use a straight butter for a contained braid and I have shine out of this world plus a braid that will (mostly) hold together well. On loose hair or my edges, it just develops a halo look over time. After my edges get that halo effect, my only solution is a wash day.
I'm really bad about products because I gave up after I found something that worked consistently enough. I really loved the cashmere curls and curl gel-esc from the professional Curls line but after a period of unemployment had to find alternatives, then just never repurchased. They are more like botanical serums. I finally settled on just making my own (sort of) creams by mixing conditioner and gel. Most often it's my fsg and suave naturals everlasting sunshine conditioner. The suave also plays well when I mix it with L.A. Looks Sports gel. I get my best hair results when I don't put my products on in layers but all at the same time.

Now, I'm also wondering because I know you tend to have to wash your hair more often too. Does it mesh together easily, especially if you try to go to long between wash days? Too long as in more than 3 days? Not matted because if I completely wet my hair then use a conditioner with enough slip it'll separate without breaking strands, or having to do too much work detangling.

Sent from my VS980 4G using CurlTalk App
Originally Posted by lolo918

Yeah going more than 3 days without washing is NO BUENO for my hair. It becomes extremely dry. I've tried all kinds of products and techniques supposed to extend wash days and none of it works for me. I don't find my gets extremely tangled probably because I stick mostly to stretched styles however my hair will tangle badly with a) protein overload or b) too long without using a wide tooth comb or the like to remove shed hair.
My best results is conditioner, oil and gel styling however I can't mix conditioner and gel because my low porosity doesn't like that. It won't absorb well. I apply one, let it sit then apply the other. I can mix the conditioner with the oil or do it separately though. I like Tresemme, non-PVP Ecostlyer or FSG and castor. My hair does like certain activator gels at certain times of the year. I have never tried professional version of Curls just the Target but a lady who works for the company told me at a meetup the pro is way better. I have tried a few serums and like the results as far as looks but on day two my hair felt a little greasy. Maybe I'm too heavy handed.
lolo918 likes this.
In case no one has mentioned this, your problem might also be because of how you apply your styler. Have you tried shingling or the praying hands method or even raking? Things might turn out better for you depending on how you distribute the product.
So a few days ago I posted about my issues with frizz in the very front of my hair. My hair clumps at the ends but frizzes at the roots in these areas. I thought maybe I needed protein since I dc frequently, so I did one. Today I decided to do a diameter test on wash & go dried hair to double check the curl pattern & it is what I expected it to be. Mainly 4a in the front from my hairline & back about an inch or two, then the rest is mainly 3c with 4a mixed in here & there.
Getting the larger parts of my hair defined isn't difficult but that front & side area that's mainly 4a just wants to frizz!!

I used the kinky curly custard (best thing for defining the larger part of my curls), but the front is still mainly frizz! I was wondering how do other mixed curl pattern/textured 3c/4a chics get their definition? Or how do you ladies with mainly 4a curls define them?

Is it possible my hair just doesn't clump in that area? MAybe once my hair is longer it'll be easier to define? Idk. Pics attached after my wash n go
Originally Posted by CruzanCurlz89


I have the same issues with my hair. As others have mentioned, you just have to approach each section differently depending on what you are trying to achieve.


The top of my head is the most prone to frizz and is 4a (3cish). The temple and sides are 4c and just bushy. They are not frizzy, they just have no coil/curl or any type of noticeable definition whether wet or dry. That's how I know it's not a typing hair issue vs. dealing with actual frizz. I recall Lorraine Massey (author of Curly Girl Method for those who may not know ) stating that when hydrating the hair through following her suggestions, the curl pattern starts to emerge at the ends first before the rest becomes hydrated. You may just have to keep hydrating it until it corrects itself. Maybe you can even add products to your regimen just to focus on hydrating that area and then sealing.


Whatever the case, you definitely don't have two different textures on the same strand of hair. It just appears that way, most likely, because of hydration issues.
4A-C/ med-high porosity/dense
Pre-poo: TN NC + coconut oil
Shampoo: Curly Sexy Hair
D.C.: SM DT masque mix, Eco-lesterol
Leave-in: Eden BW, SM Detangler, As I Am
Oil: Sweet Almond oil
Moisturizer/Styler:
Pudding: As I Am twist defining cream
Cream: CR Curlaide & MM
Custard: Eco custard
Butter: JC N&S
Milk: OH HD
Gel: Curls passion fruit control paste, Ecostyler, Curls Goddess Glaze & Gel-les-c
Refresher: As I Am cocoashea spray
I have a lot of these problems too. I actually found this post doing a google search for 4a hair. I saw the pic posted and was like OMG ive never seen hair that looked so much like my own before.

And to what coililana said about the curls clumping at the bottom first from being hydrated; i wish i had known this. Ive been natural for a year and have always had 3c curls (except for edges around the ears). All the sudden ive been having issues with my roots being fizzy and looking like they have no pattern even though i know they do. I just cut off a lot of my nicely clumped ends because i figured they were heat damage because they looked so different. Even though that is how my hair has always looked.

Its hard to say because i did end up with a lot of heat damage from a salon visit. And my new growth since has looked nothing like my hair for the past year . Ive suspected it was dryness but nothing seems to help.

I recently started doing water only washing, and ive noticed about an inch or 2 of my roots are crazy defined and almost straight looking. And from there it just goes poof. Im having a hard time getting the rest of my hair hydrated .

I just had to share. I was just like omg
Bosslaydee likes this.
I also have a mix of texture,

Based on your pics, I wonder if you its how you are applying your products and which products you are using. Custard may just not have enough hold. Try mixing it with a little bit of gel and making sure you apply it in smaller sections.
twirlygranny likes this.
This picture really helped me pinpoint my type. Thank you.
Can someone help me try to find out my hair type I'm not too sure about it just yet. o.o
Attached Thumbnails
3c/4a mixed texture or 4a Advice Needed-b58375b1-e3ac-4936-bdd6-6ee1a268b56e.jpg   3c/4a mixed texture or 4a Advice Needed-36630f3f-f33f-46bb-8f06-c613974575ae.jpg  
I have a lot of these problems too. I actually found this post doing a google search for 4a hair. I saw the pic posted and was like OMG ive never seen hair that looked so much like my own before.

And to what coililana said about the curls clumping at the bottom first from being hydrated; i wish i had known this. Ive been natural for a year and have always had 3c curls (except for edges around the ears). All the sudden ive been having issues with my roots being fizzy and looking like they have no pattern even though i know they do. I just cut off a lot of my nicely clumped ends because i figured they were heat damage because they looked so different. Even though that is how my hair has always looked.

Its hard to say because i did end up with a lot of heat damage from a salon visit. And my new growth since has looked nothing like my hair for the past year . Ive suspected it was dryness but nothing seems to help.

I recently started doing water only washing, and ive noticed about an inch or 2 of my roots are crazy defined and almost straight looking. And from there it just goes poof. Im having a hard time getting the rest of my hair hydrated .

I just had to share. I was just like omg
Originally Posted by Utopianonawa
Wow. You're literally me just months earlier lol I saw the OPs pictures and I'm like "that frizz, I recognize it.." So my type. And this is my current problem. I'm slightly disappointed I have to start spot treating cuz I don't have a styling product for my 3c let alone my 4a.. And I realize I'm not 4b as well, just under hydrated. And yes I too have silky hair at the nape, real silky. I also started water rinsing and my hair was NOT having any of it. My hair became defined but after it dried, it dried OUT. Coconut oil doesn't help with sebum coverage so I can't use that by my hair craves it. So I went back to my oil mix of EVOO, JBCO, coconut oil, and peppermint oil, which lets my hair be moisturizer for DAYS almost weeks without another application.
Anyone have any good defining product suggestions, I'm such a styling noob, I've been wearing wigs for almost 3 years now. Since my BC.
4a/3c mix.

BC: 09/28/12
growing everyday.

one step at a time..
SL / APL / BSL / MBL / WL


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