Is There A Such Thing As 4C or 4D Hair ???

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I thought 4b still clumped but had the z formation.
Originally Posted by Kinky Rhonnie
Hummm... Did you take a look at the link I posted that shows off Whitley Gilbert's hair. If you didn't, here it is http://www.nappturality.com/forum/sh...&postcount=475
It freshly washed and product free...just like my hair is in the example I posted.

But there is a visually distinctive difference between the way her hair clumps into coils and hangs and the way mine just draws up into a puffy looking massive cloud.

That's pretty much the distinction that we make between cNapps and non cNapps. In that pic of Whitley, she is easily some version of a 4A.

Now I've seen some cNapps who have hair that naturally clumps (see middle pic for example http://nappyme.wordpress.com/cnapy-albums/ ) but there aren't really any spirals or coils or curls it just draws up and sticks straight up. Perhaps the young lady in this pic does have hair that has that infamous z pattern...dunno.

But again...the point is that cNapp hair does not CLUMP to show off any type of curl/coil/wave pattern. As I look at the young lady's cNapp hair in the above link... I can't tell what's going on with her individual strands. But when I look at Whitely's hair, she quite clearly and most definitely has coils. So that's the difference, in my mind, between 4a and 4b/cnapp hair.
Originally Posted by Nappy*Me
I can't see that link b/c I'm not a member of Nappturality. But I do know what Jasmine Guy's hair looks like. Is that who you're talking about? I understand the difference between 4a and 4b. I was confused about what 4c was? Unless you are saying 4b/cnapp is the same as 4c? Sorry if I wasn't clear in my previous post.

@KinkyRhonnie: Yes, that sounds right. I think I meant "clumping" in a different sense.
Originally Posted by MixedUpCurlyChick
4b and cNapp texture is one in the same. I have no idea what 4c is.
Hummm... Did you take a look at the link I posted that shows off Whitley Gilbert's hair. If you didn't, here it is http://www.nappturality.com/forum/sh...&postcount=475
It freshly washed and product free...just like my hair is in the example I posted.

But there is a visually distinctive difference between the way her hair clumps into coils and hangs and the way mine just draws up into a puffy looking massive cloud.

That's pretty much the distinction that we make between cNapps and non cNapps. In that pic of Whitley, she is easily some version of a 4A.

Now I've seen some cNapps who have hair that naturally clumps (see middle pic for example http://nappyme.wordpress.com/cnapy-albums/ ) but there aren't really any spirals or coils or curls it just draws up and sticks straight up. Perhaps the young lady in this pic does have hair that has that infamous z pattern...dunno.

But again...the point is that cNapp hair does not CLUMP to show off any type of curl/coil/wave pattern. As I look at the young lady's cNapp hair in the above link... I can't tell what's going on with her individual strands. But when I look at Whitely's hair, she quite clearly and most definitely has coils. So that's the difference, in my mind, between 4a and 4b/cnapp hair.
Originally Posted by Nappy*Me
I can't see that link b/c I'm not a member of Nappturality. But I do know what Jasmine Guy's hair looks like. Is that who you're talking about? I understand the difference between 4a and 4b. I was confused about what 4c was? Unless you are saying 4b/cnapp is the same as 4c? Sorry if I wasn't clear in my previous post.

@KinkyRhonnie: Yes, that sounds right. I think I meant "clumping" in a different sense.
Originally Posted by MixedUpCurlyChick
4b and cNapp texture is one in the same. I have no idea what 4c is.
Originally Posted by Nappy*Me
Oh...well that was what this thread was about! I thought you were explaining 4c. Sorry for the confusion lol.
@MixedUpCurlyChick, you can join nappturality for free but there will be a couple of forums that you will not be able to access if you are interested. Whitley Gilbert is the screen name of one of the members. I can't see the image here at work though.
Originally Posted by Kinky Rhonnie
lol that totally went over my head. I'm like "why are we referring to her character name?!" Thanks for the clarification.

I can't see that link b/c I'm not a member of Nappturality. But I do know what Jasmine Guy's hair looks like. Is that who you're talking about? I understand the difference between 4a and 4b. I was confused about what 4c was? Unless you are saying 4b/cnapp is the same as 4c? Sorry if I wasn't clear in my previous post.

@KinkyRhonnie: Yes, that sounds right. I think I meant "clumping" in a different sense.
Originally Posted by MixedUpCurlyChick
4b and cNapp texture is one in the same. I have no idea what 4c is.
Originally Posted by Nappy*Me
Oh...well that was what this thread was about! I thought you were explaining 4c. Sorry for the confusion lol.
Originally Posted by MixedUpCurlyChick
I realize that. However, the very first line in KinkyRhonnie's post states that 4c is cNapp hair and that is incorrect. That's why I posted...to explain that cNapp and 4B hair are one in the same. the "c" in "cNapp" has nothing to do with 4c hair.

With regard to 4c --- guess some folks feel the need to define their hair as kinkier than 4B but the well known hair types 1 thru 4b were designated by Andre (whatever his last name is) Oprah's hairdresser. And those are the designators that many of us online go by. Now suddenly this 4C designation has cropped up independant of the original Andre scale, and I've seen NO consistent definition of what this is by anyone. So as far as I'm concerned 4C will remain OFF my radar it doesn't exist. I mean come on...do we really need ANOTHER hair type?

Eh...but what do I know? This is where I typically bow out of hair typing conversations cause you can't please everyone since hardly anyone's hair fits into a nice neat package.

Personally, I'm happy just being a 4b/cNapp; it works for me.
Two years and 2 years 5 months and some weeks since my last relaxer and I still learning too. lol

Thanks for helping us out Nappy*Me. You are so knowlegeable and I have the utmost respect for you. I really appreciate you coming in here.

These discussions are the very reason many people REFUSE to discuss in hair types.

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^^^Thank you! And...you're welcome. Hey, have I ever told you how much I love your hair. It's gorgeous!
Whoops I thought 4c was the same as cnapp. So I guess I should change my signature. Honestly, when I see some of the photos of what some posters think is 4b hair, it looks like my hair after a texturizer.

Even when I go to an African salon once my already thick hair is wet and starts getting really tangled and nappy they say, "I'll give you the price I quoted this time but next time..."
4a/b/c
Poo- Deva, Wen, Shea Moisture
Co- Aubrey Organic, GPD DevaOne.
Detangler- Aussie moist, Dove
LI- SM Curling Milk, infusium
KCCC KT on certain days
Oil- Coconut, jojoba,
Goal: Peace, healthy hair and to not spend alot of time and money on my hair.
4b and cNapp texture is one in the same. I have no idea what 4c is.
Originally Posted by Nappy*Me
Oh...well that was what this thread was about! I thought you were explaining 4c. Sorry for the confusion lol.
Originally Posted by MixedUpCurlyChick
I realize that. However, the very first line in KinkyRhonnie's post states that 4c is cNapp hair and that is incorrect. That's why I posted...to explain that cNapp and 4B hair are one in the same. the "c" in "cNapp" has nothing to do with 4c hair.

With regard to 4c --- guess some folks feel the need to define their hair as kinkier than 4B but the well known hair types 1 thru 4b were designated by Andre (whatever his last name is) Oprah's hairdresser. And those are the designators that many of us online go by. Now suddenly this 4C designation has cropped up independant of the original Andre scale, and I've seen NO consistent definition of what this is by anyone. So as far as I'm concerned 4C will remain OFF my radar it doesn't exist. I mean come on...do we really need ANOTHER hair type?

Eh...but what do I know? This is where I typically bow out of hair typing conversations cause you can't please everyone since hardly anyone's hair fits into a nice neat package.

Personally, I'm happy just being a 4b/cNapp; it works for me.
Originally Posted by Nappy*Me
lol I hear you. I personally don't feel like we need any more categories. I tend to think people identifying as 4C may just have 4B (as far as the original definition) hair that looks/behaves a different way from other 4Bs they have seen. It can get confusing between (texture) manipulation, having more or less shine or sheen, porosity, texture etc. But I was curious to hear more about this 4C I see floating around the boards. I don't think we need another category but I'd be interested to hear a self identified 4C's explanataion of what it is. Good topic!

Whoops I thought 4c was the same as cnapp. So I guess I should change my signature. Honestly, when I see some of the photos of what some posters think is 4b hair, it looks like my hair after a texturizer.

Even when I go to an African salon once my already thick hair is wet and starts getting really tangled and nappy they say, "I'll give you the price I quoted this time but next time..."
Originally Posted by kikisf
Keep in mind that people do all kinds of things to their hair and some of the 4Bs you see may be manipulating their texture to make it hang more or have more/less curl. There are so many things that affect the look of the hair. Also, IMO most hairdressers really don't know how to do 3c hair. Even less know how to do type 4 of any kind. So when they act like they should be overcharging you, I think that reflects more on their lack of training/skill than the alleged manageability of your hair. Just my 2 cents!
^^^Thank you! And...you're welcome. Hey, have I ever told you how much I love your hair. It's gorgeous!
Originally Posted by Nappy*Me
Thank you so much. I keep saying I've got to update that ancient picture from last year's World Natural Hair Health and Beauty Show in April. But, I just love that fro and that t-shirt. lol

Keep in mind that people do all kinds of things to their hair and some of the 4Bs you see may be manipulating their texture to make it hang more or have more/less curl. There are so many things that affect the look of the hair. Also, IMO most hairdressers really don't know how to do 3c hair. Even less know how to do type 4 of any kind. So when they act like they should be overcharging you, I think that reflects more on their lack of training/skill than the alleged manageability of your hair. Just my 2 cents!
Originally Posted by MixedUpCurlyChick
Amen to all of the above. I keep wanting to experiment with a wash and go style (of couse with gobs of conditioner or gel) but I'm afraid of the outcome so I continue to set with braids and twists for loose styles.

I continue to think back to if only I had knew...

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Last edited by Kinky Rhonnie; 01-14-2010 at 07:07 AM.
LOL, this is really confusing. My head is hurting.
Hair Type: 4a/4b Combo
Last Relaxer: May/June 2008
Big Chop: N/A
http://members.fotki.com/SugarNuts (1/31)
Detangle/Co-Wash: VO5 Freesia or Green Tea
Shampoo: White Vinegar

Deep Con. Treat.: Aussie 3-min. & Olive Oil
Final Wash: Nexxus Humectress
Moist. Spritz: Glycerin, Water, Proclaim 7-Olive Oil, Suave Extreme Leave-In


Thank you so much. I keep saying I've got to update that ancient picture from last year's World Natural Hair Health and Beauty Show in April. But, I just love that fro and that t-shirt. lol

Keep in mind that people do all kinds of things to their hair and some of the 4Bs you see may be manipulating their texture to make it hang more or have more/less curl. There are so many things that affect the look of the hair. Also, IMO most hairdressers really don't know how to do 3c hair. Even less know how to do type 4 of any kind. So when they act like they should be overcharging you, I think that reflects more on their lack of training/skill than the alleged manageability of your hair. Just my 2 cents!
Originally Posted by MixedUpCurlyChick
Amen to all of the above. I keep wanting to experiment with a wash and go style (of couse with gobs of conditioner or gel) but I'm afraid of the outcome so I continue to set with braids and twists for loose styles.

I continue to think back to if only I had knew...
Originally Posted by Kinky Rhonnie
Girl, you should for it! Do it on a day when you don't have anything important to do. Its always fun to experiment. You can always start over or change your mind.
I agree with someone who said earlier that the problem isn't with the 4bs not being 4b, it's that many people that are 4a identify themselves as 4b. When you look at the official description from the Andre Walker, 4b has no defined curl pattern. It frustrates me to see people with coils, even though they are tight, refer themselves to 4b. 4b hair won't coil, curl, nada. And that's what type I have. I sometimes joke and say I'm a 4z or even a type 5. But I feel I have to do that because too many of the people that say they are 4b really aren't. I don't think the curl pattern system is great or all-inclusive. And it can have the potential to cause division. But I think people just want to find others with hair like them so they can take the best care of their hair. Guess I'll just call myself a cNapp from now on...
I agree with someone who said earlier that the problem isn't with the 4bs not being 4b, it's that many people that are 4a identify themselves as 4b. When you look at the official description from the Andre Walker, 4b has no defined curl pattern. It frustrates me to see people with coils, even though they are tight, refer themselves to 4b. 4b hair won't coil, curl, nada. And that's what type I have. I sometimes joke and say I'm a 4z or even a type 5. But I feel I have to do that because too many of the people that say they are 4b really aren't. I don't think the curl pattern system is great or all-inclusive. And it can have the potential to cause division. But I think people just want to find others with hair like them so they can take the best care of their hair. Guess I'll just call myself a cNapp from now on...
Originally Posted by MissLeggz
Interesting post...I tend to agree with that. Its best to just connect with folks who have a similar looking texture and compare notes. You never know what will work for you, until you try. People base the typing on so many factors. It makes more sense to just ineteract with people who share similar characteristics, no matter their *hair identity.*
I agree with someone who said earlier that the problem isn't with the 4bs not being 4b, it's that many people that are 4a identify themselves as 4b. When you look at the official description from the Andre Walker, 4b has no defined curl pattern. It frustrates me to see people with coils, even though they are tight, refer themselves to 4b. 4b hair won't coil, curl, nada. And that's what type I have. I sometimes joke and say I'm a 4z or even a type 5. But I feel I have to do that because too many of the people that say they are 4b really aren't. I don't think the curl pattern system is great or all-inclusive. And it can have the potential to cause division. But I think people just want to find others with hair like them so they can take the best care of their hair. Guess I'll just call myself a cNapp from now on...
Originally Posted by MissLeggz
Exactly! I know I said I was going to bow out, but since my blog keeps getting hits from this thread, I pop over here from time to time to see the conversation. Anyhoo, I really have to agree with this post. I've seen people say they're a 4B because of the size of their curl. Huh? If you're a 4B, by virtue of Andre's definition, then you DON'T HAVE A CURL PATTERN! You don't have a wave pattern that shows itself off either. Honestly, I just don't know why this is soooooo hard to understand.

That's why I usually tell people they either get it or they don't when I have to repeatedly explain what cNapp/4b hair is. People with cNapp/4b hair usually KNOW they have it. It's the hair that usually no one wants. It's the hair that if you have it, once people (family, friends etc) see it, they'll tell you you're too nappy to be natural. Some 4A textures can micmic cNapp hair when it's picked out all the way, but the fact that it does have naturally have visible clumpy coils when you want to make them "pop" is always more desireable than hair that does not. That's what society, by and large, values most and so us cNapps/4Bs can really be left with feelings of inadequacy when it comes to our texture of hair. Now that's not to negate the struggles that people with other nappy textures go through and experience, but to highlight what makes the 4B journey a tad bit unique.

Boy... I won't lie. I would love to have some natural clumpy coils like Poohbear or Whitley Gilbert or ms-gg. But I don't. I can't put anything on my hair to make my curls "pop" cause there's no product out there that's going to create what I don't naturally have. So I don't dwell on it...at all. I just work with what I got and quite frankly, I think I do a darned good job of it with my hair if I might say so myself.

At the end of the day though, I think most anyone with a type 4 texture can have very similar experiences and struggles once their decision to be natural has been made.

Last edited by Nappy*Me; 02-08-2010 at 08:11 AM.
That's why I usually tell people they either get it or they don't when I have to repeatedly explain what cNapp/4b hair is. People with cNapp/4b hair usually KNOW they have it. It's the hair that usually no one wants. It's the hair that if you have it, once people (family, friends etc) see it, they'll tell you you're too nappy to be natural. Some 4A textures can micmic cNapp hair when it's picked out all the way, but the


This is me all the way. Im a 4A , however I call myself a cNapp because Its rare that I wear my hair defined, more so in the summertime if Im being lazy. I love my hair to look like a cloud of hair , its soooo fluffy looking , Like in my avatar picture. It feels like a satiny piece of hair thats been stretched out . The more stretched the more it feels like cotton.
I'm sorry if this is a "dumb" question but how does 4B differ from 4C? I was under the impression that 4B didn't form a visible and/or clumping hair pattern all together?
Originally Posted by MixedUpCurlyChick
I always thought 4c was made up. Most folk who say they have 4c ususally say it because they see someone who claims 4b but the hair has curls like a 4a. So then the 4b person feels that they can't be a 4b if this defined coily person is claiming 4b so they call themselves 4c or 4z to mean that they do not have any curl definition at all.

In reality, some people claim 4b when really they are 4a. Some folk are 4a/4b but claim 4b but they still have a wave/coil pattern. And some 4b's have fine hair which looks different than a coarse haired 4b. And thick 4b looks different than thin 4b. Just as with any other hair texture different folk's hair will look different depending on manipulation, health, products used, thickness and coarseness of the hair.
Originally Posted by knt1229
Exactly when I see people with ringlets calling themselves 4b, I say 4c. But it almost seems as if there is more variation on the 4 level. Some have extra small fusilli that can be seen, others are pen spring sized and others are smaller then the the letter "e" on a dime.
4a/b/c
Poo- Deva, Wen, Shea Moisture
Co- Aubrey Organic, GPD DevaOne.
Detangler- Aussie moist, Dove
LI- SM Curling Milk, infusium
KCCC KT on certain days
Oil- Coconut, jojoba,
Goal: Peace, healthy hair and to not spend alot of time and money on my hair.
There may not be a 4c hair type but i definetly know that my hair is something other than a 4b. It is very dry and kinky and it doesn't curl when it is soaking wet. My hair doesn't do anything other than sit on top of my head.
stick to the basis, there is 4C hair, but i haven't seen 4d during my working in the salon.

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I'm sorry if this is a "dumb" question but how does 4B differ from 4C? I was under the impression that 4B didn't form a visible and/or clumping hair pattern all together?
Originally Posted by MixedUpCurlyChick
I always thought 4c was made up. Most folk who say they have 4c ususally say it because they see someone who claims 4b but the hair has curls like a 4a. So then the 4b person feels that they can't be a 4b if this defined coily person is claiming 4b so they call themselves 4c or 4z to mean that they do not have any curl definition at all.

In reality, some people claim 4b when really they are 4a. Some folk are 4a/4b but claim 4b but they still have a wave/coil pattern. And some 4b's have fine hair which looks different than a coarse haired 4b. And thick 4b looks different than thin 4b. Just as with any other hair texture different folk's hair will look different depending on manipulation, health, products used, thickness and coarseness of the hair.
Originally Posted by knt1229
yup! my hair acts a lot differently than other people with 4b hair because my hair is thin in density and my strands are thin. my hair is very soft and cottony. it's not coarse and wiry. it does actually clump into waves and curls on the ends only. i don't see many people with my hair but i am definitely a 4b. i use to say 4c(z) back when i had no idea what the hell i was doing.
I believe 4c exists because the hair typing is a generalization of hair types and you'll find some hair that doesn't fall under 4a or 4b and others feel the need to come up with a new category.

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