Join Date: Sep 2008
Re: Cocoa Coily
Dear G-d, where do I begin?
For One, regarding the diatribe on CEO pay, what exactly are you proposing salary caps and living wages? That's way too much government intrusion for my and many people's liking. Moreover it will not lead to any desired outcomes. I can't even scratch the surface on corporate governance, executive pay and wages, those issues would be two or three other threads.
Moving on, you are grossly oversimplifying the subprime mortgage crisis! This crisis actually started with the abuses of federal power and some loopy and warped liberal interpretations of fairness and equality. Right now, I don't have the time or the energy to explain or go into a summary of the problem. Professors are writing whole books on the process as I type. But I wouldn't disregard the role the federal government and federal reserve played in creating a toxic economic climate.
It would be wise to read up on the following before you jump to conclusions on what the subprime crisis was about and who is at fault.
The Glass Steagall Act of 1933
The Bank Holding Company Act of 1956
The Community Reinvestment Act of 1977
The Deregulation and Monetary Control Act of 1980
The Alternative Mortgage Transaction Parity Act of 1982
The Tax Reform Act of 1986
The Riegle-Neal Insterstate Banking and Branching Efficiency Act of 1994
The Financial Services Modernization Act of 1999
The Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000
Also the Role of:
Government Sponsored Enterprises: FNMA and FHLMC
Greenspans Interest Rate Cuts of 2001
State and Federal Usury Laws
Association of Community Organizers for Reform Now
Barney Frank, Franklin Raines, Henry Cisneros, Roberta Achtenberg, Robert Rubin, Phil Gramm, Jim Leach, Chris Dodd and plenty more I'm sure.
But hey, I can just sum all that up into CEOs suck. In fact let's encourage the people who want something for nothing with more irresponsibility and marxist soaked policy positions. And no computer is going to blow up in my face, unless you subscribe to some Weather Underground nonsense that those who don't believe in communist goals and ideas should be executed en masse.
Two, the bailout was and still is BS. I've said that in every post I've ever put on here. There were alternatives that were ignored and I'm glad my Congressman was one of the few intelligent people in DC who opposed it twice. So let's not cite a crappy policy as more reasons to bankrupt government with more socialism. This is exactly why some people didn't like the bailout to begin with. It doesn't solve the problem, and people with the same mindset will latch on to it asking for more handouts and I don't care if it's a corporation or a regular person. Welfare is welfare.
Sorry if you're tired of the "if I work harder than someone else, I shouldn't be taxed [more] for it" but it's not going anywhere. And a more accurate assesment would be "If I utilize my talents and earn more money for my effort, I'm entitled to the fruits of my labor" Either way, even Tocqueville saw these attitudes in America way back in the 1800's. The Frontier Spirit, the Puritan Work Ethic, it's all part of our cultural DNA. Americans have always believed through hard work and ingenuity we can achieve great wealth. We have always had a general distrust of and distaste for elites, government and taxes. You will not hear the end of anything that remotely stems from the above beliefs because they shape our national psyche.
Personally I prefer a flat or fair tax to the progressive tax system we have. I make my money and I earn my money. The idea behind capitalism is that the market awards my talents based on what other people demand and our willing to reward. It's not just "working harder". A crappy singer can bust her ass, tour the country and sing til she's blue in the face. If people don't want to buy her CD's, she's broke. Your logic is failing here. People have skills and talents they can develop and exploit, all people are asking is to keep more of the money they earn and be allowed to spend and invest it as they, not a bureaucrat, sees fit.
Regarding Joe on GMA he was talking about being contacted to show up at a rally after the fact.
Listen to the interview again. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHmiYTODqpU
He was not contacted by anyone before meeting Obama. Obama was in his neighborhood and Joe asked a question. He was contacted by the campaign to go to a rally after the story broke and Obama started to get some heat for his "spread the wealth" answer. And that was smart thinking on the McCain campaign's part to seize the situation. You might not care for Joe but he resonates with a lot of Americans and has given a boost to the McCain campaign. Again it's hilarious to hear the opposition critique who McCain picks for VP or who he has on the stump with him. Because yeah McCain and his supporters really need to hear your advice especially when all the things you don't like increase McCain's standing in the "polls" and resonate with electorate.
And who was tired of Joe Six Pack? Americans ate that stuff up. Every election cycle a candidate from either of the major parties latches onto some kind of Americana. This is campaign public relations 101. Again if you don't care for it, fine. But to make it seem like it's pathetic or not neccessary is kind of ridiculous. Hockey mom is the new soccer mom. And in 2012 we'll have something new to dissect and discuss.
Also every election cycle there is a turning point in the campaign that illustrates a salient point. And it's usually something that may seem trivial to some but crystallizes a lot of concerns the general populace and/or media is having. I'm thinking of Dukakis in the tank, Kerry windsurfing, the Dean scream, Bush and grocery food scanner. It's all old hat, potatoe potato.
And what is ironic that in our media-centric reality TV age, a man who already has an enterpreneurial spirit decides to seize the occassion. Would you prefer he twiddle his thumbs and stay in his house? Stick to drains and septic systems? Disregard any other aspirations he's had since childhood so you can feel better that Joe knows his place? Give me a break
And who gives a flip that he's in a position to buy the business. Asking questions about business, taxes and politics and mentally filing them away until you are in the position to use that knowledge is smart! There's a saying for it: Begin with The End in Mind. My friend's dad came to this country with no money and barely spoke english. He started off as a janitor in a mall, learned the language and kept informed in everything that was going on around him. He now owns a chain of stores on the West Coast. When he asked various people questions about business, taxes, and politics was he in a position to do anything about it? No. But he figured he need to prepare himself for the challenges ahead and he wanted to live and work in a favorable business and political climate that would let him freely pursue his ambitions.
Also the the company Joe worked for had revenue over 500K. http://www.manta.com/coms2/dnbcompany_dp1mf9. I don't know where you got that 100K number from, but it's wrong like almost every other inaccurate thing that has been posted about this plumber on here.
And I didn't get a stimulus check. I didn't qualify and I didn't want one. I agreed with Bloomberg when he said giving a stimulus check to Americans at this time is like "buying an alcoholic a drink." It was another stupid idea from the Bush administration. Again why are you citing a dumb political move as any kind of justification for spreading the wealth, like it's a good thing. I've been pretty consistent with my dislike for this kind of nonsense.
As for associating those things with you. I don't have to that, you do that all on your own. The reaction to Joe has been character assasination and calling his desires to have a profitable business silly wishful thinking. These are things you and others have said.
Here's what you said in this thread:
"He did not need to misrepresent himself to ask the question he did.
[No one has shown how he misrepresented himself]
He is living a fantasy, and allowing that fantasy to influence his decisions. [What I see as entrepreneurial spirit, ambition, forecasting the political and economic climate, you call fantasy]
If you deem those things to be ridiculous you can stop posting the ridiculous.
It's difficult to have a discussion with many people on this forum who present so much misleading information and fail to read up on the issues at hand.
This is my last post on Joe the Plumber. Everyone here has an internet connection and can look up the facts. Citing the opinion of a union boss, misquoting the man's own words, shooting the messenger, ignoring the message, ignoring privacy violations, railing against CEO's and the "selfish"...I'm sorry guys none of these things are going to cut it.
I can't wait til McCain wins 293+ on Tuesday and this kind of ridiculousness can die down.