bleaching vs. coloring

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so im doing highlights sometime in the near future...i have dark dirty blonde hair that's pretty long (almost to my waist, straightened) and i want to add some honey-golden highlights. do i bleach it? or do i add honey-golden color? or will the color even process since my hair's darker than the color i want it to be? i know bleaching is extremely damaging but i'd only be doing it once, whereas i'd have to re-color as the highlights faded, if i was coloring.
thanks guys!
The only way to get your color to lighten is by using bleach. Using a lighter hair color does have some bleach in it to lighten, just a lower level of it. If you were to use a hair color (and you'd have to use either a medium or light blonde haircolor) you would probably only lighten to a dark strawberry blonde.

If you want actual blonde highlights you would definitely need to bleach it first. It may even need 2 bleach processes and you'd most likely need to leave it on for at least an hour

Also remember that any time you lighten or highlight, yyou will need to repeat this process once roots grow in.

I'm totally a DIY hair colorer, but even I would suggest going to a salon if you're going to do highlights.

Good luck!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using CurlTalk App
murrrcat likes this.
Well, I would like to suggest that you go with coloring the hair. I too only color my hair instead of bleaching. The salon where I use to go is such that they use color racks to eliminate the mess counter as well as to save extra time in mixing the color.
Salon Color Bar Equipment
The only way to get your color to lighten is by using bleach. Using a lighter hair color does have some bleach in it to lighten, just a lower level of it. If you were to use a hair color (and you'd have to use either a medium or light blonde haircolor) you would probably only lighten to a dark strawberry blonde.

If you want actual blonde highlights you would definitely need to bleach it first. It may even need 2 bleach processes and you'd most likely need to leave it on for at least an hour

Also remember that any time you lighten or highlight, yyou will need to repeat this process once roots grow in.

I'm totally a DIY hair colorer, but even I would suggest going to a salon if you're going to do highlights.

Good luck!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using CurlTalk App
Originally Posted by iroc
thanks for replying, that's super helpful. yeah im reallyyyy into DIY but i might have the salon do it the first time and see if they can get it right lol. HOWEVER first im gonna try all-over lightening using honey. (ha) i just want it a couple shades lighter with some extra-blond streaks for definition. so maybe ill use honey and THEN get highlights, or i may just stop at honey (if it works.) has anyone tried honey? and how light can you get, is there a limit? cuz ive only seen really subtle results...has anyone kept at it and achieved SUPER light hair color?
Agree you can only go lighter with peroxide/ bleach - honey is a very mild source of peroxide, box dyes also contain peroxide. In and of itself lightening from dark blonde to honey blonde should not be that damaging because it's only a few shades.

The problem comes when the damage is compounded, hair down at your waist may have little to no cuticle left simply through the passage of time, hair that is straightened either by heat or chemicals will also be damaged, if you intend to have more streaks later to hit your roots there is every chance some of the hair will get double processed.

I highly recommend you buy a 'sacrificial' blonde box dye and do strand tests on shed hair to see what colour you might expect and how damaged the hair becomes. When you have the hair lightened, flat iron it a good few times, if indeed that is how you currently straighten, then see how strong it is. You may not go strawberry blonde, you may not have much red undertones in your hair, many dirty blondes do not we are cool/ ashy/ mousey.

The least damaging way of lifting is to bleach over coconut oil soaked hair. This is actually beneficial for any damaged or porous hair but may not absorb if your hair is coated in silicones.
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Boots Essentials gel
Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
Experimenting with: benign neglect
Agree you can only go lighter with peroxide/ bleach - honey is a very mild source of peroxide, box dyes also contain peroxide. In and of itself lightening from dark blonde to honey blonde should not be that damaging because it's only a few shades.

The problem comes when the damage is compounded, hair down at your waist may have little to no cuticle left simply through the passage of time, hair that is straightened either by heat or chemicals will also be damaged, if you intend to have more streaks later to hit your roots there is every chance some of the hair will get double processed.

I highly recommend you buy a 'sacrificial' blonde box dye and do strand tests on shed hair to see what colour you might expect and how damaged the hair becomes. When you have the hair lightened, flat iron it a good few times, if indeed that is how you currently straighten, then see how strong it is. You may not go strawberry blonde, you may not have much red undertones in your hair, many dirty blondes do not we are cool/ ashy/ mousey.

The least damaging way of lifting is to bleach over coconut oil soaked hair. This is actually beneficial for any damaged or porous hair but may not absorb if your hair is coated in silicones.
Originally Posted by Firefox7275
thanks for the info and the coconut oil tip, ive always wanted to try coconut oil.
also, i take REALLY REALLY reallyyyyyy good care of my hair. i almost never use heat. like maybe once a month i used to straighten with a flat iron but ive stopped that because ive figured out a way to straighten without heat. ive never before used chemicals on my hair and i deep condition every week. im super super gentle with my hair and i snip off the few split ends and fairy knots that show up. so i think maybe a few highlights wont be that harmful. i just want the least damaging...so i think i'll maybe just go with semi-permanent dye? because its inserting pigment instead of taking it out. thats my theory so far anyway. but im still kinda on-the-fence because i'll have to keep getting them redone with semi-permanent dye, but with bleach, you do it once and you're done. and you can always just bleach the roots as they grow, i dont plan on bleaching already-bleached hair haha.
another thing...my hair actually has red undertones in it. its like a dingy reddish dark blonde. like the color of an old penny haha. but when it gets sun-bleached, its honey, sometimes strawberry-honey. if that makes any sense.
also, is there a significant difference between home-bleaching (like with straight hydrogen peroxide) and salon-bleaching? is one safer than the other? ive always wondered that lol
bleaching and coloring that on changes the skin tone and other, the hair color??
thanks for the info and the coconut oil tip, ive always wanted to try coconut oil.
also, i take REALLY REALLY reallyyyyyy good care of my hair. i almost never use heat. like maybe once a month i used to straighten with a flat iron but ive stopped that because ive figured out a way to straighten without heat. ive never before used chemicals on my hair and i deep condition every week. im super super gentle with my hair and i snip off the few split ends and fairy knots that show up. so i think maybe a few highlights wont be that harmful. i just want the least damaging...so i think i'll maybe just go with semi-permanent dye? because its inserting pigment instead of taking it out. thats my theory so far anyway. but im still kinda on-the-fence because i'll have to keep getting them redone with semi-permanent dye, but with bleach, you do it once and you're done. and you can always just bleach the roots as they grow, i dont plan on bleaching already-bleached hair haha.
another thing...my hair actually has red undertones in it. its like a dingy reddish dark blonde. like the color of an old penny haha. but when it gets sun-bleached, its honey, sometimes strawberry-honey. if that makes any sense.
Originally Posted by country_curly
If your hair is in great condition and not naturally porous, a semi permanent simply is unlikely to take, there is no way for the colour to get through the water resistant fatty f-layer nor under the cuticle and no space inside the hair for the colour molecules to lodge themselves. You certainly cannot lighten with a semi permanent as you have already been advised, you can only deposit a darker or similar shade.

If your hair is currently sun lightened then it is damaged, a semi permanent may take to those areas but again won't lighten just slightly change the tone. Shampoos containing SLS also damage the hair over time as does brushing and combing and even cotton pillowcases, however gentle you are. Even virgin hair has little to no fatty f-layer and little to no cuticle after a few years of growth.

also, is there a significant difference between home-bleaching (like with straight hydrogen peroxide) and salon-bleaching? is one safer than the other? ive always wondered that lol
Originally Posted by country_curly
You cannot purchase 100% hydrogen peroxide AFAIK but perhaps someone in your country will advise, nor would hydrogen peroxide alone easily lift your hair. Even box dyes have you mixing two bottles of chemical to create a reaction, the mixture is highly alkaline and this alone is also damaging but it's necessary to raise the cuticle and allow the bleach to penetrate.

At it's most basic any lifting home or salon is a mixture of persulphate bleach and peroxide developer. The amount of each used, the concentration (in the UK sold as 10 vol, 20 vol, 30 vol, 40 vol), the amount of heat used and the timeframe dictates how harsh the product is, how much damage it does.

Occasionally you can find acid based permanent dyes which again are supposed to be slightly gentler. Overall it is the formula that make a product gentler or harsher and of course the skill of application - knowing which areas to apply to first and which last - not home or salon products as such. Home wise ammonia free is supposed to be the gentlest but hey don't always 'take' as well, I use Garnier Nutrisse Radiant Blondes which is also sulphate surfactant free.

Another way of lifting the whole head in a slow and controlled manner is a 'soap cap' which is basically a persulphate/ peroxide mix heavily diluted with shampoo. Personally I wouldn't do it since shampoo damages/ irritates my skin but I can see how it is easier on the hair for newbies.

Again, strand tests and coconut oil.
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Boots Essentials gel
Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
Experimenting with: benign neglect
mkay...i think i may just go with a light bleach, cuz i like the color it turns when its bleached. and if i just bleach it, i will have gotten it over with. whereas with dye, i have to keep going back, keep exposing it to chemicals, and keep worrying about it possibly fading or looking nasty. and this will be after i do the honey thing for a couple months. i want to see if it will work. i know that if it does, it will be gradual, but im ok with that. and then after that subtle all-over lightening, i'll lightly bleach some thin highlights throughout my hair. and my hair's just gonna have to suck it up lol. (ill keep doing my deep conditioning treatments tho, and add protein treatments.)
and i dont know what a fatty f-layer is haha.
also...is it possible for color molecules to idk...escape?...like way after the bleaching process? cuz i used hydrogen peroxide like a year ago and i swear its lighter now than it was right after i bleached it. idk. correct me if im wrong. maybe the cuticle kinda stayed open?
mkay...i think i may just go with a light bleach, cuz i like the color it turns when its bleached. and if i just bleach it, i will have gotten it over with. whereas with dye, i have to keep going back, keep exposing it to chemicals, and keep worrying about it possibly fading or looking nasty. and this will be after i do the honey thing for a couple months. i want to see if it will work. i know that if it does, it will be gradual, but im ok with that. and then after that subtle all-over lightening, i'll lightly bleach some thin highlights throughout my hair. and my hair's just gonna have to suck it up lol. (ill keep doing my deep conditioning treatments tho, and add protein treatments.)
and i dont know what a fatty f-layer is haha.
also...is it possible for color molecules to idk...escape?...like way after the bleaching process? cuz i used hydrogen peroxide like a year ago and i swear its lighter now than it was right after i bleached it. idk. correct me if im wrong. maybe the cuticle kinda stayed open?
Originally Posted by country_curly
Yes the toner can wash out with time it's particularly seen with red fading, that is generally a sign your hair is porous/ damaged, washing too frequently or using too harsh products. You can just use a blonde semi permanent toner with no peroxide to correct that, no damage.

Do not bleach even with a weak solution over the top of the parts that are already bleached, once the melanin pigment has gone and the hair is already blonde the only thing for the peroxide to work on is the structural proteins so you would be doing nothing but damage.

The other way colour can fade is UV exposure, do you wear a hat or close weave scarf religiously all spring and summer? Most deep conditioners hydrate but they don't absorb, protect or repair. Great series on deep conditioning here
THE NATURAL HAVEN: Deep Conditioning : What Ingredients in Hair Conditioner Penetrate Hair?
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Boots Essentials gel
Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
Experimenting with: benign neglect
yeah it makes sense to not bleach the already-bleached parts. however, it really isnt that bleached. its ever-so-slightly lightened, so i think it'll be ok, esp since honey does ZERO damage and even makes hair healthier. im really cool with that.
and nooooo i dont wear a hat or a scarf on my hair, i think that's a little much. if i really cared that much i'd spray a UV spray on my hair but i dont color, so dont have any dye that might fade, and im not out in the sun for ridiculously long periods of time. but yeah, no way would i cover my head in the warm months, that would be super hot and annoying and my hair is never visibly more damaged, either.
thats a really good article, i love that blog so much.
yeah it makes sense to not bleach the already-bleached parts. however, it really isnt that bleached. its ever-so-slightly lightened, so i think it'll be ok, esp since honey does ZERO damage and even makes hair healthier. im really cool with that.
and nooooo i dont wear a hat or a scarf on my hair, i think that's a little much. if i really cared that much i'd spray a UV spray on my hair but i dont color, so dont have any dye that might fade, and im not out in the sun for ridiculously long periods of time. but yeah, no way would i cover my head in the warm months, that would be super hot and annoying and my hair is never visibly more damaged, either.
thats a really good article, i love that blog so much.
Originally Posted by country_curly
So you are only worried about visible damage? Then forget caring for your hair, just use products packed with silicones. They are excellent for imparting faux slip and shine and fool many a person into believing their hair is not damaged.

If any product lightens it destroys the melanin pigment, that leave voids in the structure of the hair: I don't see how it is physiologically possible for honey to lighten without damage and I've never seen a study backing that claim up. Honey is an excellent humectant, it certainly hydrates which is a temporary effect only so it does not make dead hair healthier.

UV light is proven to be very damaging to hair, particularly to lightened hair because it is already weakened and does not have the protection of the pigment, just as UV is more damaging to light skin. Never seen a hair protection product which claims any worthwhile SPF and the amount you would apply is no way enough to make any significant difference - think about the recommended amount of a high factor sunscreen you need to slather on your skin.

Your call, I'm done.
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Boots Essentials gel
Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
Experimenting with: benign neglect

Last edited by Firefox7275; 05-16-2013 at 04:25 AM.
yeah it makes sense to not bleach the already-bleached parts. however, it really isnt that bleached. its ever-so-slightly lightened, so i think it'll be ok, esp since honey does ZERO damage and even makes hair healthier. im really cool with that.
and nooooo i dont wear a hat or a scarf on my hair, i think that's a little much. if i really cared that much i'd spray a UV spray on my hair but i dont color, so dont have any dye that might fade, and im not out in the sun for ridiculously long periods of time. but yeah, no way would i cover my head in the warm months, that would be super hot and annoying and my hair is never visibly more damaged, either.
thats a really good article, i love that blog so much.
Originally Posted by country_curly
So you are only worried about visible damage? Then forget caring for your hair, just use products packed with silicones. They are excellent for imparting faux slip and shine and fool many a person into believing their hair is not damaged.

If any product lightens it destroys the melanin pigment, that leave voids in the structure of the hair: I don't see how it is physiologically possible for honey to lighten without damage and I've never seen a study backing that claim up. Honey is an excellent humectant, it certainly hydrates which is a temporary effect only so it does not make dead hair healthier.

UV light is proven to be very damaging to hair, particularly to lightened hair because it is already weakened and does not have the protection of the pigment, just as UV is more damaging to light skin. Never seen a hair protection product which claims any worthwhile SPF and the amount you would apply is no way enough to make any significant difference - think about the recommended amount of a high factor sunscreen you need to slather on your skin.

Your call, I'm done.
Originally Posted by Firefox7275
Silicones are not that bad. I've been using them since I was a child and my hair has been doing fine.
Silicones are not that bad. I've been using them since I was a child and my hair has been doing fine.
Originally Posted by BeautyisMiree
When did I say they were 'bad'? The word I actually used was 'excellent'.
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Boots Essentials gel
Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
Experimenting with: benign neglect
Silicones are not that bad. I've been using them since I was a child and my hair has been doing fine.
Originally Posted by BeautyisMiree
When did I say they were 'bad'? The word I actually used was 'excellent'.
Originally Posted by Firefox7275
You're making it seem as if the OP doesn't care about her hair and all the things you listed are "damaging".
You're making it seem as if the OP doesn't care about her hair and all the things you listed are "damaging".
Originally Posted by BeautyisMiree
Only if you translate the word 'excellent' to mean bad or damaging which is frankly laughable! Try reading what I actually posted NOT leaping to erroneous conclusions about what you imagine I mean. Also note my use of paragraphs which generally denote a shift of topic, I did NOT write a list as you claim.

Ingredients can be beneficial, neutral or detrimental; they can also be beneficial to one head of hair yet detrimental to another head of hair, hydrolysed protein is a prime example. Silicones are king for faux slip and shine, also king for heat protection.
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Boots Essentials gel
Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
Experimenting with: benign neglect
The only way to get your color to lighten is by using bleach. Using a lighter hair color does have some bleach in it to lighten, just a lower level of it. If you were to use a hair color (and you'd have to use either a medium or light blonde haircolor) you would probably only lighten to a dark strawberry blonde.

If you want actual blonde highlights you would definitely need to bleach it first. It may even need 2 bleach processes and you'd most likely need to leave it on for at least an hour

Also remember that any time you lighten or highlight, yyou will need to repeat this process once roots grow in.

I'm totally a DIY hair colorer, but even I would suggest going to a salon if you're going to do highlights.



Good luck!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using CurlTalk App
Originally Posted by iroc

This! I have a TON of experience with DIY coloring too (including dark brown to blonde color corrections and vice versa) and the one the thing I would never even try to do myself is highlights. Because with most color processes, it's mainly about the chemistry, mixing, timing, etc. But with highlights, it's all about the technique, the placement of the highlights and a lot of things that would be very difficult to do on yourself, even with tons of coloring experience. As far as damage goes, my hair has never gotten very damaged from just highlighting. I'm sure others might beg to differ, but I think as long as you take proper care of your hair a few highlights (if done correctly) shouldn't wreak too much havoc.
It sounds to me like the word 'bleach' is being used for any product that lightens hair.

This is not really true.

Bleach is a chemical that does not have any pigments. It is mixed with a developer (peroxide + stabilizing chemicals), that opens the hair cuticle and lightens hair, exposing the underlying natural pigments which are generally a dark orange to pale yellow, depending on how long you leave the bleach on, and how powerful the developer is. Developer is graded by volume of peroxide.. 10 volume up to 40 volume.. The stronger the developer, the quicker it works and the farther it will go in lightening.

Some hair is so dark, it requires more than one application of bleach to bring it to a pale yellow. Sometimes the hair is too sensitive to get it to that level and it will not hold up to that kind of damage.

Toner is then applied to tone out the orangey or yellowey tones.

This is called a 2 step process for obvious reasons.

Permanent colour has chemicals in it that, when a developer (peroxide) is added, will lighten hair to a certain extent depending on the volume developer used. This product also contains artificial pigments which oxidize within the hair shaft and are permanently embedded in your hair. These pigments can eventually fall out or fade. Generally they will never come all the way out on their own, and permanent colour is not strong enough to remove them.

The general rule for when to use bleach and when to use colour:

First determine the number of levels of lift you want to achieve.
Use the swatches in the salon to find your natural level and look at the colour you want. If your dark blonde is about a level 7 (I am guessing) and you want level 9 highlights (really nice result) you will have 2 levels of lift you need.

To get 3 levels of lift or less, you can use permanent colour, with great results.

To get more than 3 levels of lift you need to use bleach unless you are a level 6, or a level 5 with fine hair.You can get 4 levels of lift with a hi-lift blonde in most professional colours.

High lift blonde is permanent colour that has boosted ability to lighten hair. I'm guessing most permanent lines probably have a hi-lift series.. The colour company I worked for had one. (Goldwell)

People with darker, coarser hair may not be able to get a full three levels of lift with permanent hair colour. The ability for hair to lift is based on texture and the natural level. Porous hair is really easy to lighten, whereas really shiny tight cuticle hair is very difficult.

With hair that is already blonde, there is NO WAY you need to use something as harsh as bleach!
Permanent colour will work great unless you have cuticle made of steel.

If the highlights go brassy after a while, you can use a toning mousse to drab out the gold. It won't damage your hair as all it has is pigments and conditioner in it.

I hope this helps.
lexiinamor likes this.

Last edited by SusieSuze; 05-24-2013 at 11:02 PM.
It sounds to me like the word 'bleach' is being used for any product that lightens hair.

This is not really true.

Bleach is a chemical that does not have any pigments. It is mixed with a developer (peroxide + stabilizing chemicals), that opens the hair cuticle and lightens hair, exposing the underlying natural pigments which are generally a dark orange to pale yellow, depending on how long you leave the bleach on, and how powerful the developer is. Developer is graded by volume of peroxide.. 10 volume up to 40 volume.. The stronger the developer, the quicker it works and the farther it will go in lightening.

Some hair is so dark, it requires more than one application of bleach to bring it to a pale yellow. Sometimes the hair is too sensitive to get it to that level and it will not hold up to that kind of damage.

Toner is then applied to tone out the orangey or yellowey tones.

This is called a 2 step process for obvious reasons.

Permanent colour has chemicals in it that, when a developer (peroxide) is added, will lighten hair to a certain extent depending on the volume developer used. This product also contains artificial pigments which oxidize within the hair shaft and are permanently embedded in your hair. These pigments can eventually fall out or fade. Generally they will never come all the way out on their own, and permanent colour is not strong enough to remove them.

The general rule for when to use bleach and when to use colour:

First determine the number of levels of lift you want to achieve.
Use the swatches in the salon to find your natural level and look at the colour you want. If your dark blonde is about a level 7 (I am guessing) and you want level 9 highlights (really nice result) you will have 2 levels of lift you need.

To get 3 levels of lift or less, you can use permanent colour, with great results.

To get more than 3 levels of lift you need to use bleach unless you are a level 6, or a level 5 with fine hair.You can get 4 levels of lift with a hi-lift blonde in most professional colours.

High lift blonde is permanent colour that has boosted ability to lighten hair. I'm guessing most permanent lines probably have a hi-lift series.. The colour company I worked for had one. (Goldwell)

People with darker, coarser hair may not be able to get a full three levels of lift with permanent hair colour. The ability for hair to lift is based on texture and the natural level. Porous hair is really easy to lighten, whereas really shiny tight cuticle hair is very difficult.

With hair that is already blonde, there is NO WAY you need to use something as harsh as bleach!
Permanent colour will work great unless you have cuticle made of steel.

If the highlights go brassy after a while, you can use a toning mousse to drab out the gold. It won't damage your hair as all it has is pigments and conditioner in it.

I hope this helps.
Originally Posted by SusieSuze
you are the freakin BOMB. everything i needed to know and it was actually readable too. thanks soooo much
SusieSuze and lexiinamor like this.

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