New DevaCurl One Condition ingredients

Although I wish there were a drug that would make me follow along more often without questioning (as do my boyfriend & coworkers) because it would make my life ALOT easier, I tend to be a reader & (over)analyzer. I don't see this as a "whole can of worms" - I see it as a "mislabeled bottle of product".

I tell the teens I work with to admit they made a mistake and then correct it. I think Deva admitted that the new One Condition was mislabeled, shared the new ingredients, and now promised to properly label all future changes in products/formulas.

Did they make a stupid (dangerous for people with allergies!) mistake/decision - yes! Are they the most evil company on the planet? I like to think not b/c I like their message about curl & self love and if they are bad I have to stop using their products.

Okay - so I will stop being all "kumbaya/peace & love" now and go read the thread about which towels to use b/c now I'm reading that regular towels are bad and I don't have any old t-shirts to use! I need to stop reading all these threads... but I do love having found this whole community of people who love & value their curls.
Originally Posted by Curly & Sweet
Unfortunately, this is not the first experience many of us have had with Deva Concepts and deplorable customer service. Last year, there were issues when the DevaFuser was released separately from the DevaSun Dryer. Here's just one thread:

devafuser Q

If you are comfortable with the way they do business, it's your choice whether or not you buy their products. Since this is one more example of how they do business, many people won't.

BTW, I've been told by a few people in the business that it's not legal to use the old labels.
Originally Posted by kathymack
Kathymack, thank you for posting this! I had almost forgotten about that incident. It certainly helps to establish a pattern of lousy customer service -- or worse yet, a disregard for the people who keep them in business.
3a and strictly CG since August 2007. Porous and on the fine side. No to magnesium sulfate and glycerin. Yes to protein! Favorites:
CO-WASHES: Suave Coconut
CONDITIONERS and LEAVE-INS: Mop Top Daily Conditioner, KBB Nectar, Aubrey GPB or Island Naturals, Robert Craig, Any Jessicurl
CURL ENHANCERS/CREMES/MOUSSES: KCCC, JoiWhip
GELS: Fuzzy Duck, B5 Design, MGA Scultping, BRHG


Fotki password: chuckle
Blog: http://jillipoo.blogspot.com/
Twitter: nopoojillipoo
So out of curiousity, I decided to call the FDA to find out what was legal regarding labels. I was told by an FDA representative that using inaccurate labels wasn't legal and that all products needed to reflect the correct ingredient list on the bottle or label. The person I spoke to was unaware of any FDA loophole that allowed companies to use old packaging in order to minimize waste.
I've never used any of their products but their sneakiness and other issue people have had with them has made me decide to never even consider using a single thing they make.
"...just because you're paranoid doesn't mean that there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face." ~Harry Dresden

So out of curiousity, I decided to call the FDA to find out what was legal regarding labels. I was told by an FDA representative that using inaccurate labels wasn't legal and that all products needed to reflect the correct ingredient list on the bottle or label. The person I spoke to was unaware of any FDA loophole that allowed companies to use old packaging in order to minimize waste.
Originally Posted by vik
Good for you, vik! I was dying to do that but I didn't want to look like I've got some sort of vendetta against Deva ( because despite my blog postings and my forum postings, I really do not!). I'm glad you made that effort, as I'm sure many of us are
3a and strictly CG since August 2007. Porous and on the fine side. No to magnesium sulfate and glycerin. Yes to protein! Favorites:
CO-WASHES: Suave Coconut
CONDITIONERS and LEAVE-INS: Mop Top Daily Conditioner, KBB Nectar, Aubrey GPB or Island Naturals, Robert Craig, Any Jessicurl
CURL ENHANCERS/CREMES/MOUSSES: KCCC, JoiWhip
GELS: Fuzzy Duck, B5 Design, MGA Scultping, BRHG


Fotki password: chuckle
Blog: http://jillipoo.blogspot.com/
Twitter: nopoojillipoo
So out of curiousity, I decided to call the FDA to find out what was legal regarding labels. I was told by an FDA representative that using inaccurate labels wasn't legal and that all products needed to reflect the correct ingredient list on the bottle or label. The person I spoke to was unaware of any FDA loophole that allowed companies to use old packaging in order to minimize waste.
Originally Posted by vik

Thanks so much for doing this! I knew it had to be illegal! After all, isn't one of the points of the ingredients label to warn people about ingredients to which they may be allergic??

The more I think about this, the more upset I become with them...I mean, seriously...you risk people having allergic reactions to save on labels???
Although I wish there were a drug that would make me follow along more often without questioning (as do my boyfriend & coworkers) because it would make my life ALOT easier, I tend to be a reader & (over)analyzer. I don't see this as a "whole can of worms" - I see it as a "mislabeled bottle of product".

I tell the teens I work with to admit they made a mistake and then correct it. I think Deva admitted that the new One Condition was mislabeled, shared the new ingredients, and now promised to properly label all future changes in products/formulas.

Did they make a stupid (dangerous for people with allergies!) mistake/decision - yes! Are they the most evil company on the planet? I like to think not b/c I like their message about curl & self love and if they are bad I have to stop using their products.

Okay - so I will stop being all "kumbaya/peace & love" now and go read the thread about which towels to use b/c now I'm reading that regular towels are bad and I don't have any old t-shirts to use! I need to stop reading all these threads... but I do love having found this whole community of people who love & value their curls.
Originally Posted by Curly & Sweet
I completely agree, especially with the parts I bolded. I hardly think that this whole thing makes Deva "evil" or bad. I love their products, and I'm sure they'll get the labeling issues worked out. I just don't see it as that big of an issue, and I hadn't replied to any part of this discussion till Curly & Sweet's post, because I felt like I'd be the only one who felt that way.
CG since 1/09. Protein and Mag Sulfate sensitive.
Hair Type - 3A.
Co-wash - Jane Carter Solution Nutrient Replenishing Conditioner.
Low-poo as needed - Beautiful Curls Curl Enhancing Shampoo.
Cond./Leave-In - Beautiful Curls Curl Enhancing Shea Butter Leave-In Conditioner.
Stylers - Jane Carter Solution Condition and Sculpt; Beautiful Curls Curl Defining Gel.
I just learned something interesting about hair care products and labeling from a person who has been in the business for years.

Apparently, what Deva is doing with their labels is not unusual. In fact, it is standard (though the legality of it from an FDA standpoint is still a little murky). Whenever a formulation changes, there's a brief period when labels and contents are not in total alignment. Most companies just quietly go about this process, using up old labels until new ones are ready, etc. Sounds like it is a practice that the FDA turns a blind eye to...

So, I don't think Deva is trying to pull a fast one on us, necessarily. They are probably just too naive to have kept their mouths shut about a practice that every other company undertakes quietly! (Please note that I am not endorsing any of these practices or defending anybody -- I am merely conveying the information that I learned from an industry insider.)

Just further evidence that Deva *really* needs a good PR firm.
3a and strictly CG since August 2007. Porous and on the fine side. No to magnesium sulfate and glycerin. Yes to protein! Favorites:
CO-WASHES: Suave Coconut
CONDITIONERS and LEAVE-INS: Mop Top Daily Conditioner, KBB Nectar, Aubrey GPB or Island Naturals, Robert Craig, Any Jessicurl
CURL ENHANCERS/CREMES/MOUSSES: KCCC, JoiWhip
GELS: Fuzzy Duck, B5 Design, MGA Scultping, BRHG


Fotki password: chuckle
Blog: http://jillipoo.blogspot.com/
Twitter: nopoojillipoo
So, I don't think Deva is trying to pull a fast one on us, necessarily. They are probably just too naive to have kept their mouths shut about a practice that every other company undertakes quietly! (Please note that I am not endorsing any of these practices or defending anybody -- I am merely conveying the information that I learned from an industry insider.)

Just further evidence that Deva *really* needs a good PR firm.
Originally Posted by jillipoo
So, not evil - just dumb. Good to know, thanks!
CG since 1/09. Protein and Mag Sulfate sensitive.
Hair Type - 3A.
Co-wash - Jane Carter Solution Nutrient Replenishing Conditioner.
Low-poo as needed - Beautiful Curls Curl Enhancing Shampoo.
Cond./Leave-In - Beautiful Curls Curl Enhancing Shea Butter Leave-In Conditioner.
Stylers - Jane Carter Solution Condition and Sculpt; Beautiful Curls Curl Defining Gel.
So, I don't think Deva is trying to pull a fast one on us, necessarily. They are probably just too naive to have kept their mouths shut about a practice that every other company undertakes quietly! (Please note that I am not endorsing any of these practices or defending anybody -- I am merely conveying the information that I learned from an industry insider.)

Just further evidence that Deva *really* needs a good PR firm.
Originally Posted by jillipoo
So, not evil - just dumb. Good to know, thanks!
Originally Posted by LisaF1163
Dumb. Yes.
3a and strictly CG since August 2007. Porous and on the fine side. No to magnesium sulfate and glycerin. Yes to protein! Favorites:
CO-WASHES: Suave Coconut
CONDITIONERS and LEAVE-INS: Mop Top Daily Conditioner, KBB Nectar, Aubrey GPB or Island Naturals, Robert Craig, Any Jessicurl
CURL ENHANCERS/CREMES/MOUSSES: KCCC, JoiWhip
GELS: Fuzzy Duck, B5 Design, MGA Scultping, BRHG


Fotki password: chuckle
Blog: http://jillipoo.blogspot.com/
Twitter: nopoojillipoo
Lisa - thanks for jumping in I starting to think I was naive or one of the last people who still wants to believe the best about people (especially curly hair supporters).
Jillipoo - I never thought you were against Deva - you have a lot of posts on a lot of threads and are always just trying to find out the truth.

I think Deva is still a young company - didn't they just start from Lorraine & the salons? - vs. a big cosmetics corporation. So, like you - I think they need to get a PR department (and maybe a legal department). I kept wanting to email them (like you did) or even better - go to NYC!, and say, "Do you know what they are saying about you?! You need to respond!"

Thanks for being on top of it (and sharing your "insider knowledge"). Hopefully, they will learn something from this whole crazy thing!

(I don't mean to "keep their mouths shut" like the other guys - I mean the PR/labeling/allergies stuff!)
The new ingredient list for DevaCurl One Condition is:

Water (Aqua), Cetearyl Alcohol, Behentrimonium Chloride, Glycerin, Glycol Distearate, Cetyl Esters, Guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium Chloride, Oleo Europaea (Olive) Fruit Oil, Melissa Officinalis (Balm Mint) Extract, Humulus Lupulus (Hops) Extract, Cymbopogon Schoenanthus (Lemongrass) Extract, Chamomilla Recutita (Matricia) Extract, Rosmarinus Officinalis (Rosemary) Extract, Achillea Millefolium (Yarrow) Extract, Propylene Glycol, Cetrimonium Chloride, Citric Acid, Diazolidinyl Urea, Iodopropynyl Butylcarbamate, Fragrance (Parfum).


Old ingredients:

Aqueous Extracts of: Achilea Millefolium, Chamomilla Recutita (Matricaria), Cymbopogon Schoenanthus, Humulus Lupulus (Hops), Melissa Offcinalis (Balm Mint), Rosmarinus Offcinalis (Rosemary), Cetearyl Alcohol, Behentrimonium Chloride, Glycerin, Amodimethicone, Olive Oil, Cetrimonium Chloride, Cetyl Esters, Propylene Glycol, Trideceth-12, Diazolidinyl Urea, Methyl Paraben, Propyl Paraben, Fragrance
WTH is this:Guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium Chloride
WTH is this:Guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium Chloride
Originally Posted by Johnboy
It's a cationic polymer. See

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guar_hy...onium_chloride

and

http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlre...-care-products

It helps hair to lay flat (although not *straight* flat, thank goodness) and make it softer, smoother, and easier to comb. But some people report that it can be be harder to remove than expected.
3a and strictly CG since August 2007. Porous and on the fine side. No to magnesium sulfate and glycerin. Yes to protein! Favorites:
CO-WASHES: Suave Coconut
CONDITIONERS and LEAVE-INS: Mop Top Daily Conditioner, KBB Nectar, Aubrey GPB or Island Naturals, Robert Craig, Any Jessicurl
CURL ENHANCERS/CREMES/MOUSSES: KCCC, JoiWhip
GELS: Fuzzy Duck, B5 Design, MGA Scultping, BRHG


Fotki password: chuckle
Blog: http://jillipoo.blogspot.com/
Twitter: nopoojillipoo
ahh, oh no, some people probably don't know squat from plop. and i think warm water is better for the cowash, so there.
WTH is this:Guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium Chloride
Originally Posted by Johnboy
It's a cationic polymer. See

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guar_hy...onium_chloride

and

http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlre...-care-products

It helps hair to lay flat (although not *straight* flat, thank goodness) and make it softer, smoother, and easier to comb. But some people report that it can be be harder to remove than expected.
Originally Posted by jillipoo
so is it water soluble? or do you need to do a low poo to remove it?
[FONT="Arial Narrow"]
3a, some 2c & 3b, medium texture, porosity normal, low elasticity
washing/cowashing, conditioning, protein tx: curl junkie products
leave in:cj conditioners and treatments as leave in
styling: cj pattern pusha, cj honey butta leave in, cj cccc, cj ciab, lalsg. cj aloe fix gel is my high dews/summer HG!!
sealants - spiral solutions emollience butter, jane carter nourish & shine
WTH is this:Guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium Chloride
Originally Posted by Johnboy
It's a cationic polymer. See

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guar_hy...onium_chloride

and

http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlre...-care-products

It helps hair to lay flat (although not *straight* flat, thank goodness) and make it softer, smoother, and easier to comb. But some people report that it can be be harder to remove than expected.
Originally Posted by jillipoo
so is it water soluble? or do you need to do a low poo to remove it?
Originally Posted by rbb
Water-soluble.
3a and strictly CG since August 2007. Porous and on the fine side. No to magnesium sulfate and glycerin. Yes to protein! Favorites:
CO-WASHES: Suave Coconut
CONDITIONERS and LEAVE-INS: Mop Top Daily Conditioner, KBB Nectar, Aubrey GPB or Island Naturals, Robert Craig, Any Jessicurl
CURL ENHANCERS/CREMES/MOUSSES: KCCC, JoiWhip
GELS: Fuzzy Duck, B5 Design, MGA Scultping, BRHG


Fotki password: chuckle
Blog: http://jillipoo.blogspot.com/
Twitter: nopoojillipoo
Cut and paste from the Curly Chemist article that was linked:

Cationic Polymers

Positively charged polymers that provide silkening and smoothing effects by adhering to the surface of the hair due to the hairís overall negative charge

Polyquaternium-10
Polyquaternium-7
Polyquaternium-11
Guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride
I have a major problem with all the polyquats listed above so I would gather that the Guar hc would give me the same troubles. They dry my hair and they build up quickly and I need a sulfate shampoo to completely remove them. Some curlies may be able to no or low poo them out, but that has not been my experience.

This would help explain why my hair no likey the One-C. I sure hope ULTA takes returns on hair products.
so it may or may not build up, and it may or may not be water-soluble, depending on your hair type?
so much for ingredient knowledge -- i'm finding it's still a matter of trial & error for each person.
[FONT="Arial Narrow"]
3a, some 2c & 3b, medium texture, porosity normal, low elasticity
washing/cowashing, conditioning, protein tx: curl junkie products
leave in:cj conditioners and treatments as leave in
styling: cj pattern pusha, cj honey butta leave in, cj cccc, cj ciab, lalsg. cj aloe fix gel is my high dews/summer HG!!
sealants - spiral solutions emollience butter, jane carter nourish & shine
Not to mention this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behentrimonium_chloride

This is listed high up on the new ingredient list.

edit: actually according to skin deep the above chemical is not so bad but the Iodopropynyl Butylcarbamate is pretty nasty.



Last edited by bronislava; 05-05-2009 at 05:48 PM.
bump

3b/a


I like my microfiber towel and plopping

http://clubedoscachos.blogspot.com/
No comb,blow-fried, sulfates,silicones detangle Only the [/SIZE]fingers!!

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