The Devachan Hair Cut is not “Natural” in ANY WAY

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The Devash*t Hair Cut is not “Natural” in ANY WAY.

I am 51 yrs old. I have curly hair, somewhere between 3b and 3a. I was lucky to have good stylists most of my life until the past 5 years (they retired.) I have never had a problem styling my curly hair—as long as it is cut correctly.

I had my first, and last, Devash*t cut yesterday.

I wish someone had warned me that, if you choose the Devash*t cut, you will be forced into using a ton of gel in your hair, every day and your hair will look FAKE--as if you are wearing clip-on, PLASTIC curls.

Further, if you want to wear your hair straight – forget it. You will not be able to blow-it out straight so it looks good and, if you want to wear it curly without gel, forget it – you can’t do that either.

The Devash*t cut is the WORST cut I have ever had. The only reason that this cut “works” is because curly hair is very forgiving when you wear it curly with enough product.

I told the stylist that I wanted the option of wearing my hair “curly” or “straight.” I said that the biggest problem I have, is stylists that insist on cutting the top layer of hair the same length or shorter than, the hair that lies below.

If a stylist does not understand that the top layer of hair shrinks and that it needs to be cut longer than the lower layers, you will end-up with a PYRAMID. The stylist assured me that she understood the “pyramid” problem.

I could not have been clearer about NOT wanting to have the hair that grows from the top layer of my head cut shorter than the rest of my hair. I did agree to a few, face framing cuts. I even brought pictures of my various states of hair distress.

Also, I showed the stylist pictures and, we discussed the common “rat-tail” problem – STILL GOT A TON OF THEM. I cannot believe what a mess my hair is. I cannot believe that anyone would make it look this bad.

It’s going to take another six months to grow this mess out of my hair. I am extremely p’d-off. The TRIANGLE has got WORSE.

As far as I’m concerned, if you want a Devash*t cut, get a pair of scissors and go at like a psycho ‘cause that’s what you will end-up looking like – unless, of course, as I said before, you want to put a ton of gel in your hair, every day and look as if you are wearing clip-on, PLASTIC curls.

In addition, I went out after my appointment and could not wait to get home and wash the gunk out of my hair. Unfortunately, one of the products still STINKS and it is 24 hours later. Gross.

The stylist also used “Curl Keeper” gel which I do not like. I told the stylist that I do not like “CRUNCH” products. It’s not as bad as some other products but it’s still gross.

Curl Keeper also contains DMDM Hydantoin which is a very toxic ingredient. A 9 out of 10 Hazard rating from the Environmental Working Group site, Skin Deep. I’ll take silicone over DMDM Hydantoin any day.

If you want real answers about the ingredients in products that you use, I suggest that you go to the following websites:

http://www.cosmeticsdatabase.com/ingredient/702196/DMDM_HYDANTOIN/

DMDM Hydantoin :
§ Known human immune system toxicant
§ Human skin toxicant - strong evidence

Dimethicone only has a 3 out 10 hazard rating – so everyone telling you how “bad” silicones are- are full of crap. Are these people chemists? NO. But, the following may be:

http://thebeautybrains.com/2007/02/16/does-silicone-suffocate-hair/

REASONS WHY SILICONE CAN’T SUFFOCATE HAIR:
1) Even if you didn’t wash all the silicone out, we’ve never seen any data that indicates that a small amount of silicone residue acts as a “barrier” between hair shaft and moisture. On average, your hair contains about 8 to 14% water by weight but it will equilibrate to the ambient humidity. In other words, it will pick up moisture when it’s very humid and it will lose moisture when it’s very dry. Slight silicone residue won’t substantially change that. Now, if you slather on a heavy layer of a silicone hair treatment product, that’s a different story!

2) Even though your hair absorbs moisture from the environment, its state of dryness isn’t completely controlled by this external water. Dryness is more a function of how damaged your hair is and how much natural lipids it contains.

3) Even if you did block your hair from absorbing moisture, the silicone would act like a moisturizing agent because it would plasticize and lubricate your hair. It would essentially fight the effects of dryness.

If you use a silicone containing product and you like the way it makes your hair look and feel, DONT WORRY ABOUT IT! Don’t feel guilty because some people tell you that it’s bad for your hair. Oil products like Ojon can work too if you don’t want to use silicone.

(Personally, I style my hair curly using Bed Head, Head Shrink Gel (green gel) mixed with a tiny bit of 100% Dessert Essence Jojoba oil and a tiny bit of water. The Bed Head smells terrific and the hair is soft. The Bed Head also conditions the hair and it stays soft even after you wash it-no build-up.)

Finally, if you have to use a ton of product and your hair does not feel NATURAL -- I wish people would say so when they post. I had this cut based on the good reviews from this site. Horribly disappointed.

I will post pics when I get a chance - curly (with a ton of crap in it) and straight- it's horrific
Hmm. I was always under the assumption that the top layer should be cut shorter than the bottom layers. I get "pyramid-head" when my ends are all at the same length when my hair is dry. Since my hair has so much volume, it looks like a flat bottom of my hairstyle. If they cut the top layers longer and they shrunk up to match with your bottom layers, I would think that that would make the triangle problem worse.

For example: here my hair is pretty triangle-y. My top layers are the same length as my bottom layers when dry



And here is it when the top layers are cut shorter. More rounded, no flat bottom:



Now, neither of these are deva cuts, but I've had a Devacut at the actual Devachan salon before and I didn't come out with triangle head. Where did you get your cut done? Some stylists go to a couple-day long training session to get Deva certified, but that doesn't mean your stylist was doing the cut correctly.

I'm sorry you got a bad cut and I understand the amount of anger you must be feeling right now, but this type of cutting and product application has worked well for many people on this site. I'll be interested to see the pictures to see if it's really as bad as you say. You say that you got the cut based on good reviews from this site -- was it good reviews of this stylist or just the Deva cut in particular?

As for the problem you had with the products the stylist used -- Curlkeeper never really worked well for me either, but I find that my hair can feel very "natural" and not plastic-y at all if I use gel as long as I scrunch out the crunch once my hair is dry. The gel basically acts to keep my hair from frizzing while it's in the drying process, and once my hair is completely dry I can scrunch it out and be left with very soft, natural feeling hair.

And as for silicones -- it's true that a small amount of silicone won't suffocate your hair. It's just that a lot of people on this site don't use sulfate shampoos regularly and the silicones can build up over time. This actually happened to me. I went through a phase where I was like "Pssssht. It's not gonna hurt anything," and I used silicone hairsprays and conditioners every day and still considering myself "CG" by not using shampoo ever. After a few months of this I was wondering why my hair was feeling so dry and why my curls weren't as tight as they used to be, and when I went in for a haircut at an Aveda salon, the stylist scraped one of my hairs with a razor and all of this white stuff came off -- it was layers and layers of buildup. Once I got this stuff off of my hair and started making sure it was well-moisturized, my hair started looking and feeling a lot better.

So there's nothing really wrong with silicones as long as you're prepared to wash them off with sulfates regularly.

I'm sorry you got a bad cut. I would recommend playing around with products until you find something that doesn't make your hair feel too coated. We'd be able to give you more recommendations if you could tell us what your hair is like and what products have worked well for you in the past. Just don't give up on this site yet. You'll find that most people on this site aren't slavish to the Deva method.
I'm sorry that you did not like your cut. Many here have had them and do like them, but, you are stuck with the skill of the individual stylist no matter what technique they use.

I interpret "plastic clip on" as curls with a lot of definition. That is a look that some here go for because it tend to reduce frizz or impart some sense of control. These folks do use stylers and gels. Some prefer a more "natural" or free/wild look, and they use fewer products.

Some here also use certain silicones. I have a conditioner and a gel with them.

I feel that EWG is over the top alarmist, so I don't put too much worth into what they say.

Feel free to post pictures and to let us know how you would like your curls to look and what, if any, products you are using now. Perhaps some of the curlies here have been in your shoes and can help out.
Narelle likes this.
Kiva! Microfinance works.

Med/Coarse, porous curly.
Hmm. I was always under the assumption that the top layer should be cut shorter than the bottom layers. I get "pyramid-head" when my ends are all at the same length when my hair is dry.
Originally Posted by lizzlebelizzle
I find the same thing on me actually. I prefer the top layers to be shorter so I get more spring and so I don't get pyramid head.
Narelle likes this.
Kiva! Microfinance works.

Med/Coarse, porous curly.
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Last edited by ...; 07-17-2010 at 02:35 PM.
I was going to type out a nice response, but I wouldn't really say anything different than anything the previous wonderful ladies have already said.

Perhaps its about the particular stylist rather than the method?

On a side note -- Lizzle, you are so freaking adorable I want to cry in jealousy. You are unbelievably cute and so is your hair! You make pyramid head look fabu.

I also kinda understand what the OP is saying about top layers vs bottom layers. Quite a few curlies do want their top layers to be shorter -- but if you have a curlier top than bottom layer -- believe me, you need something a little different. My top layer shrinks up tons more than the bottom layers. So my cut needs to be adjusted. If you cut the top and bottom layers the same, my top would shrink up so that it would LOOK like the top layer was shorter. I can only assume this is why the OP would want that particular hair cut. Since she(possibly he?) doesn't describe her/his hair, in detail, I can only guess.

I find it odd that both the Beauty Brains and The cosmetics database were both referenced -- those websites are pretty much diametrically opposed! They are on opposite ends of the spectrum I think.

I guess I did have more to add. Lalala~ I'll move along now.
Narelle likes this.
Grand Goobah Caedran, Aqueous Infusion of Demulcents, Order of the Curly Crusaders

Fia 2cFi, fine texture, med porosity CG 5-29-09 * My hair loves protein! Currently using : DermOrganics Shampoo and IHM, G2B Kinkier Mousse, Re:Coil VMM, Anything Spiral Solutions! MO Sealing. Coconut Oil Pre-Poo, once a month Hard Water shampoo. Avoiding Glycerin in finishing products.

Perhaps its about the particular stylist rather than the method?
ITA just because you go to a so called "DEVA" stylist, there are no guarantees. I've had some of my worst and best cuts from people that trained with Deva. Some followed it to a T others put their own spin on it. Frankly the ones that put their own spin on it worked out better!

Attending a few seminars, brought to you by "DEVA" doesn't make any stylist an expert in cutting curly hair.
Narelle likes this.
Discovered CG 2007

2C Fia BSL/Thick/Med-Coarse/Low(crown)-Normal Porosity Protein and Oil Sensitive

Link-Spritz & Condish Washing

I'm aCurlJunkieJunky

My hair LOVES Coconut DESPISES Soap Bars


CJRehab or H&B Fix, Deva NO POO, EO Rose & Cham POO & Condish, CJ CurlFix, CJ Pattern Pusha, CJ CIAB, SS FHG, KCCC, BRHG, AG Mousse Gel, ACV Rinses,Shikakai Conditioning Hair Rinse.
+1 On a Devacut only being as good as the stylist doing it. Also, Deva products don't claim to be natural. And even with a good cut it has to be styled properly with products that work for you. I posted a thread recently about my first Devacut and how the products and styling didn't work out for me. However, the cut is great and I restyled it at home with fantastic results. Both these pics were taken same day, one with Deva products/styling, and one with my stuff at home.
Attached Thumbnails
The Devachan Hair Cut is not “Natural” in ANY WAY-curltalk.jpg   The Devachan Hair Cut is not “Natural” in ANY WAY-curltalk2.jpg  
CG since 2/23/10!

2B 3A mix, fine texture and high porosity at crown/bangs, normal elsewhere. I like protein!

Trying to grow out a short haircut.

WASH: Jessicurl Cleansing Cream (once every week or so)
CONDITION: Jessicurl Too Shea! or Aloeba Conditioner
STYLE: Jessicurl Gelebration Spray/Awe Inspiraling Spray

http://public.fotki.com/85MR2/ (PICS OF CG TRANSITION SO FAR) Need to update. No pics with the Jessicurl products yet, but I LOVE them!
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Last edited by ...; 07-17-2010 at 02:34 PM.
I'm going to find someone to fix my hair Monday. Anything is better than this. Maybe I got a bad cut but, the stylist got good reviews-that's why I went. I can make it look good if I use a lot of gel but I want to wear it straight most of the year (except in summer)- the stylist knew this and said it would not be a problem.

I have never had a problem with styling. Besides the potion I mix, I just use my fingers and make ringlets, very quickly. Then I take two chopsticks and stick them through on either side of my part (for lift) and twist them together at the back for about 15 minutes.

Sometimes, I'll pull some of the hair up with a plastic clip on the top of my head for a couple minutes. That's it. I don't diffuse, blow-dry - only air dry.

I get very defined, TOUCHABLE, shiny, spiral-ringlet, BOUNCY, SOFT, curls - you can put your hand through my curls and not go "ICK." (if I don't straighten my hair-I will have "defined" curls no matter what I use.)

I use Bed Head, Head Shrink Gel (green gel) mixed with a tiny bit of 100% Dessert Essence Jojoba oil and a tiny bit of water. The Bed Head smells terrific and the hair is soft. The Bed Head also conditions the hair and it stays soft even after you wash it-no build-up.) If I have any strays I spray a little, light hair spray on my fingers and scrunch the spot.

(The bed head can get very STIFF if you don't dilute and you don't use carefully. It took me some practice but now I can do my hair in about 10 minutes-right out of the shower. Also, what's nice is if it does get stiff, you can wet your fingers and rub the curl(s) and it will get the stiffness out but still better to start with a little diluted product)

All of your pics look great-not me. Even my husband-who has NEVER said a BAD thing about me EVER--can't believe how bad my hair looks - I'm going to have him take a picture tomorrow--I look like I belong in a psycho ward. I am so embarrassed.

As far as the triangle and hair - maybe it's because my hair is a mix? It doesn't really feel "fine" but it's not quite "medium" either.

I'll style this hair and take pic and then when it grows out (and I find a someone to cut it) I'll style it "my" way - which, honestly looks a lot like all of your pics--maybe they used too much product? Idk.

I'm just so depressed right now. At least the way it was cut before, I could straighten it and it would look "okay" not great but I could go out--I honestly will not be seen like this--I'm not kidding. I will have my hubby take a pic of the back just so y'all can get a good laugh.

Thanks for all your input. Curly girls are pretty special!

The following is what I found out of book for "traditional" stylists. I think it's the way that my good stylist was cutting my hair but I don't think that every stylist can do this-even when they say they can. If they cut into the curl the wrong way - well, y'all know what happens...


HOW TO CUT CURLY HAIR
Curly hair can be tricky to cut. You do not want the cut to LOOK BUSHY on the bottom. You can avoid this with the way that you cut and layer the hair. Angling curly hair as you cut it will help keep the curls falling smoothly.

1. Begin with the back section. Section the hair starting at the bottom and trim to the desired length. Remember that curly hair will shrink when dry to about an inch shorter, so cut longer than the desired length. Continue until you reach the top layer of hair.
2. Comb the top layer of hair down and pull it out. SLIGHTLY RELEASE THE TENSION ON THE HAIR AND CUT THE TOP LAYER SLIGHTLY LONGER THAN THE LAYERS BENEATH IT. This will help the curly hair to look the same length, instead of looking layered.
3. Move to a side section and begin cutting the hair in sections starting at the bottom. Comb over hair from the back to measure the length against. Continue cutting, comparing each section to the back section. REMEMBER TO CUT THE TOP LAYER SLIGHTLY LONGER THAN THE OTHER LAYERS.
4. Repeat on the other side of the head.
you're right-I did think of this and I am going to use my "normal" method for curly styling and hopefully, it will look fine. Do you have one chunk in the back that's two inches longer than the rest of your hair? I look like I have a mess of layers. I like long, curls--maybe that's the problem? However, my main problem is that I want to be able to wear my hair straight too and I can't (and the stylist told me it wouldn't be a problem to do both.)
That chunk in the back may have been curling A LOT when it got cut, and now it's relaxed out. After you style it yourself with your products see if it springs back up. If it is still uneven, maybe it was a fluke thing it was curling so much that day. Go back and have her trim it up.

Going forward, the Deva method looks at each curl individually while dry, so it lays properly when curly. If your curl pattern is uneven (which almost everyone's is), it will look uneven when blown straight. If your intention is to wear it straight, it's not a good method for you. It might be better to cut it wet, then dry it curly and shape it up just a little. That will allow for greater flexibility.
testimony777 and Narelle like this.
CG since 2/23/10!

2B 3A mix, fine texture and high porosity at crown/bangs, normal elsewhere. I like protein!

Trying to grow out a short haircut.

WASH: Jessicurl Cleansing Cream (once every week or so)
CONDITION: Jessicurl Too Shea! or Aloeba Conditioner
STYLE: Jessicurl Gelebration Spray/Awe Inspiraling Spray

http://public.fotki.com/85MR2/ (PICS OF CG TRANSITION SO FAR) Need to update. No pics with the Jessicurl products yet, but I LOVE them!
I agree with the "over-the-top" alarmists - that's my point...the stylist kept slamming "silicones" but hair dye is "fine?" What can be worse for curly hair girls than hair dye? And, I'm still using permanent color...I think the other poster that said something about people that "pile-on the silicone junk are going to have probs" is also correct...I'm just frustrated because I had a pretty easy life of curly and straight until my stylist retired....I didn't know there was all of this angst out there about curly hair....started with a stylist when I was 17 yrs old, who trained the next one-I was "lucky and care-free" for 30 years. (My hair holds water and I can't stand to be cold and wait for it to dry when it's cold, plus I like the way it looks straight/wavy and curly - I don't style it "totally" straight-it still has a lot of waves and big curls.)

Last edited by mar618; 04-03-2010 at 06:23 PM.
I was thinking "natural" as in wearing my hair "naturally curly" which has never been like this...I'm starting to think that I'm the only one that was told I wouldn't have a problem wearing my hair "straight" with this cut?

I told the stylist I had to be able to do both or, I would not have got this style cut - when I have a good cut, the back of my hair looks a lot like the pic of "CurlsAlot" from what I can see....you all look so adorable...not moi
I think that most who go for a Deva cut wear their hair curly most of the time and occasionally straighten. Perhaps the stylist got confused and didn't know you'd only be wearing curls for 1/4 of a year, and thus a curly based cut would not seem effective at all.
Kiva! Microfinance works.

Med/Coarse, porous curly.
I'm sorry the stylist didn't educate you about the cut. She should have asked how you usually wear your hair, and if you intend to wear it curly all of the time. It is not a good cut for someone who only intends to wear their hair curly sometimes. Occasional curlys should be cut wet, dried curly, then shaped, NOT cut dry and curly.
Narelle likes this.
CG since 2/23/10!

2B 3A mix, fine texture and high porosity at crown/bangs, normal elsewhere. I like protein!

Trying to grow out a short haircut.

WASH: Jessicurl Cleansing Cream (once every week or so)
CONDITION: Jessicurl Too Shea! or Aloeba Conditioner
STYLE: Jessicurl Gelebration Spray/Awe Inspiraling Spray

http://public.fotki.com/85MR2/ (PICS OF CG TRANSITION SO FAR) Need to update. No pics with the Jessicurl products yet, but I LOVE them!
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Last edited by ...; 07-17-2010 at 02:33 PM.
Deva products don't claim to be natural.
I don't know about that, they sorta do....


They boast about being "Paraben & Silicone Free, botanically drenched...." blah blah blah

New DevaCurl One Condition ingredients

Last edited by DEL2C; 04-03-2010 at 07:14 PM. Reason: added link about new Deva ingreds.
http://www.devaconcepts.com/products/

The site says:

DevaCurl - Depart from the ordinary with our botanically drenched, 100% sulfate free hair care system. Deva removed the harsh, dehydrating detergents that create lather " which is purely aesthetic and does not clean the hair " and infused a high concentration of cleansing and moisturizing botanicals that rejuvenate, restore, and respect your hair's natural order. For all curl types
CG since 2/23/10!

2B 3A mix, fine texture and high porosity at crown/bangs, normal elsewhere. I like protein!

Trying to grow out a short haircut.

WASH: Jessicurl Cleansing Cream (once every week or so)
CONDITION: Jessicurl Too Shea! or Aloeba Conditioner
STYLE: Jessicurl Gelebration Spray/Awe Inspiraling Spray

http://public.fotki.com/85MR2/ (PICS OF CG TRANSITION SO FAR) Need to update. No pics with the Jessicurl products yet, but I LOVE them!

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