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-   -   Soap bar users: Is there a way to close the cuticle besides an ACV rinse? (http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/general-discussion-about-curly-hair/125585-soap-bar-users-there-way-close-cuticle-besides-acv-rinse.html)

DaiseeDay 05-02-2011 07:56 PM

Soap bar users: Is there a way to close the cuticle besides an ACV rinse?
 
My mom's friend gave me some soap bars she made to try. I want to use them, but I hate the smell of ACV and I think it slightly irritates my scalp. Is there something else that will do the same job?

curlyserf 05-02-2011 08:40 PM

Some people use a citric acid rinse. Just dilute some in water and rinse similarly to an acv rinse.

hmkenny 05-03-2011 04:28 AM

Are you sure you're not using too much ACV? I wanna cry too if it gets in my eyes or anywhere other than my hair. It can really sting. I keep a solution of vinegar and water in a spray bottle in my shower and spritz it on that way. You really don't need to use much at all - just 1/2 tablespoon to a cup of water for long hair - and if the smell bothers you, you can rinse it off. I use white vinegar, BTW. It's just what I have on hand all the time.

bluesheep 05-03-2011 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaiseeDay (Post 1651802)
My mom's friend gave me some soap bars she made to try. I want to use them, but I hate the smell of ACV and I think it slightly irritates my scalp. Is there something else that will do the same job?

Excellent question - I've been wondering myself. I'm interested in trying soap bars, but the ACV rinse kind of turns me off, although not for the same reasons. Honestly, it just seems like a hassle and I'm lazy! :iconbiggrin:

hmkenny could be right, and you could try a weaker solution. It might help with the odor issue, too. I also use white vinegar (always have it around), and I find the smell to be slightly less obnoxious. However, having very sensitive skin myself, I know that if you're sensitive, you just are. And if the smell is a deal-breaker, I can relate.

curlyserf, do you know the dilution ratio for a citric acid rinse? Just curious.

:idea: Just had a brainstorm: we should ask kathymack if there are other options - she knows everything! Calling kathymack, calling kathymack....

curlyserf 05-03-2011 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluesheep (Post 1652388)
Quote:

Originally Posted by DaiseeDay (Post 1651802)
My mom's friend gave me some soap bars she made to try. I want to use them, but I hate the smell of ACV and I think it slightly irritates my scalp. Is there something else that will do the same job?

Excellent question - I've been wondering myself. I'm interested in trying soap bars, but the ACV rinse kind of turns me off, although not for the same reasons. Honestly, it just seems like a hassle and I'm lazy! :iconbiggrin:

hmkenny could be right, and you could try a weaker solution. It might help with the odor issue, too. I also use white vinegar (always have it around), and I find the smell to be slightly less obnoxious. However, having very sensitive skin myself, I know that if you're sensitive, you just are. And if the smell is a deal-breaker, I can relate.

curlyserf, do you know the dilution ratio for a citric acid rinse? Just curious.

:idea: Just had a brainstorm: we should ask kathymack if there are other options - she knows everything! Calling kathymack, calling kathymack....

Kathy sells her own soap bars and uses them as her only cleanser, so she would definitely be the one to answer questions about them.

I found a thread that referenced a mixture of 1/4 t. citric acid in 1 cup of water. After a few times of doing it, I can basically eyeball it, so I don't measure any more.

DaiseeDay 05-03-2011 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hmkenny (Post 1652068)
Are you sure you're not using too much ACV? I wanna cry too if it gets in my eyes or anywhere other than my hair. It can really sting. I keep a solution of vinegar and water in a spray bottle in my shower and spritz it on that way. You really don't need to use much at all - just 1/2 tablespoon to a cup of water for long hair - and if the smell bothers you, you can rinse it off. I use white vinegar, BTW. It's just what I have on hand all the time.

I've been using about a whole tablespoon for 1 cup, so yepp it could be too much. I just notice a slight burning on my scalp after a while and then it starts itching. I thought about just rinsing it out, but I wasn't sure if it would be as effective.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluesheep (Post 1652388)
Quote:

Originally Posted by DaiseeDay (Post 1651802)
My mom's friend gave me some soap bars she made to try. I want to use them, but I hate the smell of ACV and I think it slightly irritates my scalp. Is there something else that will do the same job?

Excellent question - I've been wondering myself. I'm interested in trying soap bars, but the ACV rinse kind of turns me off, although not for the same reasons. Honestly, it just seems like a hassle and I'm lazy! :iconbiggrin:

hmkenny could be right, and you could try a weaker solution. It might help with the odor issue, too. I also use white vinegar (always have it around), and I find the smell to be slightly less obnoxious. However, having very sensitive skin myself, I know that if you're sensitive, you just are. And if the smell is a deal-breaker, I can relate.

curlyserf, do you know the dilution ratio for a citric acid rinse? Just curious.

:idea: Just had a brainstorm: we should ask kathymack if there are other options - she knows everything! Calling kathymack, calling kathymack....

Laziness is part of why I don't really like the ACV rinse too lol.

It would be really cool if there were a conditioner that did the same job.

I wonder if it will work if I just mix some into my regular condishioner.

Off to experiment....

kathymack 05-03-2011 03:23 PM

I haven't used citric acid in a while, but I think curlyserf got it right 1/4 t to 1 c water.

Forgot to add, that those are the only citric rinses that I know. I often wonder if it's necessary, if your products have a pH of 4.5?? They go on your hair and should restore pH shouldn't they??

DaiseeDay 05-03-2011 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kathymack (Post 1652587)
I haven't used citric acid in a while, but I think curlyserf got it right 1/4 t to 1 c water.

Forgot to add, that those are the only citric rinses that I know. I often wonder if it's necessary, if your products have a pH of 4.5?? They go on your hair and should restore pH shouldn't they??

So, you don't think an ACV or citric acid rinse is necessary?

I think I'm just going to try to find a conditioner with citric acid listed as an ingredient and see how it works.

kathymack 05-03-2011 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaiseeDay (Post 1652590)
Quote:

Originally Posted by kathymack (Post 1652587)
I haven't used citric acid in a while, but I think curlyserf got it right 1/4 t to 1 c water.

Forgot to add, that those are the only citric rinses that I know. I often wonder if it's necessary, if your products have a pH of 4.5?? They go on your hair and should restore pH shouldn't they??

So, you don't think an ACV or citric acid rinse is necessary?

I think I'm just going to try to find a conditioner with citric acid listed as an ingredient and see how it works.

I do an ACV rinse, so I'm not saying that it isn't necessary. I'm just wondering if you use products (rinse out, etc.) that have the correct pH--maybe it isn't. It's something about which I've given thought, so I voiced it. Thought it might make an interesting discussion. Anyone else have insight on this??

wavynwild16 05-03-2011 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kathymack (Post 1652587)
I haven't used citric acid in a while, but I think curlyserf got it right 1/4 t to 1 c water.

Forgot to add, that those are the only citric rinses that I know. I often wonder if it's necessary, if your products have a pH of 4.5?? They go on your hair and should restore pH shouldn't they??

I've been using Dr. Bronner's Liquid Castile Soap lately, and I heard that you had to use an acidic rinse after that, too. I don't think all soap bars are made with Castile Soap, but I've tried skipping my vinegar rinse after I wash my hair, and nothing has happened. It's no frizzier than it normally is! Since I've been ditching my ACV rinse lately (not so much because I'm lazy, but because I always get into the shower and forget to measure it all out beforehand! ;)), and nothing happened, I've come to the conclusion that it's not necessary. Maybe Kathy is onto something with the products and their pH's restoring the proper balance (although I'm no scientist!).

kathymack 05-03-2011 06:36 PM

Castile soap is made through the same saponification process as the natural soap bars the rest of us use. I just looked up the ingredients for the Dr. Bronner's Peppermint: Water, Organic Coconut Oil*, Potassium Hydroxide**, Organic Olive Oil*, Mentha Arvensis*, Organic Hemp Oil, Organic Jojoba Oil, Organic Peppermint Oil*, Citric Acid, Tocopherol

I'm assuming Potassium Hydroxide (potash) serves the same purpose as sodium hydroxide (lye.)

bluesheep 05-03-2011 08:30 PM

Daisee, I always rinse out the ACV. I pour it over my hair, squish it around a little, wait a minute and rinse it out. It seems to work all right.

Thanks for the info on Dr. Bronner's wavynwild - another thing I've been considering trying.


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DaiseeDay 05-07-2011 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kathymack (Post 1652603)
Quote:

Originally Posted by DaiseeDay (Post 1652590)
Quote:

Originally Posted by kathymack (Post 1652587)
I haven't used citric acid in a while, but I think curlyserf got it right 1/4 t to 1 c water.

Forgot to add, that those are the only citric rinses that I know. I often wonder if it's necessary, if your products have a pH of 4.5?? They go on your hair and should restore pH shouldn't they??

So, you don't think an ACV or citric acid rinse is necessary?

I think I'm just going to try to find a conditioner with citric acid listed as an ingredient and see how it works.

I do an ACV rinse, so I'm not saying that it isn't necessary. I'm just wondering if you use products (rinse out, etc.) that have the correct pH--maybe it isn't. It's something about which I've given thought, so I voiced it. Thought it might make an interesting discussion. Anyone else have insight on this??

Right. I was going to put that to the test. Maybe my post was worded wrong. I was voicing what I believe: which is that an acv rinse probably isn't necessary with the right ph product - especially one containing citric acid. I've used a soap bar, so I know that something is needed to close the cuticle - my logic is that it isn't necessarily a stinky acv rinse. It seemed like you were thinking along the same lines... I'll just see for myself.

coilynapp 05-07-2011 04:55 PM

you don't need to do an acv rinse after using soap as long as you use a conditioner after washing. All conditioners (should be) formulated to have a pH of 4.5-5.5 (sometimes as low as 4.0). If you are using a conditioner after washing with soap you should have no problems

you can also use anything that is acidic. hibiscus tea, citric acid, amla rinse etc.

IAgirl 05-07-2011 05:51 PM

2 issues at play here. If you have hard water, you're likely to feel "soap scum" on your hair without the acidic rinse or something to get the mineral/soap residue off your hair. Citric acid in a product might do the trick if there is enough in there (and if the pH is 4.5 to 5, there must be a fair bit).
Vinegar does smell vinegary and can be itchy, especially if you've got a sensitive scalp or "mold" allergies.
I don't know if soap bars in soft water present any problem with residue.

As far as un-swelling the hair shaft after exposure to the high pH of the soap bar (and getting the cuticle to return to its normal position), your low-pH products are going to help with that so why bother with an extra step?

kathymack 05-07-2011 06:20 PM

Thanks coilynapp and IAgirl for "articulating" my theory. I've been doing the ACV rinse, but wondering if it's really needed if I used the right products following the soap bar. Now I know it isn't necessary.


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