Loose waves? Hard hair out? Help :(

gianna910 · 05-14-2011, 10:51 PM

•Last night, i did an overnight deep treatment (honey, olive oil with a little bit of suave juicy green apple) when i washed it out in the morning, my wavy curls became loose and beachy wavy but super soft and smooth. My hair is naturally botticelli when encouraged. What can i do to make it tight-ish again?

•My hair is fairly soft and smooth but when i step out of the house, in minutes it turns rough and hard and snaggy? It pretty much happens when i'm in an open space. But when im in small enclosed areas like vehicles and houses sometimes malls but very seldom, it's soft and smooth. How can i keep it soft and smooth wherever i go?

Thank You.

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oh.hi.its.steph · 05-15-2011, 07:38 AM

I'm fairly new to CG but from what I understand, maybe your hair is now overly moisturized? Whenever that happens hair tends to get limp and mushy-soft. You probably just need a little bit of protein to balance out all that moisture.

But I don't know for sure... what are the properties of your hair? Coarse or fine? etc etc etc. If we know that, more of us can help you!

gianna910 · 05-15-2011, 07:43 AM

Coarse. Thick. High porosity. Low elasticity. Im a 2a if i dont encourage my curls but when i do, i can get a mix of 2b-3a.

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oh.hi.its.steph · 05-15-2011, 09:14 AM

Hmm, you just may need a bit of protein then. We have fairly similar hair I think

Mine was extremely porous from daily straightening and coloring it all the time, but it has since gotten a lot healthier. You might need a quick PT (like 2-3 minutes, not a super-deep 30 minute one?) to repair the "holes" in your hair (porosity) and then follow that with a DT so that you don't get protein overload (which coarse hair can be prone to).

That's my suggestion, at least

What other products do you use for styling?

gianna910 · 05-15-2011, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oh.hi.its.steph

Hmm, you just may need a bit of protein then. We have fairly similar hair I think

Mine was extremely porous from daily straightening and coloring it all the time, but it has since gotten a lot healthier. You might need a quick PT (like 2-3 minutes, not a super-deep 30 minute one?) to repair the "holes" in your hair (porosity) and then follow that with a DT so that you don't get protein overload (which coarse hair can be prone to).

That's my suggestion, at least

What other products do you use for styling?

Oooh. I only have the keratin treatment tub that i have to leave in for 20-an hour. Dyou know any diy treatments that doesnt include eggs?

I use My co wash suave naturals as a leave in and a local but cg friendly gel or a non cg friendly mousse but i low poo.

Thank you.

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oh.hi.its.steph · 05-16-2011, 06:08 AM

Hmm to be honest I'm not so sure about any DIY protein treatments. I don't want to suggest anything and be totally off. I would suggest going to the product board or the DIY board and asking them, since they're bound to be waaaay more knowledgeable about it than I am

But whichever one you choose I would suggest only leaving it on for like, 10 minutes at the maximum and seeing how your hair responds. Better a little less than way too much!

Also... from past experience with my hair and mousse, which left it a totally gunky mess, I would suggest avoiding it. Mousse can sometimes be drying (which would explain the "hard hair"). Maybe don't use it for a day, and use more gel instead, and see how your hair responds to that?

Try both of these suggestions and see what works the best

Doing a PT/DT will help your hair out no matter what, and it'll also let you know if that was the problem entirely or if you also need to change what you use to style.

swtndspcy · 05-16-2011, 06:21 AM

This is the one I use. It works great, you can go for a light PT (5 minutes) or super protein and blow dry it in (like aphogee 2 step). Plus, unflavored gelatin is super cheap, and it's really easy.

gianna910 · 05-16-2011, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oh.hi.its.steph

Hmm to be honest I'm not so sure about any DIY protein treatments. I don't want to suggest anything and be totally off. I would suggest going to the product board or the DIY board and asking them, since they're bound to be waaaay more knowledgeable about it than I am

But whichever one you choose I would suggest only leaving it on for like, 10 minutes at the maximum and seeing how your hair responds. Better a little less than way too much!

Also... from past experience with my hair and mousse, which left it a totally gunky mess, I would suggest avoiding it. Mousse can sometimes be drying (which would explain the "hard hair"). Maybe don't use it for a day, and use more gel instead, and see how your hair responds to that?

Try both of these suggestions and see what works the best

Doing a PT/DT will help your hair out no matter what, and it'll also let you know if that was the problem entirely or if you also need to change what you use to style.

Okay. I'll check on that. Thanks!

My hair likes mousse more than gel. My hair hates gel. But i'll maybe try it again sometime.

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gianna910 · 05-16-2011, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swtndspcy

This is the one I use. It works great, you can go for a light PT (5 minutes) or super protein and blow dry it in (like aphogee 2 step). Plus, unflavored gelatin is super cheap, and it's really easy.

Okay. Thank you. I'll try that one out.

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wavynwild16 · 05-16-2011, 04:10 PM

Rough and hard hair sounds like too much protein. You might want to do some more deep moisturizing treatments, start sealing with oil, or use some leave in conditioner, if you don't already. Coarse hair is very prone to too much protein, because we have so much of it in our hair already! It feels straw-like, hard, and brittle when you have too much protein. The mousse you're using might also have alcohol in it, and your hair is getting dried out from that.

HTH!

pedaheh · 05-16-2011, 05:09 PM

Sounds like you may have a couple issues going on. It sounds as if the olive oil may have made your hair a bit too oily?? If this is the case, it may just take a few more washes to remove it.

Porous and coarse hair is much more difficult to get the right amount of protein. Porous hair needs protein and coarse hair gets over proteined easily. This thread may give you ideas on how to deal with coarse/porous hair.
Porous and Coarse: Share your Hair Biography
I don't know enough about porous/coarse hair to say for sure, but 20minutes to 1 hour sounds like too much protein. Look in the thread above, I may be wrong.

What are your dew points? High? Low? This might explain why your hair reacts differently outdoors. If it is low dews and use humectants, your hair will lose moisture outside and become dryer.

oh.hi.its.steph · 05-17-2011, 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pedaheh

Porous and coarse hair is much more difficult to get the right amount of protein. Porous hair needs protein and coarse hair gets over proteined easily. This thread may give you ideas on how to deal with coarse/porous hair.
Porous and Coarse: Share your Hair Biography
I don't know enough about porous/coarse hair to say for sure, but 20minutes to 1 hour sounds like too much protein. Look in the thread above, I may be wrong.

Yeah, definitely read that link, it helped me out a lot too

And she's right about you needing to be careful with protein. Definitely do a PT for 10 minutes or less, haha. Too much moisture is easy to fix, but too much protein can be terrible!

swtndspcy · 05-17-2011, 06:25 AM

Ha, I wouldn't know about too much protein, I do pretty intense PT's weekly and have a lot of protein in my products, as long as I counter it with a lot of moisture my hair loves it. I keep forgetting courser haired curlies may not tolerate it well! If you do use the PT I posted, definitely go for a light PT, 5 minutes no heat and use a DT after to restore moisture.

I have been pretty puzzled about the soft hair indoors vs. rough hair outdoors. The only thing I can come up with is maybe dry air and humectants? You could try sealing with an anti humectant oil when hair is wet to seal in moisture. And try cutting back on humectants (like honey). Other than that, I am pretty stumped.

gianna910 · 05-17-2011, 06:39 AM

I dont know about dew points and humectants and stuffs. There's just too much going on. Can you explain it "for dummies" version? Please and thank you. Btw, it's about 35-40C here these days and the air isreallyreally dry and hot. And i havent washed my hair yet.

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oh.hi.its.steph · 05-17-2011, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gianna910

I dont know about dew points and humectants and stuffs. There's just too much going on. Can you explain it "for dummies" version? Please and thank you. Btw, it's about 35-40C here these days and the air isreallyreally dry and hot. And i havent washed my hair yet.

Oh, well that could explain a lot. Basically, humectants are responsible for causing frizz in high or low dew points -- dew points lower than 20 or 30, and dew points higher than 60 or 70. They basically cause your hair to absorb/maintain a LOT of moisture in high humidity and it swells/frizzes a lot. Glycerin is probably the most common humectant, I see it in almost every single hair product, haha.

You may want to try to look for hair products that have humectants either not in them at all, or extremely low on the list of products.

Here are some helpful threads:
How does your routine change in the summer?
Subsitutes for my high-humectant products now that the dews are rising?
Humidity, Humectants and Hair | NaturallyCurly.com (very technical description of humectants. It also includes a list of humectants towards the bottom -- look at those, and then see if your products contain those)

oh.hi.its.steph · 05-17-2011, 07:09 AM

Oh! Another thing, try a nice, light leave-in conditioner. In terms of conditioners actually labelled "leave-in," I really like the Giovanni Direct Leave-In. You can get it at Target, and for me it works wonders, it's nice and light and keeps me as frizz-free as possible, lol

But you can also use your own conditioner as a leave-in. I personally really like using the Yes to Carrots Pampering Conditioner (can be found at Giant Eagle Market District, and then I believe Target and Walgreens also carry it?). It was $8 for a really big container and I love it, I just smooth a little of it through damp hair and it's amazing. Also seems to work well in humidity for me.

swtndspcy · 05-17-2011, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oh.hi.its.steph

Quote:

Originally Posted by gianna910

I dont know about dew points and humectants and stuffs. There's just too much going on. Can you explain it "for dummies" version? Please and thank you. Btw, it's about 35-40C here these days and the air isreallyreally dry and hot. And i havent washed my hair yet.

Oh, well that could explain a lot. Basically, humectants are responsible for causing frizz in high or low dew points -- dew points lower than 20 or 30, and dew points higher than 60 or 70. They basically cause your hair to absorb/maintain a LOT of moisture in high humidity and it swells/frizzes a lot. Glycerin is probably the most common humectant, I see it in almost every single hair product, haha.

You may want to try to look for hair products that have humectants either not in them at all, or extremely low on the list of products.

Here are some helpful threads:
How does your routine change in the summer?
Subsitutes for my high-humectant products now that the dews are rising?
Humidity, Humectants and Hair | NaturallyCurly.com (very technical description of humectants. It also includes a list of humectants towards the bottom -- look at those, and then see if your products contain those)

They also draw moisture OUT of the hair in low dews, which if it is dry and hot where you are, could explain why it starts feeling rough when you go out. If you can't cut back on the humectants, sealing with an oil when your is wet should still help. That way, any humectants are on the outside of the oil seal, and can't draw the water out of your hair.

gianna910 · 05-17-2011, 08:15 AM

so basically, less humectants, seal, less moisture.. and yea.. i don't really think i have alot of glycerin in my products maybe just 1-3 of my products. so maybe it's the honey then?

okay. so no more honey?

swtndspcy · 05-17-2011, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gianna910

so basically, less humectants, seal, less moisture.. and yea.. i don't really think i have alot of glycerin in my products maybe just 1-3 of my products. so maybe it's the honey then?

okay. so no more honey?

You should keep the moisture up! Just try to cut back on the humectants. I would say definitely cut out the honey and try sealing and see how that goes.

gianna910 · 05-17-2011, 08:41 AM

Okay!

how about protein?

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