The woes of a CG...discouragement!

You know, I had used the clear Eco gel last fall with great results, but when I tried it again in the winter and early spring, it was terrible. Very frizzy and icky. So I put it back on the shelf and forgot about it. Maybe I'll pull it back out again - today the dewpoint is 69. Gah! I'll try anything at this point.

I had always thought that honey was a humectant, and in general, humectants make my hair frizz - so I haven't wanted to try that, either. Del, I usually don't use a RO; I cleanse or do a good water scrub, depending on the day, then put in my leave-in. I add a teeny bit of water before putting in gel, just to help it distribute better, but I don't rinse my condish out. Can I use honey with the LI, or does it really need to be rinsed out?

I use ACV rinses once a week, after my DT is rinsed out (I do a baking soda/condish co-wash beforehand), but really, I haven't noticed any kind of frizz reduction from it.

Wavynwild, if that is your hair in your avatar, it is STUNNING. Holy cow, that color!
Originally Posted by Rustina
Wow, I didn't even see these posts! Silly me.

Doesn't the clear EcoStyler gel have tons of protein in it? I know you have coarse hair, too, but mine doesn't seem to handle protein very well. It's cool with it for a little while -- and then, not so much. I'm trying to lay off it until I get some of this dryness under control!

I actually figured out that humectants aren't bothering me (I think I heard that humectants sometimes don't affect non-porous types...don't know how true that is, but it hasn't been affecting me too much) -- it's just the high humidity! Humidity goes down, and no frizz! I actually did a pre-wash treatment with EVOO the night before I showered the other day, and I had almost NO frizz. I was so shocked!

YOU DON'T USE A RO?!?!?!?! WOW, you are my new hair idol!! I use RO all the time, and I'm not stingy with it, either. I use more conditioner than I'd be willing to admit!! Oh, and I think you can use honey with LI, although I've never tried it myself. I put it in my FSG, though, and that stays in my hair, so it can't be doing anything too bad to my hair. I'm surprised Pedaheh didn't say anything -- she's like the honey queen!

Oh, and thank you so much for the compliment, Rustina! You're so nice! Oh, and yup, that's my hair!

If anyone is dealing with dry hair, you may want to try a citric acid rinse instead of a ACV rinse. ACV dries my hair out and the citric acid didn't. They should do the same thing.

ETA: OMG. They are pouring straight ACV on hair on the rachael ray show. Ahhhhhhhhhhh!!!!! The woman they did it too is sitting in the audience. "Look how shiny her hair is!" Her hair is clearly sprayed with a metric ton of silicone spray. It looks oily and limp, but shiny.
Originally Posted by pedaheh
I have to try some citric acid! I still haven't gotten it, even after IAgirl's nice thread about how awesome it is at removing all the pool gunk from your hair! You are right, though -- if I do it too often, it dries out my hair. I had to stop doing it every time after I washed my hair with Castile Soap. I'm glad I did stop, though, because it doesn't seem to make a difference either way!

WOW. That sounds disturbing! Glad I wasn't watching that!! Her poor hair!!
Type 2c/3a with lots of hair and a super sensitive scalp! Med/slightly coarse texture, low porosity and elasticity.

Favorite...
Low poo: Organix TTM, Essential Wholesale Free & Clean
RO/LI: TN, GFTN, YTC
Stylers: EcoStylers, GF Curl Shaping Gel, Aussie Aussome Volume Mousse & Instant Freeze Gel, GFPC, LALNC, La Bella Lots of Curls, Apricot Oil, KMFUM, AO B5DG
Extras: sugar scrubs, AVG washes, pre-poos with EVCO, oiling scalp before washes, plopping, gelatin PT.
Mod-CG since 12/1/10!
Doesn't the clear EcoStyler gel have tons of protein in it? I know you have coarse hair, too, but mine doesn't seem to handle protein very well. It's cool with it for a little while -- and then, not so much. I'm trying to lay off it until I get some of this dryness under control!

I actually figured out that humectants aren't bothering me (I think I heard that humectants sometimes don't affect non-porous types...don't know how true that is, but it hasn't been affecting me too much) -- it's just the high humidity! Humidity goes down, and no frizz! I actually did a pre-wash treatment with EVOO the night before I showered the other day, and I had almost NO frizz. I was so shocked!

YOU DON'T USE A RO?!?!?!?! WOW, you are my new hair idol!! I use RO all the time, and I'm not stingy with it, either. I use more conditioner than I'd be willing to admit!! Oh, and I think you can use honey with LI, although I've never tried it myself. I put it in my FSG, though, and that stays in my hair, so it can't be doing anything too bad to my hair. I'm surprised Pedaheh didn't say anything -- she's like the honey queen!
Originally Posted by wavynwild16
Yes, I do think the Eco has protein in it. I haven't tried it this summer yet, so I don't know how it'll work - or even *if* it'll work - again. I bought it last fall before I had my hair analysis, so before I knew what I was supposed to use and not use. I had been mixing it with CIAB and my hair looked great. (However, either my hair doesn't like CIAB anymore, or my bottle has gone bad, because the couple of times I pulled that out in the last month or two, my hair was a wreck.) I don't know how my hair will react to the Eco now, but I'm going to be doing a lot of experimentation in the next couple of months, since I'm on summer vacation and don't have to worry about anyone seeing me if I have a bad hair day.

As for not using a RO, I discovered that my hair doesn't look any different without one as it does with one, so why use up the extra product? Especially since the products I use are so pricey. Now I cleanse or rinse my hair, add in the leave-in, scrunch it in, and let it sit throughout my shower like a rinse-out would. Instead of rinsing out, though, I do the baptismal rinse and then add gel. I use super moisturizing conditioners, though - CJAO, CJDSC, SSDD, JCTS - so that may counteract any negatives from not using a RO. It also could be that I don't need as much in this warmer weather as I did in the cooler weather. Who knows?

If you will, please explain to me the process for doing an EVOO prewash. No frizz sounds good, and I'd like to see if I can get similar results! I've never done a prewash before, so I have no idea how to go about it.
Sulfate/non-water-soluble silicone free since 8/16/10
Northern VA
Med-coarse, normal porosity, low elasticity
Dye-free since 11/2010

I'm the same way right now, girl!
My hair is usually so luscious and defined... but thanks to a bad stylist whom I recently left, AND humid weather, my hair has been so different.
I also have a rather stringy/less curly bottom layer, and a much curlier, poofy top layer. She really didn't know how to cut curls. I'm also afraid to get it cut, as that would mean sacrificing a lot of length. I am getting a trim so hopefully that will help, maybe some deep conditioning too? Good luck.. I know this sucks!
Yes, I do think the Eco has protein in it. I haven't tried it this summer yet, so I don't know how it'll work - or even *if* it'll work - again. I bought it last fall before I had my hair analysis, so before I knew what I was supposed to use and not use. I had been mixing it with CIAB and my hair looked great. (However, either my hair doesn't like CIAB anymore, or my bottle has gone bad, because the couple of times I pulled that out in the last month or two, my hair was a wreck.) I don't know how my hair will react to the Eco now, but I'm going to be doing a lot of experimentation in the next couple of months, since I'm on summer vacation and don't have to worry about anyone seeing me if I have a bad hair day.

As for not using a RO, I discovered that my hair doesn't look any different without one as it does with one, so why use up the extra product? Especially since the products I use are so pricey. Now I cleanse or rinse my hair, add in the leave-in, scrunch it in, and let it sit throughout my shower like a rinse-out would. Instead of rinsing out, though, I do the baptismal rinse and then add gel. I use super moisturizing conditioners, though - CJAO, CJDSC, SSDD, JCTS - so that may counteract any negatives from not using a RO. It also could be that I don't need as much in this warmer weather as I did in the cooler weather. Who knows?

If you will, please explain to me the process for doing an EVOO prewash. No frizz sounds good, and I'd like to see if I can get similar results! I've never done a prewash before, so I have no idea how to go about it.
Originally Posted by Rustina
Oh, okay...I see! You really loved that hair analysis, didn't you? It sounds interesting, but I'm not sure if I want to do it. It does sound really nice -- like it would be useful in determining products. I'm not sure if it's worth it for me, personally, though -- I am fragrance sensitive, and I'm sure most of the products wouldn't work for me because of that.

It's almost depressing that all the Eco's have protein! I wanted to get the olive oil one or argan oil one (sounds like it would be nice and moisturizing! ), but THEY have protein, too! Urrgh. How frustrating! If only my hair liked protein!
Ha ha, summer vacation is the best time to do hair experiments. As long as you're not flying, because all of our products take up valuable suitcase-space!

I love conserving product, especially if it is a product with a big price tag, so it sounds like you have one good, practical method going on there! So, you just use your LI as a sort of RO? That's so cool! I could still NEVER go without RO, but it's nice to think of others doing it, ha ha! I need it for detangling, and I really can't spare the extra moisture it gives me. I actually find that different methods work for different conditioners, though. I usually leave in all of my YTCarrots conditioner, but I have to rinse all of my Tresemme conditioner out, and then add a bunch of Suave back in as a LI. It doesn't work right if I just leave all my Tresemme in -- I think it's a lot more moisturizing, and it makes my hair all gunky and gross if I leave all of it in.

The pre-wash is actually really simple! (A lot simpler than I thought, anyway!) I had no clue how to do it, either -- it seems everyone on here "knew" how to do it, and there were no threads on it! I just take a little EVOO (about a quarter-sized puddle -- you might need more, you might need less, but it's best to start out with a little and gradually add more each time you do it, because it's very easy to overdo) and smooth it onto/down my hair, scrunching as I go. (I actually do this all upside down -- not sure if it matters WHICH way you stand! ) I pineapple it for the night, and I'm done! In the morning when I shower, I just go about my normal routine.

I'm the same way right now, girl!
My hair is usually so luscious and defined... but thanks to a bad stylist whom I recently left, AND humid weather, my hair has been so different.
I also have a rather stringy/less curly bottom layer, and a much curlier, poofy top layer. She really didn't know how to cut curls. I'm also afraid to get it cut, as that would mean sacrificing a lot of length. I am getting a trim so hopefully that will help, maybe some deep conditioning too? Good luck.. I know this sucks!
Originally Posted by bombshell
Gosh, it's like we have the same hair! The humidity IS a killer! It stinks that all that frizz comes with the extra curls. It's nice to know there are other people with the same exact problem! My hair is looking a little better now -- I hope yours is, too! Good luck!
Type 2c/3a with lots of hair and a super sensitive scalp! Med/slightly coarse texture, low porosity and elasticity.

Favorite...
Low poo: Organix TTM, Essential Wholesale Free & Clean
RO/LI: TN, GFTN, YTC
Stylers: EcoStylers, GF Curl Shaping Gel, Aussie Aussome Volume Mousse & Instant Freeze Gel, GFPC, LALNC, La Bella Lots of Curls, Apricot Oil, KMFUM, AO B5DG
Extras: sugar scrubs, AVG washes, pre-poos with EVCO, oiling scalp before washes, plopping, gelatin PT.
Mod-CG since 12/1/10!
Wavy, I don't know that you'd even learn anything from the hair analysis if you had it done. You seem to be pretty comfortable with your properties and already know what your hair likes and doesn't like. When I did mine, I was 2 months into being CG, and I had no freaking clue what I was doing! I was just grabbing things off the shelf, willy-nilly, with no idea if my hair needed protein, moisture, both, neither - I was truly lost, and experimenting all over the place wasn't helping.

Thank you for the pre-wash info! I actually tried a
pre-wash today with coconut oil - my first try ever with that product. I read all the threads here about using coconut oil, but there doesn't seem to be one tried-and-true way to use it, so I just dove in. I smoothed some on dry hair, waited about 45 minutes, then co-washed and did my usual LI/styler routine. My hair's not quite dry yet, but wow, did it feel soft with the coconut oil in it before I washed! I also want to try using it overnight, as you suggested, and mixed in with my next DT. I tried using EVOO once to seal, and it was a disaster - I may have done it wrong, who knows, or maybe the EVOO didn't agree with my hair or with the LI I had used that day. But I'm going to keep experimenting with the coconut oil and see how it goes!
Sulfate/non-water-soluble silicone free since 8/16/10
Northern VA
Med-coarse, normal porosity, low elasticity
Dye-free since 11/2010

Wavy, I don't know that you'd even learn anything from the hair analysis if you had it done. You seem to be pretty comfortable with your properties and already know what your hair likes and doesn't like. When I did mine, I was 2 months into being CG, and I had no freaking clue what I was doing! I was just grabbing things off the shelf, willy-nilly, with no idea if my hair needed protein, moisture, both, neither - I was truly lost, and experimenting all over the place wasn't helping.

Thank you for the pre-wash info! I actually tried a
pre-wash today with coconut oil - my first try ever with that product. I read all the threads here about using coconut oil, but there doesn't seem to be one tried-and-true way to use it, so I just dove in. I smoothed some on dry hair, waited about 45 minutes, then co-washed and did my usual LI/styler routine. My hair's not quite dry yet, but wow, did it feel soft with the coconut oil in it before I washed! I also want to try using it overnight, as you suggested, and mixed in with my next DT. I tried using EVOO once to seal, and it was a disaster - I may have done it wrong, who knows, or maybe the EVOO didn't agree with my hair or with the LI I had used that day. But I'm going to keep experimenting with the coconut oil and see how it goes!
Originally Posted by Rustina
Oh, well thank you! I guess I am pretty comfortable with a routine now, and I kinda know what to avoid. I don't think the fragrance situation would help any, either! I am still having a hard tine with gels, though.

Sure thing! I've heard so many good things about coconut oil that I'm tempted to go buy some. I've also heard some people say that their hair hated it, too, so I don't want to waste it if it's not working! I also don't want to mess with something that IS working! It does seem as if there are so many ways to use oil -- sometimes I even use some on my body! My hair actually usually feels a little crunchy when I put some oil on it -- not too soft, also. It's kinda strange, considering it should make my hair feel amazing! The results are what I'm after, though, so I guess it shouldn't matter to me what it feels like before!

Okay, this brings up a totally different topic here, but what do you DT with? Our hair properties are pretty similar, so I figured I'd ask. I'm still trying to find/make a good one. I actually like homemade ones -- I feel like they really do better with my hair. I tried mixing some honey and oil into my condish the one time, and my hair was awful. But it was that darn Tresemme condish again, so who knows!

Your hair probably didn't react well to the EVOO when you tried to seal with it because it, along with coconut oil and one other oil (I think, but i forget which one) absorbs into the hair shaft, making them better for pre washes, DTs, etc. The other oils that don't absorb well into the hair are good for sealing. I use Aprocot Kernel oil for that purpose because it doesn't readily absorb into the hair.
Type 2c/3a with lots of hair and a super sensitive scalp! Med/slightly coarse texture, low porosity and elasticity.

Favorite...
Low poo: Organix TTM, Essential Wholesale Free & Clean
RO/LI: TN, GFTN, YTC
Stylers: EcoStylers, GF Curl Shaping Gel, Aussie Aussome Volume Mousse & Instant Freeze Gel, GFPC, LALNC, La Bella Lots of Curls, Apricot Oil, KMFUM, AO B5DG
Extras: sugar scrubs, AVG washes, pre-poos with EVCO, oiling scalp before washes, plopping, gelatin PT.
Mod-CG since 12/1/10!
Good point about the EVOO sinking in and therefore not being good for sealing - I hadn't thought about that being a possible reason it didn't work. I was so desperate to find something to keep frizz at bay that I was willing to try anything. I've since discovered that raking my gel in rather than just scrunching it does the trick, so I don't think I need to worry about finding a sealer anymore.

I had no idea how my hair would respond to coconut oil, either, but I know that other posters with hair like mine love it, so I figured I'd give it a shot. What's one more product under the bathroom counter, right? :-) I was amazed at how it just sunk right into my hair - my hair didn't feel greasy at all, just crazy soft. And when I rinsed it out, my hair felt like butter. I wanted to try it primarily to see if it would soften up my gray hairs a little and help them to be less wiry, but if it ends up benefitting all of my hair, that'll be awesome!

I don't know how much help I will be with DT's - I buy them rather than making my own, as I am too lazy. :-) I go back and forth between a few different ones, depending on how I'm feeling that day. In order of preference, I use Spiral Solutions Deeply Decadent, Curl Junkie Curl Rehab, and Jessicurl Weekly Deep Treatment. I always use heat - I sit under my hard hat dryer for 45-60 minutes, then rinse out and style as usual. In my search for info on coconut oil, I came across a post by Rudeechick saying she liked to mix in a teaspoon of melted coconut oil into the JCWDT as her DT, so I may give that a try this week.
Sulfate/non-water-soluble silicone free since 8/16/10
Northern VA
Med-coarse, normal porosity, low elasticity
Dye-free since 11/2010

Ha ha, I know, we'll almost try anything if it has even the slightest chance of improving our hair when we're desperate! I know the feeling. You are able to rake your gel in? I guess you have a strong curl pattern! I think raking my gel in would break up all my clumps! They might reform, but they'd be skinny little stringy ones. That's not a good look on me. Your hair looks happy and clumpy in your pics, though! Your gray hair is coming in so nice. You don't look like you're old enough to have gray hair in your pics! First time I saw you post pics, I thought you were in your 20's!

Ha, I almost picked some coconut oil today when I was at the grocery store. But, it was "organic" and the only one on the shelf (and it was in the wrong spot), so I found myself wondering how long it had been there, and I left it. I seriously want to try some soon, though!!

Oh! I always wanted to try those specialty brand stuff, but I could never bring myself to spend the money on them. I would love to use heat on my DT's, but I don't have a hard hat dryer! Bummer! Let me know how the "new" DT goes!
Type 2c/3a with lots of hair and a super sensitive scalp! Med/slightly coarse texture, low porosity and elasticity.

Favorite...
Low poo: Organix TTM, Essential Wholesale Free & Clean
RO/LI: TN, GFTN, YTC
Stylers: EcoStylers, GF Curl Shaping Gel, Aussie Aussome Volume Mousse & Instant Freeze Gel, GFPC, LALNC, La Bella Lots of Curls, Apricot Oil, KMFUM, AO B5DG
Extras: sugar scrubs, AVG washes, pre-poos with EVCO, oiling scalp before washes, plopping, gelatin PT.
Mod-CG since 12/1/10!
Thank you for the nice compliment - if you saw me in person, you wouldn't think I was in my 20's, LOL! I have had people think I was in my late 30's, though, and that's fine by me. (I'll be 44 this month - ack!) I think (hope!) that once my gray is all in, it'll look cool, since it's mostly around my face and very brown everywhere else, but right now this white-on-top-brown-on-the-bottom look is KILLING me. Gah. Grow, hair!!!

I didn't used to be able to rake in gel - it pulled all my curl right out, especially on the crown. But since I got my hair cut super-stacked in the back, that crown layer is much shorter and curls better. My weekly DT's have also helped a ton with curl formation.

Speaking of DT's, I got my hard-hat dryer from Sally's. I think it was in the neighborhood of $40, which isn't super-cheap, but combined with a coupon could be a really great deal. I bought it thinking I would use it for drying my hair on a daily basis, but it didn't work well for that. I kept it around for the DT's, though, and it really does help. I bet especially with your low porosity, heat would take your DT's to a whole new level!

I think I'm going to do my PT/DT today - I will report back later this afternoon!
Sulfate/non-water-soluble silicone free since 8/16/10
Northern VA
Med-coarse, normal porosity, low elasticity
Dye-free since 11/2010

Okay, the PT/DT is done, my hair is dry, the crunch has been scrunched out, and the verdict is in:

I owe my hair a huge apology.

Hair, I am so sorry it took me 10 months to put coconut oil on you! I am sorry that ignored the recommendations of the lovely Del2C, who told me months and months ago to try it, because I just didn't know what to do with it. I am so sorry that I kept you and your new best friend apart for so long, just because I was scared. No more, hair! You and the delicious white jar of goodness will ne'er be separated again!!

Wavy, you have to try this stuff. HAVE TO. I have done weekly DT's since January, and my hair has never felt as silky soft and smooth as it does now with only 2 applications of coconut oil on it. I am SOLD.

I mixed in the teaspoon of CO in with my PT (the last of a bottle of Curl Fix that I've been dying to use up because I hate how it smells so much), sat under the dryer for 60 minutes, rinsed, put in Curl Rehab, let it sit without heat for an hour and a half, rinsed, used a teeny bit of CJ Smoothing Lotion, added gel, and air dried.

Next weekend, I will skip the PT and just do a DT with the CO. I can't wait to experiment more with this stuff. It is magic!
Sulfate/non-water-soluble silicone free since 8/16/10
Northern VA
Med-coarse, normal porosity, low elasticity
Dye-free since 11/2010

Happy early birthday! I have to give you credit for letting your gray grow in already -- most people wait and wait. I think it'll look awesome on you! And your hair is looking kinda cool while the gray is growing in! I actually like it two-toned -- it looks cool, like the salt and pepper look. I like that!

So it was the nice haircut that did it for you! I'm still searching for my perfect stylist. I actually got so fed up with the short, crazy curly top layer and the long, less curly bottom layer that I chopped off at least five or six inches off of my hair, hence the new avatar! (I was feeling so excited and intrigued that I had to fix my avatar. ) I really just need a dry cut. My hair literally curls up differently on both sides, so if it's even when wet, there's a 90% chance it's gonna be uneven when dry! Ugh, there are so few "CG" and NC.com recommended stylists around where I live. I have to get the nerve up to ask some random curly with beautiful hair where SHE gets her hair cut!
Oh, and I'm glad your hair likes moisture, too! My hair refuses to curl with no LI in. Like, it just doesn't curl and it forms these wonky bends. As soon as some LI goes in, it's all better. Living proof of my crazy moisture needs! I admit that I don't DT enough, though. I still haven't found a good recipe/store-bought one! I'm eying Shea Moisture products, though, even though I've been trying to do homemade ones. All the protein would kill me, though! Trying to find one SM product without it.

I've been wanting a hard hat dryer even more now after a recent thread confirmed the fact that it can be used like a bowl diffuser (you can drape your hair into it while laying across the bed or something like that)! It sounded like such a neat idea and probably WOULD take the few DT's I do to a whole new level!

Ok, I'm so tempted to buy this stuff now. I've heard so many rave reviews about it, and I'm so glad you like it, too!! It sounds crazy awesome. I wonder when the next time I have to go to the grocery store is.... Gosh, that sounds awesome! It's funny how a different type of oil makes so much difference!! It sounds amazing. I'm almost sold, too, and I haven't even tried it yet! I'll let you know when I get some and try it. Hopefully that's soon!!
Type 2c/3a with lots of hair and a super sensitive scalp! Med/slightly coarse texture, low porosity and elasticity.

Favorite...
Low poo: Organix TTM, Essential Wholesale Free & Clean
RO/LI: TN, GFTN, YTC
Stylers: EcoStylers, GF Curl Shaping Gel, Aussie Aussome Volume Mousse & Instant Freeze Gel, GFPC, LALNC, La Bella Lots of Curls, Apricot Oil, KMFUM, AO B5DG
Extras: sugar scrubs, AVG washes, pre-poos with EVCO, oiling scalp before washes, plopping, gelatin PT.
Mod-CG since 12/1/10!

Last edited by wavynwild16; 06-23-2011 at 11:55 AM.

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