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Old 01-04-2007, 10:58 AM   #21
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icequeen
I emailed Mahisha this a.m. regarding the products and asked if the SCC was reformulated. I also asked about using Curly Q products. I received a vague answer on not layering styling products (Milkshake and Souffle) and to use SCC for extra hold.
It's disappointing to not receive a straight answer on products and have no idea what you are getting. I was ready to place an order after a decent few days with a sample of Milkshake but think I will keep experimenting with other products. The trust factor just isn't there with Curls.
I received an email from Mahisha letting me know that she didn't see my additional questions on the email. She also stated the ingredients listing is always correct on the website.
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Old 01-04-2007, 11:06 AM   #22
 
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Great...just when I thought I'd found something good!

...back to the searching-drawing board......
*grumble grumble....*
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Old 01-04-2007, 11:08 AM   #23
 
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Whew I"m glad I didn't order this. All the Curls stuff used to be CG. Well at least that's less products to invest in I guess
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Old 01-04-2007, 11:21 AM   #24
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I think that it is quite unneccesary for others here to post about them supposedly knowing firsthand that NC distanced themselves from Curls by their stopping the sale of Curls products here, when only the owners of NC and Mahisha were involved in that decision. Not I or anyone else! And none of us here at NC, other than the owners, have that right to do so, legally if that is the case, in posting such information. Which never to my knowledge has ever been posted by any of the moderators here.

I have actually gotten a chance after emailing the owner of Curls myself last night, regarding the ingredient changes that are on the Curls website and here is what I personally found out:

Curls ran the Milkshake Special, in which they offered customers an opportunity to custom blend the fragrances...that was formulated differently to enable customers to blend the fragrances, at home, without creating chemical issues, etc. The ingredients of Curls products will always be correct and listed on their website, and the Milkshake is the same...as the original, and is on their site. The promo ran for about 2 months or so and that was the only change. Even the performance was exactly the same..the way her chemist formulated it to be "custom blended safe."

And the Curls Spiral Curl Cream reformulation has actually been out for a while and is not actually new. It actually was replaced before Curls Whipped Cream and Curl Souffle were replaced in November 2006. The only thing that seems to be new to a lot of us are the actual ingredient listing. Also all of Curls vendors were made aware of this change Because a lot of us still have and are using the original version. And had not switched over to using the one that does have cones in it. Curls Spiral Cream had been OUT OF STOCK for a period of time that did occur within the last couple of months. But during that time a posting was made by the owner on her website making everyone aware that changes were being made to this product. And all of the Curls vendors were made aware of the change(and thus the downtime) during that period.

The only reason why I didn't post the actual email from the owner of Curls, Mahisha, replying back to my questions, but decided to shorten up the actual facts that were parlayed back to me is because of this. I have still not gotten a clear understanding on whether it is okay to post such emails or not here.

And if anyone here has any doubts regarding what I have just posted, you can by all means contact the owner, Mahisha, herself, regarding such matters.
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Old 01-04-2007, 12:52 PM   #25
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYB
I think that it is quite unneccesary for others here to post about them supposedly knowing firsthand that NC distanced themselves from Curls by their stopping the sale of Curls products here, when only the owners of NC and Mahisha were involved in that decision. Not I or anyone else! And none of us here at NC, other than the owners, have that right to do so, legally if that is the case.
Not sure if this references my comment, but just in case, I'll clarify.

Quote:
Originally Posted by laurabeth33
As for NC.com, since they're all about the most-awesome CS, I think it was wise of them to distance themselves since the products were available at curls.biz.
I think the world of CurlMart CS. When formulations change, there is a possibility during the period when the stock of the first formula and second formula transition that the website could be different than the product sent. Because CurlMart values CS, I believe they would refund/exchange/make right on any discrepancies if someone got a formula different from the one on CurlMart's website. Since they have many different brands, it's more difficult to keep track of when the bottles in their stock would start.

That isn't to say that Curls wouldn't make things right with customers. I would think that Curls' site carrying just Curls products would notice when the formulations transitioned and would update the website as they have. I'm just saying for the size of stock in CurlMart and Curls' changes appearing to me to be more frequent than most of the brands in CurlMart, it would be easier to let people go to curls.biz directly.

The "distance" I speak of between NC.com and Curls would be that CurlMart doesn't carry Curls products anymore. If there's more to the story, that's not my business. Distance was just a vague wording choice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by laurabeth33
CurlMart is great about offering the super-hard-to-get products (like Elucence), but, when something's easy to get elsewhere, I can see them being more selective in their offerings.
When CurlMart was first born, it was providing only a few really hard-to-get products like Elucence (only sold in salons and CurlMart without being diverted/counterfeit) and Boots Curling Cream from the UK. A few other companies added to their offering and the choices grew. But the spirit of CurlMart initially seemed (my impression) to be to bring the products to the masses that were difficult to obtain. My point here was to say that since Curls products are sold at curls.biz, they can be orderred there just as easy (and get points, etc).

Anyway, I just wanted to clarify to avoid misunderstandings. Thanks, SYB, for drawing to my attention that I needed to be more specific to avoid misunderstandings, saying that the indirect comment was addressing what I had written. (If I'm not the person referenced, well, at least I'm more detailed and clear. )
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Old 01-04-2007, 11:49 PM   #26
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Well - First pink Boots goes away . Then when I find Spiral Curls cream to replace it it has gone away to. I don't do cones so I won't be buying it anymore. Well since the third time is supposed to be the charm I hope the next styler I find that really! works stays a while.

Now I also need to find an alternative to Elucence that I can purchase locally. First I found the Suave Awaphuii condition and then it went away .... well I just don't get the lack of stability in these hair products.

tsk tsk tsk
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Old 01-04-2007, 11:52 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icequeen
Quote:
Originally Posted by icequeen
I emailed Mahisha this a.m. regarding the products and asked if the SCC was reformulated. I also asked about using Curly Q products. I received a vague answer on not layering styling products (Milkshake and Souffle) and to use SCC for extra hold.
It's disappointing to not receive a straight answer on products and have no idea what you are getting. I was ready to place an order after a decent few days with a sample of Milkshake but think I will keep experimenting with other products. The trust factor just isn't there with Curls.
I received an email from Mahisha letting me know that she didn't see my additional questions on the email. She also stated the ingredients listing is always correct on the website.
Funny (not ha ha), but a while back I questioned something that had cones in it and got a reply that "It was a mistake on the website becaue none of their products have cones". Things that make you go hmmm.
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Old 01-05-2007, 07:23 AM   #28
 
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I remmeber that about the no cones the site is wrong posts.
That's the whole reason I didn't buy SCC in case it really did have cones.
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Old 01-05-2007, 08:18 AM   #29
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdl
Well - First pink Boots goes away.
Pink Boots added some fragrance enhancers, but I've tried the older and newer formulas and they work identically.

http://www.britsuperstore.com has it and calls it "Boots Curling Cream," though the shipping to the US from the UK is not cheap.

As for a Elucence replacement, Regis Olive Oil Conditioner is quite similar, though I wouldn't use it as a leave-in (it's very green).
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Old 01-05-2007, 08:43 AM   #30
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laurabeth33
As for a Elucence replacement, Regis Olive Oil Conditioner is quite similar, though I wouldn't use it as a leave-in (it's very green).
I was also nervous using it as a leave-in, but someone else said they did and it was fine. I believe it was "She" and she has very pretty, blonde curls. So if it doesn't show up on blonde, I imagine it would be ok for most.
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Old 01-05-2007, 09:40 AM   #31
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laurabeth33
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdl
Well - First pink Boots goes away.
Pink Boots added some fragrance enhancers, but I've tried the older and newer formulas and they work identically.

http://www.britsuperstore.com has it and calls it "Boots Curling Cream," though the shipping to the US from the UK is not cheap.

As for a Elucence replacement, Regis Olive Oil Conditioner is quite similar, though I wouldn't use it as a leave-in (it's very green).
And don't forget that banjocurl sells the white Boots cream, which works very similarly to the pink.
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Old 01-05-2007, 09:56 AM   #32
 
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So, forgive me for being confused, have the ingredients of the regular (not the special make-your-own-scent) version of Milkshake been changed? Because I ordered some about a week ago and the website listed the old ingredients. I got the package yesterday and the ingredients on the jar are the old ingredients. If I order some now is it made with the new ingredients as listed on the site? I ask because it seems like it's been totally reformulated. Curls should put a note on the product page saying it's a new version. I would have been seriously peeved if I ordered it and an entirely new version arrived in the mail.
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Old 01-05-2007, 10:36 AM   #33
 
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Does anyone know why the SCC reformulation now includes 'cones? Has she said anything? I have no problem with reformulation so long as something works just as well as it did originally, but the addition of 'cones seems to go against the no 'cone stance she had a while ago.


...still irked SCC is 'off limits' now
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Old 01-05-2007, 11:49 AM   #34
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spacegirl
So, forgive me for being confused, have the ingredients of the regular (not the special make-your-own-scent) version of Milkshake been changed? Because I ordered some about a week ago and the website listed the old ingredients. I got the package yesterday and the ingredients on the jar are the old ingredients. If I order some now is it made with the new ingredients as listed on the site? I ask because it seems like it's been totally reformulated. Curls should put a note on the product page saying it's a new version. I would have been seriously peeved if I ordered it and an entirely new version arrived in the mail.
Good question. I don't know what the old ingredients were to know how different they are. If you list the ingredients of the old formula (I can see the new ingreds on Curls' site), I'll weigh in on how different they appear.

You could always contact Curls and see if it was a subtle addition/trade-out or a complete reformulation. That's the best way to know (unless the ingredient lists are completely different--then it's obvious).
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Old 01-05-2007, 12:17 PM   #35
 
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I typed the old ingredients off the jar, so excuse any typos. :^)

Old Milkshake Ingredients: Pure coconut milk, sweet almond milk, soy milk, cetearyl alcohol, coconut oil, olive oil, pomegranate seed oil, monoii de Tahita, avocado oil, stearalkonium chloride, plumeria extract, rosemary extract, fragrance

New Milkshake Ingredients: Purified water, aloe barbadensis leaf juice, cetaaryl alcohol, behentrimonium methosulfate, jojoba oil, cetrimonium chloride, soy protein, soyamidoprpylkonium chloride, allantoin, soy lecithin, *beeswax milk, coconut milk, aloe vera milk, milk amino acids, buttermilk, arnica extract, lavender extract, chamomile extract, white tea extract, methylisothiazolinone, fragrance.

I don't know that much about curly chemistry, but it looks a lot different to me.
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Old 01-05-2007, 01:35 PM   #36
 
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spacegirl, you're right. Completely different.

Just based on the order of the ingreds (which doesn't communicate the ratios/percents, just the rank so the first few ingreds could be very similar amounts or lots of the first ingred and a little of everything else)....

The old formula looks oil based, dissolved in a fatty alcohol (cetearyl alcohol).

The new formula looks like an aloe-fatty alcohol-based product with detangling ingreds (behentrimonium methosulfate, cetrimonium chloride). It also has a good bit of protein (soy and milk amino acids). Despite the similarities of the milks (coconut, etc), it looks like there is far less of them in the new formula because lecithin (an emulsifier) is generally used in fairly small amounts (if I remember correctly).

Of course, we can't know the formula because we don't work for that company, so this is all speculation. But no company will disclose their formula either (then you could make it yourself). Just based on what I'm seeing, it's very different.

I will say that it's nice to see a preservative in the new formula (won't spoil quickly when preserved), but I wish it weren't methylisothiazolinone since it can be sensitizing for some (enough so that it's not recommended by chemical manufacturers for leave-in products (see Swirlycurly Chemist's post about Ouidad Tress FX and this preservative.)

As for the formulation being a new one, we know the owner of Curls reads the nc.com boards so hopefully she will appreciate the free "focus group" of us discussing this and put a note on the product page for a few months to ensure her repeat customers see it. You might have just made a suggestion that helps some other Curls customer not feel your "potential peeved-ness," spacegirl!
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Old 01-05-2007, 02:20 PM   #37
 
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Oh! Oh!

This isn't specific to Curls products at all, but if we feel confident that at least some of our great curly hair product inventors are reading...it would be very helpful & appreciated to have a stick on label that says "New!" or "New formula" or "New & improved" when ingredients change .

I'm sure that's extra labor & expense but for those of us with allergies & sensitivies, it makes life so much easier. And when we find something we can use and that works for us, we are VERY loyal customers! (I guess I'm saying, we're worth it! which isn't very humble)
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Old 01-05-2007, 03:28 PM   #38
 
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Thanks for the info laurabeth. I wonder what the new Milkshake is like. Oh well, at least I got a full jar of the old version that I know I love!
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Old 01-05-2007, 03:59 PM   #39
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spacegirl
Thanks for the info laurabeth. I wonder what the new Milkshake is like. Oh well, at least I got a full jar of the old version that I know I love!
Ya know, I'm looking at both formulations, and I don't see any hold ingreds. Our CurlChemist just did an article on hold ingreds (commonly used in gels, but she mentions some are used in creams/milks/etc). You can find the article here. Anyway, do you find the old formulation to be a styler/have hold or be more of a leave-in?
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Old 01-05-2007, 04:42 PM   #40
 
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Has anyone noticed the continual amt. of controversy Curls product changes and customer interactions seem to generate ? Jessicurl or CJ products both are individually-owned and provide such a different experience per curlmunity threads.
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