FSG: Results w/ Preservatives! Updated 7/17/11

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Just curious to know how the experiments are coming along...
Mostly fine hair, coarse around my edges and nape.
Definitely high porosity and insanely dense.
Not so sure on the elasticity, but I don't think I have a very good moisture/protein balance and my hair is ubber dry, so I'm going to go with low... of course I could be very wrong.

Regimen:
Cowash/RO: HEHH, AIA Coconut Cowash
PT: Ion Effective Care Treatment
DT: Any condish with EVOO+Honey
LI: SM CES or PM The conditioner
Styler: EcoStyler Olive Oil, KCCC, or Let's Jam
Just curious to know how the experiments are coming along...
Originally Posted by sapphirestarr14
They're sitting in little bottles, half in the fridge and half on the shelf, going on 1 week. They'll get checked in a few days and if there's no problems, it'll go for 2 weeks.
http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/
Actually, the first results were with refrigerated FSG + protein, in which after 1 1/2 weeks there was not much growth of anything nasty.

This is day 10. I only checked the "un-refrigerated control" because it was foaming and bubbling away. So I'll have the rest of them in several days (2 weeks is the end point).

In the unrefrigerated FSG, the ingredients of which were FSG with hydroxyethylcellulose (thickener) and agave nectar:

I found large amounts of 3 types of bacteria and rather smaller amounts of fungi (mold). Kind of surprising because molds break down polysaccharides (which is what FSG and the thickener are) and bacteria typically break down sugars - but there was agave in there and the natural breakdown of the FSG while suspended in water could explain that. Molds may have broken down the longer chain sugar-polymers first while I wasn't looking.

Anyhow, there were bacteria of the Staph/Strep type, and 2 others which would be commonly considered food-borne pathogens in a different context (like potato salad). I can't ID them down to species - but it's a bad idea to put on your skin or hair FSG that has even just begun to expand, look cloudy, murky, or foamy. Those are most certainly organisms which could give you an infection. Sure, they're on our skin most of the time anyhow, but no reason to "dose" yourself with more.

More to come.
http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 313
This is day 10. I only checked the "un-refrigerated control" because it was foaming and bubbling away.
Originally Posted by IAgirl
Eeeeeewwww.
m-c iii-ii | loose spirals with ringlets
This is day 10. I only checked the "un-refrigerated control" because it was foaming and bubbling away.
Originally Posted by IAgirl
Eeeeeewwww.
Originally Posted by gecko
+1. Geko said it perfectly! I hope the refrigerated one shows less contamination!
Type 2c/3a with lots of hair and a super sensitive scalp! Med/slightly coarse texture, low porosity and elasticity.

Favorite...
Low poo: Organix TTM, Essential Wholesale Free & Clean
RO/LI: TN, GFTN, YTC
Stylers: EcoStylers, GF Curl Shaping Gel, Aussie Aussome Volume Mousse & Instant Freeze Gel, GFPC, LALNC, La Bella Lots of Curls, Apricot Oil, KMFUM, AO B5DG
Extras: sugar scrubs, AVG washes, pre-poos with EVCO, oiling scalp before washes, plopping, gelatin PT.
Mod-CG since 12/1/10!
Note to self. Don't eat old FSG.
And... Ewwwwwwww.
http://pedaheh.blogspot.com/ (a blog to help new wavies, go to the how do I get started page)
2a (nc.com) 2bFi (Fia), very fine, thin, low/normal elasticity, porous, CG, doesn't get weighed down
Cowash: Tresemme naturals
Rinse out/leave in: Renpure Organics (red)
Curl enhancer: FSG
Gel: BRHG, Salon care aloe, Ecostyler Krystal (normal dews)
PT: ION effective care, IAgirl's gelatin PT
Low Poo: renpure (red), Ion swimmers
Anyhow, there were bacteria of the Staph/Strep type
Originally Posted by IAgirl
*shudder*
Mod CG since 8/2010
2cFii (fia), normal/normal, protein junkie. Itchy and allergic wavy!
Growing out
http://public.fotki.com/Mountaincurl/
pw: mountaincurl
I know, and here I was, all ready to spread it on some cheesey crackers...
http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/
Well, the bacteria might give it a tangy flavor.
Mod CG since 8/2010
2cFii (fia), normal/normal, protein junkie. Itchy and allergic wavy!
Growing out
http://public.fotki.com/Mountaincurl/
pw: mountaincurl
Okay, you need to know that the base for this was FSG+agave+a thickener.
Each "batch" had one little bottle in the refrigerator and one on the shelf in my bathroom at "room temperature" which is just under 80F right now.
The samples began "incubating" on July 3, so they've had 14 days.
In every case, the un-refrigerated sample has a slightly darker color, other notes follow:

1) FSG base+ citric acid, poatssium sorbate, Vitamin E:
Fridge: pretty clean, some fungi
Room temp.: 2 different kinds of bacteria, some fungi (cloudier in appearance)

2) Same as #1, plus olive oil
Fridge: OK
Room Temp.: 2 kinds of bacteria, some fungi

3) FSG base+ citric acid, potassium sorbate, Vitamin E, EDTA
Fridge: OK
Room Temp.: OK

4) Same as #3, with olive oil added:
Fridge: OK
Room Temp: small amounts of bacteria - not remarkable (note: there may have been some bacteria in the oil-free version that I did not catch, meaning there was rather very little.)

5) FSG base+ "Cosmocil CQ" and potassium sorbate (a very gentle-on-skin preservative which needs potassium sorbate for mold control):
Fridge: OK
Room Temp: Some fungi? It was difficult to ID, there was a cloudy, thick film over the top of this one - so it did not do a very good job at room temp. This preservative made the gel cloudy and a bit clumpy.

6) FSG base+ Sodium Hydroxymethylglycinate+citric acid (to balance pH which is raised by the preservative):
Fridge: OK
Room Temp: OK
Note: this one gave a crystal-clear gel and did not alter the viscosity.

7) Control: FSG base with no preservatives added:
Fridge: small amounts of 2 different bacteria (very little)
Room Temp: GAG! Smelly, slimy, bubbling and now dominated by large amounts of 2 different bacteria (fermenting etc).

Conclusions:
Refrigeration is very good. The preservative-free control was not heavily contaminated.
Sterilize everything that touches your FSG with rubbing alcohol or straight vinegar.
Disk caps are ideal, then pumps or flip caps - if you can't refrigerate, it's best not to be touching the gel with your hands.

Citric acid, vitamin E and potassium sorbate will only go "so far," especially without refrigeration. They're natural and skin-friendly, but FSG is very attractive food for bacteria.
Adding the EDTA (disodium EDTA please, if you're using citric acid) prevents bacteria from forming their cell walls - so they can't grow.

Oil in the FSG did not seem to be a problem or alter the results.

Cosmocil CQ is not a good preservative for such an "edible" product - even though it is great for super-sensitive people. We might have good luck adding more potassium sorbate - but there's still the problem of it making the gel goopy/clumpy and cloudy.

Sodium Hydroxymethylglycinate worked brilliantly and did not alter the gel. This might not be good for people who are highly sensitive to formaldehyde (I'm a little sensitive to it, and it doesn't bother me).

I may try one more preservative I have on hand.
I did not get to test epsom salt (MgSO4). I have a hunch that it may not be a hindrance for some of the staph-like bacteria because they can tolerate salty sweat on skin.

Bear in mind that I am not testing the same way a commercial lab would. This is intended for home-use only. Were a person selling this product, they'd need to have a lab culture the product (which amplifies the bacteria present). I just stained the samples straight from the tubes.

If your FSG begins to expand, look cloudy, get thinner or thicker, change its odor, develop bubbles - do not use it!

If you're traveling with FSG and can take along a cooler, pack your FSG into that. Or even into a small bottle inside an insulated cup. You only need to keep it around 50-55F - not on ice.
That about wraps it up.
As usual, HTH.
Antonia likes this.
http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/

Last edited by IAgirl; 07-17-2011 at 01:18 PM.
I'm not a scientist (I only play one in middle school), and I don't use FSG (too lazy), but I found this thread to be fascinating. Thanks!
Sulfate/non-water-soluble silicone free since 8/16/10
Northern VA
Med-coarse, normal porosity, low elasticity
Dye-free since 11/2010

**shudders**

Wow, just wow.

Makes me not want to make my own FSG....
$5 off first order at iherb use code KEY066
**shudders**

Wow, just wow.

Makes me not want to make my own FSG....
Originally Posted by curlykey
Oh, no - do make your own FSG! I was surprised at how well it did, being a "food item." Keeping it in the fridge will keep it fresh for up to 2 weeks.

A few bacteria in there are normal. We're just covered from top to toe with bacteria. I had to look really hard to find bacteria in all those samples except for the unrefrigerated, un-preserved one and in the case of FSG you can actually SEE when it's time to get rid of it. In the case of potato salad or other foods gone bad, you cannot see the spoilage.

So this is actually really good news for FSG-lovers.

And if one wants to store without refrigeration, invest a few dollars in a broad-spectrum preservative or some EDTA to go with the citric acid and potassium sorbate and you'll be all set.
http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/
*adds EDTA to next ingredients supply order list.*
I've read that tetrasodium EDTA is best for removing hard water build up. Don't know where I read it of if it is even true. Any pros or cons to using that instead of disodium EDTA? Or should I just get the disodium EDTA and stop trying to use different chemicals that are beyond my knowledge?
http://pedaheh.blogspot.com/ (a blog to help new wavies, go to the how do I get started page)
2a (nc.com) 2bFi (Fia), very fine, thin, low/normal elasticity, porous, CG, doesn't get weighed down
Cowash: Tresemme naturals
Rinse out/leave in: Renpure Organics (red)
Curl enhancer: FSG
Gel: BRHG, Salon care aloe, Ecostyler Krystal (normal dews)
PT: ION effective care, IAgirl's gelatin PT
Low Poo: renpure (red), Ion swimmers
*adds EDTA to next ingredients supply order list.*
I've read that tetrasodium EDTA is best for removing hard water build up. Don't know where I read it of if it is even true. Any pros or cons to using that instead of disodium EDTA? Or should I just get the disodium EDTA and stop trying to use different chemicals that are beyond my knowledge?
Originally Posted by pedaheh
Disodium EDTA is better for acidic products, but Tetrasodium EDTA is good in a pretty wide range of pH and you can get a liquid which can be nicer to work with. I used Tetrasodium EDTA in this experiment because it's what I had on hand and it worked just fine. I use Disodium EDTA to remove (hard water) minerals from solutions in my work and that gets the job done too.

You use 0.2% EDTA to get its preservative effects.
But for hard water mineral removal, you go as high as 0.5% to 1%. So use that much if you're making a mineral-scum remover.

It's best to weigh this - an inexpensive kitchen scale is good enough. For those of you whose hair curls when you do math (whoa, scary-bad pun) - here's the easy way to calculate:
You want 1%
1 g of (whatever you want) in 100g (total) is 1%

You want 0.5%?
0.5g of (whatever you want) in 100g is 0.5% and so on.

Easy to double, and easy to adapt: if your batch of FSG weighs 234g, then just multiply 234 x .005 and you'll get how many grams to add (if you want 0.5%).

But if you add 1 g of EDTA, then you use 99g of (whatever else) so your total = 100g and not 101 grams. I know that is "splitting hairs" (OMG, I can't stop), but it's good to give that attention to detail so you get the proper activity of a chemical. (That and my chemistry professors' admonitions are still haunting my mind).

See - you can apply that chemistry class to your hair "obsession" after all!


I hope I explained that math right - I have dyscalculia (dyslexia for numbers, maths, names, and other abstract things) and I'm always flying by the seat of my pants where math is concerned.
Antonia likes this.
http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/

Last edited by IAgirl; 07-19-2011 at 04:07 PM.
Note to self: never leave FSG outside of the fridge. Awesome results! So glad I decided to refrigerate the batch I made recently (and later freeze it). This whole FSG experiment was VERY interesting! Thanks, IAgirl!
Type 2c/3a with lots of hair and a super sensitive scalp! Med/slightly coarse texture, low porosity and elasticity.

Favorite...
Low poo: Organix TTM, Essential Wholesale Free & Clean
RO/LI: TN, GFTN, YTC
Stylers: EcoStylers, GF Curl Shaping Gel, Aussie Aussome Volume Mousse & Instant Freeze Gel, GFPC, LALNC, La Bella Lots of Curls, Apricot Oil, KMFUM, AO B5DG
Extras: sugar scrubs, AVG washes, pre-poos with EVCO, oiling scalp before washes, plopping, gelatin PT.
Mod-CG since 12/1/10!
My hair actually likes a bit of mineral build up. I just thought as long as I was adding it to FSG it might as well remove some minerals too. Thanks for the advice and for doing the experiments in the first place. A .02% of disodium EDTA it is.
http://pedaheh.blogspot.com/ (a blog to help new wavies, go to the how do I get started page)
2a (nc.com) 2bFi (Fia), very fine, thin, low/normal elasticity, porous, CG, doesn't get weighed down
Cowash: Tresemme naturals
Rinse out/leave in: Renpure Organics (red)
Curl enhancer: FSG
Gel: BRHG, Salon care aloe, Ecostyler Krystal (normal dews)
PT: ION effective care, IAgirl's gelatin PT
Low Poo: renpure (red), Ion swimmers
My hair actually likes a bit of mineral build up. I just thought as long as I was adding it to FSG it might as well remove some minerals too. Thanks for the advice and for doing the experiments in the first place. A .02% of disodium EDTA it is.
Originally Posted by pedaheh
Mine too. Or at least doesn't mind it much.

I don't know how anybody else's FSG comes out (how much water boils off and is lost in straining), but 1 cup of water is about 250 ml. With water, 250 ml is also 250 grams. FSG might weigh more than water! I haven't checked that yet (smacks forehead)!

But to get 0.2% EDTA in 250g FSG, add 1.25 ml/g.

Quick and dirty: Just make sure your FSG measures 1 cup and then add about 1/4 teaspoon EDTA with whatever else (citric acid etc.).

Don't lick the teaspoon.
http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/
Is it enough to add stuff to the FSG that already contain preservatives? Like if I make plain FSG and add say the protein filler, do you think it would go bad quicker vs not adding anything at all to the FSG?

Btw iagirl I'm in awe that you took the time to do this experiments.

Sent from my HTC EVO 4G using CurlTalk app
Mostly fine hair, coarse around my edges and nape.
Definitely high porosity and insanely dense.
Not so sure on the elasticity, but I don't think I have a very good moisture/protein balance and my hair is ubber dry, so I'm going to go with low... of course I could be very wrong.

Regimen:
Cowash/RO: HEHH, AIA Coconut Cowash
PT: Ion Effective Care Treatment
DT: Any condish with EVOO+Honey
LI: SM CES or PM The conditioner
Styler: EcoStyler Olive Oil, KCCC, or Let's Jam
Is it enough to add stuff to the FSG that already contain preservatives? Like if I make plain FSG and add say the protein filler, do you think it would go bad quicker vs not adding anything at all to the FSG?

Btw iagirl I'm in awe that you took the time to do this experiments.

Sent from my HTC EVO 4G using CurlTalk app
Originally Posted by sapphirestarr14
That's a great question. I have read a little about that - when you add ingredients which already include preservatives like the protein filler or some of the grapefruit extracts or any other "preserved" additive; you do get some of the benefits of the preservative, even though it's diluted.

I have noticed that when I add protein filler (CNPF), the FSG stays clearer and thick a little longer (in the fridge).
http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/

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