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Old 06-23-2011, 11:27 AM   #1
 
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Default FSG: Results w/ Preservatives! Updated 7/17/11

I thought I'd try a couple experiments with FSG. I tend to keep mine in the fridge rather than bother adding preservative, but I've added:
citric acid+potassium sorbate
Optiphen Plus
agave
protein
aloe
epsom salts

I'm going to try splitting a batch and leaving half in the fridge, half at room temp. with opening daily to take a bit out to simulate regular use. Then I'll see what's growing in there - molds, bacteria, mosquito larvae?

Anybody have any requests - do you want to know about strictly un-preserved FSG? FSG with additives? FSG with citric acid+potassium sorbate?

I can do a number of these in little containers. My goal is to figure out what are the main contaminants in various mixes so we can learn how to effectively preserve our precious flaxen goo.

Suggestions welcome!
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Last edited by IAgirl; 07-17-2011 at 11:20 PM.
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Old 06-23-2011, 05:47 PM   #2
 
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I lurve it when you do experiments and post the results. It is always so interesting. I'd love to know about the vit C pot. sorbate since this is the preservative I use. However, I'm totally interested in any and all results of whatever you decide to experiment with. Can't wait to find out what we're growing and what causes the sour smell.
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Old 06-23-2011, 06:05 PM   #3
 
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Nice offer!

I'd like to know how to preserve touch-up formulated FSG so I could carry some in my purse or swim bag. Also interested ina preservative that will not irritate my scalp or neck, in addition to not contaminating my skin with something live.

What I put in in FSG: agave nectar, ascorbic acid (sub citric acid), xanthan gum (or sub hydroethylcellulose), sometimes oil

Looking forward to hearing about your experiment.
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Last edited by gecko; 06-25-2011 at 01:14 PM.
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Old 06-23-2011, 06:31 PM   #4
 
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Cool, thanks for the input, I'll try it with some of those additives and a variety of preservatives and temperatures. I have some ideas about those oils - use Vitamin E! Helps prevent rancidity. So does EDTA (acts as a stabilizer and thus assists preservatives). That's getting pretty fancy, though. Hair loves vitamin E.

How much do I love that you carry an ounce of FSG in your purse?! That's dedication.
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Old 06-23-2011, 06:42 PM   #5
 
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YAY, IAgirl and her experiments to the rescue!!! Can't wait to hear the results!

Do you have grapefruit seed extract around? I'd love to know what actually happens with that. There's so much debate about whether it preserves or not, but I find it "works" great -- but I don't know if anything's growing in it, either! Maybe EO's, too? I hear they're "mildly" preserving. I wonder how much good they really do, besides covering up that make-you-want-to-gag raw FSG smell!
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Old 06-23-2011, 06:51 PM   #6
 
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My understanding is that grapefruit seed extract contains anti-microbial compounds, but those are meant to protect the seeds themselves and are not strong enough to preserve other things.
I'm a plant and dirt gal - plants (and seeds) are crafty little things, but they don't know how to make FSG!

OT: I grow flax in my flower garden. It's so pretty.
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Old 06-23-2011, 08:29 PM   #7
 
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Holy smokes, you gals are a bunch of chemists!

I read somewhere here (I think) that grapefruit seed extract is a preservative, so I bought some yesterday to add to my first batch of FSG (which I am totally incredibly THRILLED about!) Then I read somewhere else that GSE is NOT actually a preservative. Does anyone here know if it works? I am keeping my gel in the fridge anyway. I also added a tiny bit of Agave syrup.. thinking it might add a bit more firmness and hold.

Will be trying to concoct an Okra gel soon! I am sure loving this forum!

Wishing I could get some help with the best recipe for a simple co-wash that doesn't include stuff like BMTS (or is it BTMS?).

Please forgive the noobie..

edit: I was interrupted mid-composition and did not see the previous post.. thanks for amazingly answering my question about GSE before I even asked it!!!

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Old 06-23-2011, 08:48 PM   #8
 
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Pictures of a flax field in bloom.
The stuff that looks like a lake is flax.


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Old 06-23-2011, 09:42 PM   #9
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IAgirl View Post
How much do I love that you carry an ounce of FSG in your purse?! That's dedication.
Sorry to say I'm not THAT dedicated. I'd LIKE to carry around FSG, but don't want it to spoil on me.

Hooray, a plant and soil gal! I wonder how much flax you'd have to grow to get a good harvest. I love it freshly ground and added to hot cereal as well as in my hair.
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Old 06-24-2011, 12:09 AM   #10
 
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Thanks Pedaheh! In all my trips to ND, I haven't seen a flax field in bloom yet. DH always says it looks like a piece of sky cut out and put on the ground.

In IA, we grow corn and soybeans and down South where I am, sometimes oats or hay. Talk about inflexible.

The problem with flax is that each little seed has a paper coat around it, and the seeds form in a little round "pod" rather like orange sections (or garlic) with more paper coat. To get them out, it takes a lot of rubbing/abrasion. You'd need a decent-sized patch of flax to have a "harvest."

Last edited by IAgirl; 06-24-2011 at 06:08 PM.
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Old 06-24-2011, 12:55 PM   #11
 
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Okay all, this is the plan: Each "trial" will have one tiny tube in the fridge and one at room temp. I'll dip into them daily to simulate use and normal contamination.
Each additive will have a treatment with the various preservatives.

Additives to test (singly):
none (for the purists)
oil
agave
epsom salt (I suspect it will discourage some things...)
xanthan gum
protein

Preservatives to test (with the above additives):
none
citric acid + potassium sorbate + vitamin E (if oils are used)
citric acid + potassium sorbate + vitamin E (if oils are used) + EDTA
"Optiphen Plus" broad-spectrum preservative
"Cosmocil CQ" + potassium sorbate - broad spectrum preservative
Sodium hydroxymethylglycinate - broad spectrum preservative (will need pH adjustment)

I'll watch them for 2 weeks and check for things living in there. Those that survive the 2 week point will get checked later.

It's a bit of a job, but I'll probably want to take FSG someplace with me someday soon. Now that I wear my hair down!

Don't you just love designing experiments?

When I post the results, I'll discuss aseptic techniques and the best bottle caps to prevent contamination!
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Old 06-24-2011, 04:38 PM   #12
 
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The round, ball like things are dried flax from a wreath in my house.
Attached Thumbnails
FSG: Results w/ Preservatives! Updated 7/17/11-dsc06011.jpg  
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2a (nc.com) 2bFi (Fia), very fine, thin, low/normal elasticity, porous, CG, doesn't get weighed down
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Rinse out/leave in: Renpure Organics (red)
Curl enhancer: FSG
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Old 06-24-2011, 06:04 PM   #13
 
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So pretty! I think I see some oats and sunflower in there too.
Very crafty.
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Old 06-24-2011, 06:54 PM   #14
 
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So excited about these experiments, even though I'm not even the one conducting them! I'll be staying tuned for the results. Thanks for the GSE info, BTW. I feel like it works so well at preserving my stuff that I just can't believe it's not a real preservative! But then again, I'm not checking to see what's growin' in there!
The flax pics are so pretty Ped! Glad you posted them!
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Old 06-25-2011, 12:27 PM   #15
 
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I love FSG! Since I don't use a perservative or keep it in the fridge. My gel lasts in the shower 2-3 weeks! Before everyone gasps, I tried the fridge method but I would always remember the gel when I was in the shower. Then I needed to remember to put it away! Too much work. Since I am not eating it so what if it goes bad. I have yet for that to happen since I go thru pretty quickly.

My really scientific method is smelling it. I notice after 3 weeks it starts to smell rancid and that's when I stopped using it. Now mind you I don't live in a very hot climate so I could get away with it. I am in sunny CA.
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Old 06-25-2011, 12:48 PM   #16
 
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GASP! (just kidding)

The magical spoilage-free shower stall!

What sort of bottle do you keep your FSG in MarciPie? Is it the kind with a flip-top? (Those are the best for preventing contamination).
Do you add anything to your FSG?
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Old 06-25-2011, 03:56 PM   #17
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IAgirl View Post
GASP! (just kidding)

The magical spoilage-free shower stall!

What sort of bottle do you keep your FSG in MarciPie? Is it the kind with a flip-top? (Those are the best for preventing contamination).
Do you add anything to your FSG?
I use a recycled soap container because it has a pump. I find it easier then fumbling with squeezing a bottle. I just use aloe Vera gel, agave nectar, jojoba oil and scent. I stopped using Epsom salt because I read it was drying. The subtraction didn't make a difference.
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Old 06-27-2011, 03:46 PM   #18
 
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I'm very interested in your results!!! Thanks for doing this!

This is what I put in my FSG today. My FSG usually lasts a really long time without refrigerating. I store it in a flip top container in my bathroom. I'm sure that the preservative in the AVG that I add helps out too.

honey
citric acid
xantham gum
GSE
potassium sorbate
Vit E
Rosemary EO
Lavendar EO
AVG
Sea salt (I usually use epsom)

I think that's it.
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Old 06-27-2011, 04:00 PM   #19
 
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Grapefruit seed extract is one of those "use it in the stuff you make for yourself and if it works, great - but if you're selling a product, you had better be darn sure nothing's growing in there" kind of things. If it works for you, then that's evidence enough (I'm sure different brands vary). But for use in cosmetics sold to the public, it's not really considered enough.
So I'll test things that would be "enough" for us to use safely and give to a friend.

I'm sure GSE works sometimes, especially when there's salt and citric acid present - these eliminate certain critters from growing.

Here's a tech-heavy and maybe a little underwhelming paper on GSE (but makes a few good points): http://www.terressentials.com/takeokagrapefruitseed.pdf
And another: http://www.naturalingredient.org/Art...Report0520.pdf
And another: Aspects of the antimicrobial efficacy of grapefrui... [Pharmazie. 1999] - PubMed result

Last edited by IAgirl; 06-27-2011 at 05:57 PM.
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Old 06-29-2011, 02:49 PM   #20
 
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1st result (from some FSG + Colorful Neutral Protein Filler). No preservative added, CNPF is at low concentration, although it does contain a preservative.
This was about 1 1/2 weeks old, refrigerated (no control!) but I was going to throw it out because at this point, FSG loses it's "wow" for me.

I found: occasional skin cells (epithelials a la CSI) a rare bacterial and fungal cell(s), no actual colonies.

In other words, pretty darn well-preserved. And yet it begins to lose some viscosity by 1 1/2 weeks, so the polysaccharides are breaking down in the water.

Lesson learned: It would be better to use a flip-top on my bottle instead of pouring it right out into my hand = skin-product contact.
Getting skin cells in there is contamination.
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