Fine hair, low porosity, and humectants in humid climates

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  • 1 Post By kathymack
  • 1 Post By 2poodles
  • 1 Post By DivaKurl
  • 1 Post By 2poodles
  • 1 Post By kathymack

Hi,
I'm normally a lurker/infrequent poster, but I have been thinking about this for a while now, and was just wondering if anyone here can relate and share what they do in their regimens and what works for them...

Ok, I have fine hair, low porosity and I noticed that when the dews here in Atlanta reached beyond 60s that my beloved glycerin-free gels made my hair feel dry and/or crunchy. Through trial and error, I switched to gels with glycerin and it's been great. Soft boingy curls/coils with good hold.

So I've been using more glycerin in my regimen since then. Dews now range from 68-75 most days. I sometimes wonder how much humectant use is too much since fine hair can only handle so much and I don't want to over-condition or swell out the cuticle (which would change my porosity). I do PTs once/week, and I have a few kinds that I rotate as needed.

Right now I am currently experimenting with using a richer conditioner and leave-in (with less humectants) and then my gel (with glycerin). I'm still in data-gathering stage, but so far so good.

So my question for y'all is if you have fine hair & low porosity, do you use humectants in the warmer weather? If so how much, like is glycerin high in every product you use? Or do you mix it up with glycerin-free or more emollient products? I know Kathymack uses MD, which is more emollient, but I don't really see other fine-haired low porosity posters around when I search.

Hope this made sense, sorry for the ramble if it doesn't

tia
4a/3c, fine strands, low porosity, medium density
Last relaxer: Jan 2010 - BC'd: 2/27/11
My Fotki
My Blog
Of course, I read through this thinking about my answer--and saw that you talked about my use of the MD products. I use tons of protein and really don't think all that much about my humectant use.

I remember using the new Queen Helene Royal Curl product. Originally, I thought it was okay. When the dewpoints got really high, I was surprised that I liked it more then I did originally. I noticed glycerin was pretty high up on ingredient list.
3a (Corkicelli), highlighted, fine, low porosity
modified CG, since April '07
CG since 3/11/08

SE PA

HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic; Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me, Marie Dean Leave Ins and Curl Creams
Of course, I read through this thinking about my answer--and saw that you talked about my use of the MD products. I use tons of protein and really don't think all that much about my humectant use.

I remember using the new Queen Helene Royal Curl product. Originally, I thought it was okay. When the dewpoints got really high, I was surprised that I liked it more then I did originally. I noticed glycerin was pretty high up on ingredient list.
Originally Posted by kathymack
When I read around the board everyone is running away from glycerin right about now, and I feel like I am by myself on TeamGlycerin lol.

My moisturizing rinse out conditioners have a good amount of protein in them, as do my gels, so that's how I can do 1 real PT on the weekends. My hair is happy but I definitely think of myself as very protective of my hair because it's fine. So I end up questioning and researching everything

So you are still using more emollient products prior to styling?
4a/3c, fine strands, low porosity, medium density
Last relaxer: Jan 2010 - BC'd: 2/27/11
My Fotki
My Blog
The only real concession I make to the HIGH dewpoints is one less layer. In the lower and normal dewpoints, I use a leave in AND curl enhancer. In the higher dewpoints, it's either/or.

The biggest thing I do is protein, protein and more protein. I think it keeps me from being over conditioned with the really rich products that I use, tightens the curl and reduces frizz. It's how I achieve my moisture/protein balance.
curlygoinggray likes this.
3a (Corkicelli), highlighted, fine, low porosity
modified CG, since April '07
CG since 3/11/08

SE PA

HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic; Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me, Marie Dean Leave Ins and Curl Creams
The only real concession I make to the HIGH dewpoints is one less layer. In the lower and normal dewpoints, I use a leave in AND curl enhancer. In the higher dewpoints, it's either/or.

The biggest thing I do is protein, protein and more protein. I think it keeps me from being over conditioned with the really rich products that I use, tightens the curl and reduces frizz. It's how I achieve my moisture/protein balance.
Originally Posted by kathymack
Ok, that makes sense. Thanks for sharing I think I've been wary of the richer products since that one time I tried Recoil and my hair felt like brillo. I was kind of stunned by that, so I went back to lighter weight leave-ins (small amounts) and gels.

On Marsha's blog (CJ), she states that the tighter the curl, the drier the hair tends to be, so I've been contending with that (giving it enough moisture but still keeping it light), but my protein needs are high too. I hope to buy her Curl Fix soon--I think I will love it.

Are we the only fine lo-po's here? Lol...
4a/3c, fine strands, low porosity, medium density
Last relaxer: Jan 2010 - BC'd: 2/27/11
My Fotki
My Blog
I also have fine hair with low porosity. But my curls are looser and I have low - medium density.

I find that I prefer curl creams in general. I'm not a real fan of gels for the most part - I really like soft curls. I use CJ Daily Fix to cleanse 3 times a week or so. I usually don't need a conditioner, but will sometimes use either Deva One Condition or CJ Beauticurls Strengthening Conditioner as rinse-outs. I never use a leave-in CO since I find the curl creams are plenty moisturizing for my fine, healthy hair. AG Re:coil or MOP C curl definition creams are the ones I tend to use the most. CJ Repair Me serves as my weekly protein boost.

I find that lower dew points cause more issues for me than high dew points. My hair loves humidity and reacts with increased curl and volume - which is great for my looser, flatter curl pattern. In the winter my hair tends to droop a bit more, so I have to be careful not too over-condition. And I need to increase the protein.

Funny how different hair can be - even with similar properties!
curlygoinggray likes this.
2Poodles Southeast PA
fine, med porosity, normal elasticity
Currently using the following 2 - 3 x/week:
Living Proof Perfect Hair Day suphate-free Poo, cone-free CO and styling treatment, plus KCCC

I also have fine hair with low porosity. But my curls are looser and I have low - medium density.

I find that I prefer curl creams in general. I'm not a real fan of gels for the most part - I really like soft curls. I use CJ Daily Fix to cleanse 3 times a week or so. I usually don't need a conditioner, but will sometimes use either Deva One Condition or CJ Beauticurls Strengthening Conditioner as rinse-outs. I never use a leave-in CO since I find the curl creams are plenty moisturizing for my fine, healthy hair. AG Re:coil or MOP C curl definition creams are the ones I tend to use the most. CJ Repair Me serves as my weekly protein boost.

I find that lower dew points cause more issues for me than high dew points. My hair loves humidity and reacts with increased curl and volume - which is great for my looser, flatter curl pattern. In the winter my hair tends to droop a bit more, so I have to be careful not too over-condition. And I need to increase the protein.

Funny how different hair can be - even with similar properties!
Originally Posted by 2poodles
So far it looks like our hair generally does well with humidity, so cool I was on the right track. And with curl creams in the warmer months...Glad I started this thread. I am very interested in trying the MOP Curl Cream but had it in my mind to wait till it got cooler here. I actually don't mind if my hair is weighed down a little bit, since my curls are sooo tight, but I just don't want to overstretch my hair with too much moisture. I guess like KM said, it's all about protein and the amount of product you use.

I wonder if my hair would be ok going without either leave-in or my rinse out...taking notes from you guys for my future experiments.

Thx!
4a/3c, fine strands, low porosity, medium density
Last relaxer: Jan 2010 - BC'd: 2/27/11
My Fotki
My Blog
The CJ Curl Fix is great, especially since the fragrance change! I know that I used it less because I couldn't stand the floral scent. I know there is a thread about using it as a leave in--I frequently combine it with some of the other CJ products 50:50 and top it with a jelly. This summer, I started using the regular Aloe Fix again with Curl Fix/BC LI under it. It's a great combo that holds all day.

The Repair Me is a great product, too. I use that as a PT only.
3a (Corkicelli), highlighted, fine, low porosity
modified CG, since April '07
CG since 3/11/08

SE PA

HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic; Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me, Marie Dean Leave Ins and Curl Creams
Hi Ladies! OP, I'm a Low Porosity, High Density, Tightly Curl/Coiled, Fine-Haired Diva myself! I too have gone back and forth with this issue.

I've read over and over that before/after certain Dew Points (below 50/above 60?) you are to either seal the hair before applying humectants or cut them out altogether. However, what I've found from daily styling is that my hair does a lot better just as you all mentioned. I'm a 3c/4a (I guess) and when I cut out products with humectants, my hair will look like it's choking! Dried up, frizzy, and gasping for moisture...I live in NJ where the Dew Points can get high or really low and I had been sealing my hair after rinsing out all of my conditioner (DevaCare One Condition). I sealed with Oyin Whipped Pudding, then applied either KCCC, or ArcAngel. My hair would continuously look a mess. I thought I was doing something wrong.

This week, I No-Poo'ed, added extra DevaCare One (until my curls didnt feel thirsty, let it sit while I showered, then checked to see how my hair was feeling and only rinsed out a little of the DevaCare One. I used Aloe Vera Gel on top and my curls almost looked uniformly 3C!

Last night:


I had to keep looking in the mirror! I loved it.

Well today I spritzed with a recipe I got from the CG Handbook, then added a little more Aloe Vera Gel and some CJ Curls in a Bottle.

Today:


Not soft (I didn't know my hair could be crispy with aloe Vera gel, I'll be going back to my ArcAngel/ecostyler blue), some frizzing underneath, and chunky clumps on the ends...I may take the suggestion of one of the other posters and leave the added humectant (CJ CIAB) out.

just wanted to add my two cents

Who runs the world??? CURLS! Shake em like a salt shaker!!!! (my own little remix...)
curlygoinggray likes this.
The only real concession I make to the HIGH dewpoints is one less layer. In the lower and normal dewpoints, I use a leave in AND curl enhancer. In the higher dewpoints, it's either/or.

The biggest thing I do is protein, protein and more protein. I think it keeps me from being over conditioned with the really rich products that I use, tightens the curl and reduces frizz. It's how I achieve my moisture/protein balance.
Originally Posted by kathymack
Ok, that makes sense. Thanks for sharing I think I've been wary of the richer products since that one time I tried Recoil and my hair felt like brillo. I was kind of stunned by that, so I went back to lighter weight leave-ins (small amounts) and gels.

On Marsha's blog (CJ), she states that the tighter the curl, the drier the hair tends to be, so I've been contending with that (giving it enough moisture but still keeping it light), but my protein needs are high too. I hope to buy her Curl Fix soon--I think I will love it.

Are we the only fine lo-po's here? Lol...
Originally Posted by artemis513
yay i found the fine-haired low porosity crew!! i am grappling with the humectant vs protein question myself. i live on the west coast so it rains all winter = pretty high dewpoint? and frizzy hair. so i *think* i need protein, but should i be using humectant also? also, can a conditioner be TOO moisturizing or TOO emollient? I found that AOHSR weighed down my hair, but maybe it was just no protein or no humectant? AO Island Naturals is Ok and AOGPB is not bad either.
2b/3a, Fine-medium, iii (thick!)
Low porosity
Healthy hair
Modified CG since 2005, 'poo 1x/week
AOGPB/AOIN shampoo/condish
Lush RB or ev coconut oil leave-in.
Style with Lush King of Mods, AOB5?
When I was first on nc.com, I used the AO conditioners--at that point, I could only use them twice a week (I wet and style every day) because they seemed to "rich." At this time, the only one I have is the GPB. I use it every so often, but not a lot. I have too many other conditioners I like a lot more--Curl Junkie, Sevi, Marie Dean, Spiral Solutions, Komaza, etc.

I do at least one PT a week and frequently two. I use CJ Repair Me/Curl Fix, SS Protein Repair Treatment or Shescentit Okra Something. If I do a second one I use the Elucence Moisture Repair. On top of that, I use a lot of products with protein and use some PTs as my leave in. I live outside of Philly, at this point the dews aren't too low--but have been below 50 some days. I don't cut back on the humectants until the dews are below 30.

With low porosity hair, I really don't think conditioners can have too much emollient. I have more issues with not moisturizing enough. I don't have a lot of hair, so use minute amounts of the rich stylers. HTH
3a (Corkicelli), highlighted, fine, low porosity
modified CG, since April '07
CG since 3/11/08

SE PA

HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic; Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me, Marie Dean Leave Ins and Curl Creams
Bump!!! Great thread. I'd love updates from everyone. I'm trying to figure this out myself.

I have fine/low porosity hair and I'm in high dews year round. When I use glycerin free gels my hair does get dried out over time but if I use products with humectants, I get poofy wiry hair. Not sure what the solution is.

I've started using richer more natural products thanks to kathymack and it may be that I need more LI and richer conditioners plus sealing but some of you guys cut out LI in higher dews. Not sure what to do!!!

Any fine/low po's wanna chime in?
3a/b, fine texture, low porosity, normal elasticity, mod-CG 7/11/11

Poo: KC Come Clean, SM Moisture Retention
CO: CJ Curl Rehab, CJ Argan & Olive Oil, Renpure Argan Oil, YTCucumbers, Sevi Pumpkin
Style: AIF, HESMU, Biolage gelee, KCCC
LOOB for second day hair


Like BS/ACV rinses, limit protein/humectants.
This is a great thread for us fine/low porosity's, thanks for bumping Cuban-curl-E.

My hair has been doing fine on modified CG for 5 years or so, so maybe I should leave well enough alone, but since I rediscovered this site and have been reading about dews, I'm wondering if my hair can be healthier and look even better if I switch up my routines depending on the season/dews. My hair does get bigger and the curls tighter in humidity and I think gel decreases this tendency more than creams, but I don't know what ingredients are responsible. I also don't mind a bigger, puffier, curlier look.

All I've figured out recently (thank you KathyMack!) is that my hair likes a lot more protein than I've been giving it, but I don't think this has to do with weather. I truly have not noticed if my hair likes certain ingredients better in certain dews. Not that I doubt the science, but I just don't get it so far...
Formerly Urbancurl.
Medium-high density, fine-medium, low-normal porosity, 3b/c, permanent color.
CG, no heat, combs, brushes, parabens.
Fall/Winter HG=Alba Botanica Soft Hold Style Cream.
Spring/Summer HG=MGA Sculpting Gel
Current fave LI=Madre Labs Made by Nature for Baby Conditioner.
Limit oils, butters, glycerin.
Any recommendations for fine/low porosity and low density, 3a with a mix I guess...
New to all this, still experimenting...
I know cj is curl junkie but still don't know all the fancy abbreviations and it is really hard to read post without jumping around to find the key... Please bear with me...Okay,

What are the best (in your opinions) for my hair type for:
high humidity and high dew pts (experiencing temporarily now)
Then minnesota dry winters, what do you think???
Anything to help, low price, high price (am willing to pay high price if HG!)
I have on hand Vo5 condish moisture milks (orange one), Suave coconut condish, DC no poo, DC low poo,
and others that aren't worth mentioning...
Oh I quit coloring, been trimming off the dye since Jan. 2012, if that helps.

Thank you and I hope I can find this thread again!!!

Mostly: Wen Cleansing Conditioner: Lavendar & Tea Tree

Occasionally: DevaCurl No-Poo, One Condition, & Angel; KCCC, KCKT & KCCC
Last Dye 1/4/12; Started Curlygirl Method 6/2012; Final cut to remove dye 3/30/13
Huh - I read my reply from last year - the only thing that's the same are my hair properties, my preference for soft, not stiff, curls and using Curl Junkie Daily Fix (CJDF) a few times a week and Curl Junkie Repair Me for a boost of protein as needed. Now I'll sometimes use a leave-in (Kinky Curly Knot Today - KCKT) in addition to or instead of a rinse out conditioner. And I generally use Kinky Curly Curling Custard (KCCC) as my styling product. I'm finding that will leave me with enough hold and soft curls. I've been following this routine - with the occasional addition of 1 - 2 drops of pure argan oil after the leave-in conditioner - for the past 6-9 months, in various dew points and humidity levels. I'm glad to have found a simple routine that works for me - at least for this year!
curlygoinggray likes this.
2Poodles Southeast PA
fine, med porosity, normal elasticity
Currently using the following 2 - 3 x/week:
Living Proof Perfect Hair Day suphate-free Poo, cone-free CO and styling treatment, plus KCCC

Just checked my prior answer--and it's mostly the same. Only products I added were Curly Kinks. A new fav since last December.

In the lower dew points, I add a layer. I wet, use a rinse out and style every day. In the high dew points, it's a leave in OR curl enhancer followed by a jelly product. In the low dew points, it's a leave in AND curl enhancer followed by a jelly product.
curlygoinggray likes this.
3a (Corkicelli), highlighted, fine, low porosity
modified CG, since April '07
CG since 3/11/08

SE PA

HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic; Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me, Marie Dean Leave Ins and Curl Creams
My hair tested as medium, medium, but I find it to be on the fine side and the lower porosity side. I have been having a lot of trouble with my hair feeling too soft and kind of greasy. I notice the greasy feeling the most with CJCCCCL and a bit with Re:coil. I hate this soft feeling! I'm wondering if I'm just overloading the products.

Kathymack, if you see this, I've asked before, but I'm still trying to figure out... in the winter you say you use leave-in and curl cream. What is the difference?! Can you give some examples of each? Thank you!
2b/c wavy modified CG since July 2012
medium texture, normal porosity, normal elasticity
hair likes protein, doesn't like oils, easily OC'd

low poo: JCHCC, CJGCS
RO/co-wash/LI: YTCarrots, DB Pumpkin Seed
stylers: a bunch of stylers that are all pretty much the same (KCCC, UFDCM, CRCM, CKCJ) or ArcAngel if I need more hold
DT/PT: CJRM, CNPF
My hair tested as medium, medium, but I find it to be on the fine side and the lower porosity side. I have been having a lot of trouble with my hair feeling too soft and kind of greasy. I notice the greasy feeling the most with CJCCCCL and a bit with Re:coil. I hate this soft feeling! I'm wondering if I'm just overloading the products.

Kathymack, if you see this, I've asked before, but I'm still trying to figure out... in the winter you say you use leave-in and curl cream. What is the difference?! Can you give some examples of each? Thank you!
Originally Posted by elizard
I said curl "enhancer," not curl cream. All curl creams should be curl enhancing, but all curl enhancers are not curl creams. Products can be called and used as anything you, or the maker, want it to be. IMHO, any product you use should encourage curl--or why use it?? Some products the manufacturers call leave ins: CK Satin Roots, CJ BC LI, MD Red Clover & Honey LI, Texax Life Drops, SSI Moisture Mist and Coco Creme LI, CJ Hibiscus & Banana Honey Butta LI. Many use their rinse out conditioners as leave ins. Products that are called detanglers are frequently used as leave ins (and sometimes called leave in/detanglers.) Some are KCKT, MD Coco Lime Detangler, DM leave in/detangler. Curl Enhancers: CJ CCCC and CCCC lite, Kozama Califia and Coconut Pudding, MD Curly Styling Cream, MD Cocoa Hair Pudding Plus or Cupuacu Hair Pudding Plus. A lot of people use the jelly products as curl enhancers and follow them with a hard hold gel (I don't, I use them as my final product because I don't need additional hole.): KCCC, CK Coil Jam, SS CEJ, BS Magic Curls Puree, UFD Curly Magic, CJ Aloe Fix.
3a (Corkicelli), highlighted, fine, low porosity
modified CG, since April '07
CG since 3/11/08

SE PA

HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic; Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me, Marie Dean Leave Ins and Curl Creams

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