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mamaherrera 10-25-2011 04:28 PM

experienced people with My HOney Child
Does any know if My Honey Child products work with other stuff well? I want to use like one of their curl creams with per say botanical spirits gel puree. ANyone know off hand before I go and splurge?

wavysue 10-26-2011 04:31 AM

Your hair texture & loose waves would not do well with hair products heavy in oils & emollients. Visit the 2's forum see what they are using. You look fine-med texture in your avie. I saw your thread where sunshinegrl gave you lots of advice & product recs honeychild was not suggested & I haven't seen any 2's using that product. You seem to be putting too much moisture in your hair which causes frizz!! Forget the creams, the LI's & heavy products & get some gel to hold your hair already :/ alot of 2's like Ag moussegel & SS products.

mamaherrera 10-26-2011 11:36 AM

This is where I'm confused
I'm so confused. I was honestly going to try the protein treatment, really, but I was weary because of a few things, cuz I've been reading a lot and don't want to make the situation worse. One, my hair is not super soft, in fact it's kind of rough texture right now, so that made me think I"m not overconditioned. :glasses10:Then I did the wet stretch test with my hair as best as I could and they broke almost immediately, which made me thinn k I need more moisture. I thought maybe I've got product build up going on, causing that symptom, so I did a clarifying wash with CURLS Pure poo, and still breakage immediately. Now don't get me wrong, I WOULD LOVE to do a protein fix, because so many people say they do it and it changes their hair from night to day, but I also don't want to do something and be regretting it. Last night I did that clarifying wash, and I then I did a rinse out with GVP, the generic version of the conditioning balm, then blotted hair scrunching with a tshirt, and then I took a look. Still some frizz in the curls spider web stuff. Put in just very little MD mango tango leave in, glazed over and scrunched, still ended up with the incurl frizz and some canopy frizz. But a lot of those are just little hairs that dont' have a clump to go to. Today though, a lot more root curl than other days, and these curls stayed like loose S's and some ringlets/spirals even though I used no gel. So that's good. don't know if I just stay calm ,the other frizz will go?? But it shouldn't be build up, right? Anyways. . . so that's why I thought more moisture, because my hair is rough and still breaking right away. Not because I don't appreciate someone's advice. And like SUnshine girl told me, don't buy any more products for now, so obviously I"m using what I've got. She suggested not even gel until I get this improving,:laughing8:

SunshineGrrl 10-26-2011 10:37 PM

Actually, that wasn't me who suggested you not use gel. Sorry if I wasn't more clear, but I was actually advocating you just using co-wash if you can, sulfate-free shampoo if you cannot, conditioner and a gel. I just recommended that you might want to try one product line until you narrowed down what the underlying problem with your hair is, because no matter what you do with it, if there is a problem with your hair before you put gel in it, the gel isn't going to work properly. Honestly, I wouldn't go without some styling product, even while I was trying to fix whatever what wrong with my hair. Going without gel is simply not an option for me, so I wouldn't tell anybody to nix it either.

I doubt you have any more build-up issues. You've done 2 washes, a baking soda wash and an AVC rinse. If you have build up after doing that, it's going to take a chisel to get it off your hair. Trust me, the chances of you having build-up after those treatments are slim to none. Try a few more days with the moisture and see if your hair keeps improving. I sincerely hope it does, because it means you're on the right track! Keep in mind, though, that having overconditioned hair doesn't necessarily mean super-soft fly away hair. With some people, overconditioned hair manifests as hard, rough hair.

Keep doing what you're doing and see if your hair continues to act positively. If it does, then you're golden. If it returns to a rough state, give it a short (5-10 minute) protein try and see how it acts. The nice thing about protein is that if your hair hates it, you can do a DT or two and it fixes easily.

Sent from my ADR6350 using CurlTalk App

mamaherrera 10-27-2011 11:14 AM

Thanks so much chica!
Sunshine girl, you are the bomb!! I PM'd you the other day by the way, not sure if you saw it! I get ya, and thanks for the idea on the WATER with essential oils, that takes care of one more "buildup"problem I could have. YOu made a good point, a couple actually that I Needed to hear. 1) buildup is now erased from the thinking board. Thanks--I was wondering, my gosh am I not washing enough. I used Pure Curls poo, and no lather at all, it doesn't have sulfates, but many say it's great for buildup and that's what it's made for!!
2) Yes maybe it's one of my conditioners, I'm thinking what you all have said, maybe Garnier triple 3 is too much oil for conditioner for me. I'm going to try the G VP conditioning balm for a few days. I got much better curl definition/root curl today, but still lots of frizz. ANd your best point at all, perhaps it is overconditioning and that doesn't always have to be super soft/fluffy. That's all I see on other posts, but I'm still really hoping to do that PT> Since I've already washed enough could i do that with just a water rinse/low poo, right?? :munky2:

You have been a Godsend, really since I've quit scrubbing so hard on the scalp, and some days just water rinse, no scrub, my scalp has felt better, not 100%but better. never imagined that someone else could have the same issue as me. I read that others do their cowash scrubbing so hard till their arms hurt, so taht's what I was trying to do. . . . guess that's not for me!! I will keep trying. . . . giving it a break. Again, I'm going to try not even a leave in, just a gel or gelly (although I"m thinking not gelly because of the humectants and I'm in NM), but I appreciate your combinations but like you pointed out, most of your gels had protein and I don't want to go their yet until I figure out if that's the problem or not. Good point too about the fact that if I do a water rinse only, just add a bit more gel, not as much since some of it does stay in. At least doing a low poo eevery other day should get rid of that gel since I don't use any cones.

One more thing, by chance do you have a bang? I have a side bang I"m playing with. I HAVE to use gel to keep it out of my eyes or else, but of course by the next day, it's lost it's power. How can I redo my bang without getting mega gel buildup, because I do have to put quite a bit in their to keep it more stiff, and the next day yuck, maybe rewet and see if that gel reactivates??? Just brainstorming on lighter subjects!! Keep in touch please, I'll let you know if I risk that protein!:colors:

SunshineGrrl 10-27-2011 02:06 PM

Yeah, if you're wanting to try a light PT to see if it helps a little with your hair situation, I would imagine either a co-wash/low-poo would be fine (something as gentle as you can get it), then apply the PT. GVP Conditioning Balm used to be my favorite conditioner. I haven't used it lately, because it got taken over my other conditioners. I might take it back, since it had such good results. It seems like you might be on the right track with it. You might be on the right track...that your hair likes moisture, just not lots of oils. If that's the case, then you're doing exactly what you need to do...find conditioners that have little to no oils in them.

For your bangs...if the gel isn't working the second day, I would first try rewetting them slightly to see if the gel reactivates. If it does not, then feel free to reapply the gel. It's your hair. If you notice that your hair is starting to get a little producty and it's not going away, use a low-poo for build-up and that should take care of it. The ultimate lesson is that you have to do what works for your hair. If you're doing stuff and your hair is a hot mess, then you're going to be unhappy, even though you're doing everything by the book. So throw everything out the window that you think you "should" be doing and find something that works for you and makes you and your hair happy.

Not all jelly's have humectants in them, you just have to do a little more research with them.

Actually, one of my favorite combo's that I use has agave nectar, which is supposed to be a humectant, but I've never had a problem with it sucking moisture from my hair, even with the dead sea salts in it (SS CEJ). The dead sea salts act as a curl enhancer, but it can dry some people out, depending on their sensitivity. Aloe Vera Gel is one of the main ingredients, which many sources say is a humectant, but almost all of my natural jelly ingredients have Aloe Vera as a main ingredients and I haven't ever had a problem. The SS FHG doesn't have any humectants (other than the Aloe Vera Gel if it counts) and I know that some people use that in a variety of different ways. These both have silk amino acids in it, however...

Also, KCCC, which seems to be pretty universally used everywhere that I know of and has both aloe vera gel and agave nectar, and is protein maybe that might help you in the search for a jelly that will work for you? There are jelly's out there that will fit your bill.

asianrunner 10-27-2011 08:34 PM

Just a random thought but have you tried using KCKT as a rinse out? My hair isn't particularly dry so I could probably use it as a rinse out once every couple weeks or so.

I've read a couple of your threads and I agree that you should go back to the basics.

Cowash and/or low poo, conditioner, leave-in (if necessary) and gel. I went through a period of several months a couple years ago where I used CG condtioners and low poo but didn't worry about my waves. Hair was definitely healthier and since I had no expectations about waves I didn't worry!

Plus when I went back to using stylers I got so many compliments about my new waves! ;)

mamaherrera 10-28-2011 11:11 AM

update for you all
I've been really good about just sticking to the basics. Here's what I did. I did a lowpoo(with exederm shampoo, no lather at all) and added two drops of tea tree oil to that. Rinsed as well as I could and scrubbed as light as possible (sunshine, you know I have that sore scalp that was on the road to improvement). Then I applied CJ repair me, smoothing it over and had a shower cap and hot towel on top for 15 minutes. Then I rinsed off, felt it very smooth/silky, so no major straw!! Then I applied just a bit of GVP conditioning balm to length and rinsed. Then I did just a very small leave in just to ends, didn't even work it up, just scrunched it into the ends and did AOMM as my gel/hold. Now I got no negative effects from the PT, so I must not be so protein sensitive as I thought, BUT no improvements either. What's weird is that canopy frizz isn't just there, it balls up, it all like . . . hooks up together and becomes a very noticeable ball of frizz, like static charge, or I don't get it. Is it my technique/? what I did first was scrunch the water out with my t shirt, then I plopped in that same shirt. Then I added the gelly and then I plopped with a flour sack. Maybe it's that and not the product, but I was almost crying to my husband, because I've gone from ok to horrible and I can't get rid of this very obvious frizz. I still have the frizz in the curls to even when wet, so the protein didn't help either. then the other thing, In bed, my head was having this like slight burn/itch in the whole entire scalp. Do you all think it was the tea tree oil or the repair me, any idea? I was getting better with my sore scalp and it came back which makes me think it's obviously an irritation that I started feeling while rinsing out my PT and conditioner, my scalp was hurting from the pressure of the water while rinsing them. This is so very frustrating. Any help so I don't feel so alone would be helpful. If I knew of a knowledgeable salon I would ask them, but like I said, they just push DEVA on me or whatever they're selling.

SegB 10-28-2011 11:58 AM

I may try a low poo with cocobetaine in it, as it is strong enough to remove *most* build up. I wonder if that shampoo is not enough for you.

Have you tried raking your product in?

It seems like you need something to de-frizz and something for hold. I know you don't want to add too many products until your hair starts to behave...Can you start out using a SMALL pea size amount of your conditioner as a leave in and then use gel or mousse? There is a cheap mousse from CVS (3 in 1 Condition) that worked well on my fine hair to just give some definition...I would try raking your products in (even combing them in with a wide tooth comb) and then scrunch a *little* just to get the curls going.

You need to find out what works for you and that may take some expirementing...

mamaherrera 10-28-2011 01:22 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Just had to show you this frizz. I know you've got to look real hard, but even if I wet it right now, it ain't going nowhere. Maybe I do need to start combing, like the supersoaker video to sit those babies down. Like I said, I just can't figure out where the frizz is coming from, it's like my cuticles are roughed up and I just did a double dose of ACV after my baking soda rinse last SUnday, so I don't want that either.

SunshineGrrl 10-28-2011 02:31 PM

You said you scrunched in product to the ends. Did the canopy that is seeing the frizz get any product or the same amount of product? When I apply product, I apply product upside down, then flip back right-side up and made sure to concentrate on applying product to the canopy because applying upside down doesn't get my canopy. That could account for the frizz...because it's not getting any or as much product as the rest of the hair...I also concentrate on applying more product to my canopy with conditioner/PT's because I apply them upside down first.

And if I plop (which is seldom now because of my length, it's simply too short to get good curl definition in a plop...I'm going to try again with my Curl-Ease, since I had most success with that), when I take it out, I'll apply a little bit more product to the canopy again because when plopping, that's the place the plopping soaks up the most water/product.

You might also want to try squeezing water out with your hands and applying the product to soaking wet hair, then plop. I've heard many people say that helped them with their frizz problem. I would also second raking the product into your canopy as that might help the frizzy strands find a clump. Then you can scrunch to help encourage the curls to pop out.

With the Repair Me, you actually do not need another conditioner after it. It has the protein and moisture built in. That's what I love about it. For right now, if I were you, I wouldn't use a leave-in and see what kind of results you get. AOMM is pretty moisturizing in itself, too.

mamaherrera 10-28-2011 03:06 PM

Thanks for quick reply
I will try all that, that's some good tips for my techniques, I did glaze some AOMM over my canopy if that's any help. Yeah it's bad!! I never had this before. Obviously I wasn't needing protein or that would've helped no?? But it didn't hurt either, so I guess I can try some curl balms like you had as curl enhancers, I just need some kind of curl enhancer, or would AOMM be one?? I want to try supersoaker just like she has it in the video, but without leave in, but she supposedly does a base of a curl creme, then wets/combs, and then puts in a gelly, so would that mean AOMM for me, comb, and then more AOMM?? Also, do you think I'll be ok combing through my hair for the supersoaker not having any conditioner in?? People have scared me of that!

Finally, since you have a funky scalp too, any ideas on why I got this slight burn/slight itch?? I was going to try Nioxin scalp recovery, because it supposedly didn't have sulfates, but not the new version does. So I don't know what could help unclog those hair follicles, I'm scared maybe the tea tree oil in my shampoo last night caused the irritation, that or the PT being on my head for 15 minutes. I might try using Giovanni TTT for a low poo every other day and see if that helps. I wish there were lowpoo that had zinc in it. So many things, no?? But yeah, totally sucks, I washed my hair and it was more itchy/burny than when I went five days without washing. What do you make of that???

SunshineGrrl 10-28-2011 04:42 PM

My guess would be that it was the tea tree oil. It can work that way for some people. My sister, for instance. It doesn't do that for my scalp, but makes her scalp burn for days. Just don't do it again, go back to what you were doing before and it should go back to normal. I highly doubt it was the Repair Me, because the products in it are fairly common and I would be willing to bet are probably found in your other products.

Sometimes with protein, it takes a few tries to fix the hair completely. It's not going to be an immediate fix.

Also keep in mind that AOMM doesn't have a great amount of hold, so if you're using it, you might want to either put a harder holding gel on top of it to see if your frizz improves, or maybe try the mousse SegB was talking about. I really like using mousse. It's easy to distribute, doesn't weigh hair down, etc. I actually have 2 canisters of the 3-in-1 Condition (Purple one) mousse in my arsenal. I've only found it at Walgreen's. For mousse, I also like Joico JoiWhip (but it does have protein), AG Mousse/Gel (also has protein), and Paul Mitchell Sculpting Foam.

If you want a local, cheap drugstore brand gel, you could try Aussie Instant Freeze, Monkey Brains gel (can be found at Walgreens also), L'Oreal Studio Clean Gel, and any LA Looks Gel that doesn't have protein if you want to avoid them. All of the above are protein free.

P.S. You're GF Pure Clean Extra Strong Styling Gel has glycerin pretty high on the ingredient list. That might be why it's not working well for you.

SegB 10-28-2011 05:50 PM

I could be way off base here, but it almost looks like your *hairs* are reaching out for moisture...I wonder if cutting out the glycerin and major humectants and adding a good rinse out conditioner as well as a deep treatment every few days would help. Along with smoothing a little of your products down your hair.

I also do think you need to get a good low poo that clarifies enough to get the gunk out of your hair...I am really loving the Queen Helene Royal Curl one...It's at Whole Foods.

Forgive me if this was suggested before...

mamaherrera 10-30-2011 12:25 PM

update here
I tried your all's suggestions last night. I did run a comb through (hard on a tender scalp) but anyways. . . . then I did no leave in and ran AOMM over the canopy before combing, I mean, and did a super soaker and then some more aomm scrunching on ends. Now I got WAY better frizz controll, but some curls on the ends still octoupusing (like someone said, they're reaching out for moisture). Could it be I need some leave in just on the ends? But now I had major white gel crunch, product totally on my canopy and I can't get rid of it. I 'm going to rewet/rinse and restyle, but how do I avoid this for next time?? We're on the right road!! Also, I like your comment there, SegB, about less humectants, but it's hard to find a natural gelly that isn't full of humectants, you know what I mean? They're all about aloe vera, which is a humectant. Any options for very natural gels that have no humectnats, let me know. Maybe today I'll try my Loreal clean gel. But again, not sure if those chemicals give me the itchies. It's such a hard call. One day I wuold love to be one of those naturals who don't use gel, but only a good leave in and that's it. Or just a good leave in and curl cream and no gel. Taht's where I'd like to be some day. . . some day!!

wavysue 10-31-2011 08:26 PM


One day I wuold love to be one of those naturals who don't use gel, but only a good leave in and that's it. Or just a good leave in and curl cream and no gel. Taht's where I'd like to be some day. . . some day!!
You may want that but your hair might not LOL You can't make it do what it can't do or you'll have to live with some frizz, less defintion more poof-like hair without a gel to control it. Creams and LI's aren't really meant to hold looser waves like you have. You should give IA Girls Flax cream a shot that might actually work as an all in one product for you but it still requires a gel. AOMM isn't really a gel & it's heavy with oil isn't it??? I think I tried it at some point and hated it I also can't tolerate a lot of oils in my hair or I get weird spidery frizz. You still haven't tried a PT have you? LOL That could solve your problems too don't be afraid of it, adding moisture is easier than taking it away IMHO. The one time I did a PT for too long my hair was a little dry but then I just added extra conditioner the next day and VOILA back to normal. Have you tried coconut oil as a Pre-Poo it's amazing and one of the few oils that work for wavy types (and lots of other hair types too) it also helps to retain protein in your hair & it moisturizes too. Do a search on the 2's forum you'll find lots of wavies that have posted how they use it. It really seems your protein/moisture balance is way off.

mamaherrera 10-31-2011 10:35 PM

I know
I know that's probably true, but I just hate gel because it seems to make me itch and feel dried out. I might have to look into that flax seed stuff., I've tried flaxseed gel but can't get the recipe to work for me. :sad7: Plus I get tired of this 2nd day hair issue, I don't like to always have to get in teh shower and rewet, dries out my scalp, but if I can't comb it, what more can I do with it but to put it up. And then I feel like if I spritz and add more gel, I'm going to get that white producty stuff. AOMM has no oils, lots of aloe vera and humectants, but I do get lots of spidery web stuff. For you, when you get that, what does it mean?? I get a lot of that! I don't think I should use lots of humectant, because I"m in an arid climate, but most gels have glycerin or aloe or something to that matter. And then if they don't they have all chemicals. Sunshine Girl said she's in Utah, they're dry and she can use some humectants. Others have told me that humectants work if you use a good moisturizing leave in, but now Im been told not to use leave in, so I don't if I should ban humectants. I'm so confused. Sunshine girl, you do use a curl cream before your gel, no?? I Mean, something that would give me some moisture would maybe help my hair handle gel.
As for PT, I did try Repair me and left it on for fifteen minutes. Was that long enough?? I did it with a hot towel. but I saw no improvements or anything worse, so how often do you think I should do that?? I have no idea of knowing when my hair needs it, since it often looks spider webby!!

wavysue 11-01-2011 09:15 AM


For you, when you get that, what does it mean?? I get a lot of that! I don't think I should use lots of humectant, because I"m in an arid climate, but most gels have glycerin or aloe or something to that matter. And then if they don't they have all chemicals. Sunshine Girl said she's in Utah, they're dry and she can use some humectants. Others have told me that humectants work if you use a good moisturizing leave in, but now Im been told not to use leave in, so I don't if I should ban humectants.
I'm not really sure exactly what it means I think it's just the oil sitting on top of the hair, not getting absorbed so it makes it frizz and just looks generally ICK. You really have to do what works for you and it's not always easy trying to figure that out. People will give you all sorts of advice but you have to experiment, as you know what works for one person doesn't work for another. With your fine-ish looking hair you will need to be careful to not overDo the moisture and keep your protein/moisture bal in check. If Repair Me didn't do much for you you might need to try something else. The generic version of KPak readily avail. at Sally's and cheap. I know you're supposed to do a DT after but I seldom need to do that myself. If it feels rough afterwards then I add some conditioner without protein like GVP Balm afterwards and I'm good to goo. I do them about once every 2 months or so haven't really developed a routine, just do it when my hair is looking sorta droopy or too frizzy. I've even used the KPak (a pea size) as a LI when I didn't have time to do a PT or I use SS Protein Spray as needed in certain spots.

mamaherrera 11-01-2011 10:21 AM

One more question
thanks a lot, I really do like your sharing, because it at least gives me some ideas. I know it's all about experimenting, but I get so frustrated and if you don't get help like from you all, you can go way one extreme and hit rock bottom and still not know what to do. wouldn't it be nice if hair stylists knew more about hair needs and not just cuts, no?? I'll keep trying to see if I can get gellys to work for me as they are more natural for now. I definitely am not fine hair, but from my hair analysis was told I'm medium thickness, and my husband thinks I have thick hair but that's just because it's thicker than both my daughters, so it looks thick to him. I have one more question for you wavie colleagues please. there are times where my hair is already clean, but I've slept on it and it looks bad and even with a spritz of water it ain't going to do anything that is presentable. So I want to pull it up but then with the caviat of no comb, how can I get those side frizzies to calm down and how can I get the kinks out if I'm not supposed to comb without conditioner?? I"m stuck where since what I used to do is not good, I don't know what to do except look like crap!! :smilebox:

SegB 11-01-2011 11:11 AM

I think you need to stop thinking "I can't do that" or "I am not supposed to do that" and start experimenting on what works for you. So if you want to put your hair up, try coating some conditioner on there and lightly running a comb through to gather your hair. That may work for you!

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