Am I the only one...

who gets stressed out about this whole thing about cones & sulfates? What is it about them that is harmful for your hair? Do they cause it to be brittle and break? Now every time I go to use any product in my hair whether it be shampoo, conditioner, or gel I get uneasy. When I tried doing cg as far as cleansing my hair it was a nightmare. I am so confused! Am I alone?
3B, Fine, Low Porosity, & High Hair Density
Basically, if you use cones you will need sulfates to remove them and sulfates can be very drying to already dry curly hair.

This is not worth getting stressed about. Everyone has a different routine, tweaks them constantly and no-one is right.
I have finally realized I look my best when my hair tells me how it is going to fall, and I just make suggestions.

3A BSL
It's less stress just to avoid them I swear.
Cones smother the hair and if you don't get them off the hair they'll cause your hair to slowly go straight. Also Polyquats for some of us too.
Sulfates needed to properly remove the cones dry the hair out.

Now not everyone's hair is damaged by sulfates. Or cones for that matter. Some hair is more prone to having problems with cones or sulfates. The only way you'll know is to try both ways of treating your hair.

Also there is some middle ground, easy to remove cones and sulfat free poos Like you weren't stressed enough right?
2c/3a?
Low porosity, medium texture.
http://public.fotki.com/Medusahair/

If it smells good put it in your hair, if it tastes good spit it out!
It's not that they're harmful per se, but if you are on a routine where you aren't using shampoo regularly to remove product with non-soluble cones, then THIS can lead to dry and brittle hair. Silicones generally attract moisture to the hair, but if not removed, can prevent the hair from receiving moisture(causing dry hair). Since most people shampoo their hair(regularly), the cones don't have a change to build up. But you'd then have to worry about using strong shampoos that end up drying the hair out anyway.

While I don't have any problems particularly with some cones, I just prefer avoiding them. Makes things easier for me, especially since that means I don't have shampoo often.

It's not worth getting stressed out, though. You just have to find what works for you. It shouldn't be stressful, unless you are expecting results that you aren't getting.
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Okay, I think I understand. Thank you for your reply's. So I take it that the cones come from things such as gels. What do you style your hair with that does not contain cones?

The problem that I seem to have with my hair is that it breaks off towards the middle or bottom part of the strand. Does that make since? (I have a lot of hair towards the top of my head, but it gets thinner down at the length). I'm wondering if this could be because of cones in my gel. Is dimethicone a nasty one? I alternate between three different Ouidad gels and they all contain that one I believe. I haven't understood why I have breakage because I totally pamper my hair. I almost always air dry, I never straighten it, I rarely color it, I rarely if ever pull it up, but I still see it break. It's very frustrating!

What if you continue to use cones and sulfates but do more deep treatments. Would that be a solution to the dryness/brittle factor?
3B, Fine, Low Porosity, & High Hair Density
When I read Ouidad's book some years ago I noticed she puts a lot of emphasis on using proteins and avoiding oils which IMO may work for some people but I seriously doubt for too many. I know her Climate Control gel has wheat protein and amino acids, and on fairly healthy hair like yours it can build up keeping moisture out, this in turn causing dryness and brittlenes that leads to breakage. (Oh boy, I bet I just gave you the stress the 'cones didn't! ) But RELAX, it's fairly easy to return moisture to the hair, we even have a "recipe" (in the appropriate forum) for that!

There are enough gels without 'cones or proteins out there, swing over to the "Readers' Product Reviews" and I'm sure you can find recommendations for a few.
2A/3A, medium length, layered, colored dark/medium ash blonde - "CGer" since April '02.

"Converting the 'curlskeptics' one curly head at a time..." HWHC
I'm pretty sure that Ouidad's Tress f/x doesn't have dimethicone, or any other cones, so if you like it maybe you should stick to that one.
thick 3b; currently loving Devacurl and Kinky-Curly

Actually, it's harder to find conditioners without silicones than gels without silicones. There are plenty of good cone-free gels out there.
In my past posts I've sworn that it doesn't make a difference, or at least that it "doesn't bother ME", but every time I go back to a cone routine I end up with dry brittle hair. The cones suffocate my hair, moisture isn't allowed in, and the sulfates used to remove them dries it out even more.

I've gone back and forth from cg to not cg about 3 times. This most recent experience I was back to using cones (b/c I kept saying, if they market them, and everyone else can use them, why can't I), but my hair felt like straw. I was constantly cutting off split ends, and the ends were a damaged dry mess.

I've done this cycle a few times of going back to cones, destroying my hair, and going cg to repair it. I've been using Jessicurl products for a little over a week now and I LOVE them! My hair has hugely improved. I love that the HCC makes me FEEL like I'm shampooing, and the conditioner (I'm using Too Shea!) makes my hair feel silky and soft. While most conditioners w/o cones don't give that silky feeling.

Off my soapbox now.
~ the artist formerly known as babywavy ~

Please excuse any typos. For the time being, we are blaming it on my computer.
Actually, it's harder to find conditioners without silicones than gels without silicones. There are plenty of good cone-free gels out there.
Originally Posted by SuZen
Exactly what I was thinking.
3a/2c f/mii. pics added 2/3/07
My hair has hugely improved. I love that the HCC makes me FEEL like I'm shampooing, and the conditioner (I'm using Too Shea!) makes my hair feel silky and soft. While most conditioners w/o cones don't give that silky feeling.
Originally Posted by babywavy
I am SO thrilled to see you "say" this!!! I feel like your proud "hair mentor" in this last try. I know some people feel that we old-time CGers are fanatical about it but you can see for yourself now that the products used DO have a lot to do with the results. From now on, even if you occasionally decide to use a product with 'cones (as many of us sometimes have done), I hope you just regard them as a very temporary "emergency" measure (like let's say when the hair freaks out after a sudden weather changes and you have to go "out there" looking decent, or just feel like straightening one day) and you won't ever go back to them full-time. You have been able to see for yourself that their benefits are really only temporary, whereas FEEDING the hair what it really needs makes a true long-lasting difference.
2A/3A, medium length, layered, colored dark/medium ash blonde - "CGer" since April '02.

"Converting the 'curlskeptics' one curly head at a time..." HWHC
My hair has hugely improved. I love that the HCC makes me FEEL like I'm shampooing, and the conditioner (I'm using Too Shea!) makes my hair feel silky and soft. While most conditioners w/o cones don't give that silky feeling.
Originally Posted by babywavy
I am SO thrilled to see you "say" this!!! I feel like your proud "hair mentor" in this last try. I know some people feel that we old-time CGers are fanatical about it but you can see for yourself now that the products used DO have a lot to do with the results. From now on, even if you occasionally decide to use a product with 'cones (as many of us sometimes have done), I hope you just regard them as a very temporary "emergency" measure (like let's say when the hair freaks out after a sudden weather changes and you have to go "out there" looking decent, or just feel like straightening one day) and you won't ever go back to them full-time. You have been able to see for yourself that their benefits are really only temporary, whereas FEEDING the hair what it really needs makes a true long-lasting difference.
Originally Posted by HalfWavyHalfCurly

Yes, I do frequently find longtime Cg-ers to be fanatical - though I do know how it feels to KNOW something works, and want to get others to see it too.

Being here so long, I've learned all the hair lessons, and I know these things, but I don't always APPLY them to myself. I backslide, and move on to different things when I get tired of a routine or have a bad hair day. In the past though, I've always tried to do CG the cheap way, and this way seems to have made all the difference. I don't feel the oily, too conditioned, not clean feeling that I felt with co-washing.

I shouldn't say that I'm "CG" b/c I'm blowing out my hair, but that's just what's working right now w/ my pregnant hair - but I am NOT using sulfates, and I'm NOT using cones. I've always known sulfates are a big bad no-no for me b/c they dry me out SO bad, but I prefer the feeling of being "shampoo'd" so I always go back. And then of course I use cones to combat the dryness of the sulfates, and the cycle goes on and on.

Yes, the right products make SUCH a difference!! I'm planning on my next purchase and I'll be buying the BIG bottles of HCC and Too Shea. Like I said, I don't FEEL like I'm CG right now, I'm just using the right products, but that was the best decision.

My hair thanks you HWHC!!
~ the artist formerly known as babywavy ~

Please excuse any typos. For the time being, we are blaming it on my computer.
1curlydoc, you were right about Tress/fx. No cones.

What about biolage gelee? As I read through the ingredient list, that one seems okay to me as well.

babywavy, you make me laugh. I am glad that you are having success with Jessicurl products. I had actually gone to that website last night and was contemplating whether or not to try those products again. The HCC didn't work for me, but I loved the condtioners. Now I am thinking that when I tried doing CG before I didn't do it right. I think I put too much conditioner (usually suave) in when I did the co washes and it made my scalp feel terrible. I have learned a lot since then. I have learned that my hair does really well with just rinsing my scalp with water and giving it a good massage. I rarely shampoo anyway, I just didn't realize that plain old water was suggested in the cg routine until now. Sometimes I rub in some stimulating scalp massage oil the night before I water wash it and it feels great. My hair is so dry I think I do need to take a break from sulfates. Looking at my product list I have realized that I really haven't been using any cones other than dimethicone in some of my gels. I am curious what cones people are referring to in conditioners. What are they called?

HalfWavyHalfCurly, I think you are right about the wheat protein. I have heard before that too much protein can be damaging. I think that is probably the culprit along with the sulfates. My hair has become brittle. Now it is all making more sense.

I think you gals have all made me think that perhaps I should give cg a try again. I have done ACV rinses from time to time when I felt like I had product buildup, but I never did them when I was having problems with the cg routine.

Thank you all for your feedback. Again, I am very curious about what cones are found in conditioners. Please let me know what they are.
3B, Fine, Low Porosity, & High Hair Density
Babywavy:

Tell you hair it's very welcome I have learned to respect people's wishes about what they want to do with their hair. Last Friday I did a color correction on a cousin whose hair was darkened too much at a salon and she had lots of split ends on the canopy, she's a wavie who has made it clear she prefers straight hair as she is (wrongly) convinced hair with body doesn't look good on her, I totally disagree because her features are angular and some body or even waves would definitely soften it but it's her head so all I could do was give my frank opinion. Anyway, when she first came to see me I told her she should recondition her hair first and wash with CO only and to this purpose loaded her with some of mine, including DTs and oils because doing a color removal and recoloring can be very drying to the hair.

Her 2nd visit was only 11 days later and I know that in the meantime she did maybe 1 hot oil treatmen, one overnight oil one and maybe one cream DT. A couple of days before she came I instructed her to do a protein pack and when I inspected her hair it looked pretty good, in fact the bottom hair looked very healthy. The Colorfix is very creamy and didn't leave her hair rough and the ION Brilliance (professional cream color) was which is conditioning also and only left on her hair maybe 10 mins. left her hair in good condition. I rinsed all residue out with COs and then put a leave-in with jojoba oil, she argued that leave-ins left her hair "hard" but I assured her this one wouldn't, then I proceeded to blow dry her and you couldn't even see the split ends. Up to that day she'd been going to school and work with her hair pinned on the back and she actually decided to NOT put the pins back on when she left because she "had to do some shopping"...

The real point I want to make with all this is that our hair does respond to TLC, so if we choose to do anything at all that may rob the hair of its moisture it makes even more sense to spare it from other drying practices such as using harsh shampoo.

curlybean:

The other name for silicones is siloxanes, that's why many of us didn't suspect a thing when suddenly all COs began listing cyclopentasiloxane among the first ingredients right around '03. Another one that slips by is dimethiconol (present in Suave "professionals" and Dove). But I understand that one is not very hard to remove; even dimethicone, the first one to become really popular back in either the late '80s or early '90s is easy to remove. I once had to use a hair cream that had it as a main ingredient about 2-3X a week for like 45 days (while in another country) and an ACV rinse and CO wash 2X/week prevented any build up.
2A/3A, medium length, layered, colored dark/medium ash blonde - "CGer" since April '02.

"Converting the 'curlskeptics' one curly head at a time..." HWHC

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