Somebody help me. Help me please! *pops voice*

HELLO ALL!

I'll cut right to the chase. I've been natural for about 2.25 years. The first year, I transitioned by getting sew ins. Between each sew in, I trimmed off the perm, little by little. After about 10 months or so, it was all gone and I started to wear my hair out. I had NO CLUE what I was doing! I got flat it ironed and everything. Then I got hooked to Youtube and decided to try EVERY product that I saw someone else use (that worked for their hair).

So, these last few months, I've been researching hair period. The basic structure of hair and each element of it, Ph etc. I've learned so much. I always had a regimen. I would wash my hair weekly, condition, "moisturize" and twist. I would wear that one twist out for the week; retwisting at night as needed. I use the satin scarf as well. (I understand now the damage regular shampoo does to hair.)

Okay, that's the basis. Now here's where I need your help ladies. I have 4c hair (per the information I've seen here). MY HAIR IS ALWAYS DRY! I mean even on the day I deep condition and twist using oils to seal in the moisture, later that day/night, my hair will look and feel very dry. I have several leave-ins, I use shae butter, I use different oils, ETC. Frankly, I'm sick of spending so much $ trying different products!

I just tried the cg method for the first time, and my hair has air dried and looks like a freakin COTTON BALL! I'm so serious!!!! Are there any 4c ladies that have success w/ the cg method?

Last thing: I promise! I think because of my ignorance for the majority of my journey, I may have damaged my hair to the point where it's pretty much just stuck. I haven't seen any growth in well over 5 months I'm sure. And that's when I began to really research and I made the necessary changes. Soo0o0o0o0o I think I'll CHOP all my hair off, and start from scratch.

What are your thoughts?
(sorry I wrote a book. But my name pretty much describes me :-) Have to be thorough).

Peace & Blessings,

KnowledgeSeeker
the point of this website is to get answers to the questions for which you seek!

I have 3a hair, but i can try to give you some advice.

When i started cg i was clueless as well. It sucks spending money in order to find the best products for your hair. I am lucky to have other natural curlies in my life to help me out. We sawp products back and forth. if i buy something and it doesnt work i give it to one of them. some products in up going full circle. if you have other naturals in you life try that.

Also have you found out all your hair properties? go here:

Live Curly Live Free - Home

usually when hair is dry it needs moisture via deep condish, but if you are doing this on a regular, but your hair still seems dry, but super soft, it may be over condished. try a protein treatment.

i wish i could ofer more help. Good luck on your hair journey.

remember its a learning curve. I'm still learning.
i have 3c/b hair and while i dont know any other natural curlies round here, i can only really give you advice on what i do, i believe that healthy hair growth starts from the scalp, so if it is indeed not growing due to damage, i would think bout cutting it off n starting from scratch like you thought. try taking hair vitamins, boitin is good when your growing it out,but i think for the first few months it might help if you take a mixture, so vitamins that are for hair.
I'm really fussy with what goes on n in my hair, and i generally only use natural things, so thats herbs, oils and that type of stuff. these no right or wrong answer with how to use them, its just about finding what works for you. i use a mixture of different herbs and message it on my scalp, which cleans my scalp and stimulates growth.
i agree with what thelio said about your moisture problem. try sealing you hair with a good oil at when you've washed your hair, this will help with future breakage.....
i shower at night so i can put all the goodies in my hair and let it to do its thing while i sleep but thats just me.
i hope somthing will help, good luck and let us know how you get on

my hair: 3c, high porosity, high density and coarse hair (i think i finally figured that all out)
my hair loves conditioner only styling!
my hair goal length is bra strap length when curly.

I also blog about my hair journey, please feel free to read and comment/ask questions http://www.naturallycurly.com/blogs/...air-blogs/2494
Woman I need a regimen!!! What, precisely, are you using and how? Give me deets!!

Also, you may very well be heat-damaged from flat ironing your hair. Not necessarily, but if you've done it consistently then more than likely you have some damage that will eventually just need to be cut off. That can affect the hair's porosity. I've read from other naturals that heat damage can lower the hair's porosity, and for a lot of low porosity ladies, shea butter is the debil. DEBIL I say! (sorry, I'm a little loopy right now) I've heard that it just sits on the hair and doesn't really moisturize.

If you haven't already, take a look at the 4a forum. A lot of women there have experience with some of the issues you've raised. FYI, I'm a 4a natural.
I'll def check out the info you posted. I have tried it ALL girl! lol I did a protein treatment a couple of weeks ago... it was ok. The only time I saw true moisture was after doing a hot oil treatment. :-/
Maybe I should do that once a week. I think I may just need a really good daily moisturizer. Leave-in's just don't seem to be doing it for me.

Thanks for your help.
:-)

the point of this website is to get answers to the questions for which you seek!

I have 3a hair, but i can try to give you some advice.

When i started cg i was clueless as well. It sucks spending money in order to find the best products for your hair. I am lucky to have other natural curlies in my life to help me out. We sawp products back and forth. if i buy something and it doesnt work i give it to one of them. some products in up going full circle. if you have other naturals in you life try that.

Also have you found out all your hair properties? go here:

Live Curly Live Free - Home

usually when hair is dry it needs moisture via deep condish, but if you are doing this on a regular, but your hair still seems dry, but super soft, it may be over condished. try a protein treatment.

i wish i could ofer more help. Good luck on your hair journey.

remember its a learning curve. I'm still learning.
Originally Posted by thelio
I am laughing uncontrollably right now from your passion you've displayed! Anywho, my regimen.
Sunday is my wash/co-wash day. Up until 2 weeks ago I would wash on Sunday. Deep condition. Detangle. Put leave-in in (Cantu usually), I'd then twist it, using raw shae butter oil to seal in the moisture. I don't touch my hair during the week really. I re-twist on Wed usually, never using a comb or anything... just my fingers. I also re-moisturize with a leave in cond that I have on Wed when I re twist. If I see my hair looks dry, I may spritz it with water. That's about it.

I had heat damage about a year ago when I flat ironed my hair to clip my ends. I cut all the damaged hair off. That's pretty much my regimen. Oh! Styles... mainly puffs because my twist outs RARELY turned out right. my hair is a decent length, but def not where it needs to be after 2+ years! BTW: Yea, I stopped using shae butter.... It did NOTHING to my hair but piss me off. smh

Your thoughts?

p.s. THANK YOU FOR RESPONDING!

Woman I need a regimen!!! What, precisely, are you using and how? Give me deets!!

Also, you may very well be heat-damaged from flat ironing your hair. Not necessarily, but if you've done it consistently then more than likely you have some damage that will eventually just need to be cut off. That can affect the hair's porosity. I've read from other naturals that heat damage can lower the hair's porosity, and for a lot of low porosity ladies, shea butter is the debil. DEBIL I say! (sorry, I'm a little loopy right now) I've heard that it just sits on the hair and doesn't really moisturize.

If you haven't already, take a look at the 4a forum. A lot of women there have experience with some of the issues you've raised. FYI, I'm a 4a natural.
Originally Posted by Ronnieaj
Hey KnowledgeSeeker,

I am sorry you are having such a frustrating time with your hair on your journey. We've all been there at some point and it's definitely most frustrating when you're spending lots of $$ and time figuring stuff out and they don't seem to work.

If I can give you one piece of advice, it's to go to Live Curly Live Free - Home and learn thoroughly about your hair properties. I actually bought the e-book which is basically all of the information on the website plus a couple extras (I really like the section called "putting it all together" because it helps you relate your specific hair properties to what you should be doing). Some people might argue that the book might not be worth the 9USD or so Tiffany charges for it but considering her generosity with scientific information and her valiant fight against using visual curl classification systems as the basis of hair care routines it was my pleasure to buy the e-book.

HOW YOUR HAIR LOOKS should have nothing to do with your choices of what to put on it. Sure, most curly-haired people have hair that is more dry than people with straight hair because oils from the scalp can't travel down the hairshaft easily, but once you get past THAT, it is your hair PROPERTIES that should form the foundation of the decisions you make about what to put in your hair (along with the weather).

Let me say that again: it is your hair's porosity, texture, elasticity, density and the dew point on any given day that will be most helpful to you in determining the products to use on any given day. Your visual classification might influence your styling technique a bit but not your product ingredients. This is key. Key to saving a lot of time, $$ and frustration.

Let's look at an example: two ladies have 4c hair, but one of them has hair that is very coarse and porous, and the other has hair that is very fine and porous. They both decide to cram their hair full of rich conditioners with oils and butters. Lady 1 will have very good looking hair as a result of all the emollients she's using, and lady 2 will have a mess. You can't look to visual hair identification systems for information on how to care for your hair. Even if curlmart sells hair product bundles for VISUAL hair type, that shouldn't indicate to you that it is an effective system.

Understand your hair properties and dew points how they should affect your choices of products and product INGREDIENTS and you will be a much more educated consumer and you will have much more control over your hair. We will never get it to act predictably all the time, but in this industry where there is SO MUCH MISINFORMATION, going back to science and basics is key. The great thing about Tiffany's book is that she helps you relate it to practical day-to-day hair care.

Also, if you get stuck on your hair properties, you can send a strand to livecurlylivefree for analysis. I haven't done that and still wonder whether my diagnosis of my hair's properties is correct but at least I understand that it sits somewhere between fine and medium and somewhere between normal to high porosity and that has REALLY helped me with my product ingredient selection. But it is also important to know that your hair's porosity might change depending on what you are subjecting it to, since heat and chemical processing and subjection to other elements can cause hair to become more porous.

Good luck on your journey. Science is your friend.
Texture: fine-medium
Porosity: high-normal
Elasticity: normal
Experimenting with making my own products. Hair loves protein.
Farah85,

Thank you for all of the great information! I actually did check that site out last night. Another curly told me about it. I may have to purchase the book. I really enjoyed reading the information on the site. I love learning. lol (hence the name). Anywho, this is what I've been thinking. I learned about the Ph of hair about 3 weeks ago.

I viewed some videos by Kimmaytube on youtube. She has this leave-in recipe that she made that is exactly 4.5 on the Ph scale. My question to you, sence you've read the ebook already, is can I be certain that this mixture will work for me? Ture, it's 4.5 Ph which is the same as hair, BUT, given that my hair properties (porosity, texture, elasticity and density) are very important, should I figure out what will work for my hair (oil, cream, butter, etc) given the different properties it has and create my own leave-in mixture that has a Ph of 4.5? I know that was a long run on sentence. lol sorry.

Your thoughts?

KnowledgeSeeker
Farah85,

Thank you for all of the great information! I actually did check that site out last night. Another curly told me about it. I may have to purchase the book. I really enjoyed reading the information on the site. I love learning. lol (hence the name). Anywho, this is what I've been thinking. I learned about the Ph of hair about 3 weeks ago.

I viewed some videos by Kimmaytube on youtube. She has this leave-in recipe that she made that is exactly 4.5 on the Ph scale. My question to you, sence you've read the ebook already, is can I be certain that this mixture will work for me? Ture, it's 4.5 Ph which is the same as hair, BUT, given that my hair properties (porosity, texture, elasticity and density) are very important, should I figure out what will work for my hair (oil, cream, butter, etc) given the different properties it has and create my own leave-in mixture that has a Ph of 4.5? I know that was a long run on sentence. lol sorry.

Your thoughts?

KnowledgeSeeker
Originally Posted by KnowledgeSeeker
I can't tell you for sure whether the product will work for you for two reasons:

1. I don't know your hair properties or what is in the leave in beyond the fact hat it has a pH of 4.5; and
2. pH is only part of a the story. pH balanced products are great and understanding how pH affects your hair cuticle (the outer layer of your hair) is important because it will relate to your regimen in various ways. And yes, a leave in with a lower pH is a great idea because it will shut your cuticle back down reducing frizz and tangling.

If your hair is porous (which it most likely is considering it's been subjected to heat from a flat iron - unless all of that was chopped off) then the low pH will have a definite positive effect. But this is only part of the picture. If your hair is fine and porous you probably also need to fortify it with proteins. If your hair is coarse and porous then the acidity is a great way of shutting the cuticle but you probably want to use some oils to soften your hair and prevent moisture from escaping. If your hair is not very porous then the acidity might actually prevent your leave in from being thoroughly absorbed into your hair shaft because you're blocking whatever possible doors are left to it. It is recommended that people with non-porous hair open up their cuticles a bit with warm water to allow conditioner to enter before a cold water rinse / a highly acidic product.

POINT IS, I can't tell you how this product will affect your hair, beyond the fact that I can tell you that it will help shut down your cuticle. Deciding what else goes in it depends on what your hair's specific properties (and therefore needs) are. Even if you don't purchase the book, a lot of information is available on that site that can help you understand better what your hair's needs are.

Good luck!
Texture: fine-medium
Porosity: high-normal
Elasticity: normal
Experimenting with making my own products. Hair loves protein.
Farah85,

Thank you for all of the great information! I actually did check that site out last night. Another curly told me about it. I may have to purchase the book. I really enjoyed reading the information on the site. I love learning. lol (hence the name). Anywho, this is what I've been thinking. I learned about the Ph of hair about 3 weeks ago.

I viewed some videos by Kimmaytube on youtube. She has this leave-in recipe that she made that is exactly 4.5 on the Ph scale. My question to you, sence you've read the ebook already, is can I be certain that this mixture will work for me? Ture, it's 4.5 Ph which is the same as hair, BUT, given that my hair properties (porosity, texture, elasticity and density) are very important, should I figure out what will work for my hair (oil, cream, butter, etc) given the different properties it has and create my own leave-in mixture that has a Ph of 4.5? I know that was a long run on sentence. lol sorry.

Your thoughts?

KnowledgeSeeker
Originally Posted by KnowledgeSeeker
There's no harm in trying the kimmaytube leave-in first and seeing how your hair responds. Many people have excellent success with it regardless of porosity. If you don't normally mix your products, then I'd start here and see how your hair responds, and make adjustments from there.

The one thing that I learned early in this journey was that I had to listen to MY hair only, and not get overwhelmed by what people say I should do. I have normal/coarse hair, NOT fine, normal porosity, no chemicals of any sort on my hair. Many naturals in that position hate protein. My hair is a protein-fiend; it is my hair's BFF, and I have setbacks whenever I stop using it. If you find your hair getting mushy, like overcooked spaghetti, then you need to incorporate more protein (it just doesn't necessarily need to be in a leave-in format). If your hair gets hard, breaks easily etc., then maybe you're using too much or the wrong kind for your hair.

The one thing I'd noticed in one of your responses was how you wear your hair. Your ends are constantly exposed, and that may be hindering your progress. Have you considered bunning or just wearing twists without the -out? Your hair probably needs the least amount of manipulation possible, to be left alone and not bothered to see optimum results. You may also want to consider baggying or GHE to increase moisture. There are multiple threads in the 4a forum about it. I can't give you specifics because my hair doesn't like them, but they work wonders for other heads of hair, and are worth taking a look at.
There's no harm in trying the kimmaytube leave-in first and seeing how your hair responds. Many people have excellent success with it regardless of porosity. If you don't normally mix your products, then I'd start here and see how your hair responds, and make adjustments from there.

The one thing that I learned early in this journey was that I had to listen to MY hair only, and not get overwhelmed by what people say I should do. I have normal/coarse hair, NOT fine, normal porosity, no chemicals of any sort on my hair. Many naturals in that position hate protein. My hair is a protein-fiend; it is my hair's BFF, and I have setbacks whenever I stop using it. If you find your hair getting mushy, like overcooked spaghetti, then you need to incorporate more protein (it just doesn't necessarily need to be in a leave-in format). If your hair gets hard, breaks easily etc., then maybe you're using too much or the wrong kind for your hair.

The one thing I'd noticed in one of your responses was how you wear your hair. Your ends are constantly exposed, and that may be hindering your progress. Have you considered bunning or just wearing twists without the -out? Your hair probably needs the least amount of manipulation possible, to be left alone and not bothered to see optimum results. You may also want to consider baggying or GHE to increase moisture. There are multiple threads in the 4a forum about it. I can't give you specifics because my hair doesn't like them, but they work wonders for other heads of hair, and are worth taking a look at.
Originally Posted by Ronnieaj
@ronnieaj you are right; ultimately, we should listen to our hair. I guess I'm trying to send Knowledgeseeker in the direction that I WISH I was sent to when I started on this journey 2.5 years ago. We might find that not everything that should presumably work on our hair based on its properties will work and vice versa, but at least it's a better place to start than complete darkness or marketing campaigns intended to get us to purchase, purchase, purchase without much education. Is all. It also allows us to play with variables more intelligently and save lots of $$ along the way..
Texture: fine-medium
Porosity: high-normal
Elasticity: normal
Experimenting with making my own products. Hair loves protein.
My hair: Course with a Normal Porosity. I usually don't keep my twists as a style because of shrinkage. My twists never turn out "cute" enough to wear as a style. I have work them under beanies before and done protective styles lately. I'll def check out what bagging is and give it a try before I whack this hair off.

Thanks ladies!
My hair: Course with a Normal Porosity. I usually don't keep my twists as a style because of shrinkage. My twists never turn out "cute" enough to wear as a style. I have work them under beanies before and done protective styles lately. I'll def check out what bagging is and give it a try before I whack this hair off.

Thanks ladies!
Originally Posted by KnowledgeSeeker
Do you do your twists wet or dry? When I was having issues with my shrinkage, I'd braid them overnight and let them get mostly dry (cuz my hair doesn't dry in one night), and then twist them on mostly stretched hair. It shows more length, it can help with SSKs as well, and it just looks cuter!

Farah85, I agree with you 100%!! I hope I didn't say anything that would lead you to believe otherwise; if so, that certainly wasn't my intention!
Hehe no you didn't, I just wanted to make sure I'm not sounding like a hair Nazi :P
Texture: fine-medium
Porosity: high-normal
Elasticity: normal
Experimenting with making my own products. Hair loves protein.
I've tried them both ways actually. uhhhh... what is SSKS?

My hair: Course with a Normal Porosity. I usually don't keep my twists as a style because of shrinkage. My twists never turn out "cute" enough to wear as a style. I have work them under beanies before and done protective styles lately. I'll def check out what bagging is and give it a try before I whack this hair off.

Thanks ladies!
Originally Posted by KnowledgeSeeker
Do you do your twists wet or dry? When I was having issues with my shrinkage, I'd braid them overnight and let them get mostly dry (cuz my hair doesn't dry in one night), and then twist them on mostly stretched hair. It shows more length, it can help with SSKs as well, and it just looks cuter!

Farah85, I agree with you 100%!! I hope I didn't say anything that would lead you to believe otherwise; if so, that certainly wasn't my intention!
Originally Posted by Ronnieaj
I've tried them both ways actually. uhhhh... what is SSKS?

My hair: Course with a Normal Porosity. I usually don't keep my twists as a style because of shrinkage. My twists never turn out "cute" enough to wear as a style. I have work them under beanies before and done protective styles lately. I'll def check out what bagging is and give it a try before I whack this hair off.

Thanks ladies!
Originally Posted by KnowledgeSeeker
Do you do your twists wet or dry? When I was having issues with my shrinkage, I'd braid them overnight and let them get mostly dry (cuz my hair doesn't dry in one night), and then twist them on mostly stretched hair. It shows more length, it can help with SSKs as well, and it just looks cuter!

Farah85, I agree with you 100%!! I hope I didn't say anything that would lead you to believe otherwise; if so, that certainly wasn't my intention!
Originally Posted by Ronnieaj
Originally Posted by KnowledgeSeeker
SSK=single strand knots

The little strands of hair that decide to form knots around themselves and are the bane of my hair existence sometimes.

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