I've done a lot of research, now a few more questions?

gjj · 01-25-2012, 12:02 PM

I tried Curly Girl so long ago that I don't even really remember how long I did it or what I did. I couldn't even find my account on this site even though I am quite sure I had one before! I am sorry this post is long, I tried to learn everything I could on my own, then ask any left over questions all together in one post rather than just doing a 'HELP! WHERE TO START!' post.

I have been using a sulfate free shampoo- Freeman Pure Color Fresh Curl Shampoo- (until I'd feel I needed sulfates sometimes & I would use Curlfriends Clarifying shampoo which I saw last night had at least 1 cone it in so it didn't work for clarifying so I bought a cheap btl of Sauve to clarify with one last time today), Redken All Soft Heavy Cream as my conditioner and Condition 3 in 1 maximum hold mousse.

My hair hasn't been terrible but not as great as I think it could be either.

I did a porosity test and my hair just didn't sink so that makes me believe my hair is healthy, it's medium in texture and I would guess at this point about a 3a but closer to a 3b with out getting the curls I know I have!

I've been researching so much and trying to buy products to start, drugstore only at this point.

My questions are:

-If my hair is healthy (according to the porosity test), I should stay away from proteins from what I've read, which means that the Garnier Fortifying Triple Nutrition Conditioner I purchased this morning is not what I should use as my rinse out?

-Does a baking soda wash remove silicones? I really liked how my hair looked when I did that with an ACV rinse and wondered if I could do that instead of using the suave shampoo I bought today to remove any cones left in my hair.

-A few days before I did the Baking Soda, I put a bunch of diluted ACV in my hair and let it sit for a while, rinsed it out and my hair had so much curl and volume and it was SO soft. If I had added product after, I think that would have been the best my hair had ever looked. What does that say about my hair, as in what should I read from that?

-If I should use the Suave first, would it be okay for me to do the baking soda/ ACV after I do that?

-Then should I co wash w/ the kiwi lime conditioner or should I wait until the next day to start co-washing?

Is the Condition 3-in-1 mousse a good CG product?

I have tons of products under my sink I haven't went through yet, this morning I bought Herbal Essence Totally Twisted gel and mousse.

So are any of these products one I should try today? If so and you were me, which one would you use? If none, what drugstore product would you recommend I get instead?

I also have short bangs that I straighten and at this point, still like that look on me, do you think that's something that I can continue pretty easily? It's one of the things that have been hold me back from going back to CG sooner.

I'm working really hard to understand the ingredients but that is probably the most difficult part for me even though I can look and understand product labels more than most people out there (excluding this site, lol)

Thank you so much for any thoughts, advice, opinions and answers! I hope I did this right, I was doing as much research as I could on my own but really couldn't find answer to these very specific questions so I thought now would be the time to start my own thread. Thanks again!

Corrina777 · 01-25-2012, 03:28 PM

I'll answer what I can and defer to others on things I can't...

Quote:

Originally Posted by gjj

I tried Curly Girl so long ago that I don't even really remember how long I did it or what I did. I couldn't even find my account on this site even though I am quite sure I had one before! I am sorry this post is long, I tried to learn everything I could on my own, then ask any left over questions all together in one post rather than just doing a 'HELP! WHERE TO START!' post.

I have been using a sulfate free shampoo- Freeman Pure Color Fresh Curl Shampoo- (until I'd feel I needed sulfates sometimes & I would use Curlfriends Clarifying shampoo which I saw last night had at least 1 cone it in so it didn't work for clarifying so I bought a cheap btl of Sauve to clarify with one last time today), Redken All Soft Heavy Cream as my conditioner and Condition 3 in 1 maximum hold mousse.

My hair hasn't been terrible but not as great as I think it could be either.

I did a porosity test and my hair just didn't sink so that makes me believe my hair is healthy, it's medium in texture and I would guess at this point about a 3a but closer to a 3b with out getting the curls I know I have!

I've been researching so much and trying to buy products to start, drugstore only at this point.

My questions are:

-If my hair is healthy (according to the porosity test), I should stay away from proteins from what I've read, which means that the Garnier Fortifying Triple Nutrition Conditioner I purchased this morning is not what I should use as my rinse out? From what I understand, it's usually people with coarse hair that should limit protein. Protein can be great for boosting curl definition. I just always make sure to follow protein with a deep conditioner to keep my hair from feeling dry.

-Does a baking soda wash remove silicones? I really liked how my hair looked when I did that with an ACV rinse and wondered if I could do that instead of using the suave shampoo I bought today to remove any cones left in my hair. I do not believe that baking soda will removes cones; however, most sulfate-free shampoos do contain cleansers that can. One of the most common to look for is coco betaine.

-A few days before I did the Baking Soda, I put a bunch of diluted ACV in my hair and let it sit for a while, rinsed it out and my hair had so much curl and volume and it was SO soft. If I had added product after, I think that would have been the best my hair had ever looked. What does that say about my hair, as in what should I read from that? I have to defer on this, but I think it might mean you had build-up

-If I should use the Suave first, would it be okay for me to do the baking soda/ ACV after I do that? I don't know that there's a rule against it, but baking soda and ACV can also be damaging to hair if used too frequently or at high concentrations, so I would personally be wary or using in combination with a sulfate shampoo

-Then should I co wash w/ the kiwi lime conditioner or should I wait until the next day to start co-washing? I think you would benefit the most by doing a good deep conditioner
Is the Condition 3-in-1 mousse a good CG product? I will let someone else answer, as I'm not familiar with the ingredients

I have tons of products under my sink I haven't went through yet, this morning I bought Herbal Essence Totally Twisted gel and mousse.

So are any of these products one I should try today? If so and you were me, which one would you use? If none, what drugstore product would you recommend I get instead? I found that starting CG brought out my inner PJ. I've never tried the HETT gel, but have heard good things about it (I got hooked on LA Looks for drugstore gels). I do have the mousse and found that I liked it better as a 2nd day hair styler rather than using it on just washed hair

I also have short bangs that I straighten and at this point, still like that look on me, do you think that's something that I can continue pretty easily? It's one of the things that have been hold me back from going back to CG sooner. I don't see why not.

I'm working really hard to understand the ingredients but that is probably the most difficult part for me even though I can look and understand product labels more than most people out there (excluding this site, lol) Cones are anything that end in -cone, -cane or -xane, but if the name starts with PPG or PEG it's water soluble. The cleansers and sulfates cane be a little trickier. There's a link in a few of the threads that references good cleansers vs bad cleansers.

Thank you so much for any thoughts, advice, opinions and answers! I hope I did this right, I was doing as much research as I could on my own but really couldn't find answer to these very specific questions so I thought now would be the time to start my own thread. Thanks again!

gjj · 01-25-2012, 04:12 PM

Thank you so much for all of your answers. I will wait on the ACV and give the things I bought a try! I will try and research some more on items you were not sure of. I sincerely appreciate that you to the time to reply in the way that you did!

Corrina777 · 01-25-2012, 04:16 PM

We've all been there- for me it was only a couple months ago. And I'm still learning, too.

Lucky Charm · 01-25-2012, 04:39 PM

Corrina gave great advice! I just wanted to edit slightly and say that silicone ingredients end in -cone, -xane, or -conol

gjj · 01-25-2012, 05:37 PM

thanks

CurlyFireHorse · 01-25-2012, 05:57 PM

I have no advice regarding specific products, but I suggest that you keep a hair diary for a while. Write down exactly what you used, how you used it and how your hair looked. Also, only change one product at a time. HTH.

rainboe · 01-25-2012, 06:23 PM

About protein, some people like having it in their products and some don't. As far as I've read, it usually depends on how thick you hair strands are and how damaged your hair is. Like, I have fine hair and it responds well to protein in my stylers/conditioners. Fine hair usually reacts well to protein, normal hair is iffy, and course hair can react badly. But, everyone's hair is different. If it's just a little protein, like in a hair gel or conditioner, than you don't have to follow it with a deep treatment. If it's an actual protein treatment, where you're just loading your hair with a protein-rich solution, than you do. I would just try the Garnier conditioner to see.

I don't think Condition 3-in-1 mousse is CG. It looks like it has a non-water-soluable silicone. Is this the right thing?

Condition*3-in-1 Maximum Hold Mousse | Walgreens
Ingredients:
Water , Hydrofluorocarbon 152A , Isobutane , Polyquaternium-11 , Polyquaternium-4 , Ethylhexyl Methoxycinnamate , Panthenol , PEG-6 Cocamide , Fragrance , Sodium Cocoyl Isethionate , Dimethicone Copolyol , DMDM Hydantoin , Methylparaben

Geek_Chic · 01-25-2012, 06:49 PM

See the bolded parts below. I removed some questions I had no input on, expanded on some of what Corrina said, and added some answers she didn't have.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gjj

<snip>
My questions are:

-If my hair is healthy (according to the porosity test), I should stay away from proteins from what I've read, which means that the Garnier Fortifying Triple Nutrition Conditioner I purchased this morning is not what I should use as my rinse out? - I use that conditioner as my rinse out, and as far as I know there aren't any proteins in it. It's chock-full of moisturizers. If your hair is dry, it's fantastic. Hair with medium texture and porosity is generally healthy, but that doesn't mean it never needs protein. This link should help, and you might also check here (mostly a texture discussion, but there are recommendations on how often to use protein on normal porosity hair).

-A few days before I did the Baking Soda, I put a bunch of diluted ACV in my hair and let it sit for a while, rinsed it out and my hair had so much curl and volume and it was SO soft. If I had added product after, I think that would have been the best my hair had ever looked. What does that say about my hair, as in what should I read from that? - If you have hard water, it was probably mineral scale. I do, and need an ACV rinse every week or 2. It could also have been some product buildup.

-If I should use the Suave first, would it be okay for me to do the baking soda/ ACV after I do that? - If you use the Suave shampoo first, your hair will probably be squeaky clean, and you likely don't need to do baking soda or ACV. Save the baking soda /ACV for later if/when you get some buildup.

-Then should I co wash w/ the kiwi lime conditioner or should I wait until the next day to start co-washing? - You can cowash directly after your last sulfate shampoo. No need to wait till the next day. Especially after a sulfate shampoo, you'll want to follow your Kiwi Lime (light conditioner) cowash with a rinse out conditioner (something heavier and more moisturizing), like your Garnier Triple Nutrition conditioner. Leave it on while you do the rest of your shower routine, then rinse. It should do a good job at reversing the dryness from your shampoo.

Is the Condition 3-in-1 mousse a good CG product? - If this is your mousse, it is not CG since it has Dimethicone Copolyol, which is a non-water soluble silicone.

I have tons of products under my sink I haven't went through yet, this morning I bought Herbal Essence Totally Twisted gel and mousse.

So are any of these products one I should try today? If so and you were me, which one would you use? If none, what drugstore product would you recommend I get instead? - Many curlies here like the Totally Twisted gel, and that was my starter CG gel. Over time though, I found it gave me some scalp itch and built up (presumably the water soluble cone). I've since switched to Herbal Essences Set Me Up (harder hold) and like it better. Doesn't mean you shouldn't try it, it may work great for you. I can't speak from personal experience on the mousse since I'm a gel girl, but others seem to like it too and it's CG friendly.

I'm working really hard to understand the ingredients but that is probably the most difficult part for me even though I can look and understand product labels more than most people out there (excluding this site, lol) - Silicones end in -cone, -conol, or-xane. Dimethiconol, for instance. Your Redken All Soft has a couple of them, Dimethicone and Cyclopentasiloxane. Sulfates say so - Ammonium Lauryl Sulfate, Sodium Laureth Sulfate, etc. As for others, there's a big list of ingredients and what they are, here.
</snip>

TammyH · 01-25-2012, 06:55 PM

This is what my experience has been...Don't avoid protein, your hair needs it. How much & what type depends on your hair.

Keep a hair journal. Doesn't have to be fancy, just note what you did & how your hair reacted.

BaSo wash (baking soda) is what I use to clarify. Always always always make sure to end with an ACV rinse. It closes the cuticle & balances tue pH of your hair, so make sure to do it at the end of your routine.

I clarify once a month depending on the buildup I think I have. Which usually isn't a lot.

TammyH · 01-25-2012, 06:58 PM

Oh and check your ingredients. Become familiar with the common cones, humectants, proteins, etc, etc. I've Googled them all till I can't see straight anymore. That's where my journal now helps me.

gjj · 01-25-2012, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CurlyFireHorse

I have no advice regarding specific products, but I suggest that you keep a hair diary for a while. Write down exactly what you used, how you used it and how your hair looked. Also, only change one product at a time. HTH.

Ty! I will do that!

gjj · 01-25-2012, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rainboe

About protein, some people like having it in their products and some don't. As far as I've read, it usually depends on how thick you hair strands are and how damaged your hair is. Like, I have fine hair and it responds well to protein in my stylers/conditioners. Fine hair usually reacts well to protein, normal hair is iffy, and course hair can react badly. But, everyone's hair is different. If it's just a little protein, like in a hair gel or conditioner, than you don't have to follow it with a deep treatment. If it's an actual protein treatment, where you're just loading your hair with a protein-rich solution, than you do. I would just try the Garnier conditioner to see.

I don't think Condition 3-in-1 mousse is CG. It looks like it has a non-water-soluable silicone. Is this the right thing?

Condition*3-in-1 Maximum Hold Mousse | Walgreens
Ingredients:
Water , Hydrofluorocarbon 152A , Isobutane , Polyquaternium-11 , Polyquaternium-4 , Ethylhexyl Methoxycinnamate , Panthenol , PEG-6 Cocamide , Fragrance , Sodium Cocoyl Isethionate , Dimethicone Copolyol , DMDM Hydantoin , Methylparaben

This is the right one, I asked b/c I thought I read one place that it was a water soluble cone but I wasn't sure. I saw it mentioned on here while researching. Thanks so much. Sad that it is not CG friendly, I really love it! lol

gjj · 01-25-2012, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geek_Chic

See the bolded parts below. I removed some questions I had no input on, expanded on some of what Corrina said, and added some answers she didn't have.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gjj

<snip>
My questions are:

-If my hair is healthy (according to the porosity test), I should stay away from proteins from what I've read, which means that the Garnier Fortifying Triple Nutrition Conditioner I purchased this morning is not what I should use as my rinse out? - I use that conditioner as my rinse out, and as far as I know there aren't any proteins in it. It's chock-full of moisturizers. If your hair is dry, it's fantastic. Hair with medium texture and porosity is generally healthy, but that doesn't mean it never needs protein. This link should help, and you might also check here (mostly a texture discussion, but there are recommendations on how often to use protein on normal porosity hair).

-A few days before I did the Baking Soda, I put a bunch of diluted ACV in my hair and let it sit for a while, rinsed it out and my hair had so much curl and volume and it was SO soft. If I had added product after, I think that would have been the best my hair had ever looked. What does that say about my hair, as in what should I read from that? - If you have hard water, it was probably mineral scale. I do, and need an ACV rinse every week or 2. It could also have been some product buildup.

-If I should use the Suave first, would it be okay for me to do the baking soda/ ACV after I do that? - If you use the Suave shampoo first, your hair will probably be squeaky clean, and you likely don't need to do baking soda or ACV. Save the baking soda /ACV for later if/when you get some buildup.

-Then should I co wash w/ the kiwi lime conditioner or should I wait until the next day to start co-washing? - You can cowash directly after your last sulfate shampoo. No need to wait till the next day. Especially after a sulfate shampoo, you'll want to follow your Kiwi Lime (light conditioner) cowash with a rinse out conditioner (something heavier and more moisturizing), like your Garnier Triple Nutrition conditioner. Leave it on while you do the rest of your shower routine, then rinse. It should do a good job at reversing the dryness from your shampoo.

Is the Condition 3-in-1 mousse a good CG product? - If this is your mousse, it is not CG since it has Dimethicone Copolyol, which is a non-water soluble silicone.

I have tons of products under my sink I haven't went through yet, this morning I bought Herbal Essence Totally Twisted gel and mousse.

So are any of these products one I should try today? If so and you were me, which one would you use? If none, what drugstore product would you recommend I get instead? - Many curlies here like the Totally Twisted gel, and that was my starter CG gel. Over time though, I found it gave me some scalp itch and built up (presumably the water soluble cone). I've since switched to Herbal Essences Set Me Up (harder hold) and like it better. Doesn't mean you shouldn't try it, it may work great for you. I can't speak from personal experience on the mousse since I'm a gel girl, but others seem to like it too and it's CG friendly.

I'm working really hard to understand the ingredients but that is probably the most difficult part for me even though I can look and understand product labels more than most people out there (excluding this site, lol) - Silicones end in -cone, -conol, or-xane. Dimethiconol, for instance. Your Redken All Soft has a couple of them, Dimethicone and Cyclopentasiloxane. Sulfates say so - Ammonium Lauryl Sulfate, Sodium Laureth Sulfate, etc. As for others, there's a big list of ingredients and what they are, here.
</snip>

Thanks.

I was wondering if I should do the BS/ACV in place of the suave as my initial clarifying. It seems that the opinion is I should go ahead and use the suave.

I realized that my all soft heavy cream has silicones, thank goodness I am nearing the end of the bottle anyway and can save it for when I do friend's hair ect, lol. I used it until now because it worked better than any conditioner I ever used for detangling- and for a long time- it didn't stop working! lol. I knew if I went CG, I would have to let it go.

Thanks for the info on the mousse, my daughter loves the mousse too so my 8 extra bottles will still be used! hehe. I was always afraid it would get dc'ed so I'd buy it all at my local grocery store, that's the only place that carries it near me.

I don't think we have hard water, we don't have a water softener and I never have any of the issues in my house that I remember from growing up with hard water. I assume that my hair looked amazing from the ACV b/c it got rid of build up from my other products.

I've been reading labels like crazy but wanted to make sure I didn't miss anything.

Thanks so much for more great advice!

gjj · 01-25-2012, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TammyH

This is what my experience has been...Don't avoid protein, your hair needs it. How much & what type depends on your hair.

Keep a hair journal. Doesn't have to be fancy, just note what you did & how your hair reacted.

BaSo wash (baking soda) is what I use to clarify. Always always always make sure to end with an ACV rinse. It closes the cuticle & balances tue pH of your hair, so make sure to do it at the end of your routine.

I clarify once a month depending on the buildup I think I have. Which usually isn't a lot.

Thank you for your input. I watched a video on youtube with a girl explaining texture and porosity ect, did her test and answered the questioned and it didn't seem that I needed protein. If it's something that I shouldn't avoid then I won't worry about it yet.

gjj · 01-25-2012, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geek_Chic

See the bolded parts below. I removed some questions I had no input on, expanded on some of what Corrina said, and added some answers she didn't have.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gjj

<snip>
My questions are:

-If my hair is healthy (according to the porosity test), I should stay away from proteins from what I've read, which means that the Garnier Fortifying Triple Nutrition Conditioner I purchased this morning is not what I should use as my rinse out? - I use that conditioner as my rinse out, and as far as I know there aren't any proteins in it. It's chock-full of moisturizers. If your hair is dry, it's fantastic. Hair with medium texture and porosity is generally healthy, but that doesn't mean it never needs protein. This link should help, and you might also check here (mostly a texture discussion, but there are recommendations on how often to use protein on normal porosity hair).

-A few days before I did the Baking Soda, I put a bunch of diluted ACV in my hair and let it sit for a while, rinsed it out and my hair had so much curl and volume and it was SO soft. If I had added product after, I think that would have been the best my hair had ever looked. What does that say about my hair, as in what should I read from that? - If you have hard water, it was probably mineral scale. I do, and need an ACV rinse every week or 2. It could also have been some product buildup.

-If I should use the Suave first, would it be okay for me to do the baking soda/ ACV after I do that? - If you use the Suave shampoo first, your hair will probably be squeaky clean, and you likely don't need to do baking soda or ACV. Save the baking soda /ACV for later if/when you get some buildup.

-Then should I co wash w/ the kiwi lime conditioner or should I wait until the next day to start co-washing? - You can cowash directly after your last sulfate shampoo. No need to wait till the next day. Especially after a sulfate shampoo, you'll want to follow your Kiwi Lime (light conditioner) cowash with a rinse out conditioner (something heavier and more moisturizing), like your Garnier Triple Nutrition conditioner. Leave it on while you do the rest of your shower routine, then rinse. It should do a good job at reversing the dryness from your shampoo.

Is the Condition 3-in-1 mousse a good CG product? - If this is your mousse, it is not CG since it has Dimethicone Copolyol, which is a non-water soluble silicone.

I have tons of products under my sink I haven't went through yet, this morning I bought Herbal Essence Totally Twisted gel and mousse.

So are any of these products one I should try today? If so and you were me, which one would you use? If none, what drugstore product would you recommend I get instead? - Many curlies here like the Totally Twisted gel, and that was my starter CG gel. Over time though, I found it gave me some scalp itch and built up (presumably the water soluble cone). I've since switched to Herbal Essences Set Me Up (harder hold) and like it better. Doesn't mean you shouldn't try it, it may work great for you. I can't speak from personal experience on the mousse since I'm a gel girl, but others seem to like it too and it's CG friendly.

I'm working really hard to understand the ingredients but that is probably the most difficult part for me even though I can look and understand product labels more than most people out there (excluding this site, lol) - Silicones end in -cone, -conol, or-xane. Dimethiconol, for instance. Your Redken All Soft has a couple of them, Dimethicone and Cyclopentasiloxane. Sulfates say so - Ammonium Lauryl Sulfate, Sodium Laureth Sulfate, etc. As for others, there's a big list of ingredients and what they are, here.
</snip>

Ok, While reading in general, I read in these 2 spots that the cone in the Condition 3-in-1 Mousse is water soluble... if you scroll down to the 'warnings' section, I believe in the 4th bulletin, it lists it: How to Follow the Curly Girl Method for Curly Hair: 15 steps (with pictures) - wikiHow

and the resource was this: http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlre...p-on-silicones

Is this incorrect? ty again!

Geek_Chic · 01-25-2012, 10:27 PM

Sorry, my mistake gjj. Dimethicone copolyol is a silicone, but it's a water soluble one, so your 3 in 1 mousse is CG safe. I should've double checked the handy chart I have bookmarked, before I posted.

gjj · 01-25-2012, 10:46 PM

No problem at all, I really appreciate all the input. I was just researching more, I came across that totally by accident!

I think I will still try some gel as well. I just don't want crunch!

This mousse is pretty amazing stuff though. I found out about it b/c I stopped a girl in the middle of Marshall's to ask her what she used b/c her curls were that beautiful- I mean amazing- I've only ever did that one other time and that girl told me she finger curled each curl. I def don't have that kind of time! lol.

Geek_Chic · 01-25-2012, 11:53 PM

Yay for product recommendations that work.

I may have to try that one out myself.

If you don't like the crunch from gels, wait till your hair dries and scrunch it out (SOTC). If you don't touch while it dries, the gel forms a hard cast on the hair that helps prevent frizz and flyaways. After SOTC, you should get soft curls with hold. Totally Twisted gel is billed as a medium hold, and I got minimal crunch with it. Shouldn't be any problem for you to scrunch out.

rbb · 01-26-2012, 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CurlyFireHorse

I have no advice regarding specific products, but I suggest that you keep a hair diary for a while. Write down exactly what you used, how you used it and how your hair looked. Also, only change one product at a time. HTH.

the other thing i would add to this is, if you are keeping a journal (great idea) you also need to pay attention to the dew points!!! this tells you whether the air is trying to grab moisture from your hair, low dew points, or whether it is putting too much moisture in your hair, high dew points. what we use can make a difference!! for example, my summer hg (mid to high dew points) is cj aloe fix gel, i don't even use a leave in. cannot use it once the dew points drop.
there are articles on dew points, it is different from humidity. the dew point is never higher than the temp. hair loves mid dew points 40 - 60.

a good article:
naturallycurly.com/curlreading/ingredients/humidity-humectants-and-the-dew-point

and, here is a weather website that gives dew points along with temps for different times of the day. you just put in your zip code: weather underground.

the other thing is to be aware of not only the dew points outside, but if you are spending your day inside, is the air very dry??

sounds confusing but it really isn't. you don't even need to understand dew points, just what they are for that day!! if glycerin is an ingredient high on the list, it should be avoided in low dew points. glycerin takes moisture from where it can get it -- in mid to high dew points, from the air, in low dew points from our hair!!